full

full
Published on:

31st Jan 2022

Your Beliefs About Money

The reason business exists is to provide a living while adding value to people's lives, and money is the grease that makes that wheel go 'round. So before we can talk about business, we need to talk about money, how we relate to it, and understand that our beliefs about money will affect our ability to run profitable businesses that grow and add value, not only to the lives of our customers but to our lives, as well.

So what can we learn from our beliefs, and how can we change or build them so we can have a healthy relationship with money?

Transcript
Matt Stagliano:

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

Matt Stagliano:

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

Matt Stagliano:

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

Matt Stagliano:

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

Matt Stagliano:

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

Matt Stagliano:

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

Matt Stagliano:

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

Matt Stagliano:

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

Matt Stagliano:

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

Matt Stagliano:

us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.

Nicole York:

Good morning, everybody. I see we've got

Nicole York:

friends with us already this morning MJ and Carolyn Michelle

Nicole York:

Dawn Robert and Lindsey Arias here as well welcome everybody

Nicole York:

to morning walk and talk. I hope you had a fantastic weekend. And

Nicole York:

that you got a little bit of rest and relaxation. And you are

Nicole York:

ready to come back this Monday morning, do a little bit more

Nicole York:

introspection and some self work. And I'm actually pretty

Nicole York:

excited about what we're going to be tackling for the rest of

Nicole York:

this month. I'm including December. And I say this month,

Nicole York:

because it's a Monday, and who wants to end the month, like mid

Nicole York:

week. So we're actually going to be really diving into the

Nicole York:

business side of art this month. So for the next month, we're

Nicole York:

going to be talking about building our businesses and and

Nicole York:

that not only the practical aspects of that, but the

Nicole York:

philosophical aspects of that as well, making sure that what we

Nicole York:

build is truly in alignment with the kind of life that we want to

Nicole York:

live. I think often when we're using the examples of what other

Nicole York:

people do to grow their businesses and the success that

Nicole York:

they find, and we start to take those and implement them for

Nicole York:

ourselves, we do so with the hope that they will bring us

Nicole York:

success, and not necessarily with the hope that they will

Nicole York:

bring us a day to day life that we can really enjoy, and, and

Nicole York:

feel fulfilled for having lived. So we're gonna look at the

Nicole York:

philosophical side of that, how we look at how we build those

Nicole York:

businesses so that not only are they successful, but also

Nicole York:

they're fulfilling to partake in. But then we'll also look at

Nicole York:

a lot of the practical aspects of business. That way, when we

Nicole York:

start this new year, as artists and business people, we can

Nicole York:

maybe take a look at what we've built, see if we need to do any

Nicole York:

restructuring to make things either more profitable, or more

Nicole York:

enjoyable, or a better experience for our customer or

Nicole York:

alter things if we need to, to change the build of what we've

Nicole York:

got. So that it's more in alignment with the kind of life

Nicole York:

that we want to live and who we see ourselves as, as business

Nicole York:

people. So we'll be doing that as well. And I think probably

Nicole York:

the best place for us to begin is to talk about money. And I

Nicole York:

know that seems like an interesting place to start. But

Nicole York:

when we've got a lot of money blocks going on, or other issues

Nicole York:

around money that make it difficult for us to accept to

Nicole York:

ask for, even to grow or to, to accept a wealth, it can be

Nicole York:

really, really hard to run a successful business because it's

Nicole York:

based around money. A business doesn't exist, if there's not

Nicole York:

transactions happening there. So today's conversation and

Nicole York:

probably tomorrow as well, we're going to be talking about money,

Nicole York:

we're going to be talking about how we accept it, what we have

Nicole York:

to look at within ourselves to see if we have these blocks that

Nicole York:

are stopping us from feeling comfortable selling or making

Nicole York:

these business transactions or even growing our business to the

Nicole York:

point where it is the kind of business that can sustain us

Nicole York:

long term and make our life a better life to live. So that's

Nicole York:

going to be the conversation for the next few days. And then we

Nicole York:

will launch into the rest of business. And before we get

Nicole York:

started, just want to let everybody know, we finally have

Nicole York:

finished our Cyber Monday release. For the artists forage.

Nicole York:

I've been talking during the last week about the fact that

Nicole York:

the amazing mentors here at the artist forage have gotten

Nicole York:

together and offered to do mentor sessions for our folks,

Nicole York:

our artists forge people at a significantly discounted rate

Nicole York:

for what they generally offer through their own services and

Nicole York:

also that all of them have agreed to donate what they make

Nicole York:

to the artists forge coffers so we can start building up more

Nicole York:

resources for our community. So if you head to the artists forge

Nicole York:

comm which I'm going to add up to the link section today, if

Nicole York:

you head there you will see that there are five mentor sessions

Nicole York:

per founder of the artist Forge. And so each of us are kind of

Nicole York:

tackling different topics, from business, to audio video stuff

Nicole York:

to production and storytelling. So you can go have a look, if

Nicole York:

you've been wanting to get a chance to speak alone with some

Nicole York:

of our mentors just to grow and work on those areas. This is

Nicole York:

your chance there are only five per mentor, because obviously,

Nicole York:

with everybody donating these services, we have to make sure

Nicole York:

we respect their time. So it is open, you can go have a look.

Nicole York:

And hopefully, if that's something you want to do, you'll

Nicole York:

get it on that and take advantage. Alright, y'all. So

Nicole York:

let's begin what we're looking at today. Money, how do we deal

Nicole York:

with it? Why is it such a hard subject to talk about? Why do we

Nicole York:

have so many hurdles when it comes to asking for money for

Nicole York:

services? How much is the right amount of money? How much is too

Nicole York:

much? When are we being greedy? Is there such a thing, as as

Nicole York:

being paid too much money for your services, there's so much

Nicole York:

to talk about here. And it's such an integral part of our

Nicole York:

experience in the society that we live in needing it, to pay

Nicole York:

our bills, and to put food in our mouths, and to enjoy any of

Nicole York:

the extra curricular things that we like, it can be such a big

Nicole York:

topic to tackle. And I know that we have some folks in this group

Nicole York:

that are already really deep thinkers about how we deal with

Nicole York:

money, particularly as business people. So I'm definitely going

Nicole York:

to be leading on them to help drive this conversation today.

Nicole York:

But I want to begin just by defining the problem. So for my

Nicole York:

mods this morning, what do you think it is about money that

Nicole York:

makes it so difficult for us to quantify how we feel about it

Nicole York:

and how we deal with it. And particularly, it seems difficult

Nicole York:

for us as artists, with a level that doesn't seem to apply to

Nicole York:

other types of business where it seems like the rates can be much

Nicole York:

easier to set and accept. But us as artists, it seems to have a

Nicole York:

whole other layer of complexity and difficulty with how we deal

Nicole York:

with money. And it makes it difficult for us to be really

Nicole York:

kind of strong, confident business people who are earning

Nicole York:

enough that we are living a life that is comfortable and happy.

Nicole York:

So why do you think that is? Why is it such a struggle to deal

Nicole York:

with money guys?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Because typically, with artists

Cat Ford-Coates:

especially, we have a tendency to attach our own personal worth

Cat Ford-Coates:

to the value that we're placing on our work, as opposed to

Cat Ford-Coates:

treating the value of our work as separate from

Unknown:

ourselves.

Nicole York:

Yeah, I think I mean, I think you're absolutely

Nicole York:

right, at least in my experience, particularly when I

Nicole York:

was beginning. I know that that was an accidental correlation

Nicole York:

that was made. And what I mean by that is, as we're becoming

Nicole York:

business people, a lot of the advice that we get is well

Nicole York:

meaning but I think phrased wrongly, that kind of reinforces

Nicole York:

this idea that our worth is tied to our art. And it's that whole

Nicole York:

charge what you're worth. And then, of course, that obviously

Nicole York:

makes that correlation, it kind of reinforces that idea. But

Nicole York:

then also, as artists being able to create such a big part of

Nicole York:

that comes from these internal places. But doesn't seem to be

Nicole York:

there always in other forms of work. When I was, you know, when

Nicole York:

I was in the military as a medic, I did not necessarily

Nicole York:

have to look inward and deal with my internal issues in order

Nicole York:

to treat a wound. I knew what steps needed to be taken. And of

Nicole York:

course, there's empathy there for the person that you're

Nicole York:

treating. But that's a whole different experience. So

Nicole York:

certainly, there's something there. And being an artist and

Nicole York:

the connection that we have to our work that makes the idea of

Nicole York:

of taking money for it. And the way that those values are tied

Nicole York:

together really difficult. So I think that's definitely one of

Nicole York:

those issues that we deal with. Anybody else have any insight

Nicole York:

into why money is such a tricky place for us to deal as artists

Nicole York:

and business?

