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Published on:

22nd Feb 2022

Finding Your Ideal Client

In order to sell your work, you need to find the right clients, but how? Learning what you have to offer and what problems you can solve is the first step. The next step is telling the right people.

In this episode, you'll learn:

  • How to create the avatar of an ideal client
  • How to discover where to find your ideal client
  • How to create marketing copy that speaks to your ideal client
  • How to identify customer pain points

If you want to learn more about marketing you can find it here: https://player.captivate.fm/episode/1b0a772c-6fd1-4462-bb2b-44f3217682c3

Learn more about how to think like an artist on The Artist's Forge, and join our growing community of artists on Facebook.

Want to know more about the hosts?

Nicole York

Matt Stagliano

Cat Ford-Coates

Bassam Sabbagh

Bekka Bjorke

Transcript
Matt Stagliano:

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

Matt Stagliano:

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

Matt Stagliano:

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

Matt Stagliano:

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

Matt Stagliano:

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

Matt Stagliano:

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

Matt Stagliano:

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

Matt Stagliano:

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

Matt Stagliano:

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

Matt Stagliano:

us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.

Nicole York:

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to morning

Nicole York:

walk and business talk with the artists Forge. My name is Nicole

Nicole York:

York, I will be your host. As I cruise along on my morning walk.

Nicole York:

We have discussions about business. As artists. We have

Nicole York:

been in the discussion about business for the last week and

Nicole York:

some change, just trying to figure out how we can master the

Nicole York:

business of art. And today, we are talking about marketing,

Nicole York:

extending our conversation. Yesterday, we started with some

Nicole York:

of the very broad basics. And today we're getting into how we

Nicole York:

actually find our ideal client. We know some of the things we

Nicole York:

can do to market things like personal branding and messaging

Nicole York:

with the heart of our businesses the value that we're adding to

Nicole York:

the marketplace. But how do we find these people? And who are

Nicole York:

they? We're going to have that discussion today, we're going to

Nicole York:

talk about things like customer avatars, spending and buying

Nicole York:

habits, personality types where we can find these people, how do

Nicole York:

we reach them. So our resident business guru, the lovely cat,

Nicole York:

four coats of Atelier unforgettable is going to be

Nicole York:

driving the conversation today around finding our ideal

Nicole York:

clients. And I know yesterday, we had some really great back

Nicole York:

and forth with this idea of an avatar. And you know, you

Nicole York:

started cat with a really broad points, looking at things like

Nicole York:

demographics and all that good stuff. So now that we have a few

Nicole York:

ideas of things that we can talk to our ideal clients about, how

Nicole York:

do we find these people need?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Alright, so the one question I did want to ask,

Cat Ford-Coates:

Are we sort of what's the what's the best way to ask us? Are we

Cat Ford-Coates:

determining this based on the business plan blueprint that we

Cat Ford-Coates:

were that we kicked off? I don't know if it was earlier this

Cat Ford-Coates:

week, or last week, about a specific type of photographer?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Or are we gearing this primarily like as a general overview?

Nicole York:

So I think we can certainly use that business kind

Nicole York:

of overview if we need specific examples. But this is, I think

Nicole York:

we can say as much as possible with a broader point. So it's

Nicole York:

applicable all the way across.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Okay, cool. Um, all right. Well, the way I

Cat Ford-Coates:

typically like to do just about anything in business is by

Cat Ford-Coates:

reverse engineering. So when it comes to marketing, you know, we

Cat Ford-Coates:

talked a little bit about word clouds yesterday. And that's

Cat Ford-Coates:

really a super simple formula for my brain to keep it in that

Cat Ford-Coates:

left brain space, as I sort of diagram out the different things

Cat Ford-Coates:

and I do that I think, okay, what is it that I want to sell?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Right? Is it a fine art line? Is it a fantasy art line? Is it a

Cat Ford-Coates:

personal branding? Is it standard portrait? Is it

Cat Ford-Coates:

boudoir, that kind of thing, and then start thinking about the

Cat Ford-Coates:

pain points, that would then be a catalyst for someone to make a

Cat Ford-Coates:

purchase? Because that that product, right? Are that

Cat Ford-Coates:

experience that I'm providing is solving is the solution for

Cat Ford-Coates:

those pain points it alleviate that pain, and then work your

Cat Ford-Coates:

way backwards and say, okay, so what is the pain that my product

Cat Ford-Coates:

or service is alleviating? And then who experiences that pain?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Right? So is it a mom? Is it a grandmother? Is it some CEO is

Cat Ford-Coates:

it you know, find that archetype and start there, and then start

Cat Ford-Coates:

thinking, okay, so if it's a CEO, right, where does that

Cat Ford-Coates:

person spend their time? And where do they spend their money?

Cat Ford-Coates:

And that's really where you can start dialing in building out

Cat Ford-Coates:

that ideal client, because if you can already tell where

Cat Ford-Coates:

they're spending their money, you become part of that traffic.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And now all of a sudden your product or service becomes part

Cat Ford-Coates:

of where they spend their money on So you want to think about,

Cat Ford-Coates:

Gosh, who are they? What's their family status? What do they

Cat Ford-Coates:

value? Then you get into like the nitty gritty demographics,

Cat Ford-Coates:

right? Like, how old are they? Where do they spend their time?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Where do they spend their money? So when you have that sort of

Cat Ford-Coates:

idea, you think about, okay, what are they wearing? Say

Cat Ford-Coates:

you're at a networking event, and you're really trying to, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, kick off your personal branding game, right. So you

Cat Ford-Coates:

have several types of people that are in those networking

Cat Ford-Coates:

events, and some of them are dressed really, really well to

Cat Ford-Coates:

the nines, but it's fairly conservative. Others are there

Cat Ford-Coates:

and kind of like oversized sweaters. And they, they don't

Cat Ford-Coates:

really say much. Other people might be there in really kind of

Cat Ford-Coates:

bold or flashy outfits, or in name brand, like big time name

Cat Ford-Coates:

brand shoes, right? Especially for women. Those big time name

Cat Ford-Coates:

brand shoes tell you like okay, whether or not they're

Cat Ford-Coates:

conservatively dressed, or flashy dress, that shoe becomes

Cat Ford-Coates:

a status symbol. And you see, oh, okay, they value Bhutan,

Cat Ford-Coates:

right? They value the status that that brings them of

Cat Ford-Coates:

success. And you know, that white glove, top of their game

Cat Ford-Coates:

kind of person. And then you kind of say, Okay, well, this

Cat Ford-Coates:

person has status, or wants to have status, right? They're

Cat Ford-Coates:

wearing like, really crazy shoes. But this woman over here,

Cat Ford-Coates:

she's, you know, maybe she's in her 50s. And she's not really

Cat Ford-Coates:

super professionally dressed, but she's not, you know, in

Cat Ford-Coates:

sweats on the couch, either. Alright, what are their values,

Cat Ford-Coates:

and as you start to talk to these people, they will tell you

Cat Ford-Coates:

what their values are simply by what you what they ask you. And

Cat Ford-Coates:

this is really where you want to pay attention. Because the

Cat Ford-Coates:

questions that they ask you are their highest values. Does that

Cat Ford-Coates:

make sense?

Nicole York:

Yes, it does.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Okay, so if somebody says, Hey, Nicole, I'm

Cat Ford-Coates:

Cat. Hi. Nice to meet you. Gosh, how many kids? Do you have?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Three. Okay, right. But in that, very like that first five

Cat Ford-Coates:

seconds, if my first question to you is, do you have kids, right?

Cat Ford-Coates:

That means that family is probably my highest value.

