Episode 2

full
Published on:

27th Dec 2021

How to Interpret Critique: Becoming a Better Artist

It's not always easy to receive critique, but hearing what people think and feel when they see our art is critical to growing as an artist. In this episode of Morning Walk, the members of The Artist's Forge talk about how to receive critique and grow from it.

Transcript
Win:

Hi,

Matt Stagliano:

this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

Matt Stagliano:

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

Matt Stagliano:

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

Matt Stagliano:

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

Matt Stagliano:

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

Matt Stagliano:

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

Matt Stagliano:

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

Matt Stagliano:

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

Matt Stagliano:

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

Matt Stagliano:

us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.

Nicole York:

Alright, Joe, welcome to Morning walk, and

Nicole York:

photo talk. I hope everybody is doing wonderfully today, I hope

Nicole York:

you went and made amazing things yesterday. And I have to say,

Nicole York:

I'm blown away by the critiques that everyone is giving in the

Nicole York:

Facebook group, and the level and the skill of work and

Nicole York:

feedback that's going on in there. I'm sorry, I haven't been

Nicole York:

in as much I had one of those wild days yesterday that just

Nicole York:

doesn't allow you to partake or participate. But it will be back

Nicole York:

in there today. So I can't wait to start giving some thoughts.

Nicole York:

Which leads us right into the topic of today's conversation.

Nicole York:

So we began the week talking about the importance of

Nicole York:

critique. And then yesterday we talked about receiving critique

Nicole York:

and the day before about giving it so we've kind of really

Nicole York:

covered most of the bases with critique. And this is going to

Nicole York:

be just pulling everything together, making sure we put a

Nicole York:

neat little bow on it, talking about how we feel when we

Nicole York:

receive critique some of the things that we've personally

Nicole York:

been able to do that allow us to get the most out of critique.

Nicole York:

And then I would love to hear from anybody who has received a

Nicole York:

critique so far in the group, how are you finding the

Nicole York:

experience, particularly when we've been encouraged to really

Nicole York:

dig deep to use a lot of what we have understood about visual

Nicole York:

literacy, and how has it felt to kind of dig into those images to

Nicole York:

pull them apart and be able to give the most helpful feedback

Nicole York:

that we can. So I can't wait to hear from you guys about that.

Nicole York:

And I want to open this up, of course, to the mods this

Nicole York:

morning. And hear what your experience has been so far,

Nicole York:

because you shared some pretty incredible images of Assam and

Nicole York:

cat. And

Bassam Sabbagh:

I'd love to hear what your experience has been

Bassam Sabbagh:

getting and giving the feedback so far.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Well, my I guess my feedback is more on giving feedback. And I

Bassam Sabbagh:

just want to say that I find I found myself walking on

Bassam Sabbagh:

eggshells doing giving feedback so that I make sure I don't

Bassam Sabbagh:

break Matt's rules. You know, it's like,

Bassam Sabbagh:

but it does make you think, you know, a little bit more

Bassam Sabbagh:

profoundly, maybe stop and think about how I should approach this

Bassam Sabbagh:

subject before I give the feedback so that you know that

Bassam Sabbagh:

the I say it's Matt's Matt's rules, but it's really

Bassam Sabbagh:

everything we've discussed, it really helps you kind of pause

Bassam Sabbagh:

and say what's the best way to approach this subject? And and

Bassam Sabbagh:

make the point without without being? What's the word? Sorry,

Bassam Sabbagh:

threatening or unkind, or so on. So that was interesting to

Bassam Sabbagh:

walk on eggshells as you do it.

Nicole York:

Yeah, it is. And for those who weren't here, at

Nicole York:

all, over the last couple of days, one of the things that we

Nicole York:

mentioned, we asked basically, what is something we should keep

Nicole York:

in mind when we are giving critique, and we started really

Nicole York:

broad, and then kind of narrowed it down to specifics. And very

Nicole York:

broadly, Matt said, that he always asks himself, is it true

Nicole York:

is it kind isn't necessary? And using that as a kind of

Nicole York:

framework to approach how am I going to help this photographer,

Nicole York:

you know, walk away with a better image, or get closer to

Nicole York:

what they want to create. And using that as the first criteria

Nicole York:

is the thing I want to say kind necessary and true.

Nicole York:

Definitely puts you in the framework to be able to

Nicole York:

communicate something effectively. Because as we all

Nicole York:

know, if we come in guns blazing, without regard for how

Nicole York:

the person is going to receive what we have to say, then

Nicole York:

obviously, they may become defensive. They might, just

Nicole York:

from the internal place of this is my work and I care about it

Nicole York:

may shut off everything we have to say without ever considering

Nicole York:

it, which then of course, becomes a waste of their time

Nicole York:

and seeking the critique from us and a waste of our time and

Nicole York:

giving them a critique that they're not going to use. And so

Nicole York:

just all in all, that idea of positioning yourself from a

Nicole York:

place of kindness. It's just a really great place to start. So

Nicole York:

I'll be curious to hear about Assam, in keeping that in mind,

Nicole York:

when you looked at the final critique that you gave someone?

Nicole York:

Did you feel like beginning with those criteria actually

Nicole York:

strengthened your ability to give like a critique somebody

Nicole York:

will be able to use?

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. I mean,

Bassam Sabbagh:

you read them back and you see the flow. And, you know, I, I'm

Bassam Sabbagh:

an impatient guy, I tend to get to the point, usually with

Bassam Sabbagh:

everything I do. So reading them back and looking at say, Hey,

Bassam Sabbagh:

listen to it does, it did sound like you set it up, like you

Bassam Sabbagh:

congratulated them, if they you know, somebody's proud of having

Bassam Sabbagh:

their picture, I can't remember who it was, I'm sorry, but

Bassam Sabbagh:

having their picture, I think it was Peter, on a cover up of a

Bassam Sabbagh:

newspaper. So you congratulate them on that. That's a good way

Bassam Sabbagh:

to start. Right. And then you can get into the the actual

Bassam Sabbagh:

critique. The other thing that I that I found is that, you know,

Bassam Sabbagh:

often some, some people commented before me, and and I

Bassam Sabbagh:

have nothing of value to add. And I could have just not

Bassam Sabbagh:

commented, but I just said, Hey, I have nothing of value to add,

Bassam Sabbagh:

the critique is as fine as it is and, and give a compliment on a

Bassam Sabbagh:

picture or ask a question and just be engaged, regardless of

Bassam Sabbagh:

whether you have a critique or not.