Bassam Sabbagh:

Well, I think among along the line of what

Bassam Sabbagh:

gets said that flipping it around, I think that what's

Bassam Sabbagh:

difficult is the fact that we need to look at it from the the

Bassam Sabbagh:

when you talk about the value of what we do, we need to look at

Bassam Sabbagh:

it from the client's point of view. And that's difficult to

Bassam Sabbagh:

do, because not everybody values things in the same way. So when

Bassam Sabbagh:

you break down the services that we offer, and the value that we

Bassam Sabbagh:

add, you know, you can easily say, like, I think Carol was

Bassam Sabbagh:

saying last week, well, my friends and family find it too

Bassam Sabbagh:

expensive, right? But those are not your ideal client. But, but

Bassam Sabbagh:

even finding the ideal client, there's, there's different value

Bassam Sabbagh:

types that you offer that may or may not be attractive to

Bassam Sabbagh:

different clients, and how do you find that combination of

Bassam Sabbagh:

services or value that you offer, but also be able to

Bassam Sabbagh:

identify clients that would appreciate it so. So we kind of

Bassam Sabbagh:

get stuck in that I understand my value, I can see how other

Bassam Sabbagh:

people can value it. But how do I? How do I put it all in an

Bassam Sabbagh:

equation where I actually find those people, and we kind of

Bassam Sabbagh:

tend to drift back to the people around us. And people we know

Bassam Sabbagh:

and assume that they're gonna value what we do, I don't know

Bassam Sabbagh:

if I'm making any sense. It's just kind of a circle of, of

Bassam Sabbagh:

trying to find the right equation between how I value

Bassam Sabbagh:

myself what value is to my clients? And where do I find my

Bassam Sabbagh:

clients? And when we don't complete that equation, we're

Bassam Sabbagh:

kind of going around in circles. Does that make any sense?

Nicole York:

Yeah, for sure. And it sounds like kind of the

Nicole York:

beginning part of that is, whatever attitudes, not only we

Nicole York:

grew up with, you know, the environment that we grew up in,

Nicole York:

and what those attitudes were about money, but then also, our

Nicole York:

friends and family, our social circles, and how they view money

Nicole York:

and what their kind of relative amount of wealth is, colors, our

Nicole York:

perception of how much other people have, or how they value

Nicole York:

money and how they're willing to spend it. And I know certainly,

Nicole York:

for me growing up, we did not have very much money. And so the

Nicole York:

attitude generally was only get what you can afford, even if

Nicole York:

it's, you know, a broken kind of a thing, or you're getting it

Nicole York:

from Goodwill, or it's just really cheap, and it was gonna

Nicole York:

break a million times. But still, my parents could never

Nicole York:

justify spending that additional amount on something that was

Nicole York:

quality, simply because either it would be taking from

Nicole York:

something else, or it just seemed like a waste when you

Nicole York:

could get something that was good enough now for cheaper. And

Nicole York:

that was a really difficult habit for me to break growing

Nicole York:

up. Once I started having my own money and spending it, it was

Nicole York:

really difficult to convince myself that certain things were

Nicole York:

worth that extra price tag for the quality and the longevity.

Nicole York:

And so those opinions and those beliefs really colored the way

Nicole York:

that I approached money and dealt with money for a long

Nicole York:

time. So we have kind of the the biases, the beliefs that we grew

Nicole York:

up around. And then we have our social circles. And the people

Nicole York:

that we know, obviously greatly influence how we see money, its

Nicole York:

value and what it can be spent on. And if our friends and

Nicole York:

family are all within a certain demographic, where money is

Nicole York:

concerned, the idea that we could potentially be asking for

Nicole York:

more than that, or with that we could be looking at a different

Nicole York:

demographic, based on how much they earn or their value as our

Nicole York:

ideal customer makes it difficult to believe that that's

Nicole York:

possible, because nobody that we know, behaves that way with

Nicole York:

money. So we have kind of those two things beginning to hold us

Nicole York:

back. And then the hurdle comes in the fact that we don't know

Nicole York:

then how to make those practical decisions that will bring us out

Nicole York:

of that spot. So that we can find those ideal clients who

Nicole York:

value what we do in a way that allows us to live a life that

Nicole York:

we're where we're comfortable, and we have a business that's

Nicole York:

prospering. So does that seem like it kind of fits in with

Nicole York:

what?

Unknown:

Well, yes, the

Bassam Sabbagh:

difficulty we have in stepping out of that,

Bassam Sabbagh:

that, that that life oh, sorry, that how we've grown up and how

Bassam Sabbagh:

we've how you know, our beliefs and how we see things and being

Bassam Sabbagh:

able to step out of it, and see it from a different perspective.

Bassam Sabbagh:

And we tend to have misconceptions and assumptions

Bassam Sabbagh:

about you know, who values are or services, you know, when

Bassam Sabbagh:

somebody says, well, I need to find rich people because they

Bassam Sabbagh:

can afford my services. Well, you know, most rich people may

Bassam Sabbagh:

not value what you what you sell. So it's about it's about

Bassam Sabbagh:

looking at our assumptions and saying, are we approaching this

Bassam Sabbagh:

in the proper way are we making assumptions that they may not

Bassam Sabbagh:

be, may not be true, how do we open up our mind to, to, you

Bassam Sabbagh:

know, what is value and and, you know, who values what and why?

Bassam Sabbagh:

What kind of industry What behaviors what mindsets? Do they

Bassam Sabbagh:

need to have as as potential clients for? Do they have as

Bassam Sabbagh:

potential clients that would value? So it's really stepping

Bassam Sabbagh:

out of those and how to take that. You know, that that's, I

Bassam Sabbagh:

guess step is the difficult part. I mean, what we're

Bassam Sabbagh:

describing is absolutely true. But unless you step out of it,

Bassam Sabbagh:

it's hard to find your your way. Yeah, I'm sure. The school we'll

Bassam Sabbagh:

get to talk about how to step out of that and how to see

Bassam Sabbagh:

things differently.

Nicole York:

We absolutely well, yeah, 100%. And I think it's

Nicole York:

interesting, too, that you mentioned the fact that

Nicole York:

oftentimes, we will make the assumption that because somebody

Nicole York:

has the money, they must naturally be the person that we

Nicole York:

want to target, because they're the ones who have that

Nicole York:

discretional income or whatever, you know, they just the money is

Nicole York:

there, so then they could potentially use it. But that's

Nicole York:

no guarantor, that person values what we do in a way that would

Nicole York:

allow them to spend that kind of money, which is why those

Nicole York:

assumptions can be so dangerous. I have worked with people who

Nicole York:

were not in high income brackets, but valued the service

Nicole York:

and the product so much that they were willing to spend far

Nicole York:

more than what I would have made the assumption, you know,

Nicole York:

willing to go on a payment plan or whatever, to really invest in

Nicole York:

these in the products that they thought were worthwhile, not

Nicole York:

because they had a whole lot of discretionary income, but

Nicole York:

because they just believed it was worth it. So those

Nicole York:

assumptions can really kill our profitability can really just

Nicole York:

continue to play into those unhealthy mindsets around money

Nicole York:

around value and around who is willing to use money for what.

Nicole York:

So we've covered a lot of ground already kind of starting to

Nicole York:

define this problem, about how we look at money and how we deal

Nicole York:

with it. And I want to add to that, that we really don't get a

Nicole York:

lot of education, about money. I didn't realize until I was an

Nicole York:

adult, that so many of the things I thought and believed

Nicole York:

about, not you know, my biases, or, or my beliefs about money

Nicole York:

itself, and what kind of person it made you to have or not have

Nicole York:

money, but actually my understanding of money itself,

Nicole York:

like the economic value of money and how it is used, that was not

Nicole York:

the kind of education we ever got, I never, in fact, heard

Nicole York:

anybody say that debt was a good thing until I was listening to

Nicole York:

really extremely rich people talk about using debt in order

Nicole York:

to acquire physical assets that would continue to gain value.