Cat Ford-Coates:

That's my number one. Like, I love my kids, I want to show

Cat Ford-Coates:

you, my kids that I want to know about your kids, because that's

Cat Ford-Coates:

something that I can connect with you on. But if my first

Cat Ford-Coates:

question is, hey, you know, hi, kind of cool, I'm Cat, what do

Cat Ford-Coates:

you do? And then you would then know that my highest value is

Cat Ford-Coates:

the work that I do. That's my purpose. That's why I'm there is

Cat Ford-Coates:

I can connect with you in this setting, right? Based on

Cat Ford-Coates:

everybody does something. And what I do is really important to

Cat Ford-Coates:

me, so that's gonna be my fastest lane to connection. And

Cat Ford-Coates:

then you start reverse engineering from that space, and

Cat Ford-Coates:

say, Okay, well, if family is their highest value, then I can

Cat Ford-Coates:

connect with them on a familiar way. Like, for me, personally, I

Cat Ford-Coates:

don't have children, right. But family is one of my highest

Cat Ford-Coates:

values, right? Legacy is important. My parents mean the

Cat Ford-Coates:

world to me, so on and so forth. So you sort of determine who

Cat Ford-Coates:

that person is and say, Okay, what products or services do I

Cat Ford-Coates:

offer that would speak to somebody where family is, is

Cat Ford-Coates:

their highest values that a family portrait session? Is that

Cat Ford-Coates:

a mommy and me session? Things like that. And then you start

Cat Ford-Coates:

really getting into, okay, all right, family is the highest

Cat Ford-Coates:

value. So if somebody has family as a high value, then where,

Cat Ford-Coates:

where? Where are their pain points? What are their pain

Cat Ford-Coates:

points that you can be the solution for? Or how do you

Cat Ford-Coates:

connect them with the answers that are outside of your scope

Cat Ford-Coates:

of work? So when you start thinking about your ideal

Cat Ford-Coates:

client, it's not one specific avatar, but I encourage everyone

Cat Ford-Coates:

to say, Okay, who are the demographics that I'm targeting

Cat Ford-Coates:

based on the solution that my work provides for that pain?

Nicole York:

Okay, beautiful. So what we're doing here is we're

Nicole York:

starting really broad with things like age, sex location,

Nicole York:

with sorry, that's the joke for all the older folks who were

Nicole York:

around in the days of AOL chat rooms. Anyway, so we're starting

Nicole York:

off with sort of the broader demographics, and then we're

Nicole York:

starting to narrow down and what is the purpose of this avatar

Nicole York:

cat like when we do this, what does it actually give us and how

Nicole York:

is that going? to benefit us, when we start our marketing

Nicole York:

process.

Cat Ford-Coates:

So when you're able to start identifying who

Cat Ford-Coates:

this person is, what they do, where they spend their money,

Cat Ford-Coates:

where they spend their time, what their values are, that

Cat Ford-Coates:

allows you to connect that with the work that you're already

Cat Ford-Coates:

doing and that you want to sell. So if I have a product or a

Cat Ford-Coates:

service that I want to sell, what needs Does that meet for

Cat Ford-Coates:

these different avatars? If I go in blind, and I'm just like, I

Cat Ford-Coates:

want to show up and shoot people, right? And then all of a

Cat Ford-Coates:

sudden you realize like, oh, they want me to shoot, newborn's

Cat Ford-Coates:

God? No. Right? Then you know that that's maybe not, at least

Cat Ford-Coates:

for me. That's not the best connection. Right? But if you

Cat Ford-Coates:

meet somebody, and they're like, You know what? I have been

Cat Ford-Coates:

paying $50 for headshots for years, and you know what I've

Cat Ford-Coates:

never like, and it's always such a pain in the ass, because I

Cat Ford-Coates:

walk in the door, and I'm out in 15 minutes, and I have this

Cat Ford-Coates:

subpar thing. And it doesn't match my brand at all. And you

Cat Ford-Coates:

say, Oh, shit. Well, I do offer personal branding. And in

Cat Ford-Coates:

personal branding, it's more than just a headshot, right?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Like it's what was the tagline? Earlier in the week like?

Nicole York:

Was, so why be cookie cutter when you can be

Nicole York:

curated or something? Something like that? Yeah, she had a

Nicole York:

really good one. I can't remember what it was. But you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, that, like personal branding is is

Cat Ford-Coates:

your bread and butter. And you're really great at it. And

Cat Ford-Coates:

you tailor the sessions to the client, their brand, their brand

Cat Ford-Coates:

palette, and everything that they want to say to the world.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Like, yeah, I'm on top of it. I'm talking to everybody in

Cat Ford-Coates:

there who wants more than just a one off headshot. And I'm being

Cat Ford-Coates:

the solution to their problem, does that mean that I'm going to

Cat Ford-Coates:

run up to them and be like, Hey, I'm Cat, I'm really good at this

Cat Ford-Coates:

nice to meet, you know, I make sure I have supporting marketing

Cat Ford-Coates:

materials with me that showcase that, but I want to be in

Cat Ford-Coates:

service to them. And I want to know who I'm in service to, so

Cat Ford-Coates:

that I don't want to call, you know, wasting time talking to

Cat Ford-Coates:

the wrong demographic, because that's not true. But I know that

Cat Ford-Coates:

there are definitely fastly, and when I can identify the pain

Cat Ford-Coates:

points for the people that value what it is that I have to offer.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And I can identify them from across the room, or in within 30

Cat Ford-Coates:

seconds of a conversation, you can bet that I'm going to be at

Cat Ford-Coates:

150% in service to them before anybody says a word about I need

Cat Ford-Coates:

a photographer.

Nicole York:

Okay, so you made a really good point there. I just

Nicole York:

want to circle back to that. And maybe you can expand on well,

Nicole York:

we'll expand on it a little bit. But you said you know, you don't

Nicole York:

want to call it wasting time. But it's really interesting

Nicole York:

because like, obviously, with this in person approach, like if

Nicole York:

you're at a networking event, or something like that, making

Nicole York:

connections are never really wasted, right. But we are going

Nicole York:

to be using our understanding of these avatars, and their pain

Nicole York:

points and their pleasure points to do things like write copy for

Nicole York:

our advertisements that we're putting money behind. And if we

Nicole York:

spend our time talking to the wrong people about the wrong

Nicole York:

things, we absolutely will be wasting our time and our money.

Nicole York:

So even though I know you're being kind of like careful and

Nicole York:

gentle there about the in person stuff. But I think you have a

Nicole York:

really good point that when we look at expanding this, you

Nicole York:

know, taking this avatar and using that basically as the

Nicole York:

person we're talking to, when we do things like write copy, when

Nicole York:

we choose our advertising demographics, when we start

Nicole York:

narrowing it down to things like well, do they also like, do they

Nicole York:

like the Gucci Facebook page? Do they like, you know, Baby's

Nicole York:

first year magazine? Do they look what other things do they

Nicole York:

like that will help me target this individual? Based on what I

Nicole York:

know about them? If we're not using all the things you just

Nicole York:

mentioned about learning who this person is when we start

Nicole York:

trying to target them? Yeah, it's 100%.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Well, and another way to sort of dig into

Cat Ford-Coates:

this space is figuring out who you are, right? Where do you

Cat Ford-Coates:

spend your money? And why do you spend your money with the brands

Cat Ford-Coates:

that you do? Right, and take a look at like, Okay, I spend a

Cat Ford-Coates:

lot of money on Amazon is Le waves. My studio closet is

Cat Ford-Coates:

filled with a shit ton of Amazon, right? But I say okay,

Cat Ford-Coates:

why Amazon? Why am I going there over eBay or target or E dress

Cat Ford-Coates:

it or esos I'm going to Amazon because I want it yesterday.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Right? So the speed of delivery is important to me. And I'm

Cat Ford-Coates:

going to Amazon the the price point may not even be the

Cat Ford-Coates:

cheapest right but that speed of delivery is important to me. And

Cat Ford-Coates:

the easy access to the library of materials and pieces that I

Cat Ford-Coates:

could purchase. I know are on Amazon. All right, so if Amazon,

Cat Ford-Coates:

I'm a target client for Amazon, and I realized that's broad,

Cat Ford-Coates:

like, who doesn't use Amazon at this point, um, but they have

Cat Ford-Coates:

the variety that I'm looking for, because brands worldwide

Cat Ford-Coates:

are selling there. So it's like going to the virtual mall,

Cat Ford-Coates:

right? I don't have to get in my car and go to 16 different

Cat Ford-Coates:

places, because my time is valuable to me. I know that 75%

Cat Ford-Coates:

of the time, if I'm looking for something, I can hop on Amazon,

Cat Ford-Coates:

and in 30 seconds, it's in a cart. 30 seconds after that,

Cat Ford-Coates:

it's on its way to me, and I have it in two days. So time is

Cat Ford-Coates:

a value to me. So I'm thinking, Okay, who else might value my my

Cat Ford-Coates:

turnaround? Okay, is that somebody in the market for

Cat Ford-Coates:

personal branding? Is that somebody in business? Is that a

Cat Ford-Coates:

mom? Right? Christmas is coming up? Can I turn around that

Cat Ford-Coates:

family portrait session before Christmas? Can I deliver product

Cat Ford-Coates:

by Christmas? In eight days, nine days, something like that,

Cat Ford-Coates:

like think about where it is that you spend your money? And

Cat Ford-Coates:

why? And then you can say, all right, well, if time is a

Cat Ford-Coates:

factor, who else might time be valuable to in the services and

Cat Ford-Coates:

products that I offer that turnaround time. In other like

Cat Ford-Coates:

my fine art line, time and expediency of delivery is not at

Cat Ford-Coates:

the top of my list. Right and a fine art line where I'm going to

Cat Ford-Coates:

be spending time designing a session and curating original

Cat Ford-Coates:

product, like that's a six to eight week turnaround from start

Cat Ford-Coates:

to finish at best. So I'm not going to create marketing copy

Cat Ford-Coates:

that says anything about fast or efficient. But personal

Cat Ford-Coates:

branding, better ass personal branding, I can curate the

Cat Ford-Coates:

session for you. And I can make it one of a kind for you for

Cat Ford-Coates:

your brand. And then I can deliver those images to you

Cat Ford-Coates:

within five business days of shooting. Right? So think about

Cat Ford-Coates:

where you spend your money, and why. And then make those

Cat Ford-Coates:

correlations to the services and products that you offer. Yes,

Cat Ford-Coates:

no, if and, and then start dialing in on the people that

Cat Ford-Coates:

value those things outside of yourself. And then you can start

Cat Ford-Coates:

building those archetypes from that space.

Nicole York:

Ooh, I love that so much. Okay, and I want to poke

Nicole York:

it back a little bit on this one. Because I know, getting

Nicole York:

into this part of the nitty gritty is something that you are

Nicole York:

really passionate about. And you've talked about it several

Nicole York:

times. So obviously, we began with some of the broader

Nicole York:

categories, right. And then cat also gave us some techniques

Nicole York:

that we can use in real life to start honing in on that avatar

Nicole York:

and who these people are. So what do we do, Becca, when we

Nicole York:

start trying to get even more like, as Kat was saying, you

Nicole York:

know, we look at some of our own beliefs and behaviors and ask

Nicole York:

ourselves why? How does that actually help us? How does this

Nicole York:

what are their behaviors? What are their beliefs, actually help

Nicole York:

us find these people that

Bekka Bjorke:

I think cat's explanation of everything thus

Bekka Bjorke:

far was fantastic. And I'm looking again, you know, just

Bekka Bjorke:

kind of using yourself as a case study is a really great way to

Bekka Bjorke:

start figuring out how to think about that. So things like you

Bekka Bjorke:

know, if you were to like, where do you go get your coffee on

Bekka Bjorke:

your way to work? Are you going to go through the drive thru at

Bekka Bjorke:

McDonald's? Are you going to stop and park and go into

Bekka Bjorke:

Starbucks, like, looking at your own buying habits? And then

Bekka Bjorke:

going through even kind of those seven layers of why on why you

Bekka Bjorke:

make those decisions? Are you going to choose what's fastest?

Bekka Bjorke:

Are you going to choose what's cheapest, or even go to the

Bekka Bjorke:

place that uses like, you know? Well, I can't think of the word

Bekka Bjorke:

you know, like, where that sources there being a certain

Bekka Bjorke:

way to their coffee, are you going to go to the place that

Bekka Bjorke:

has a certain flavor, because the quality and the taste is the

Bekka Bjorke:

most important thing to you. So like looking at all those

Bekka Bjorke:

different things within your own habits. It can be anything from

Bekka Bjorke:

like your facewash to like, if you buy art for your own home,

Bekka Bjorke:

if you've ever hired an artist, you know what helps you make

Bekka Bjorke:

those decisions. So when you start considering then how other

Bekka Bjorke:

people are going to make those decisions, I think you can

Bekka Bjorke:

reverse engineer that from your product, as well. So when you

Bekka Bjorke:

look at what your product is, you look at your own personal

Bekka Bjorke:

values, like we talked about already, you know, what drives

Bekka Bjorke:

you to either want to create art or to want to create this as a

Bekka Bjorke:

business. And then try to do that reverse engineering to look

Bekka Bjorke:

at what kind of person is going to really value that product and

Bekka Bjorke:

why they're going to value that product. So really looking into

Bekka Bjorke:

those behaviors, what it was important to them, and how they

Bekka Bjorke:

spend their time how they spend their money and how they then

Bekka Bjorke:

are going to find their way to you is super, super valuable.

Bekka Bjorke:

And then also looking at how you're going to differentiate

Bekka Bjorke:

yourself from everyone else who also is out there, you know,

Bekka Bjorke:

making art and screaming into the void, you can then start

Bekka Bjorke:

looking at how that differentiation for your own art

Bekka Bjorke:

is going to apply to those different people. So you can

Bekka Bjorke:

really, you know, have a lot of value to them, and reach out to

Bekka Bjorke:

them more directly and kind of put your finger on those pain

Bekka Bjorke:

points,

Carol Gonzales:

if that makes sense.

Nicole York:

Okay, brilliant. I love where this conversation is

Nicole York:

going. So if you're just joining us today, I'm going to do kind

Nicole York:

of a quick summary of where we're at so far, and where we're

Nicole York:

going. We know we're building a business, the point of the

Nicole York:

business is add value to the market. But we have to be able

Nicole York:

to do that through our customers. They're the folks who

Nicole York:

are going to buy from us. So how do we know who they are? And how

Nicole York:

do we know how to reach them? And how do we know what to say.

Nicole York:

So in order to find our ideal client, we have a couple of

Nicole York:

options here. If we are in business for a specific purpose,

Nicole York:

like we know what value we want to add to the market, we want to

Nicole York:

create this as using the example from previous conversations. We

Nicole York:

want to create fantasy, beauty portraits for women, so we can

Nicole York:

capture their loveliness in their glory that they can have

Nicole York:

to remember for years, okay, if we're not able to do this in

Nicole York:

business, then we don't really want to be in business, this is

Nicole York:

the value we want to give to the world, then it doesn't make a

Nicole York:

lot of sense for us to go. Let me go figure out a person, and

Nicole York:

then decide what to give them right, we already know that the

Nicole York:

heart is the thing we want to give. So who wants this, we use

Nicole York:

ourselves as an example. We use other people that we meet when

Nicole York:

we talk about what we do, and we see how they respond. We use

Nicole York:

these as case studies to start building up an avatar, this

Nicole York:

avatar is the representation for the kind of person who is going

Nicole York:

to buy our goods and services. And this can be based on their

Nicole York:

pain points. So what is this person going to need our product

Nicole York:

to fix for them? Is it because they've never felt beautiful? Is

Nicole York:

it because they've outgrown the stage of their life, where we as

Nicole York:

a society, value women's beauty, and they're at a point now,

Nicole York:

where their beauty is not celebrated? Like it should be,

Nicole York:

there could be all kinds of reasons and different pain

Nicole York:

points that we could use as the basis for this avatar, we can

Nicole York:

also build this avatar off of moving toward pleasure. So who

Nicole York:

is the kind of person who is going to want to see themselves

Nicole York:

represented this way? What is it that they get from this? And

Nicole York:

then once we know those things, we can start asking ourselves

Nicole York:

the deeper questions. Well, why? Why do they believe this about

Nicole York:

themselves? Where do they spend their time and money? As Kat

Nicole York:

mentioned, what do they do that allows us to know where to find

Nicole York:

these folks? So now we know what value we want to give them. We

Nicole York:

know what problem that's going to solve or what pleasure that's

Nicole York:

going to give. That way we know how to talk to them. Now we have

Nicole York:

to find them. And these, these kind of this information that

Nicole York:

we've given ourselves allows us to figure out well, where are

Nicole York:

they going to be? If I want to put forth marketing out into the

Nicole York:

world? Where do I put it? Is this person hanging out on a

Nicole York:

political like Facebook page? What kind of things do they

Nicole York:

like? If I want to target my ads? What other brands can I use

Nicole York:

this targeting material is this somebody who likes Oh, magazine,

Nicole York:

and Gucci Is this somebody who liked first time parent

Nicole York:

magazine, and the movie, the notebook like, we can start

Nicole York:

using some of these things that we've understood about this

Nicole York:

person as we built this avatar to figure out where to go to

Nicole York:

find these people. If we know we want to target women who you

Nicole York:

know value, personal appearance, they probably have a favorite

Nicole York:

salon that they go to, they probably have a gym that they go

Nicole York:

to, they're probably a couple boutiques that they really go to

Nicole York:

because these outward appearance markers matter to them. And so

Nicole York:

when we build that avatar and we start asking ourselves these

Nicole York:

questions, we can use those things, as a way to plan out how

Nicole York:

we're going to reach out to these folks. Well, I'm going to

Nicole York:

go ahead to this local high end salon, and I'm going to offer

Nicole York:

them coupons I'm going to say you know, here's gift cards, to

Nicole York:

give to your your, you know, top tier clients, just to celebrate

Nicole York:

them and let them know that you appreciate them. It's $1,000

Nicole York:

towards a portrait session with me blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Nicole York:

Now we're using that business as a way to reach out to people.

Nicole York:

We've already pre qualified as the type of client that we want

Nicole York:

to have. So that's the reason that building these avatars is

Nicole York:

so important to us. Our marketing efforts. So I want to

Nicole York:

hear your guys's thoughts and responses. But Sam, go ahead and

Nicole York:

then we'll start asking members of the audience.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Good morning, everyone. We've had a few

Bassam Sabbagh:

discussions on avatars here. And I don't want to call them

Bassam Sabbagh:

debates but discussions and we have maybe different opinions.

Bassam Sabbagh:

And I just want to say that, for me the purpose, the real purpose

Bassam Sabbagh:

of focusing in on one avatar that's extremely detailed, is

Bassam Sabbagh:

because it allows you to have clarity in your messaging,

Bassam Sabbagh:

right? There could be, it could be that nobody in the world

Bassam Sabbagh:

exists that actually fits that avatar to a tee. But by going

Bassam Sabbagh:

into these, these demographics, and going into the details,

Bassam Sabbagh:

you're addressing various aspects of different people, or

Bassam Sabbagh:

different aspects that different people can see in that avatar.

Bassam Sabbagh:

So that when you're out there, reaching out, even though that

Bassam Sabbagh:

ideal person may not exist, people will see themselves in

Bassam Sabbagh:

your message. And we talk about where do we, where do we find

Bassam Sabbagh:

them. But it's also a matter of where they can find us. Because

Bassam Sabbagh:

even though we're focusing example, on offering this

Bassam Sabbagh:

experience to women aged between such and such, and such, and

Bassam Sabbagh:

such, some of the messaging that we create, based on that avatar

Bassam Sabbagh:

may attract men that have that one or two or three values that

Bassam Sabbagh:

are in our message. So even though we're honing in on one

Bassam Sabbagh:

avatar, people may say, Yeah, but But you know, your audience

Bassam Sabbagh:

is bigger than that. Well, absolutely. But by having that

Bassam Sabbagh:

clarity, it allows them to find you also, because they connect

Bassam Sabbagh:

with what you're saying, or one aspect of what you're saying, as

Bassam Sabbagh:

opposed to the whole avatar such.

Nicole York:

That's such a good point, Assam and I think really

Nicole York:

important to note as well. There is no rule that says you must

Nicole York:

absolutely have one avatar, if you think there are three

Nicole York:

distinct types of people then do three avatars. But, but the

Nicole York:

point is so important that the avatar gives you clarity. So you

Nicole York:

know how to talk to somebody I know the other day, we mentioned

Nicole York:

the fact that we don't all share the same definitions for the

Nicole York:

words we use. And particularly, when we have been in an industry

Nicole York:

for a while, we will fall back on commonly used jargon or words

Nicole York:

that are understood in a certain way inside the industry, that

Nicole York:

aren't necessarily understood the same way on the outside. So

Nicole York:

knowing who this person is, helps to give us an actual

Nicole York:

direction, and a kind of a baseline definition for the

Nicole York:

words that we choose to use. Because if I say it's a photo

Nicole York:

that makes you look like you're in vogue, okay, what does that

Nicole York:

mean to different people, we don't have a way to necessarily

Nicole York:

clarify that, unless we are really particularly targeting

Nicole York:

people who are passionate, sorry for the car, about that

Nicole York:

magazine, fashion, etc, etc. And then, the other thing I want to

Nicole York:

mention really quickly, is that as your business grows, and as

Nicole York:

you continue, one of the things that you want to do is look at

Nicole York:

your current customer base, and ask questions about those folks.

Nicole York:

So who are the people that have already worked with you, that

Nicole York:

have already paid you your ideal clients that are working with

Nicole York:

you now? How do they line up against those avatars? And where

Nicole York:

did they find you, the more information you can get trouble

Nicole York:

with people you've already worked with, the better you are

Nicole York:

going to be able to understand the people who are really

Nicole York:

showing up at your door. And the more you can kind of alter that

Nicole York:

avatar to fit the ideal clients you already have. So you can use

Nicole York:

your current and past success as a way to plan out your next

Nicole York:

marketing strategies and who you should Are you did on purpose?

Unknown:

Oh, no,

Cat Ford-Coates:

I wasn't. But I actually really liked that. But

Cat Ford-Coates:

some brought up. The piece about like, the ideal version of that

Cat Ford-Coates:

archetype may not exist as a real person. But it is certain

Cat Ford-Coates:

aspects that will resonate with other clients, right, whether

Cat Ford-Coates:

it's men, whether it's, you know, maybe she's a a mom, but

Cat Ford-Coates:

she's not interested in personal branding, but she loves legacy,

Cat Ford-Coates:

right? And that's important for her. But maybe status isn't her

Cat Ford-Coates:

deal, but she knows that the value of what you're bringing to

Cat Ford-Coates:

her will allow her to solve some of those pain points. And so

Cat Ford-Coates:

understanding that that messaging and how you speak to

Cat Ford-Coates:

different archetypes for the same product can be determined

Cat Ford-Coates:

by leveraging the aspects that you've created in Ideal mind.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Yeah.

Bassam Sabbagh:

And in addition to that, sometimes by having

Bassam Sabbagh:

clarity on that avatar, you can actually create sub products

Bassam Sabbagh:

that would meet that would would allow you to, you know, offer

Bassam Sabbagh:

more to these clients, I have a specific example, I talked often

Bassam Sabbagh:

about that spa that, that I did some work for. And when we did

Bassam Sabbagh:

the avatar for that luxury spa slash massage slash aesthetics

Bassam Sabbagh:

place, we said that, that that woman who's the avatar really

Bassam Sabbagh:

values her business connections, and and that's where she gets a

Bassam Sabbagh:

lot of her pleasure and an information and so on. And she

Bassam Sabbagh:

loves the networking aspect of it, which drove us to decide

Bassam Sabbagh:

that we can rent out the spa on a yearly basis for networking

Bassam Sabbagh:

events, something that the owner had never thought about before.