Nicole York:

Yeah, that's really interesting as well thinking

Nicole York:

about it from the perspective of when we have a chance to see

Nicole York:

those other critiques. And that's something that we haven't

Nicole York:

talked about yet, when it comes to critiquing and a group and I

Nicole York:

know that this is something the ladies of the photographers,

Nicole York:

roundtable experiences we were doing group critiques was,

Nicole York:

sometimes one of us would say, you know, exactly the thing that

Nicole York:

the other had in mind, which could make it really difficult

Nicole York:

to feel like you were actually contributing to the whole

Nicole York:

experience. And we found that sometimes the longer we went,

Nicole York:

the more we found new things to talk about. And other times, we

Nicole York:

had to do exactly what you did, and just say, You know what this

Nicole York:

is, this is fantastic. And my, my colleague gave you

Nicole York:

everything, but you know, well done and best of luck in the

Nicole York:

future. So, yeah, it's it's an interesting dynamic that you

Nicole York:

have to think about when you're in that position with group

Nicole York:

critiques.

Bassam Sabbagh:

There's one phrase that I kind of copied and

Bassam Sabbagh:

pasted often. And that is, I agree with Erica. Because Erica

Bassam Sabbagh:

was so kind.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Yes, true.

Nicole York:

Erica gives such great critiques to and you can

Nicole York:

tell I love how in her responses, you can, you can

Nicole York:

still tell the warmness and her voices. She's such a warm

Nicole York:

person.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Well, and but some I really liked how you

Cat Ford-Coates:

would ask questions like on the image that I posted, it was, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, like, I don't really have anything to add, but what might

Cat Ford-Coates:

you have done differently if you had chosen a different

Cat Ford-Coates:

intention? Right? Like, it was an image that I created around

Cat Ford-Coates:

like, okay, let's constrain let's not used all the things.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And I still feel like I use too much, right. But you asking the

Cat Ford-Coates:

question about like, well, what would you have done differently?

Cat Ford-Coates:

If you hadn't put those limit limitations on on the

Cat Ford-Coates:

experience? And that made me think like, oh, what would I

Cat Ford-Coates:

have done differently? Like, okay, I probably would have

Cat Ford-Coates:

changed this lighting setup, and I definitely would take off the

Cat Ford-Coates:

jewel things. But I really liked how that kept me thinking more

Cat Ford-Coates:

so about, well, how would I elevate this image? differently?

Bassam Sabbagh:

Well, yeah, and it's about creating

Bassam Sabbagh:

conversation. I mean, you could have just said, thank you. I

Bassam Sabbagh:

mean, I could have asked the question or made a comment. And

Bassam Sabbagh:

you could say, Thank you, as opposed to getting engaged into

Bassam Sabbagh:

a conversation about it, wherever, wherever it leads. And

Bassam Sabbagh:

I guess it goes with what you said, Nicole, the longer you go,

Bassam Sabbagh:

talking about an image, the more you discover things, right. So

Bassam Sabbagh:

how do you as a how do you how do you kind of keep that

Bassam Sabbagh:

conversation going without just giving like a fix Nick's fix

Bassam Sabbagh:

this or wanting to fix also fix this? Oh, why don't you also do

Bassam Sabbagh:

this, you know, just a create a conversation.

Nicole York:

You just said something I think is really

Nicole York:

important for some that can become a stumbling block for a

Nicole York:

lot of us when we're giving critique is we have this feeling

Nicole York:

that a critique means we are finding everything was wrong

Nicole York:

with the image and then telling somebody how to fix it. And if

Nicole York:

you go into photography groups, you will often see that this

Nicole York:

kind of becomes the default all of the responses are like, a

Nicole York:

nice job, but this is wrong, and this is wrong. And if you want

Nicole York:

to fix it, you can do this. And that's not always the case. And

Nicole York:

it shouldn't really be approached from the perspective

Nicole York:

of, well, you know, how do I tell this person how to fix all

Nicole York:

of these things? It really also should be how do I respond to

Nicole York:

this image and why? Because that also gives the person who is

Nicole York:

sharing the image, a really great look into whether or not

Nicole York:

they've achieved what they wanted to achieve, which is why

Nicole York:

we talked about starting with, well, how does this image make

Nicole York:

you feel like what is your first initial gut reaction to this

Nicole York:

image, that way the person can know like for Cat, cat shared

Nicole York:

such an emotional, like a really charged powerful self portrait,

Nicole York:

if you were to look at that image and be like, Man, this

Nicole York:

just makes me want to go skipping off through a field of

Nicole York:

flowers and eat strawberries and cheese in the sunshine. And cat

Nicole York:

was saying, Okay, well, you know, those feelings were

Nicole York:

certainly not my intention. Like, that's interesting. But I

Nicole York:

was hoping, you know, for this kind of response, or I was

Nicole York:

hoping to connect to these kinds of feelings when I made the

Nicole York:

images, then, obviously, that is really fantastic information for

Nicole York:

her to have. And not just, you know, here's something that you

Nicole York:

can fix. So being able also for us to share what we felt about

Nicole York:

something, why we think like, what is it about the image that

Nicole York:

is contributing to that feeling. And then also, those other

Nicole York:

things that we mentioned, you know, I can see the, the

Nicole York:

contrast is really working to pull the eye over here in this

Nicole York:

use of repetition is really making the image feel like it

Nicole York:

has a rhythm, and it's, you know, etc. So the more we can

Nicole York:

give feedback, the more open the other person's eyes can become,

Nicole York:

to how their choices have contributed to the overall

Nicole York:

feeling of the image. It's not just here, go fix all of this

Nicole York:

stuff. So I'm really glad that you brought that up, because I

Nicole York:

think it's I think it's such an important thing for us to keep

Nicole York:

in mind when we're getting critique. I know. Oh, go ahead.

Nicole York:

And

Matt Stagliano:

Nicole, you know, one of the things that I

Matt Stagliano:

wanted to say, and I wanted to go back to the beginning of

Matt Stagliano:

Assam statement about the kind necessary and true for me, what

Matt Stagliano:

I found is that the necessary is the hardest part. Right? It's

Matt Stagliano:

not being kind, I think we're generally kind. The truth is

Matt Stagliano:

always what our truth is, but the necessity of it is the thing

Matt Stagliano:

where if we're being asked for critique, we almost feel like we

Matt Stagliano:

have to say something. But if there's nothing to say, there's

Matt Stagliano:

nothing to say, very much like you talked about with you know,

Matt Stagliano:

if someone else nails it, there's nothing else to say it's

Matt Stagliano:

not necessary for you to include that. So many of us feel the

Matt Stagliano:

need to absolutely say something when we're asked. And a lot of

Matt Stagliano:

times with a little bit of thought, you don't have to say

Matt Stagliano:

that and you can apply that to relationships, you can apply

Matt Stagliano:

that to critique, you can apply that to anything, a lot of times

Matt Stagliano:

you don't have to say anything. I know it's ironic, as I ramble

Matt Stagliano:

on, and on and on. Most of my words are not necessary. But in

Matt Stagliano:

the realm of critique. You know, a lot of times when we're

Matt Stagliano:

looking at an image, we could say something about color, or

Matt Stagliano:

shadow, or storytelling or whatnot. But if it's really not

Matt Stagliano:

there, and it's not necessary, and it's not going to add

Matt Stagliano:

anything to this person's approach to the image, then just

Matt Stagliano:

don't say it at all. It's that easy.