Nicole York:

There's just there's so much there that we don't get is not

Nicole York:

part of our education. And so learning, learning those things,

Nicole York:

you never learn, at least we didn't in high school, what

Nicole York:

capital gains were like, there's just so much education around

Nicole York:

money that we don't have, it can really feel like we are trying

Nicole York:

to tackle calculus with, you know, third grade math skills.

Nicole York:

So, I mean, even that can become a really huge issue when we

Nicole York:

start looking at all of the different aspects that go into

Nicole York:

running a business, like how much we actually can pay

Nicole York:

ourselves from, what our business income is, and how much

Nicole York:

we have set aside for our taxes. And do we back tax? Or do we tax

Nicole York:

up front? Like there's all of these other questions that we

Nicole York:

have to answer that can make dealing the practical aspects of

Nicole York:

dealing with money really difficult. But before we start

Nicole York:

getting into actually tackling some of these issues, I want to

Nicole York:

make sure that we are getting as much of the problem out in the

Nicole York:

open as possible. So are there any other issues you think that

Nicole York:

we deal with around money, any other blocks we might have, that

Nicole York:

we should make sure we identify before we start talking about

Nicole York:

some of the ways that we can overcome them?

Bassam Sabbagh:

Nicole, sorry, I just want to follow up my before

Bassam Sabbagh:

we go on just a quick example, we were talking about our

Bassam Sabbagh:

assumptions. I just as a practical example, this past

Bassam Sabbagh:

week, I had three consultations for boudoir photoshoots. I

Bassam Sabbagh:

booked two of the three, I had one who was a administrative

Bassam Sabbagh:

assistant in a small company. I had one one woman who is a

Bassam Sabbagh:

daycare worker, and I had another one who's a senior

Bassam Sabbagh:

director in a multinational running procurement

Bassam Sabbagh:

organization. Okay. And guess which two I booked I booked the

Bassam Sabbagh:

Secretary and the the daycare worker and the other one find me

Bassam Sabbagh:

too expensive. So just to give you an example of what we were

Bassam Sabbagh:

talking about earlier, I'll show

Nicole York:

now that's a great example. But some and I think

Nicole York:

you know, if you were to throw those out with no other

Nicole York:

qualifications, you know, most people would would Look at how

Nicole York:

much you charge and make the assumption well, it must be, you

Nicole York:

know, the person in the higher tax bracket that probably is

Nicole York:

kind of pay when that's not the case, some times, the value just

Nicole York:

isn't there, depending on how we feel about money. So really

Nicole York:

important for us to recognize, alright, guys, we've defined

Nicole York:

quite a few things.

Bekka Bjorke:

Oh, I got one, I think Catan was on brought up

Bekka Bjorke:

excellent points. And just kind of going off that assumption and

Bekka Bjorke:

friends and family topic a little bit. I think starting

Bekka Bjorke:

small can cause a lot of later problems as our business grows.

Bekka Bjorke:

And I know this was a problem for me. When I think my very

Bekka Bjorke:

first photo sessions when I was maybe, like, 16 years old, I

Bekka Bjorke:

charge the whole $75. And I thought that was a lot of money.

Bekka Bjorke:

Because you know, in my tiny sphere of experience, that was a

Bekka Bjorke:

lot of money kind of, and that made it so much harder to raise

Bekka Bjorke:

my prices. And I've seen this struggle repeatedly with other

Bekka Bjorke:

artists, especially with photographers, but illustrators,

Bekka Bjorke:

everyone to where you start at the small price, because you

Bekka Bjorke:

attach your own value to that and you worry that people aren't

Bekka Bjorke:

going to want to buy it or they're not going to like you if

Bekka Bjorke:

you tell them a higher price, or you think that it's not worth

Bekka Bjorke:

more. And then when it comes to the point where you need to be

Bekka Bjorke:

charging more, it becomes so much harder, because you've

Bekka Bjorke:

created these expectations for yourself and for the people who

Bekka Bjorke:

are already working with you. So I think now with much more

Bekka Bjorke:

experience, like I think everyone needs to do a lot more

Bekka Bjorke:

research into their market and start a lot higher than where

Bekka Bjorke:

most of us actually do start our pricing.

Nicole York:

Oh, yeah, you just you just mentioned what kind of

Nicole York:

we're really going to be looking at when we start to get into the

Nicole York:

practical aspect of this, because that is one of the

Nicole York:

hardest struggles and causes, I think it really makes your

Nicole York:

growth become not stagnant. But it definitely hampers your

Nicole York:

growth as a business person when you have to account for slowly

Nicole York:

making these changes so that you don't lose your current clients,

Nicole York:

and lose all of your income before you're able to charge

Nicole York:

more. So I think you're right, which is why it's so important

Nicole York:

for us to tackle these questions, right. Now, before we

Nicole York:

get into that.

Nicole York:

So, alright, we've looked at several different issues that we

Nicole York:

face as artists and business people, when it comes to trying

Nicole York:

to make a living off of our art, trying to turn our work into a

Nicole York:

business that can sustain us and help us grow. And that begins,

Nicole York:

of course, with our biases, and our beliefs about art, or sorry

Nicole York:

about money, which is where we're gonna start today. So we

Nicole York:

are going to begin this conversation about money with

Nicole York:

really trying to expose some of the unhealthy beliefs that we

Nicole York:

have. And hopefully, those of us who are up on the panel today

Nicole York:

will share some of the beliefs that you have, if you're in the

Nicole York:

audience. And for those of us who are live today, if you

Nicole York:

happen to have a belief or a bias or a block around money

Nicole York:

that doesn't get mentioned, but you feel like it's important

Nicole York:

enough to share, make sure that you raise your hand because the

Nicole York:

more we can expose these things, and the more people can kind of

Nicole York:

hear the fact that number one, they're not alone. Number two

Nicole York:

that other people have had these issues and overcome them, then

Nicole York:

the better and the healthier, our industry is going to be

Nicole York:

overall. So I will start I'm hoping the other moderators will

Nicole York:

share theirs as well with exposing some of the beliefs

Nicole York:

that I grew up with around money. But one of them was if

Nicole York:

you were rich, or if you had a lot of money, you must be a bad

Nicole York:

person. Like you must be selfish, you must be greedy,

Nicole York:

because you had money that the rest of us just couldn't get our

Nicole York:

hands on, even though we worked really hard. And you could do

Nicole York:

things like take vacations while everybody else was just trying

Nicole York:

to feed themselves or pay their rent. And so you probably like

Nicole York:

stepped on people on your way to the top, you probably, you know

Nicole York:

spent your money in places that were ludicrous. And we could not

Nicole York:

justify you being a good person if you had a lot of money. And

Nicole York:

unfortunately, this was really prominent in the circles that I

Nicole York:

grew up in, in the people that I grew up around, it was not the

Nicole York:

kind of thing that everybody always talked about openly. It

Nicole York:

was one of those weird kind of subliminal, just below the

Nicole York:

surface assumptions that everybody had. And you could

Nicole York:

really see it manifested in the way that people behaved. And the

Nicole York:

way that we talked about people, like, you know, oh, that's only

Nicole York:

for rich people, or they would have things and we would hate on

Nicole York:

them for it. We made the assumption that the kids at

Nicole York:

school who got great things because their parents had money.

Nicole York:

We're probably jerks, like they were probably brats or whatever.