Nicole York:

That's so clever. I like, yeah, that's a really

Nicole York:

fantastic point. And this is a reason why mining your current

Nicole York:

customers for information on why they've chosen you why they come

Nicole York:

back to you why they refer their friends, where they found you

Nicole York:

all those kinds of things. If you can get that information out

Nicole York:

of them, man, that is a goldmine that will help direct you into

Nicole York:

how you can continue the success you currently have and how you

Nicole York:

can build upon that. Because if somebody found you through a

Nicole York:

reference on a Facebook page, well, who were the rest of the

Nicole York:

people in that community? Do they share similar ideals? How

Nicole York:

can you increase your exposure to those people? A lot of really

Nicole York:

great information to have. So before we call it friends from

Nicole York:

the audience, I want to ask if Matt and Becca, if you guys have

Nicole York:

anything you want to share where we're at so far. And then in the

Nicole York:

meantime, friends in the audience, if you have some

Nicole York:

thoughts today, on finding your ideal clients, how we can reach

Nicole York:

those folks, please raise your hand, we would love to. I think,

Matt Stagliano:

you know, I relate it to my journey. And I

Matt Stagliano:

spoke about this the other day where your voice changes over

Matt Stagliano:

time, I think this avatar changes over time as well.

Matt Stagliano:

Right. So as your business grows, as you start to become

Matt Stagliano:

interested in other things, as you move from one genre or niche

Matt Stagliano:

to another, going through this exercise is kind of cat has laid

Matt Stagliano:

it out so perfectly, I think it's important to just check in

Matt Stagliano:

every now and again, is this the work that's really stimulating

Matt Stagliano:

me, these are the people that I want to have in here. And you

Matt Stagliano:

know, don't beat your your head against the wall. If you're just

Matt Stagliano:

not feeling the type of work that you're doing change that

Matt Stagliano:

Avatara switch it up. It's not going to happen overnight. But

Matt Stagliano:

it's something that you continually refine that process

Matt Stagliano:

over and over and over until you realize that all the clients

Matt Stagliano:

that are coming through your door exactly who you want them

Matt Stagliano:

to be. So it's just you know, it's a it's a not a fast

Matt Stagliano:

process, but it's really important.

Nicole York:

Oh, I love that Matt. And I know we've mentioned

Nicole York:

a few times how our businesses a growing and living and breathing

Nicole York:

thing. And that's such a good illustration of that point.

Nicole York:

Because if you built your avatar, and you're starting to

Nicole York:

realize that most of the folks who come in based on the

Nicole York:

advertising you're using with that avatar, as a, you know,

Nicole York:

example person that you're talking to, and you don't like

Nicole York:

working with them, then maybe something needs to be altered

Nicole York:

and changed in there. And don't be afraid to change and alter

Nicole York:

that avatar as you grow. Which is why using your current

Nicole York:

clients and your current ideal clients, the ones that just were

Nicole York:

everything, when you worked with them, is such a great way to

Nicole York:

start making those tweaks. I love that map.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And also understanding too that when you

Cat Ford-Coates:

can mind from clients, you've already worked with the ones

Cat Ford-Coates:

that really jazz you up that you had so much fun working with.

Cat Ford-Coates:

They maybe they had a great sale, or maybe they had a

Cat Ford-Coates:

mediocre sale, but you had a ball. When you dial in on who

Cat Ford-Coates:

that person is and why they jazz you up. That's gonna allow you

Cat Ford-Coates:

to clarify your messaging even farther, because that energetic

Cat Ford-Coates:

frequency is the same, right? Like they adored working with

Cat Ford-Coates:

you. You loved working with them. It's obviously like a

Cat Ford-Coates:

repeat client situation. And you can tailor your marketing

Cat Ford-Coates:

messaging to reach more of those people.

Nicole York:

Absolutely. So I just thought it would be really

Nicole York:

interesting. Remember, if you're in the audience today, please

Nicole York:

feel free to raise your hand come up and join us if you have

Nicole York:

thoughts. I thought it would be really interesting to look at

Nicole York:

one product. So let's say we have Have a piece of wall art,

Nicole York:

okay, and we need to market this piece of wall art. Let's look at

Nicole York:

three different kinds of people, and how our marketing copy might

Nicole York:

change. Depending on who we're trying to sell this piece of

Nicole York:

wall art to the wall art itself is exactly the same. But the

Nicole York:

messaging that we use to sell it is going to touch different

Nicole York:

people. So let's say that the avatar of the ideal client that

Nicole York:

we want to sell this wall art to is a woman who would be

Nicole York:

traditionally considered social high status. They value

Nicole York:

appearances, they value legacy, they value family and history.

Nicole York:

But they also find it very important to present themselves

Nicole York:

their family in their home in a way that they can feel proud of

Nicole York:

that kind of maintains that social status, the the visual

Nicole York:

representation of that social status, what is a way that we

Nicole York:

might be able to talk to her specifically about putting this

Nicole York:

piece of art in her home? I would love to hear examples,

Nicole York:

what might we say guys?

Nicole York:

I'm just gonna keep being quiet. So somebody says

Cat Ford-Coates:

Sorry, I'm looking for dry shampoo. Um,

Nicole York:

that's important stuff. It so

Cat Ford-Coates:

is. Um, so if you're talking to somebody who,

Cat Ford-Coates:

like the family is a high value for them, but also being able to

Cat Ford-Coates:

present as a piece of wall art that declares legacy, that also

Cat Ford-Coates:

maybe that reminds their kids that they are loved. Right? What

Cat Ford-Coates:

are? What are the the questions you can ask them? And what are

Cat Ford-Coates:

the statements you can make about your work? Like subraces

Cat Ford-Coates:

killer at this? One day, your children will go looking for

Cat Ford-Coates:

photos of you? What will they find? Right, because that pulls

Cat Ford-Coates:

on heartstrings that touches on legacy that touches on family

Cat Ford-Coates:

heirlooms. Like all of those things. And then the wall art

Cat Ford-Coates:

itself is this beautifully curated, amazing portrait that

Cat Ford-Coates:

will stand the test of time. Right? So what is the thing? And

Cat Ford-Coates:

how do you describe it to reach these ladies?

Nicole York:

Right? Yeah, 100%. And so, I mean, I love that

Nicole York:

example. And you can think about the fact of, you know, if this

Nicole York:

is somebody who also values status, then when your kids

Nicole York:

walk, like when your kids visits? How are you going to

Nicole York:

show them you care? Like, are they going to see this

Nicole York:

beautiful, one of a kind piece of artwork that represents your

Nicole York:

love for them on the wall? What are they going to see, I mean,

Nicole York:

there's, there's so much that you could dig into there, once

Nicole York:

you know who that person is. And what they value in the piece of

Nicole York:

wall art is going to be the same. So let's keep that person

Nicole York:

in our head, that kind of high status person who values family

Nicole York:

and legacy, but also, they do value that those visible signs

Nicole York:

of status, right. And so we might mention things like the,

Nicole York:

the unique. The printer that we use, maybe this printer only

Nicole York:

uses handmade paper from etc, etc, that has all of these

Nicole York:

amazing qualities. Maybe we have a framer who, you know, builds

Nicole York:

the own frames out of the wood that they sourced from

Nicole York:

somewhere, and it's completely unique. And the engraver makes a

Nicole York:

plaque that's a one of a kind or whatever. If status is

Nicole York:

important, then we can share things about our products that

Nicole York:

will show how they will increase or maintain your status. If

Nicole York:

legacy is important that we choose to share things that

Nicole York:

explain how this product is going to continue to reinforce

Nicole York:

this legacy. So that is one folks. Okay. Let's look at a

Nicole York:

different kind of client. So let's look at a businessman who

Nicole York:

is coming up in the world. And he you know, has his sights set

Nicole York:

on the top but he's not there yet. And he, we want to sell him

Nicole York:

a piece of wall art. How do we talk to this person? What kinds

Nicole York:

of things might we mentioned this is probably somebody who

Nicole York:

has a gym membership. They probably have a pretty nice car.