Nicole York:

Yeah, so true. And also, along that line of

Nicole York:

thought, when we're asking ourselves, is this necessary? I

Nicole York:

think that's where cat's point from the other day also comes

Nicole York:

in, because we have to ask ourselves, what's the purpose of

Nicole York:

this image and is the feedback I want to give necessary to help

Nicole York:

this person, you know, reach, reach that place. And that's

Nicole York:

where this context becomes so important, and why I asked

Nicole York:

everybody to give just a little bit of information about the

Nicole York:

image when they were sharing. Because if your goal is to get

Nicole York:

on a magazine cover, well, there's some things that we

Nicole York:

probably should talk about, that we may not have to worry about,

Nicole York:

if we're talking about, you know, a portrait or a piece of

Nicole York:

street photography. So the necessary will change depending

Nicole York:

on the context, right.

Bassam Sabbagh:

It also changes depending on timing, it may be,

Bassam Sabbagh:

it may be necessary, but this is not the right time to talk about

Bassam Sabbagh:

it, depending on the context you're in. Right? You may want

Bassam Sabbagh:

to for a perfect example, but the timing of doing publicly on

Bassam Sabbagh:

Facebook may not be right, you may want to do it on a different

Bassam Sabbagh:

day in a different in on a private message as an example,

Bassam Sabbagh:

or when the conversation comes up about something else if you

Bassam Sabbagh:

have a relationship with that person. So yeah, the timing is

Bassam Sabbagh:

also important.

Nicole York:

Yeah, absolutely. It's crazy how much there is to

Nicole York:

consider in this process. And I know sometimes when we talk

Nicole York:

about these subjects, and we break them down into pieces, it

Nicole York:

can be easy to all of a sudden feel overwhelmed with how much

Nicole York:

there is to consider. But just remember that most of this is

Nicole York:

the same as anything else we do. So much of it happens without

Nicole York:

conscious thought so much of it happens just in the regular flow

Nicole York:

of approaching these things. And so what we need to do in

Nicole York:

situations like this, where we're really breaking something

Nicole York:

down is just latch on to the stuff that we recognize applies

Nicole York:

because you may always be kind when you're giving feedback, but

Nicole York:

you've never really asked yourself before is this

Nicole York:

necessary, right? You may always be as truthful as you can. But

Nicole York:

sometimes you can be very blunt and you haven't really

Nicole York:

considered your wording very much. And so there are times

Nicole York:

when you say, Okay, I really want to pay attention to the

Nicole York:

fact Am I making this as palatable for the person as

Nicole York:

possible? So it's interesting how variable everything happens

Nicole York:

to be given the circumstance. But what I think is so valuable

Nicole York:

about these conversations is that we get to build a framework

Nicole York:

for how we approach the subject that allows us to be not only

Nicole York:

effective at helping people but effective at learning long term.

Nicole York:

So that's kind of the next question I want to ask you all

Nicole York:

is, as you've been giving these critiques, and kind of forced to

Nicole York:

slow down and break these image down these images down, given

Nicole York:

the fact that we just spent a month talking about visual

Nicole York:

literacy. And as you're reading the critiques from other members

Nicole York:

of the artists Forge, have you guys felt like you've learned

Nicole York:

something from the process?

Nicole York:

Don't everybody all stand up at once?

Bassam Sabbagh:

I mean, yeah, the obvious answer is, is yes. I

Bassam Sabbagh:

find I'm, I mean, I'm even like you said, this is this applies

Bassam Sabbagh:

to everything we do in life, right, and how we have

Bassam Sabbagh:

conversations with people. And, and I do, I noticed, even in the

Bassam Sabbagh:

last week, I do a bit of coaching, as I said, as part of

Bassam Sabbagh:

my consulting business. And I've had a couple of sessions this

Bassam Sabbagh:

week, where I consciously thought of what we learned in

Bassam Sabbagh:

terms of critique, and what you know, these these column

Bassam Sabbagh:

guidelines or rules that we kind of put for each other, I find

Bassam Sabbagh:

I'm applying them in my everyday life and proven through these

Bassam Sabbagh:

couple of sessions that I had this week. So yeah, I, you know,

Bassam Sabbagh:

I like to hear from others and not in our friends about how

Bassam Sabbagh:

they, you know, see that so.

Nicole York:

Yeah, absolutely, we'll be we'll be pulling folks

Nicole York:

up and Erica had her hand up earlier. So if, if you're still

Nicole York:

interested in coming up, we're just about to the halfway point.

Nicole York:

So we'll be grabbing everybody. But I would love to hear Matt

Nicole York:

cat Becca, like how have you guys felt about learning through

Nicole York:

this experience giving critique and then seeing what other

Nicole York:

people are sharing in the group as well.

Matt Stagliano:

So Admittedly, I have not been as active in the

Matt Stagliano:

group just because of my schedule, the past couple of

Matt Stagliano:

days, my goal was to get in there today and tomorrow, and

Matt Stagliano:

not only submit some of my own images, I have been scanning

Matt Stagliano:

through some of the critiques that I've seen from besom. And

Matt Stagliano:

the feedback from Erica and I've scanned through the images, I

Matt Stagliano:

just have not gone in and done it yet, from what I've seen, and

Matt Stagliano:

the way that people are providing it, what an incredible

Matt Stagliano:

resource this is starting to become. So I was really on board

Matt Stagliano:

with what I was reading, I think everybody is taking the the

Matt Stagliano:

correct approach to it, and not doing the typical photography

Matt Stagliano:

for them. This sucks, you need to add more light. And I think

Matt Stagliano:

by taking that approach, we're all going to learn a little bit

Matt Stagliano:

more. So my plan was to dive in today and tomorrow and

Matt Stagliano:

participate a little bit more than I have so far.