Nicole York:

And they were spoiled, like all of these assumptions that we had

Nicole York:

about people who had money that just manifested in the way that

Nicole York:

Everyone behaved. It was almost like we all agreed on it, even

Nicole York:

though we never openly said, Hey, guys, I believe rich people

Nicole York:

are probably bad people. It just, everybody just thought

Nicole York:

that. So that was one of the unhealthy beliefs that I grew up

Nicole York:

with. And if I, as a kid looked at my kids, now, I probably

Nicole York:

would think the same thing about them, I probably would look at

Nicole York:

them and think they have these things. Or, you know, I remember

Nicole York:

when I was in middle school, it was a Jansport backpack, like

Nicole York:

that was the cool backpack that everybody had. And those of us

Nicole York:

who didn't, and we had like knockoff brands, from some crap

Nicole York:

store. When we read always, I felt that I felt like when I was

Nicole York:

walking through the halls, I felt like it was a weird scarlet

Nicole York:

letter that I was carrying around, that was telling

Nicole York:

everybody that I was poor. And just, those experiences of those

Nicole York:

things get carried with you. And it's not until something exposes

Nicole York:

that as a lie, that you can actually deal with that thought

Nicole York:

head on and recognize the fact that the things that you kind of

Nicole York:

inherently believed weren't necessarily true. They were just

Nicole York:

the common experience, and a way to justify the fact that we

Nicole York:

weren't in a place to have those things. So for me, that was the

Nicole York:

big block the big hurdle, people who have money must be bad. That

Nicole York:

was one of the things that I grew up with. What about you

Nicole York:

guys, we're there anything that any kind of money blocks or

Nicole York:

attitudes about money that you grew up around that colored the

Nicole York:

way that you thought about money, that then made it

Nicole York:

difficult to be able to ask for, or charge the right prices, as

Nicole York:

you started moving into.

Unknown:

I kind of had a weird meeting of worlds.

Bekka Bjorke:

When in my growing up with money, both my parents

Bekka Bjorke:

were artists, they still are artists, and my dad worked in

Bekka Bjorke:

movie studios, and my mom played, you know, bar gigs for

Bekka Bjorke:

50 bucks, couple 100 bucks. And I just I feel like it gave me

Bekka Bjorke:

this kind of weird concept of my for my mom, especially about

Bekka Bjorke:

like, what to charge and also how to spend my money. And one

Bekka Bjorke:

thing like when creating my own price, because my dad, I guess I

Bekka Bjorke:

didn't really have any understanding of his finances

Bekka Bjorke:

until I was much older, I had no idea. If we had money, we did.

Bekka Bjorke:

But I didn't realize that till later. But my mom, my mom is

Bekka Bjorke:

always, you know, not had very much. And so it was always like

Bekka Bjorke:

garage sales and thrift stores and getting really excited about

Bekka Bjorke:

certain deals, and she was very open about talking about not

Bekka Bjorke:

being able to afford things when she couldn't. And so how I shop

Bekka Bjorke:

still, I still get really excited about finding a really

Bekka Bjorke:

good deal. And I do a lot of research and try to find the

Bekka Bjorke:

best price on things. And then I've taken that into pricing

Bekka Bjorke:

myself, and considering how other people behave about money.

Bekka Bjorke:

And I always kind of assumed that everyone did that same

Bekka Bjorke:

thing, which is not true. And when then defining, you know how

Bekka Bjorke:

I was going to price myself not realizing that there were people

Bekka Bjorke:

that spent money differently, that not everyone was going to

Bekka Bjorke:

be that super bargain hunter and I needed to appeal to those

Bekka Bjorke:

bargain hunters. Took me a long time to figure that out. Because

Bekka Bjorke:

that was how I was raised. And that's still how I behave about

Bekka Bjorke:

certain things. But now that I'm in a financial position myself,

Bekka Bjorke:

where I can not always do the bargain hunting, where I can be

Bekka Bjorke:

comfortable spending more money, and not worry about it. It's

Bekka Bjorke:

taught me that other people actually do that, too. And maybe

Bekka Bjorke:

I need to be looking for those people, instead of that race to

Bekka Bjorke:

the bottom and trying to find the cheapest price.

Nicole York:

Oh, Becca, that's a big one. And I think you know

Nicole York:

what you're saying about making this assumption that because

Nicole York:

that's the way that you spent money, that must be the way that

Nicole York:

everybody spends their money. That is a really big one that I

Nicole York:

think is difficult for us to get over because those ideas are

Nicole York:

outside of our experience. And so it's difficult for us to put

Nicole York:

ourselves into a place that we have no, there are no markers,

Nicole York:

and there's no compass for us to understand what it looks like to

Nicole York:

stand in that place until we can be there. And so for those of us

Nicole York:

who are using our businesses, I mean, we're trying to bring

Nicole York:

ourselves up in the world, right? We're trying to kind of

Nicole York:

raise our level of income and the quality of our life. And it

Nicole York:

can be really difficult to step up into a space where people

Nicole York:

spend money differently than you spend money if you've never

Nicole York:

experienced it before. So I think that's probably going to

Nicole York:

be a really big one for us to tackle as we have these

Nicole York:

conversations so we can figure out how do we have to change the

Nicole York:

way that we think or what experiences do we need? To have

Nicole York:

an order to help us justify that in our head, because for many of

Nicole York:

us, it won't be, it won't be, well, now I can spend money that

Nicole York:

way. So I understand that other people do for many of us, as

Nicole York:

we're trying to get there, it's going to probably require

Nicole York:

something different of us, in order for us to really stand and

Nicole York:

being able to charge that amount of money, or to price ourselves

Nicole York:

in a way that allows us to get there. So it's gonna be a really

Nicole York:

interesting conversation to have, I think, and hopefully, we

Nicole York:

can also draw a lot on the audience and what their

Nicole York:

experiences have been as business people. So cat, some,

Nicole York:

do you all have any blocks, or any kind of biases or things you

Nicole York:

grew up with around money

Unknown:

that you are? Sorry, go ahead beside them.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Oh, no, just just very quickly, in my case,

Bassam Sabbagh:

the what I grew up with is really conservative parents in

Bassam Sabbagh:

terms of everything, when I say conservative, meaning non non

Bassam Sabbagh:

risk takers. So that's how I grew up and I think influenced

Bassam Sabbagh:

my view on, you know, how I define success, you know, the

Bassam Sabbagh:

thing of like, think big versus think, smallish, I kind of tend

Bassam Sabbagh:

to be also conservative and non risk taking and think smaller

Bassam Sabbagh:

than I should be. Whereas I know full well, that fundamentals are

Bassam Sabbagh:

the same, it's just a matter of mindset in terms of Think Big

Bassam Sabbagh:

versus think small. So it's really growing up in that in,

Bassam Sabbagh:

you know, low risk approach to everything. And, you know, not

Bassam Sabbagh:

push the envelope not not step out, really influenced how I see

Bassam Sabbagh:

growth and how I how I see, therefore, how I see money.

Cat Ford-Coates:

I think the, I love that you brought up, like

Cat Ford-Coates:

what you learned from your parents in that, like,

Cat Ford-Coates:

conservative aspect, and risk taking is something that that we

Cat Ford-Coates:

all go through. And there, there's, there's so much I can

Cat Ford-Coates:

say about this. One. There is like with my parents,

Cat Ford-Coates:

specifically, my mom grew up very, very poor. My dad did not

Cat Ford-Coates:

my dad came up in a an upper middle class, family name, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, my grandfather, he worked, but it was very like, okay, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, there's enough money to move around. But my grandmother,

Cat Ford-Coates:

you know, she was very frugal and being passed down, like, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

don't even really know what it is that you know, until you

Cat Ford-Coates:

realize what it is. My parents had a really severe argument

Cat Ford-Coates:

when I was a kid. And I think I've even talked about that in

Cat Ford-Coates:

this room before. But my dad was really upset with my mom,

Cat Ford-Coates:

because there was a cheque missing from the checkbook. And

Cat Ford-Coates:

I had taken it, I was maybe eight or nine years old. And I

Cat Ford-Coates:

had taken it because I assumed that checks equal money. And I

Cat Ford-Coates:

wanted to know what that was. So I stolen this cheque. And I'd

Cat Ford-Coates:

hidden it in my room and was like, Oh, now I have money. And

Cat Ford-Coates:

it caused like World War Three in my house. And my mom came up,

Cat Ford-Coates:

you know, upstairs, and she was begging me like Katherine,

Cat Ford-Coates:

please. And my dad was furious assumed that my mom had gone on

Cat Ford-Coates:

some spending spree. And like, it was just this big knockdown

Cat Ford-Coates:

drag out thing. And as an eight or nine year old kid, what I

Cat Ford-Coates:

learned from that experience, at the time was that when you have

Cat Ford-Coates:

money, you're mean to the people that you love. Well, the reality

Cat Ford-Coates:

of that was no, my dad was pissed, made assumptions about

Cat Ford-Coates:

what my mom may or may not have done with the check, which

Cat Ford-Coates:

equaled money. And they were having an argument about it, and

Cat Ford-Coates:

she was begging me to come clean, which I never did. And,

Cat Ford-Coates:

like that was the very first rule of money that I learned as

Cat Ford-Coates:

a child that I took into my adult life. Now move fast

Cat Ford-Coates:

forward to when I was 18. And getting kicked out of my house

Cat Ford-Coates:

and I was like, I don't want your fucking money, keep your

Cat Ford-Coates:

money. I'm gonna, you know, bring myself up to success and

Cat Ford-Coates:

become wealthy and low all on my own. Because the other thing

Cat Ford-Coates:

that is typically taught like throughout media and movies, and

Cat Ford-Coates:

all the things is there's a nobility to rags to riches

Cat Ford-Coates:

stories, there's a nobility to finding your way from a space of

Cat Ford-Coates:

not having had anything to having more. And so the general

Cat Ford-Coates:

assumption that's made in media is well, you might not have

Cat Ford-Coates:

anything today but you know, pull yourself up by the

Cat Ford-Coates:

bootstraps and one day you will have something. What they don't

Cat Ford-Coates:

teach you is you know how to To keep it, how to invest with it,

Cat Ford-Coates:

how to do all of the things so that you maintain that success.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Because the only nobility there is, is in not having anything

Cat Ford-Coates:

and still being able to provide and live a whole life. And so

Cat Ford-Coates:

wrapping your head around how that isn't true, right, and

Cat Ford-Coates:

being able to build a business around bringing value to the

Cat Ford-Coates:

world, and then receiving money for it is really where that you

Cat Ford-Coates:

sort of start disconnecting all of those old beliefs. But when

Cat Ford-Coates:

you're starting a business, how many of us have started a

Cat Ford-Coates:

business like Becca, you said, 75, I think the first time I was

Cat Ford-Coates:

paid was for $50. And I was like, oh, somebody will pay me

Cat Ford-Coates:

money for this. Like, realizing that, when you're starting the

Cat Ford-Coates:

business, it's, well, this is a lot of money to me. So it must

Cat Ford-Coates:

mean that it's a lot of money to other people. And the largest

Cat Ford-Coates:

sea of people that are shopping are people that are looking for

Cat Ford-Coates:

those really great deals, instead of trying to align

Cat Ford-Coates:

yourself straight out of the gate with the people who are

Cat Ford-Coates:

valuing what you do, whether that is selling status or

Cat Ford-Coates:

experience or, you know, insert thing here. And then once you

Cat Ford-Coates:

find the alignment with that, do you start to see that just

Cat Ford-Coates:

because you put a price tag on something at $200 does not mean

Cat Ford-Coates:

that it's going to be valued in the same way, by people who have

Cat Ford-Coates:

a lot of money or don't does that? Does that make sense? I

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, I sort of went off on a bit of a tangent.

Nicole York:

No, absolutely, It completely makes sense. And I

Nicole York:

think, you know, understanding your experience as a kid and how

Nicole York:

that colored your beliefs about money and then knowing like you

Nicole York:

now as a badass business lady, and, and how the kind of work

Nicole York:

that you've had to do to get to that place. And the recognition

Nicole York:

of the fact that just because something is $200 does not mean

Nicole York:

$200 across the board to everybody, like our definition,

Nicole York:

we can all use the same word. And yet still, our definition

Nicole York:

can be slightly different to me, $200 might mean, paying all of

Nicole York:

my utilities this month and to somebody else $200 might mean

Nicole York:

just not, you know, not getting something extra for themselves

Nicole York:

that they like, like the very base level value of that money

Nicole York:

in our lives is going to be completely different. And it can

Nicole York:

be difficult to understand what that looks like for other people

Nicole York:

outside of our realm of experience. Like if that just

Nicole York:

means not buying an extra handbag for one person. But it

Nicole York:

means putting food on the table for the next two weeks for

Nicole York:

somebody else, obviously, that $200 hasn't changed, but what it

Nicole York:

looks like in our life has. And it can be really, really hard to

Nicole York:

make that mental adjustment, especially when you haven't

Nicole York:

experienced anything outside of your own value system. So it

Nicole York:

makes a whole lot of sense. As we come up on, we're about 20

Nicole York:

minutes from the end of the hour, I really want to call on

Nicole York:

friends in the audience today. I think before we can have any

Nicole York:

really meaningful conversation about how to get over a lot of

Nicole York:

these blocks and hurdles, we need to understand what they

Nicole York:

actually are. So if you have any difficulties around money, that

Nicole York:

have not been discussed yet, and you're willing to come up and

Nicole York:

kind of expose those to the light today, we would really

Nicole York:

love to have you because the more we can open this stuff up.

Nicole York:

And the more we can expose it, the easier it's going to be for

Nicole York:

people who maybe listen to this replay later on or if they

Nicole York:

listen to the podcast, or maybe read the blogs that come about

Nicole York:

because of these conversations, then hopefully, they will see

Nicole York:

what we are going through mirrored and their own

Nicole York:

experience. And the solutions that we find will actually make

Nicole York:

sense to them. So if you are that person today, if you have

Nicole York:

any blocks around money or if you have overcome any blocks

Nicole York:

around money in the past, we would really love for you to

Nicole York:

come up and share today what those are so we can get

Nicole York:

everything on the table. So please go ahead and raise your

Nicole York:

hand if you have anything you're willing to share. And we will

Nicole York:

pull you up. So I'm just going to be keeping an eye out for any

Nicole York:

hands that come up.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And while people are kind of determining

Cat Ford-Coates:

whether or not they want to share. I think it's also

Cat Ford-Coates:

important to note that where those those money blocks are

Cat Ford-Coates:

that you might not even see Right, they sort of become

Cat Ford-Coates:

blinders how that pricing is set, and I realized this is sort

Cat Ford-Coates:

of getting ahead of us a little bit will determine what's the

Cat Ford-Coates:

best way to say this. Like, say your price point is at $200, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

might be dismissed as being too expensive for some, but at $200,

Cat Ford-Coates:

you might also be dismissed, because you aren't priced high

Cat Ford-Coates:

enough for somebody in a different tax bracket to value

Cat Ford-Coates:

what it is that you're offering. So understanding that those

Cat Ford-Coates:

those value assessments and assumptions that are made by

Cat Ford-Coates:

your audience are done both ways. Does that make sense?

Bekka Bjorke:

Isn't there a thing about that? Like the the

Bekka Bjorke:

middle price or something is where businesses go to die? I

Bekka Bjorke:

don't know what the term was something like

Cat Ford-Coates:

love it, though. I don't know where it's

Cat Ford-Coates:

from. But yes.

Nicole York:

Yep. Yep, have heard that one. And yeah, cat,

Nicole York:

it absolutely does make sense. And as you were explaining that,

Nicole York:

I was thinking about the fact that so many of these blocks,

Nicole York:

and these difficulties come from the fact that we somehow tie

Nicole York:

morality to money, as if money itself is a moral thing, when

Nicole York:

it's not, it's literally just a tool. It is our decisions and

Nicole York:

our personal beliefs that make our behaviors around money

Nicole York:

moral. And so we can we kind of look at money as if it is this

Nicole York:

thing that stands on its own. And depending on what our belief

Nicole York:

system is, is going to affect what we believe about that

Nicole York:

money. Like if you were to see a stack of money on the table, you

Nicole York:

know, taking that money is going to feel different for everybody,

Nicole York:

depending on what they believe money represents. And if you

Nicole York:

grew up believing money is the root of all evil, which let's

Nicole York:

just be clear, really quickly. That is actually not what the

Nicole York:

verse says. It says the love of money is the root of all evil,

Nicole York:

it's the love. That is the moral thing and not the money itself.

Nicole York:

If we have these ideas about whether or not money is a moral

Nicole York:

thing on its own, then of course, it's going to become

Nicole York:

exponentially more difficult to deal with it in a way that feels

Nicole York:

good to us. And to recognize the fact that other people out there

Nicole York:

will have a different relationship to money than we

Nicole York:

do. And so when you say, Oh, nobody will spend that you're

Nicole York:

making a moral judgment about a completely amoral transaction.