Nicole York:

They're somebody who's really reaching for the future that

Nicole York:

they want. How do we talk to that person about having wall

Nicole York:

art? What are things we might say or some things we might

Nicole York:

consider.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Because I want to clarify something I'm, as

Bassam Sabbagh:

you're asking the questions I'm, I'm thinking, and maybe maybe,

Bassam Sabbagh:

maybe it's all the same. But when you talked about the first

Bassam Sabbagh:

Avatar, that woman, you talked about putting the wall art and

Bassam Sabbagh:

her home, which is an assumption that if you, if you have that

Bassam Sabbagh:

profile you make you're going to put it in your home. And my

Bassam Sabbagh:

question is, could there be other places? Well, where wall

Bassam Sabbagh:

art can be put or used by that same profile? Now, you ask a

Bassam Sabbagh:

question about a different profile. Right? And Mike, and my

Bassam Sabbagh:

thought is, you know, maybe we need to look at it both ways,

Bassam Sabbagh:

same profile, but where else? Or how else can they can they value

Bassam Sabbagh:

wall art, AND, OR, AND or set different profile, same place to

Bassam Sabbagh:

put the wall art for different place to wall, so just

Nicole York:

something? No, I love that song. I think it's

Nicole York:

really important sorry, for the cars guy, I think it's really

Nicole York:

important to mention the fact that if I'm trying to get you to

Nicole York:

put something in your home, obviously, the wording and the

Nicole York:

pain points and the pleasure points are going to be different

Nicole York:

than they are if I'm trying to get you to put something in your

Nicole York:

office. Right. So that's a really fantastic point. And, and

Nicole York:

we could talk to the same person, like you said, about

Nicole York:

different locations. But the main point here is, if we have

Nicole York:

the same product, and we want to sell it to different people, we

Nicole York:

have to speak to them where they're at, right? If we have an

Nicole York:

avatar of a businessman who is trying to come up in the world,

Nicole York:

and you know that that is important to him, this reaching

Nicole York:

for status is reaching for success. Why would he want a

Nicole York:

beautifully framed piece of wall art? What would he do with that,

Nicole York:

that would reinforce what he wants from his life? And these

Nicole York:

are the questions we have to ask ourselves. And if we were to

Nicole York:

assume a third person, let's say that this is this is a farmer,

Nicole York:

who has to his family has been working, you know, the the farm

Nicole York:

for, you know, 200 years, his family has owned this ranch, and

Nicole York:

etc, etc, that person is going to have a different language,

Nicole York:

they're going to require different things from us, the

Nicole York:

wording is going to have to fit. So the entire point of that

Nicole York:

exercise is just to show how, if we don't know who we're talking

Nicole York:

to, we don't know who they are, we don't know what they want, we

Nicole York:

don't know how to talk to them, we don't know what pain points

Nicole York:

they have, that our work is going to solve them. We don't

Nicole York:

know what pleasures they have, that we can, you know, give to

Nicole York:

them reinforced to them through the work that we're creating for

Nicole York:

them. Even when it's the exact same piece of product, if it's a

Nicole York:

piece of wall art, we're going to go through the same process

Nicole York:

for everybody. It's going to be printed, it's going to be

Nicole York:

matted, it's going to be mounted, it's going to be

Nicole York:

framed, etc, etc. Everybody's getting the same thing, but

Nicole York:

they're not getting it for the same reason. And that is what we

Nicole York:

have to understand even about the work that we create, as

Nicole York:

artists, as photographers, we're all taking photographs of

Nicole York:

people, we're all painting pictures of whatever, you are

Nicole York:

competing against every single other person who is doing the

Nicole York:

same thing you are, but the way that you reach out to folks. And

Nicole York:

the way that you offer them value, the value statement that

Nicole York:

you make to them about the work that they are going to get from

Nicole York:

you is going to be a completely. Like that's going to be unique

Nicole York:

to you and the person that you're talking to. Especially

Nicole York:

the more niche you become, the more important this becomes. So

Nicole York:

an elopement photographer who only photographs adventurous

Nicole York:

couples, they are going to talk to those people in their

Nicole York:

marketing copy in a way that is going to get rid of or turn off

Nicole York:

every single person who doesn't suit that avatar. So if if

Nicole York:

you're you know, and then the places that you reach out to

Nicole York:

them is going to be different. So you might go on places like

Nicole York:

Mountain project, you might be going in groups that are talking

Nicole York:

about local trails in the area, great hikes, wonderful camping,

Nicole York:

you might be you know, advertising in places where

Nicole York:

people are also buying things like hiking boots, I mean, these

Nicole York:

these types of conversations are going to vary so greatly

Nicole York:

depending on the person that you're talking to. So I want to

Nicole York:

make sure that we have some time as well. We've got some hands up

Nicole York:

so we have Carol and Jean today. Let's make sure that we do our

Nicole York:

best to stay on topic so that we can close everything on time

Nicole York:

because I've been I've been guilty of dragging us over time

Nicole York:

a little bit. So Carol, you had your hand up first want to hear

Nicole York:

from you. And then Jean

Carol Gonzales:

when You brought up the first person, I actually

Carol Gonzales:

had a person come to mind, a name of a person. And it goes

Carol Gonzales:

back to an earlier conversation about, you know, I mean, I know

Carol Gonzales:

her and what her likes are, and all that, and I can't relate to

Carol Gonzales:

any of them in my life, you know, she is the person I spoke

Carol Gonzales:

of briefly before, just that she was going to help me as a

Carol Gonzales:

fashion designer, and I asked her, I told her, I said, Oh,

Carol Gonzales:

good, you can help me with my attitude about rich people

Carol Gonzales:

really thinking she was someone I could learn from. Instead, I

Carol Gonzales:

put her off. And she had bought just little things from me

Carol Gonzales:

before. And things that were, you know, my painted rocks, and

Carol Gonzales:

instead of an art piece in the house, she put them in your

Carol Gonzales:

garden, you know, but I did learn a lot about her archetype

Carol Gonzales:

and how it is nothing that I can relate to. So do we also have to

Carol Gonzales:

know us when it comes to that as well, who we are comfortable

Carol Gonzales:

working with? Or we need to change who we're comfortable

Carol Gonzales:

working with? I'm not sure.

Nicole York:

That's a really fantastic question, Carol. And I

Nicole York:

would first say that it's important for us to recognize

Nicole York:

that our clients do not have to be like us, they do not need to

Nicole York:

be people that we can identify with. They just need to be

Nicole York:

people that we can empathize with and understand. So those

Nicole York:

pain points if somebody wants, if like an important part of the

Nicole York:

reason somebody is going to purchase from us is that they

Nicole York:

value nature, and the value, the the beauty and the wildness. And

Nicole York:

all of those things in my painting satisfy those needs for

Nicole York:

them. But I am somebody who values nature for its usefulness

Nicole York:

for my ability to feel better, when I'm there, these other

Nicole York:

things, we don't have to be the same kind of person, I don't

Nicole York:

need to be comfortable with them as a person to sell to them.