Nicole York:

But I man, I can't wait to see what you share. And

Nicole York:

I would absolutely agree with you. I think having gone through

Nicole York:

the experience of the last month or so and then being able to

Nicole York:

approach critique through that lens. You know, people sneeze on

Nicole York:

my boy, there's something to there's something to wake you up

Nicole York:

in the morning. But yeah, having gone through that experience,

Nicole York:

and then giving critique through that lens has really lent a

Nicole York:

depth and richness to the critiques that is is kind of

Nicole York:

amazing. So I've, I've been pretty, like mildly impressed by

Nicole York:

everything that's been shared so far. Before we start bringing

Nicole York:

folks up, pick up a song, do you guys have anything else you want

Nicole York:

to add? I really,

Cat Ford-Coates:

you know, appreciate the the point about

Cat Ford-Coates:

pulling in the visual literacy components that we have been

Cat Ford-Coates:

discussing, because I think it's one thing to talk about them,

Cat Ford-Coates:

right and to sort of take in the information. But it's another

Cat Ford-Coates:

thing to reflect on that information while you're in

Cat Ford-Coates:

motion and in shooting. And then carrying that into a critique

Cat Ford-Coates:

space. Because it's sort of building on itself, right? Like

Cat Ford-Coates:

there are some things that you think you might inherently

Cat Ford-Coates:

understand. And then when you really sort of break down the

Cat Ford-Coates:

construct, go, oh, okay, that's cool. And really start to lean

Cat Ford-Coates:

in on those pieces that you are absorbing right as you create

Cat Ford-Coates:

your own work. And then as you turn to give critique to see

Cat Ford-Coates:

things through I don't know, with my clarity that I think is

Cat Ford-Coates:

really powerful. So I've been enjoying that over the last few

Cat Ford-Coates:

weeks, and I haven't shot a ton. Just because I've been traveling

Cat Ford-Coates:

so much. But I'm, I'm excited to see where that that growth comes

Cat Ford-Coates:

into play.

Nicole York:

Absolutely, me too. And it's cool. And I love that

Nicole York:

you mentioned, you know, the times when visual literacy and

Nicole York:

our understanding of it starts to have an effect. And it's

Nicole York:

cool, because we can take it, we can go on the whole journey from

Nicole York:

like, pre production, all the way through shooting, and then

Nicole York:

finally ending and critique before we share. And then

Nicole York:

interestingly enough, which is why we decided to take, you

Nicole York:

know, to take this journey now is we can also go in that

Nicole York:

opposite approach, like you mentioned, and we can begin

Nicole York:

exercising some of those muscles through the critiques before we

Nicole York:

even go into shoot, because now we have those real world

Nicole York:

examples that we've found, just by taking the time to be with an

Nicole York:

image for a little bit. Oh, man, I can see how you know, in this

Nicole York:

frame, the weight of the different things included in the

Nicole York:

frame is really making this composition work or whatever it

Nicole York:

is, you know, that you happen to see, that's related to

Nicole York:

everything we've learned. So it's cool that we can actually

Nicole York:

start to integrate and actualize some of these artistic

Nicole York:

principles, as we're critiquing. And then hopefully also carry

Nicole York:

that over so that it starts to become more like second nature

Nicole York:

in nature when we're actually working.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Exactly. Yeah, very cool.

Nicole York:

So fun. Back, do you have anything to add this

Nicole York:

morning, before we open up and have our friends come up and

Nicole York:

share their experiences so far? Just quietly, listening,

Nicole York:

observing, sorry, I'm kind of absent this week. No worries, no

Nicole York:

worries, lady, you have a lot on your plate. So I just want to

Nicole York:

make sure we don't run along without you. Alright, y'all. So

Nicole York:

you've heard a little bit from the moderators on how we have

Nicole York:

experienced this process. So far with you all in the group,

Nicole York:

seeing everything that's happening, being able to start

Nicole York:

breaking down some of these images actualizing, on our

Nicole York:

experience with visual literacy, and how that plays into how

Nicole York:

these images are being critiqued. And you know what

Nicole York:

we're learning from the process. So it's time to hear from you

Nicole York:

guys, we'd love to have you raise your hands come up, share

Nicole York:

what your experience has been so far, even if you've learned

Nicole York:

something just through just through seeing what everyone

Nicole York:

else has done and shared. But also through your experience. I

Nicole York:

really can't wait to hear your thoughts. So Erika, Good

Nicole York:

morning, Miss lady.

Erika:

Good morning, I was kind of chuckling with, with what

Erika:

Assam said, Really, my goal was to try to get in there and

Erika:

critique things as quickly as I could. So I wasn't influenced by

Erika:

other people's critiques. I mean, so the first round I, or

Erika:

the first evening, I guess, I tried to do that and look at

Erika:

everything with fresh eyes. And then I think the next night, I

Erika:

was like, the last person to go through. And so and I think

Erika:

there's a definite difference when you when you read other

Erika:

people's critiques, and then you, you know, go in and try to

Erika:

critique yourself because it does, you already know what

Erika:

other people are seeing. So that's where your eye goes

Erika:

first. So I definitely found that and the other thing I

Erika:

wanted to say was, I love the approach of going in first and

Erika:

like, trying to determine how the image makes me feel as

Erika:

opposed to going in with the, you know, the technical stuff. I

Erika:

am a little bit like Assam and that I'm you know, all business

Erika:

sometimes. And I feel like I going in with that kind of

Erika:

softer approach that oh, how do I how do I feel about this not

Erika:

any of the technical, it really helped me to absorb the image

Erika:

better before I went into the technical stuff.

Nicole York:

I'm so glad to hear that because I noticed I noticed

Nicole York:

the same thing. Before we began the photographers roundtable,

Nicole York:

when the five of us ladies were giving critique for, you know,

Nicole York:

just anybody who was looking for it. Before doing that my

Nicole York:

experience with critique and often my experience in you know,

Nicole York:

group critiques in places like Facebook was really super

Nicole York:

similar to what you're describing where somebody would

Nicole York:

share something, or I would share something and it would be

Nicole York:

you know, everybody would would jump in with kind of a fine

Nicole York:

tooth technical comb and just immediately be like, well, you

Nicole York:

know, the exposure here could be a little bit better and, you

Nicole York:

know, turn around this way and all that kind of stuff, which is

Nicole York:

super great. But all of that advice, there would be no way to

Nicole York:

know if that went into my intention. Because what they

Nicole York:

were giving me was what they thought was technical advice on

Nicole York:

how the image could be better but better for what right like,

Nicole York:

if I don't know how this is making you feel if I don't know

Nicole York:

what Your reaction is to it, it's really hard to judge if

Nicole York:

that piece of technical advice is actually going to help move

Nicole York:

more towards the thing that I want. So I think your point is

Nicole York:

so well taken. And also I'd love to hear. So you said that your

Nicole York:

experience critiquing after you had read what other people said

Nicole York:

was different? Do you think it's just pure difference as in like,

Nicole York:

different but not better or worse? Or do you think it was

Nicole York:

better or worse in some way?

Erika:

Maybe in a way, it was better just because it was

Erika:

better in the fact that I saw things that maybe I would not

Erika:

have seen, just on my own. It helps me to see things in a

Erika:

different way, when I see the way other people are critiquing

Erika:

things. But worse in the sense that I like I fear, it wasn't

Erika:

just my thoughts, it was no thought that were influenced by

Erika:

other people. So a little bit of both.