Nicole York:

Because you believe that people's beliefs about money

Nicole York:

mean that that is an unfair amount to ask for goods and

Nicole York:

services, when there really is not such a thing. As an unfair

Nicole York:

amount to ask for goods and services. There is only are you

Nicole York:

appealing to somebody whose value structure lies within what

Nicole York:

you're asking. So I think that's another important thing to come

Nicole York:

away with this. Come away from this conversation with I noticed

Nicole York:

that since Allah has joined us a sissala would love to hear what

Nicole York:

your thoughts are on money blocks on beliefs about money

Nicole York:

that we should expose in order to be able to deal better with

Nicole York:

money.

Unknown:

Do you have like five hours?

Sissela:

No, so I have plenty. But one of the biggest one and

Sissela:

that was actually kind of prompted by cat is where my

Sissela:

money blocks one of them anyway kind of got dissolved. It was

Sissela:

years ago, I started. I started out as a wedding photographer,

Sissela:

just like a lot of other people. And I charged what I thought was

Sissela:

a lot of money back then. Just as you say it is perception it

Sissela:

is based on where you are. And so I had these clients and they

Sissela:

were good friends of mine or well not good for their friends.

Sissela:

And they we sat down for the consultation, we talked and

Sissela:

everything. And they hired me. And I charged like having four

Sissela:

or 5000 danish kroners at the time, which again, I thought was

Sissela:

a lot of money. Then afterwards, she comes up to me and she's

Sissela:

like sizzler, I just want to let you know that if you had charged

Sissela:

any less than that, we wouldn't have hired you. Because that

Sissela:

wouldn't have been a professional price. And that

Sissela:

lesson was one of the biggest lessons that I've had in my

Sissela:

career and it still sits with me to this day. Especially coming

Sissela:

from Denmark, which is a country that money I mean, you're not

Sissela:

supposed to have them at least not more than the rest. So

Sissela:

that's some of my money blocks. Fortunately, the currency is

Sissela:

different so I don't have American money blocks. Really. I

Sissela:

have a few but May I mean, you have Danish money blocks. But

Sissela:

that's a whole different story. But yeah, my point is that

Sissela:

charging too little can make you seem a certain way in certain

Sissela:

people's eyes. And charging, what you're worth is one of the

Sissela:

most important things to really drill into people that you are a

Sissela:

professional, professional, and you just serve the money that

Sissela:

you are charging, basically.

Nicole York:

Absolutely. And that just reinforces the fact,

Nicole York:

as we were mentioning, you know, we have different definitions,

Nicole York:

even though we're using the same words, when I say $200, there

Nicole York:

are connotations in my head, about what $200 means, when

Nicole York:

somebody else says $200, there are different connotations in

Nicole York:

their head. And for somebody to say, you know, this is what a

Nicole York:

professional rate is. And anything below that tells me

Nicole York:

that you're not equipped to handle this job is a legitimate

Nicole York:

belief that people have about money. And recognizing the fact

Nicole York:

that we're all walking around, looking at this tool from a

Nicole York:

different perspective, I just had an analogy popped into my

Nicole York:

head, so I'm going to use it really quickly. I look at a

Nicole York:

clawfoot Hammer as a way to hang pictures on a wall like that's

Nicole York:

kind of the main use of that, for me, when somebody else sees

Nicole York:

a clawfoot hammer, they see a tool to build a house, when

Nicole York:

somebody else sees a clawfoot hammer, they may actually see an

Nicole York:

artistic instrument that they use when they create. Even

Nicole York:

though we're all looking at the same tool, we're each looking at

Nicole York:

it from a different perspective. And money is no different. When

Nicole York:

some people look at money, they're going to see the the

Nicole York:

kind of object of desperation, right, this thing that I need in

Nicole York:

order to just continue living and other people will see it as

Nicole York:

a tool for enjoyment, they have enough that they don't have to

Nicole York:

worry about meeting their needs. And so money becomes something

Nicole York:

that they play the stock market with or that they go on a trip

Nicole York:

with or that they you know, buy goods and services with, they're

Nicole York:

not necessarily seeing as the same object of desperation. So

Nicole York:

coming to terms with the fact that everybody is looking at the

Nicole York:

same tool with a different set of eyes, I think is going to be

Nicole York:

a really big part of this process of helping us come to

Nicole York:

terms with the fact that not everybody sees money the same

Nicole York:

way we do. And for us to attach our moral standards to the tool

Nicole York:

as if it is objective truth about the tool is a big hurdle,

Nicole York:

we're going to have to jump so I noticed MJ has also joined us

Nicole York:

Hello, Miss lady would love to hear your thoughts about things

Nicole York:

that we need to expose about our money beliefs before.

Melissa:

Dan, I love that you use the word expose. That does

Melissa:

that makes me want to go back Can I go back down to the

Melissa:

audience. Um, but I, one of the things I run into and kind of

Melissa:

cycle through is holding on to that money once I get it, and

Melissa:

how i i Hold on to things I've learned and grown up with, on

Melissa:

how to handle money. Like I had one grandparent that would

Melissa:

always say, you know, we don't have a lot of money like your

Melissa:

other grandparents to, to spend money on you. And they were very

Melissa:

tight with money and it was very much a thing that they were

Melissa:

envious of, or would talk definitely talk about it. And

Melissa:

then the other family. We're all about money. There's plenty of

Melissa:

money money's coming in. But they would spend it Oh, like, as

Melissa:

an outlet to, you know, like to, to as a fix to feed feelings.

Melissa:

I'm not sure how to. To put that into words.

Nicole York:

My parents would say they're trying to buy your

Nicole York:

love. Right? Yeah.

Melissa:

Well, and then also like, if, if they're having a

Melissa:

hard day like it would be they go spend money to fix it. Like

Melissa:

instead of working through a problem. Let's go buy something

Melissa:

and get that. That feeling and now we have stuff and so we'll

Melissa:

feel better about it. Does that make sense?

Nicole York:

Yep, yep. So that's tilt there.

Melissa:

It is. Yes, retail therapy. Exactly. And and it can

Melissa:

have its place but it was used to an extreme and they ended up

Melissa:

like losing their house. So I always both grandparents did

Melissa:

they have their dream houses at one point and then they ended up

Melissa:

losing them. And I so I'm and I grew up thinking I don't that

Melissa:

shouldn't be it. I really want to find people that don't like

Melissa:

make it and then lose it. And that's one of the issues I run

Melissa:

into is getting money and how to value it and hold on to it in my

Melissa:

business, but also understanding the balance the balance between

Melissa:

like investing back in the business and investing in

Melissa:

education or equipment and, and, and like debt to like capital

Melissa:

gains. So though that's what I that may not be the direction

Melissa:

you're going, that's just one of my money blocks personally.

Nicole York:

No, that's absolutely fantastic. And thank

Nicole York:

you for sharing it because I know when we talk about money it

Nicole York:

can be, these are issues that can be really close to our

Nicole York:

heart, and particularly our experiences growing up, and we

Nicole York:

kind of grab and hold on to these things, and I absolutely

Nicole York:

suffer. I'm finding that challenge the same way, growing

Nicole York:

up poor, and then getting to a place where my husband and I

Nicole York:

have made ourselves relatively financially comfortable, at

Nicole York:

least compared to what my frame of reference was, as a child,

Nicole York:

when we finally had money put away in savings, a decent amount

Nicole York:

of money put away in savings, my ultimate fear was losing that

Nicole York:

money like and anytime we had to dip into that savings for

Nicole York:

something, even though it was all legitimate things like

Nicole York:

somebody hit my car, and we had to replace the car. You know,

Nicole York:

even though it was all legitimate things, there's

Nicole York:

always this Oh, my God, I'm seeing the balance go down, and

Nicole York:

oh, no, what now and I just want to clutch it like, with my

Nicole York:

fingers very desperately, and hold it so that it doesn't go

Nicole York:

away. But that too, is a dangerous way to treat money. So

Nicole York:

that is certainly something that we need to look at, as we talk

Nicole York:

about how we get over these hurdles. So if you're just

Nicole York:

joining us today, we have been talking about the blocks that we

Nicole York:

have with money, the ideas and beliefs that we have around

Nicole York:

money that are holding us back from treating it, like the tool

Nicole York:

that it is in order to live the life and have the kind of

Nicole York:

artistic businesses we want to have. So we're just exposing

Nicole York:

these issues so that we can deal with them in the upcoming weeks,

Nicole York:

and really get everything out on the table. Ari, I know that you

Nicole York:

have a lot of passion around this subject. So I would love to

Nicole York:

hear what your thoughts are. And then we'll kind of wrap

Nicole York:

everything up to prepare.