Nicole York:

Meaning I don't have to be able to take my life experiences and

Nicole York:

identify with that person, I do need to understand them. And I

Nicole York:

need to be able to empathize with them. And I do need to do

Nicole York:

the internal work of recognizing everybody doesn't need to be

Nicole York:

like me, for them to find value in what I do. And for me to get

Nicole York:

the pleasure of having given something good to them in their

Nicole York:

lives. And often for many of us, our customers may be wildly

Nicole York:

different. There are many artists who are kind of messy,

Nicole York:

caffeine fueled reclusive, and they're collectors are people

Nicole York:

who are jet setting around the world and everything is planned,

Nicole York:

and they've got a bazillion dollars, right. We don't have to

Nicole York:

resemble our clients, but we do have to understand them. So I

Nicole York:

think that's a really important thing to

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah, I think it's important to reinforce

Bassam Sabbagh:

something we talked about the other day of you know, is not to

Bassam Sabbagh:

fall in the trap of putting labels on people, and then based

Bassam Sabbagh:

on that label kind of make deductions as how they would

Bassam Sabbagh:

behave and how they label. Yeah, yeah, no, or specific labels,

Bassam Sabbagh:

for example, which Carol just mentioned, I'm just gonna use

Bassam Sabbagh:

her word, how rich people behave, right? Well, riches is a

Bassam Sabbagh:

relative term, right? I mean, if you're making $50,000, to

Bassam Sabbagh:

somebody who's making $15,000, you are rich, right? So that is

Bassam Sabbagh:

so so we got to be careful with labels that limit our points in

Bassam Sabbagh:

our view. And instead ask things like, okay, the word rich, you

Bassam Sabbagh:

know, rich in what rich in Adventure rich in this rich in

Bassam Sabbagh:

that, because it's not all about money. And, you know, in my

Bassam Sabbagh:

previous life, I've met many millionaires and billionaires

Bassam Sabbagh:

who buy business jets and private jets, and you'll find

Bassam Sabbagh:

all kinds of people and some people don't even consider

Bassam Sabbagh:

themselves rich. It's not about the money. It's not about, it's

Bassam Sabbagh:

about the hard work, it's about their passion, it's so just be

Bassam Sabbagh:

careful with labels is one way to start kind of diversifying

Bassam Sabbagh:

our view.

Bekka Bjorke:

In that same vein, too. I mean, again, this is just

Bekka Bjorke:

a great example of why we need to go beyond demographic, right,

Bekka Bjorke:

just the basic you know, geolocation, age, sex, socio

Bekka Bjorke:

economic status, whatever. Because that is just the surface

Bekka Bjorke:

level when we get into the deeper values for the person.

Bekka Bjorke:

That's when we can start connecting with them as Bisaya

Bekka Bjorke:

Nicole just said right, so like, even if someone isn't rich, but

Bekka Bjorke:

maybe they really value like the quality or the design of a

Bekka Bjorke:

certain product, right? Like, I have certain designer brands. I

Bekka Bjorke:

really love that I can't afford to buy all the time, but I will

Bekka Bjorke:

save and budget to afford those finer things? Because I value

Bekka Bjorke:

things that those that I can get from owning those things. So

Bekka Bjorke:

even if that then presents tonight, like a visual of me

Bekka Bjorke:

being rich, I'm not absolutely not. So again, getting into the

Bekka Bjorke:

deeper values, and why people are going to spend their money

Bekka Bjorke:

where they're going to spend their money is so much more

Bekka Bjorke:

valuable to how you connect with them than just looking at the

Bekka Bjorke:

Democrats.

Carol Gonzales:

That helps, thanks, it turns it around for

Carol Gonzales:

me. And I know what I know what she values Breakfast at

Carol Gonzales:

Tiffany's from the time she was a child, you know, she likes to

Carol Gonzales:

flaunt her wealth, and probably part of why I didn't relate to

Carol Gonzales:

her quite as much. But

Nicole York:

yeah, and you know, Carol, it's really interesting

Nicole York:

to so you know, you you mentioned a behavior she has

Nicole York:

that she likes to flaunt her wealth. And then what happens,

Nicole York:

you know, in the beginning of the conversation cat mentioned

Nicole York:

asking why, right? So looking at some of those behaviors and

Nicole York:

asking why, why does she? Why does she flaunt her wealth? Or

Nicole York:

why do you feel like she wants her? Well, there's something

Nicole York:

emotional she's getting from that act that is benefiting her

Nicole York:

in some way. And that might be because it helps her feel like

Nicole York:

she's safe and secure in the world, and that all of the hard

Nicole York:

work she's done has paid off, like there's something emotional

Nicole York:

that's going on there that she can connect to. And it could be

Nicole York:

that we have to question our assumptions sometimes as well.

Nicole York:

Right? My, this is just a quick example. And then I'll let you

Nicole York:

respond. Before we go to Jean. My mother in law has always been

Nicole York:

in a rough place financially. And then her sister and her

Nicole York:

husband are relatively well off. Not. I mean, they're, they're

Nicole York:

solidly middle class, but they're able to do things like

Nicole York:

take vacations, and go skiing and do things like that. And

Nicole York:

they're, they're generous. But my mother in law might see those

Nicole York:

acts as flaunting, right like that, that could potentially be

Nicole York:

something that she's like, well, I'm in a place where money is

Nicole York:

not number one, it's not a huge deal to me. But number two, I

Nicole York:

see that behavior is flaunting behavior, even though that's

Nicole York:

really just them enjoying the fruits of their labor, right? So

Nicole York:

it's both sometimes it's, let's figure out why the person is

Nicole York:

doing that thing, because it's the belief and the emotional,

Nicole York:

etc. That's important, not necessarily the ash. And then

Nicole York:

number two, sometimes we have to question our assumptions a

Nicole York:

little bit, because remember, we all have lenses that we look

Nicole York:

through the

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah, I think it's a, it's a good example of,

Bassam Sabbagh:

you know, the Breakfast at Tiffany's thing. I am 100% Sure,

Bassam Sabbagh:

every single one of us has the equivalent of that our favorite

Bassam Sabbagh:

place or restaurant, or that place that we go to that gives

Bassam Sabbagh:

us that same feeling of nostalgia or whatever, whatever

Bassam Sabbagh:

thing, memories it brings up. And I just want to point out the

Bassam Sabbagh:

famous line from Oprah where she says, I don't know the exact

Bassam Sabbagh:

words, but um, I still, I'm still the same person, I still

Bassam Sabbagh:

walk on the ground, but I'm just wearing more expensive shoes.

Cat Ford-Coates:

I would also like to kind of touch on the

Cat Ford-Coates:

judgment piece a little bit. And understanding that while we

Cat Ford-Coates:

might not be in the space currently, where we want to be,

Cat Ford-Coates:

but to look at what it would take to be where we want to be

Cat Ford-Coates:

and analyze if that would require that we also be wealthy

Cat Ford-Coates:

to accomplish those things. And would that wealth, make us a bad

Cat Ford-Coates:

person? So like, Carol, specifically, you've mentioned

Cat Ford-Coates:

how like you would love to be able to retire and move across

Cat Ford-Coates:

the country with your husband and give him a fire comfortable?

Cat Ford-Coates:

What would that require financially of you to be able to

Cat Ford-Coates:

accomplish and would that would that dollar amount mean that you

Cat Ford-Coates:

were then wealthy? And if you were then wealthy, does that

Cat Ford-Coates:

automatically mean that that movement and that living

Cat Ford-Coates:

comfortably makes you a bad person or means that you will

Cat Ford-Coates:

then be flaunting your wealth?

Carol Gonzales:

Got it thanks so much. I want to leave room for

Carol Gonzales:

Jean I saw

Nicole York:

absolutely. Thank you for asking the question. I

Nicole York:

know it's not always easy, but this is such important stuff to

Nicole York:

talk about because I think it's things we can all identify with

Nicole York:

a different areas. So

Unknown:

Oh, Carol, I will always yield to you because you

Unknown:

are on the verge of taking over the clothing market. So i Good

Unknown:

morning, everybody. I just I've been listening this week. been

Unknown:

down in Colombia. I haven't been able to be involved as much but

Unknown:

I've been I've been paying attention and you know, there's

Unknown:

something that I write right around the time You know, Becca

Unknown:

says to, you know, to also kind of look away from demographics,

Unknown:

unfortunately, my my idea here is kind of centered on

Unknown:

demographics. So Becca, I apologize for that. But I, I

Unknown:

honestly believe that unknowingly or maybe, maybe you

Unknown:

guys are aware of this, and I'm just late to the party. But I

Unknown:

think that this group this week has stumbled on a billion dollar

Unknown:

idea. And Nicole, you asked the question about, you know, how do

Unknown:

we find people that want that would want Walmart. And there's,

Unknown:

I want to go back to something that I believe it was cat that

Unknown:

mentioned earlier in the week, it was just a term of phrase, it

Unknown:

was she was actually talking about something else. But she

Unknown:

just threw this off the cuff. And it impacted me so much that

Unknown:

I mean, I even back channel BISAZZA about it. And I was

Unknown:

like, oh my god, this is such a great idea. But it was the the

Unknown:

idea of a heritage print. Now, I know we talked a lot about

Unknown:

legacy prints and legacy photoshoots. In the stepmother.