Nicole York:

Sure. No, yeah, that makes perfect sense. And

Nicole York:

it's, it's interesting, because I think for many of us, and the

Nicole York:

same is true of art. For many of us, we have this idea that if we

Nicole York:

never get influenced, then whatever comes from us will be

Nicole York:

perfectly original. And yet, it's strangely enough, is not

Nicole York:

actually true. Because everything we make is going to

Nicole York:

be influenced. I mean, you you can't make something a human

Nicole York:

being has never seen before, when it comes to your visual

Nicole York:

literacy library, right. Because if if we didn't have society,

Nicole York:

and we lived by ourselves in the woods, then the natural world

Nicole York:

would be the thing that influenced what we created. This

Nicole York:

is why you know, the first drawings are things like animals

Nicole York:

and people because that is what we had experiencing. So we

Nicole York:

don't, we don't think or create in a vacuum. And it's really

Nicole York:

interesting to hear you kind of bring up that experience.

Nicole York:

Because when we have the feedback of other people to open

Nicole York:

our eyes to things we haven't seen yet, when you give

Nicole York:

feedback, the feedback is still yours, it's just now informed by

Nicole York:

more information, right. And so it's kind of a cool, it's kind

Nicole York:

of a cool process, to be able to participate in something like

Nicole York:

that as a group, because I absolutely have experienced the

Nicole York:

same thing you have, where I might be the last person to go.

Nicole York:

And so many people have said what I would have been tended to

Nicole York:

say at first, but now that I've read their thoughts, I can I can

Nicole York:

really tell how much more it's forced me like, it's almost like

Nicole York:

it forces me deeper into the image. And all of a sudden, I'm

Nicole York:

seeing things that I would not have seen on my own, which is

Nicole York:

cool, because it becomes an educational experience for me

Nicole York:

also.

Nicole York:

Alright, anybody else this morning? Who has been

Nicole York:

participating in the critiques? Do you guys have any thoughts

Nicole York:

would love to hear from you this morning. If you can join and

Nicole York:

raise your hand, we'd love to bring you up and hear from you

Bassam Sabbagh:

don't shy people this morning.

Nicole York:

Yeah, it could be just the folks have got stuff to

Nicole York:

do today. So they might not be able to jump in. But um, I'm

Nicole York:

going to pull up Facebook and just even look at some of the

Nicole York:

critiques that were given on my work, and share a couple of the

Nicole York:

things that I have noticed about the nature of these critiques

Nicole York:

and how how deep they are getting, and how much actual

Nicole York:

valuable information is coming out of these that plays right

Nicole York:

into the things that we've been learning over the last couple

Nicole York:

weeks. Because one of the things that I noticed, I shared an

Nicole York:

image that I took over the summer with a beautiful dress

Nicole York:

that cat lent me and this wonderful model who came up to

Nicole York:

work with me. And I finally got the chance to go out into these

Nicole York:

botanical gardens that are here in Albuquerque, and I have been

Nicole York:

wanting to shoot in that space for a long time. Because it's

Nicole York:

just absolutely Lush. And here in the desert. When you get to

Nicole York:

be in a space where everything is green and growing and

Nicole York:

blooming and just full of life. It is a crazy that it's more

Nicole York:

profound even than when you're surrounded by it all the time,

Nicole York:

which when I lived in Washington state that is life there. So I'd

Nicole York:

been dying to shoot there and so we went out into the gardens and

Nicole York:

the way that I shot the image was really specific. I left a

Nicole York:

good deal of space around the subject and then in post

Nicole York:

production I went in and I had to add quite a bit of red to the

Nicole York:

greens because the sun was out and everything is bright and

Nicole York:

excuse me these greens are just Blaze They're so so bright that

Nicole York:

they grab your eye and just pull it right in all directions. So

Nicole York:

after dulling all of those down, you know, I have this kind of

Nicole York:

contemplative but really pretty image. And then the feedback is

Nicole York:

fantastic. Because as people were noting, there are some

Nicole York:

things that I can see are coming from their direct perspective in

Nicole York:

the fields that they specialize in. And then other things that

Nicole York:

are coming from a purely as I look at this, from a technical

Nicole York:

standpoint, I'm seeing that compositionally, I think it

Nicole York:

would be stronger, you know, if you cropped in or if these

Nicole York:

changes were made. And I'm looking at them, and I'm going,

Nicole York:

Wow, okay, you know, I hadn't noticed this before. Or, let me

Nicole York:

try this and see if I actually like it, or how it makes me feel

Nicole York:

when I do it. And one piece of feedback, in particular, when

Nicole York:

went ahead and did a crop and said, You know, when I look at

Nicole York:

this, this is where the area of interest is at. And this is why

Nicole York:

I think it would be you know, that it would be strong, and

Nicole York:

like it's a beautiful crop, and I think it absolutely is, makes

Nicole York:

a really strong image. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to be

Nicole York:

objective and like put myself in the position of if I crop this,

Nicole York:

and if I don't crop it, how do I feel about each thing, and I

Nicole York:

noticed that with the crop, it made me very clearly feel like

Nicole York:

the the background is supplementary, and the subject

Nicole York:

is the most important part of the frame. And then when I pull

Nicole York:

back, at least for me, it felt like the photo is more about the

Nicole York:

moment the subject is having than the subject themselves. And

Nicole York:

like, here's a pretty person. But neither would be a wrong

Nicole York:

answer, right? Like it depending on what your intention is it as

Nicole York:

a portrait artist, it would make absolute sense to make it very

Nicole York:

clear here is the most important thing here and let the

Nicole York:

background kind of play. I don't want to say second fiddle, but

Nicole York:

reinforce the fact that you know, here is a woman in her

Nicole York:

garden, enjoying the afternoon sunshine, or whatever. And so,

Nicole York:

it's been a pretty great experience, slowing down and

Nicole York:

taking my time to consider these individual pieces of feedback

Nicole York:

and really ask myself, if I were to take this piece and institute

Nicole York:

that feedback, would it get me closer to or farther away from

Nicole York:

what my intention was when I shot this, and there was so much

Nicole York:

strong stuff that I can easily which I'm going to do, by the

Nicole York:

way, y'all I'm going to pull that image into Photoshop and

Nicole York:

make the suggestions you'll have you have given me and that way

Nicole York:

we can look and see, okay, from where this image started, to

Nicole York:

what it would become if I take all of these feedbacks into

Nicole York:

account, do we feel overall, like this image has improved. So

Nicole York:

it will be cool to see that happen as well. That way we can

Nicole York:

evaluate like, Alright, when we give the feedback, did it really

Nicole York:

work. And so it'll be fun to experiment there also.

Bassam Sabbagh:

One of the things that kind of frustrates

Bassam Sabbagh:

me the most when I receive feedback, and I see it some some

Bassam Sabbagh:

it frustrates others also is when you when you have already

Bassam Sabbagh:

fixed something because you know it was either wrong or not to

Bassam Sabbagh:

your liking, or, and you fixed it to a point where you think

Bassam Sabbagh:

this is as far as I can go. And then the first feedback you get

Bassam Sabbagh:

is exactly the same thing, saying you should fix it,

Bassam Sabbagh:

meaning you never went he didn't go fast, long story far enough.