Ariel Schochet:

Yeah, no, I'm not gonna go down the rabbit

Ariel Schochet:

hole, don't worry. But um, you know, I guess one thing I just

Ariel Schochet:

want to throw out there is that it's come up in a couple of

Ariel Schochet:

different ways in different people's statements. So I just

Ariel Schochet:

want to throw this out, because I think it might help the

Ariel Schochet:

conversation, you know, through the week is to differentiate the

Ariel Schochet:

difference between spending money, and it's gone. Like,

Ariel Schochet:

let's say you go and buy an expensive meal, you eat the

Ariel Schochet:

meal, the meal is gone, versus using money and getting an asset

Ariel Schochet:

and return. Meaning when you buy a piece of art, you're not

Ariel Schochet:

really consumed that that that value that you spend on that art

Ariel Schochet:

still exists, you may be overspending, it may not be

Ariel Schochet:

worth as much same thing with the car, you buy an expensive

Ariel Schochet:

car, yes, the value goes down in the minute you drive it off the

Ariel Schochet:

lot, but there's still value there. And the biggest thing

Ariel Schochet:

that people I find struggle with is when talking about especially

Ariel Schochet:

talking about debt is in terms of buying a house. Because when

Ariel Schochet:

you buy a house, a lot of people will say, Oh my gosh, I'm going

Ariel Schochet:

to be you know, in debt for most of my life. But we have to

Ariel Schochet:

realize or keep in mind. And this is sort of the framework

Ariel Schochet:

that I'm trying to propose is that you're acquiring an asset,

Ariel Schochet:

as well. And assuming that you're not dramatically

Ariel Schochet:

overpaying for that house, the asset matches up with the debt.

Ariel Schochet:

And so it's important to just differentiate between, you know,

Ariel Schochet:

spending money for your own, you know, pleasure benefit

Ariel Schochet:

lifestyle, every day, versus transferring your money into a

Ariel Schochet:

different asset class than just cash or, you know, simple stock

Ariel Schochet:

fund or something like that. And I think that that can help

Ariel Schochet:

people a little bit, think about, you know, some of these

Ariel Schochet:

barriers that have come up today, because I'm even just to

Ariel Schochet:

pick on, I know, you didn't mean it in a way that I'm going to

Ariel Schochet:

bring it up but even just saying playing the stock market. Well,

Ariel Schochet:

if you go and buy an individual stock, or you buy something very

Ariel Schochet:

speculative or you know, a single biotech stock that's

Ariel Schochet:

based on the traction of one drug being successful or

Ariel Schochet:

something like that, that could be playing the stock market and

Ariel Schochet:

in a sense gambling, not much different than just, you know,

Ariel Schochet:

throwing the money on on black or red and roulette table. But

Ariel Schochet:

if you take your cash and you put it into let's say, an index

Ariel Schochet:

fund that represents 5000 stocks or something like that all it's

Ariel Schochet:

all that you're doing, they're just transferring it to a

Ariel Schochet:

different asset. that class, and you still have that money. And

Ariel Schochet:

so I just I just want to sort of help set the stage in terms of

Ariel Schochet:

the discussion going forward. Because that, to me, there's a

Ariel Schochet:

huge difference. And I, you know, my background is my

Ariel Schochet:

grandparents were children in the Depression. My grandfather,

Ariel Schochet:

you know, started working when his father died at 13. When my

Ariel Schochet:

father, my grandfather was 13. And, you know, he was a child of

Ariel Schochet:

depression and, and that influenced him, and he would

Ariel Schochet:

never, even though he was very successful, never signed, with

Ariel Schochet:

one exception, with the exception of his one car he

Ariel Schochet:

bought in 79. He never spent a penny on himself. And, you know,

Ariel Schochet:

obviously, we have all these things that that we carry with

Ariel Schochet:

us that these different cultural issues and and what have you

Ariel Schochet:

that, that filter, how we look at things, but I guess I just

Ariel Schochet:

wanted to throw out the idea of the difference between, you

Ariel Schochet:

know, a consumable or a luxury versus on spending money on an

Ariel Schochet:

asset that still retain its value. And I think maybe if we

Ariel Schochet:

think of it in sort of those types of terms, it helps, you

Ariel Schochet:

know, with the discussion overall, I hope that's helpful.

Ariel Schochet:

This is already.

Bekka Bjorke:

That's super interesting Aria, and actually

Bekka Bjorke:

something I've been kind of musing on is, we've had these

Bekka Bjorke:

multiple conversations with people mentioning, you know,

Bekka Bjorke:

growing up without a lot of money. So my partner, my

Bekka Bjorke:

husband, also, he grew up very poor. And he has a very

Bekka Bjorke:

different approach to money, where, once he was an adult and

Bekka Bjorke:

working and had his own money, he liked to spend it immediately

Bekka Bjorke:

on those consumable things, because it was going to be gone,

Bekka Bjorke:

someone was going to spend it, so he might as well spend it on

Bekka Bjorke:

things that made him happy, before it disappeared into

Bekka Bjorke:

something else, which is very different than the more like

Bekka Bjorke:

Dragon in your Hoard. And like hoping that Not a cent gets

Bekka Bjorke:

lost. And you know, that it's gone forever mentality that I

Bekka Bjorke:

know, I personally started out with, and, you know, still kind

Bekka Bjorke:

of fight with myself. But it's, you know, that was when we

Bekka Bjorke:

disagreed a lot on when we were first dating. And we've now

Bekka Bjorke:

reached a much more healthy approach where we are looking at

Bekka Bjorke:

things as liquid and finding that value in assets, like you

Bekka Bjorke:

mentioned, and it has made our lives so much better to look at

Bekka Bjorke:

money as a kind of fluid that can grow and add in, you know,

Bekka Bjorke:

everything and come and go and, you know, investing

Bekka Bjorke:

intelligently, instead of just spending hedonistic li so 100%

Cat Ford-Coates:

I think it's also important to note, the

Cat Ford-Coates:

verbage that are he's using, and that the expectation is that

Cat Ford-Coates:

everyone knows what you're saying, when you say things like

Cat Ford-Coates:

assets, and invest, and even Baca, like money being fluid,

Cat Ford-Coates:

there was a time in my life where all of that sounded like,

Cat Ford-Coates:

a foreign language to me. So I a lot like your husband back out

Cat Ford-Coates:

would simply spend, because I knew if I didn't, and I tried to

Cat Ford-Coates:

keep it, that it would go somewhere else, it would have to

Cat Ford-Coates:

go to a bill or some unexpected payment. So if I was ever going

Cat Ford-Coates:

to earn any money, then I had to go ahead and spend what I had,

Cat Ford-Coates:

because I didn't know any other way. Right? Like an

Cat Ford-Coates:

understanding that, you know, investment is a language and

Cat Ford-Coates:

educating yourself around what that means, like what the hell

Cat Ford-Coates:

is a hedge fund, you know, like, that kind of thing that you hear

Cat Ford-Coates:

in financial speak, but you don't know what any of it means.