Unknown:

We've also talked a lot in the room about the importance of

Unknown:

words and how words mean different things are different

Unknown:

people. I think a lot of people consider legacy and heritage to

Unknown:

be sort of in the same family. But it said something completely

Unknown:

different to me when I heard the word heritage. And the reason is

Unknown:

because among my 50,000 different hobbies that I have,

Unknown:

one of the things that I'm really, really interested in his

Unknown:

genealogy. And so I'm making the connection between what cat

Unknown:

recommended are mentioned as heritage prints. And by using

Unknown:

that word, what would it occurs to me is I Googled this, I did

Unknown:

some research on it, because I was curious, I did not realize

Unknown:

this, but the genealogy market in the United States is a $3

Unknown:

billion market. And it's expected to go to 6 billion by

Unknown:

by 2026. That is just phenomenal to me. And what that means is

Unknown:

that there are all these people that are spending this money

Unknown:

trying to figure out where they came from. And at the end of

Unknown:

that journey, what most of us end up with is, you know, a

Unknown:

couple of, you know, scanned copies of some old first

Unknown:

certificates and a Scrap album that we might have it all put

Unknown:

in. But wouldn't it be amazing, if once we make the connection

Unknown:

to what our heritage really is, who our ancestors were, if we

Unknown:

had some kind of a portrait that depicted us in that environment.

Unknown:

And that reminded me this week of how important it is to have a

Unknown:

story attached to something that you're that you're putting out

Unknown:

the Mary patent project that I want to work on, you know, all

Unknown:

of that is involved in, how are we telling the story, the stuff

Unknown:

that we talked about that whole month about visual literacy? How

Unknown:

can we put all that into play, to tell the story of where I

Unknown:

come from, and then, and then output that as a heritage print

Unknown:

that someone can hang on their wall. And why not because I want

Unknown:

to look at myself every day, but because that becomes an heirloom

Unknown:

that gets handed down as a visual throughout my family to

Unknown:

show where our people came from where we came from. And I just I

Unknown:

just think that that is something that is globally

Unknown:

universally desired around the world. And I think it's a I

Unknown:

think it's a great idea. And beside them, we'll understand

Unknown:

why it's ironic that I stumbled across this amazing billion

Unknown:

dollar idea at this particular point in my life. But if

Unknown:

somebody else runs with this, I just ask that you get a private

Unknown:

jet.

Bassam Sabbagh:

To help you out, I just want to point out one of

Bassam Sabbagh:

us Sue Bryce members and Kat please help me with her name. If

Bassam Sabbagh:

I don't pronounce it, right, but she has one of the podcasts with

Bassam Sabbagh:

Nicki, that you may want to go back and you probably already

Bassam Sabbagh:

listened to it. Her name is Juana is that a great way to

Bassam Sabbagh:

pronounce it get lapuan So Mike wanna read does exactly what

Bassam Sabbagh:

you're talking about in terms of her portraiture being 100%,

Bassam Sabbagh:

heritage type, prints and wall art and photos. So you may want

Bassam Sabbagh:

to look her

Unknown:

up. So I had a great idea. That's good.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Like every great idea somebody is already doing

Bassam Sabbagh:

it, my friend but that doesn't mean there's no right

Nicole York:

or wrong, especially when it's something

Nicole York:

you're passionate about and listening to the way that you

Nicole York:

were speaking about it clearly. It's something you would care

Nicole York:

about. And that's one of the important ingredients I think in

Nicole York:

in really selling something well is it has to be something that

Nicole York:

matters to you. So as we are at the end of the hour today, we

Nicole York:

are ending this part of our discussion on business on

Nicole York:

mastering the business of art the artists forge MBA, I'm

Nicole York:

talking about marketing and how we find our ideal clients, how

Nicole York:

we reach out to them, how do we speak to them and when Are they?

Nicole York:

What kind of behaviors do they have? What beliefs? Do they have

Nicole York:

that lead them to those places? And how does understanding those

Nicole York:

things help us reach out to those folks and connect who they

Nicole York:

are and what they need and what they want to what we sell. And

Nicole York:

then making sure that we keep in mind, every single one of us has

Nicole York:

got biases, we have a unique worldview, we have a really

Nicole York:

particular lens that we see the world through. And sometimes in

Nicole York:

order to reach the people who love what we do, we have to

Nicole York:

confront some of those ideas. I know I have had to do it, I

Nicole York:

think we all do, at some point have to look and go. Alright, I

Nicole York:

recognize number one, that if somebody tried to get me to buy

Nicole York:

what I sell people, I wouldn't buy it, guys, I am not my ideal

Nicole York:

client. I'm not my ideal client. And that is okay. Because I

Nicole York:

understand what it is that they need. I know what they're coming

Nicole York:

to me for. I care about providing it to them. And I care

Nicole York:

about the fact that I'm able to solve the problem that they have

Nicole York:

the reason that they're coming to me. So let's just make sure

Nicole York:

that we confront those things within ourselves. We do our best

Nicole York:

to understand and empathize with the people we're working with,

Nicole York:

the better we understand them, the better we're going to be

Nicole York:

able to speak and reach out to them speak their language, etc.

Nicole York:

Don't forget to mine your current ideal customers for

Nicole York:

information as much as you can. And this does not always have to

Nicole York:

be like, hey, you know, you worked with me? Can you fill out

Nicole York:

the survey, sometimes that works, I don't know, if y'all

Nicole York:

fill those things out, I don't when I'm done, I want to be

Nicole York:

done. I'm not interested in continuing to engage. But you

Nicole York:

can do that during the process. You can ask those questions. If

Nicole York:

you speak in person, you can, you know, give answers. A lot of

Nicole York:

folks pay attention to the pay attention to your website, you

Nicole York:

are able to tell where folks are coming from and what devices

Nicole York:

they use. There's a lot of great information there as well. So

Nicole York:

the more information you can get from those folks that tell you

Nicole York:

who your ideal client already is, why they come to you what

Nicole York:

they want from you what they're getting all that stuff, the

Nicole York:

better. And then track everything, track everything,

Nicole York:

keep that information, make sure that you get the numbers so that

Nicole York:

you know, because when you're testing, test everything, that's

Nicole York:

another thing when you're testing, you have that

Nicole York:

information, you have those numbers, you have the

Nicole York:

statistics, you know what works where. So keep that stuff.

Nicole York:

Alright. Thanks to everybody who was here today. I appreciate you

Nicole York:

guys. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and your wisdom. And if

Nicole York:

you have not already, but you want to the application for the

Nicole York:

artist forge scholarship provided by cat board codes and

Nicole York:

until you unforgettable is currently up on the Facebook

Nicole York:

page, you do have to be signed into your Google account. But go

Nicole York:

in there, you can fill that out if you would like to apply for

Nicole York:

that scholarship you have until December 31 To get an

Nicole York:

application to be considered for the scholarship. So do that if

Nicole York:

you want to and you haven't already. In the meantime, have a

Nicole York:

fantastic weekend. Go make amazing things. We'll see

Nicole York:

everybody for the continued business discussion starting

Nicole York:

Monday morning, bright and early at 7am Mountain Standard Time.

Nicole York:

That is 6am for the west coast at 9am for the East Coast. Have

Nicole York:

a great weekend and we'll see you then.

Matt Stagliano:

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

Matt Stagliano:

discussion moderated by all of us at the artists Forge. We hope

Matt Stagliano:

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

Matt Stagliano:

episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit

Matt Stagliano:

the artist forge.com Go make something incredible

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About the Podcast

Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge
How to Critique Art
Learn how mindset, creativity, and visual literacy will help you think like an artist so you can create work you love and build a career that matters; bridging the gap between technique and art.

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Nicole York