Bassam Sabbagh:

I just find it frustrating because yeah, I know, I tried.

Bassam Sabbagh:

And it just points to the fact that maybe there was something

Bassam Sabbagh:

fundamentally wrong and in camera, and I could learn

Bassam Sabbagh:

something about how to avoid that altogether. Or it is a

Bassam Sabbagh:

personal preference in that case, and I decided not to go

Bassam Sabbagh:

further. But then people saw the same thing that bothered me. And

Bassam Sabbagh:

it's just one of those. I don't that's a little frustrating for

Bassam Sabbagh:

some reason.

Nicole York:

I feel you there. I think it's one of those things

Nicole York:

that make you go like Oh, man, which I noticed a couple people

Nicole York:

pointed out the brightness of the greens in my image. And I

Nicole York:

was like, Man, I I tried to do those. I still wanted them to

Nicole York:

glow a little bit. But I did like I tried guys, and now I'm

Nicole York:

like, Okay, so maybe it really is worth going in. And you know,

Nicole York:

the interesting point there that you bring up with some too is

Nicole York:

sometimes when we make those fixes, since we are so and you

Nicole York:

mentioned this yesterday, since we are so acquainted with the

Nicole York:

image itself, we happen to miss like the we don't have that

Nicole York:

objective eye and so that's why it's great for us to take a

Nicole York:

couple days away from an image and come back to it because

Nicole York:

sometimes we've seen it too much and we need some fresh eyes to

Nicole York:

reacquaint ourselves with like, Okay, did did the fix I thought

Nicole York:

fixed it actually fix it or did it not? And that's one of the

Nicole York:

great things I think, you know, we're able to get from critique

Nicole York:

in those circumstances also. So I noticed When has come up as

Nicole York:

well, I want to give you,

Bassam Sabbagh:

maybe, maybe less than seconds on that it's

Bassam Sabbagh:

the same. It's the same. And many of us portrait

Bassam Sabbagh:

photographers or at least retail portrait photographer sees that,

Bassam Sabbagh:

you know, you fix someone's lines under their eyes, you

Bassam Sabbagh:

soften them up, and then you show them the final picture. And

Bassam Sabbagh:

they say, what could you fix the lines under my eyes, it's that

Bassam Sabbagh:

same feeling of oh, my God, I already did if you only saw what

Bassam Sabbagh:

it looked like before. And go ahead when

Win:

I've had that same issue, but some believe me, I

Win:

understand. Back when I was a wedding photographer, as the

Win:

main thrust of my business, we did pre bridal photographs of

Win:

almost everyone. And I used to describe the difference between

Win:

a full length pre bridal and a, and a closer up image of the

Win:

same woman in her same wedding dress. A full length is a

Win:

picture of a wedding dress, with a woman in it. And the closer

Win:

picture is a picture of a woman in her wedding dress. And to the

Win:

same point that the picture that that Nicole was talking about.

Win:

Cropped it's a picture of a woman in the garden, and

Win:

uncropped, it's a picture of a garden, with a woman in it. And

Win:

depending upon the the intention behind the photograph, I mean,

Win:

if you were illustrating an article about wonderful garden

Win:

spaces in the middle of the desert, then the uncropped

Win:

version is all that it needs to be, then there may be some tonal

Win:

corrections that you can help run the use the observers eye

Win:

through the image. But that's the the main difference between

Win:

the two images is ones one is a picture of a situation the other

Win:

is a picture of a person. And and they're both equally valid

Win:

and equally strong in their respective uses. And I just

Win:

wanted to have the get there. That's why I cropped it the way

Win:

I did, because to me, that was a, you know, I've been doing

Win:

portrait photography lately. And so that was that was what that

Win:

was all about in my head that that second, but if it if I was

Win:

working for an editor, and we were illustrating article about

Win:

gardens, of course, it would have been would have been the

Win:

first one. So that's what I have to say.

Nicole York:

I think you said that beautifully when and it's

Nicole York:

so absolutely true. And I think that's why it's fantastic for us

Nicole York:

to be able to have this experience together. Because in

Nicole York:

part, we get to see the intention of the photographer.

Nicole York:

And in part, we get to see the the almost some of our some of

Nicole York:

our biases, given the kind of work that we do, right, like we

Nicole York:

of course, like a portrait photographer is naturally going

Nicole York:

to think, well, you have all this negative space here, like

Nicole York:

let's really get to the heart of what's most important about this

Nicole York:

image. And that's because we're coming from that space, and then

Nicole York:

probably a landscape photographer is going to be

Nicole York:

like, Oh man, if you would have pulled out a little bit, you

Nicole York:

would have been able to get the curve of these gardens and

Nicole York:

really show what it's like to be in that space rather than here

Nicole York:

as a person, right. And so each of us are coming into this

Nicole York:

experience into these critiques with all like our vast knowledge

Nicole York:

all in our areas of specialty. And when we see all of these

Nicole York:

things together, all of a sudden, it becomes almost like a

Nicole York:

buffet of improvement, right? Like here are all of the

Nicole York:

potential things I could do to make this image stronger. And

Nicole York:

then we have what I talked about yesterday, which is we have to

Nicole York:

kind of become our own advocates, then we have to ask

Nicole York:

ourselves, okay, what gets me the closest out of all of this

Nicole York:

really great feedback, which things will get me the closest

Nicole York:

to the intent of the image. And it's, it's amazing how that

Nicole York:

understanding of visual literacy can become the key point because

Nicole York:

like you said, if the purpose of the image was to take a portrait

Nicole York:

of a woman, then that crop does everything that it needs to do

Nicole York:

like all of the sudden that becomes the most important part.

Nicole York:

And then if the purpose is to be like, this is a kind of carded

Nicole York:

cottage core garden fairytale, then all of a sudden, a woman

Nicole York:

becomes part of the story and not just the story herself. So

Nicole York:

it's just this really cool dynamic of being able to make

Nicole York:

these make these decisions.