Cat Ford-Coates:

The sooner you can wrap your head around educating yourself

Cat Ford-Coates:

around what these things are, the sooner you'll be able to

Cat Ford-Coates:

sort of Empower yourself into leveraging your cash in a way

Cat Ford-Coates:

that is in your best interest in the best interest of your

Nicole York:

there's been so much good stuff said by the

Nicole York:

three of you guys. And I really want to touch on a couple things

Nicole York:

before I tie everything up for the day and one is our Yeah, I'm

Nicole York:

actually really glad you notice the fact that I use the term

Nicole York:

playing when I mentioned the stock market. And the reason

Nicole York:

that I use that word specifically is because when I

Nicole York:

was younger, and the people that I grew up around, we did not

Nicole York:

recognize investment in the way that you are talking about it

Nicole York:

now and the way that I understand it now as an adult,

Nicole York:

the fact that the value so if if we look at money merely as a

Nicole York:

representation of value, it remains valuable. Whether it is

Nicole York:

in a you know, let's say we'll use back as analogy of liquid,

Nicole York:

the liquid remains a liquid, whether it is in an ice cube and

Nicole York:

a bucket or in several cups, right? It is still liquid, the

Nicole York:

value of the money still exists. If you are investing in stock if

Nicole York:

you are buying power Property, etc, etc, these things have

Nicole York:

value, the money is just a representation of the value. So

Nicole York:

when I was younger, what we understood about people playing

Nicole York:

the Spock Spock stock market was That was where rich people

Nicole York:

played roulette with their money, right? Like that was

Nicole York:

where people played. The slot was like going to Vegas, and

Nicole York:

only really rich people who had money to spare could do that

Nicole York:

kind of thing. And so we did absolutely look at it as playing

Nicole York:

wasn't like sound investment strategy, it was, they can do

Nicole York:

this to get even more money than they already have. Because they

Nicole York:

have all this extra money to play with. And so are our base

Nicole York:

level understanding of what money is, was just wrongheaded.

Nicole York:

And that's why these conversations are so important.

Nicole York:

And that's why the conversations around financial literacy are so

Nicole York:

important. Because the less educated we are about the way

Nicole York:

that money really behaves in the economy, the less capable we are

Nicole York:

of taking advantage of it of speaking that language, like you

Nicole York:

mentioned, cat, and being able to use our money in ways that

Nicole York:

are going to keep us where we want to be, and not form a rope

Nicole York:

that we're desperately hanging on to, as we're sliding down

Nicole York:

into the pit, right like that is the greatest fear is ending up

Nicole York:

back in that place. So that's a big reason of why I wanted to

Nicole York:

begin are conversations about business with what our beliefs

Nicole York:

are about money, because if we don't have this stuff straight,

Nicole York:

that is going to manifest itself later on, and how we handle our

Nicole York:

business that is going to show up, when we start trying to sell

Nicole York:

our goods and services, when we don't get what we think we

Nicole York:

should be having or when we are not receiving enough. And we

Nicole York:

look at our bank accounts, and we go, I had so much business

Nicole York:

this month, why am I still struggling? How come I can't put

Nicole York:

away money, how come I don't have savings, all of those

Nicole York:

things. That stuff will manifest itself later on in our business

Nicole York:

if we don't have our head in the right place. Now. So what I

Nicole York:

would love to see from you guys, today in the Facebook group, if

Nicole York:

you have links, if you have material that you know of

Nicole York:

anything that can help people start to, like increase their

Nicole York:

financial literacy, share those links, share those services,

Nicole York:

whatever they are, people can choose what they pay attention

Nicole York:

to. So if it is something even that you sell, or that somebody

Nicole York:

else sells, don't worry about that, we're going on the

Nicole York:

assumption here, that everybody is intelligent results. And they

Nicole York:

can adults and they can make their own decisions. share those

Nicole York:

links, let's just pile together as much information as we can.

Nicole York:

So folks know where to look. Because for a long time, I

Nicole York:

didn't even realize that I didn't know this stuff. Like as

Nicole York:

I was in my early 20s. Even I didn't know that there was an

Nicole York:

entire language and an entire, like, I was holding on to the

Nicole York:

elephant's tail thinking I knew what an elephant was.

Nicole York:

And we need the most information we can get. So let's use the

Nicole York:

Facebook group today to kind of just put as much together as we

Nicole York:

can. So today, we spent time exposing a lot of the wrong

Nicole York:

beliefs, or I should say the limiting beliefs, not wrong

Nicole York:

beliefs, a lot of the limiting beliefs that we have about

Nicole York:

money, a lot of our misunderstandings about money,

Nicole York:

and the things that are stopping us from really having the kind

Nicole York:

of businesses that we enjoy that help us lead the kind of life we

Nicole York:

want to live that allow us to be abundant, let me be really

Nicole York:

clear. We're not getting into woowoo here about money, I'm not

Nicole York:

going to start talking about vibrations and other things like

Nicole York:

that. Even though I believe that there is some science that backs

Nicole York:

some of that stuff up. That's not what we're talking about

Nicole York:

here. We're literally talking about how we define terms, and

Nicole York:

how we understand and a system that many of us don't actually

Nicole York:

understand. There are people out there who do, they're able to

Nicole York:

walk into the system and take advantage of it. I was not that

Nicole York:

person. So I'm going to go on the assumption that many of us

Nicole York:

still have some of these beliefs. We expose those today,

Nicole York:

we shared some of the things that have stopped us from having

Nicole York:

the kind of business for making the income etc, that we've

Nicole York:

wanted to even things that are related specifically to us as

Nicole York:

artists, things that artists struggle with, where money is

Nicole York:

concerned for the rest of the week, we are really going to

Nicole York:

tackle those limiting beliefs. We're going to talk about how we

Nicole York:

overcome them, and we're going to share how we can become more

Nicole York:

financially literate. That way when we get into the rest of the

Nicole York:

discussions on business. We have a really solid foundation

Nicole York:

because business is all about exchanging value, adding value

Nicole York:

to someone's life, that they in turn are willing to pay back to

Nicole York:

you. So we have to have a solid foundation before we get into

Nicole York:

those discussions. How we started For our businesses, are

Nicole York:

we going to become sole proprietors? Are we LLC? Do we

Nicole York:

need to become an LLC? For any good reasons? What should we be

Nicole York:

doing with the money that our business earns? How much? What

Nicole York:

percentage of that? Should we be getting paid? What should be

Nicole York:

going towards marketing? What should be going towards

Nicole York:

increasing education? How do we structure how people pay us? Are

Nicole York:

we doing things that are ala carte? Are we selling packages?

Nicole York:

Are we selling individual prints? Like, what do we do, in

Nicole York:

order to build the kind of business we want to run that

Nicole York:

gives us a life we want to live. So if you want to be here for

Nicole York:

that, if you believe that, you know, folks who need to be part

Nicole York:

of this conversation, please invite them to come be here in

Nicole York:

the morning with us, or remind everybody that there are replays

Nicole York:

on so they can come to the artists forge clubhouse, get

Nicole York:

into these replays, we are also working on building these for

Nicole York:

podcasting. So folks who are not using clubhouse also have access

Nicole York:

to these talks. And as I mentioned before, if you go to

Nicole York:

the link up at the top, all of the mentors of the artist forge

Nicole York:

have agreed to five mentor sessions apiece with all of that

Nicole York:

income going back into the artists forge in order to build

Nicole York:

more resources for everybody who joins us here so we can continue

Nicole York:

to grow the proper mindsets that we need to become the artists we

Nicole York:

want to be and have the careers we want to have. So I'm really

Nicole York:

excited for these conversation, guys. I wish that I had access

Nicole York:

to this stuff when I was younger, because I think my life

Nicole York:

would look really different. And my business certainly would be

Nicole York:

very different than it is now. So I hope you will come ready to

Nicole York:

have these conversations. And we will see you bright and early

Nicole York:

tomorrow morning at 7am Mountain Standard Time that is 6am for

Nicole York:

the West Coast. 9am for the East Coast, afternoon for our friends

Nicole York:

overseas. In the meantime, until tomorrow morning. Go make

Nicole York:

something amazing. Make sure you share those links in the

Nicole York:

Facebook group, the artists forge on Facebook, it is

Nicole York:

private. So if you're not in there, give us that in requests

Nicole York:

and we will let you in. Go have an amazing day guys. We'll see

Nicole York:

you bright and early tomorrow morning.

Matt Stagliano:

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

Matt Stagliano:

discussion moderated by all of us at the artist Forge. We hope

Matt Stagliano:

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

Matt Stagliano:

episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit

Matt Stagliano:

the artists forge.com and go make something incredible

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge

About the Podcast

Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge
How to Critique Art
Learn how mindset, creativity, and visual literacy will help you think like an artist so you can create work you love and build a career that matters; bridging the gap between technique and art.

About your host

Profile picture for Nicole York

Nicole York