Win:

While you were talking flashed on the thing. It opens

Win:

up discussion in the importance of really exploring the image

Win:

that you're you're taking. When I'm working for someone else, I

Win:

have a laser focused idea of what I'm what I'm saying

Win:

supposed to do. And we go, when we do that, When I'm

Win:

photographing for myself, I would love to have, in that

Win:

situation, photographed the whole garden with the woman in

Win:

it and come in closer and, and tried to create a body of work

Win:

around the garden, one of those pictures would have been a

Win:

portrait of the woman in the garden. But not all of them,

Win:

most of the pictures would have been a picture of the garden

Win:

with a woman in it, or a family in it, or the patrons of the

Win:

garden, wherever they might be. Because all of those pictures

Win:

exist in that space. And one of those things we have to remember

Win:

to do is not be locked in and only focused on one thing, but

Win:

to give your mind a chance to look at the situation and

Win:

decide, am I going to cover this as, as ever, I'm going to tell

Win:

the story of my day at the garden, or am I going to only

Win:

tell a small piece of that story, instead, because I have a

Win:

reason to tell just that small piece, both of those things are

Win:

valid and remembering to once in a while, take a look at the

Win:

overall situation. Certainly healthier, help everybody's

Win:

photography, to give yourself a chance to expand your field of

Win:

vision. I was at a party one time at New Years, with my

Win:

editor, and the sun was going down and everybody in the at the

Win:

party was watching the sunset. I took a picture 90 degrees away

Win:

from the sunset, because the sky over there, and the pier over

Win:

there became the photograph that I wanted to take to remember the

Win:

day, no people in it. And when you're looking at something

Win:

beautiful, maybe you should do a 360 degree scan to see if the

Win:

beauty that you're looking at is attracting you in a superficial

Win:

way from something else that may have more meaning for you later.

Win:

Just be aware of your surroundings and love what we

Win:

do. I'm done.

Nicole York:

I think that was so well said. And you're absolutely

Nicole York:

right. And maybe at some point, I'll share the rest of the

Nicole York:

images from that set. Because your description is exactly what

Nicole York:

I've done. There are some close ups of the woman particularly,

Nicole York:

there are some more wide shots of her interacting in the

Nicole York:

garden. And all the sudden, in those shots, she becomes an

Nicole York:

avatar for the viewer where we can imagine ourselves in her

Nicole York:

place, you know, picking a flower or you know, looking at

Nicole York:

the birds in the tree or whatever it is that I have her

Nicole York:

doing in those scenes. So I mean, your description of of

Nicole York:

that experience being there and shooting that. And my intention

Nicole York:

there was absolutely right on. I noticed Erica, you had also

Nicole York:

unmuted so I want to make sure we have a chance to hear from

Nicole York:

you. And then from Robert.

Erika:

Yeah, I kind of going back to what besom was saying

Erika:

and a little bit of what when was saying, I found it

Erika:

interesting. Many of the comments made in the critique of

Erika:

my image were things that I literally sat and contemplated

Erika:

for, you know, a long time, you know, and I went back and forth

Erika:

and back and forth. And should I do this, should I do this and,

Erika:

you know, one of one in particular was the crop. And I

Erika:

can't tell you how many times I went back and forth today, you

Erika:

know, zoom it in, zoom it out. And I tried. My issue was like,

Erika:

there were details and that image. Like, for example, the

Erika:

dog's tail was underneath him, which is very typical of, of our

Erika:

dog, you know, he's just kind of a tail between the legs kind of

Erika:

dog, I felt it added this to the story. Now a judge looking at

Erika:

that picture, will they notice that? Probably not they have

Erika:

seconds to look at the image, you know, so is it really

Erika:

contributing is contributing for somebody who is really going to

Erika:

ponder the image, but it may not contribute for the, you know,

Erika:

for the quick look. So, again, trying to you know, take myself

Erika:

my personal feelings out of it. And, you know, and try to

Erika:

determine who's going to be looking at it and the impact I'm

Erika:

trying to make to them will help determine what the final product

Erika:

will be.

Nicole York:

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And that's why

Nicole York:

it was so germane of cat to mention, you know that we need

Nicole York:

to know the purpose like what's the intention of the image If

Nicole York:

we're going into, you know, if we're if we're going into

Nicole York:

judging, then understanding the kinds of things that those

Nicole York:

judges look for, you know, that is a huge factor and trying to

Nicole York:

figure out what we're doing there and what we need to fix

Nicole York:

and what we need to make sure we add and, and when mentioned, you

Nicole York:

know, if I'm working with a client, I have this laser focus,

Nicole York:

because I know going into it what they need. And so then when

Nicole York:

we receive those critiques, it's important for us to understand

Nicole York:

as critiquers what we need to be paying attention to, because if

Nicole York:

I know that you are about to, you know, put in for an award,

Nicole York:

then I want to make sure that I cover those things that the

Nicole York:

judges are going to be considering, because that's your

Nicole York:

purpose for the image. So having that information is just super,

Nicole York:

super important. Robert, want to make sure we have time to hear

Nicole York:

your thoughts today.

Nicole York:

Robert might be away from his phone.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah, Robert, I muted your your mic, just so we

Bassam Sabbagh:

don't get interference. But do you need to unmute.

Robert:

Oh, oh, there we go. We got sorry. I was I was on

Robert:

Facebook, looking at your image. And I was sitting here trying to

Robert:

think if I, you know, I have this thing about eyes. And I

Robert:

keep looking at everybody's images and stuff. And I know

Robert:

mine are a little too under cap that, you know, I didn't even

Robert:

notice it until someone pointed it out to me. But it's about

Robert:

Mine's more about the clarity of the eyeball than anything else

Robert:

that had this argument with my son all the time who I call him

Robert:

a wannabe because he doesn't you know, we don't do photography

Robert:

like that anymore dead. And I keep reminding him that the eyes

Robert:

are the soul of the image. And they're not bright enough it

Robert:

kind of bothers me. And and I see this a lot and I don't know

Robert:

if I'm just being a butthead about it. And old school or what

Robert:

Yep, go ahead.

Bassam Sabbagh:

And just gonna say I don't think it's a matter

Bassam Sabbagh:

of being old school or butthead? I I think we do have our

Bassam Sabbagh:

preferences. Now our preferences may not fit what most people are

Bassam Sabbagh:

looking for. But you see trends with photographers work where

Bassam Sabbagh:

they they just prefer certain things, whether it's the

Bassam Sabbagh:

pictures under undersaturated. Obviously, most people who are

Bassam Sabbagh:

love saturated colors would not be attracted to that photo. So

Bassam Sabbagh:

and I guess that applies to things like clarity in the

Bassam Sabbagh:

eyeballs and the skin smoothing and whatever it is that people

Bassam Sabbagh:

have preference for.

Nicole York:

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I would agree, Robert,

Nicole York:

I don't think you're I don't think that's being a butthead at

Nicole York:

all, I think, I think for me, when I choose to have eye

Nicole York:

contact or not in an image completely depends on the

Nicole York:

psychology that I'm trying to pull on. And so and I'll explain

Nicole York:

what I mean there. So when we make eye contact with one

Nicole York:

another, when we're speaking to each other, what we're doing is

Nicole York:

inviting connection from that person, like we are looking to

Nicole York:

connect very personally with whoever we're engaging with. And

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that eye contact becomes that really key and important point.

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And so if I'm taking a portrait where it's important for me,

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that the viewer engages with the subject of the portrait and and

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gets that moment of connected humanity, then I will make sure

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and I will ask for them to be looking at the camera. But if

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what I want to do is use the image as a way for the viewer to

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have a let's call it like a subjective experience. Like I

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can imagine myself as her in that garden. Or I want them to

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have a kind of voyeuristic experience like man, it must

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have been beautiful to be standing there and surrounded by

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all that beauty. Then I will not ask the subject to look at the

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camera, because I don't I'm using the subject not as the

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individual person like Brenna, who was the lovely model that

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day. She came in and I was not interested in taking a portrait

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of Brenna. I wanted Brenna to become an ideal to become this

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kind of cottage core goddess type thing for a moment that's

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happening right now. And to make a fairy tale with me that then

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somebody could look at and insert themselves into so in

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that case, I didn't want iContact Where is in some of the

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other portraits that I took of her where I wanted specifically

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to be here is Brenda in this gorgeous light and she's

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beautiful. Then I have her make eye contact with a camera. So

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for me, it's all about. It's all about what that intention is and

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what kind of psychology I'm pulling on. So I hope that makes

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sense.

Robert:

Does Thank you. I'm sorry, I just You know, I don't

Robert:

I knew, look at that can even talk. I just one of those guys

Robert:

that look at eyes and go, I want to see them. And,

Robert:

and, you know. But anyway, thank you and I will set up now.

Nicole York:

Yeah, and don't be sorry, don't be sorry at all

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that's, you know, it's a really great point, it's something for

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us to keep in mind that that each, whenever we look at

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something, we're bringing our tastes and our personal, you

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know, our personal desires and our biases and all the things we

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like that comes along with us. And so, if you were to look for

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a piece for your home, probably my work in general just isn't

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going to be the best for you taste wise, because I often

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prefer not to have my subjects look at me, and I'm not a person

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who is interested in catch lights, either, I really don't

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care if my subjects have catch lights in their eyes, because

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often what I'm trying to do is take a picture of a story, and

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not and the person becomes a character. So often, it might

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look like it's, you know, a scene out of out of a movie or

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something like we've caught a movie still. But then other

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folks in here, who like they, they will get that those nice

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bright eyes and those beautiful catch lights and, and they're

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going to have work that falls a lot more in line with with your

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taste. And that's, that's the the wonderful part of being

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photographers and being artists is that, you know, the things we

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like are going to appeal to the people who think the way that we

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do and there's somebody out there some artists out there for

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all of us, which thank God for that, like the fact that so many

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of us now have access to these tools that allow us to create,

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to express ourselves, to show the world how we think and the

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things that we love, and then invite people who think the same

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way to come in and engage with us. Like, that's one of my

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favorite parts of all of us being able to make the amazing

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things that we do. So as we come towards the end of the hour,

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y'all it is time for final thoughts. And this will be our

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last discussion purely about critique this week, as we

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continue critiquing in the Facebook group, if you are not

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in the Facebook group, you can go to the artists forge on

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Facebook, it is private, so you will need to request to get in,

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but we will make sure to let you in and and you can come and

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participate as well. So when I see you're unmuted What are your

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final thoughts,

Win:

one of the very coolest things about photography in in

Win:

the, in the day and age that we find ourselves in is that today,

Win:

as photographers, we have the same control over our images

Win:

that artists manual artists have always enjoyed. If you want

Win:

catch lights in the eyes, you can either light the subject so

Win:

that they're there, or you can use Photoshop, put them in

Win:

later. If you don't want them, you can take them out if you

Win:

want to. So that every piece of work that we can be exactly what

Win:

we want it to be. Once you've learned how to use the available

Win:

tools, it has it's a it's a tremendous feeling of freedom to

Win:

be photographing in 2021 versus photographing in 1981. And in

Win:

1981, I was a commercial photographer, creating images on

Win:

film, mostly large format film. And we had to work really hard

Win:

to get everything on the Chrome that we wanted, because all we

Win:

can Chrome was process the film. And then we were done. Nowadays,

Win:

I don't have to turn to a professional retoucher, I can do

Win:

it myself, I can realize the vision that I that I had. And it

Win:

at once makes the process easier, and far more complex and

Win:

harder to because there's no excuse for not realizing your

Win:

vision anymore. And I think that discussions like we've been

Win:

having open up our minds to all the possibilities, many more

Win:

possibilities than we would traditionally have. And that

Win:

this is nothing but a good thing. And I really thank you

Win:

for having the space here for us to have these conversations.

Win:

Thanks a lot.

Nicole York:

Absolutely, my friend and I 100% agree with

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you. I think that this is this is why we do this. This is why

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we come here every morning and do this together because I know

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at least for me, I grow by leaps and bounds. So I'm so grateful

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to have everybody here with us to go through all of this

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learning. It's been a fantastic few days so far already. This

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week, being able to dive into the act of critique of why it's

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important how we can get the most when we request critique

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how we can get the most when we give critique. And what I would

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really love for folks to keep in mind here is that just like

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everything else we experience as artists, we are bringing our own

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our own preferences, our own biases, our own tastes, into the

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experience. And as much as we want to be objective in as many

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ways as we have to be able to step away a little bit and make

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sure that, you know, we're not just saying change a thing,

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because it's not how I like it. We have to recognize that in

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some way, our personal tastes are going to come into play and

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make sure that we're accounting for those things, and making

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sure that when we are giving feedback, we're beginning from

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the broader perspective of Is it true? Is it necessary? Is it

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kind and then drilling down from there? How did this image make

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us feel? Before we thought about it too much? What was our gut

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reaction to this image? And then taking everything we understand

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about visual literacy? How can we break it down to those points

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so that we can figure out why was this image so good at making

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me feel this way? What is it about this shot that makes me

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feel lonely or happy, that makes me curious or makes me want to

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spend time with the image. And then taking everything we know

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about visual literacy, and things like context and

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environment, subject matter, wardrobe, lighting, color,

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composition, all of those things, and seeing how they

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contribute overall to the way that the image makes us feel.

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And then finally, making certain that our, our broader intention,

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anytime we're interacting with an image this way is to do the

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most good for the person we're trying to help to help them get

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closer to their intention with the image that they're making,

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and to be engaged there to ask questions to not just quickly

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walk away. But there are things that we may have to offer that

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are only going to become clearer when we can get that clarity

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from the person that we're, you know, trying to help. And then

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as the person who is requesting someone else's time, making

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certain that we have put ourselves in a mental space that

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we are ready to accept that feedback, because the last thing

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we want to do is request somebody take time out of their

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day to give us feedback on an image, when we really don't have

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any intention number one of taking that advice. Or number

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two, we're just not in a space yet where we're able to divorce

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ourselves emotionally enough, from the image that we can be a

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little bit more objective, and look at our intention without

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kind of just hoarding the image and feeling like any feedback is

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an attack on us. We have to make sure we're in a good place to

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receive that. And then that we're willing to sit down and

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say, okay, given the feedback I've got, if I try these things,

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does it help me get closer to what I wanted, when I started

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creating this, and making sure that we are our own advocate

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there, and that we look at that feedback and pick the things

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that really apply. And the things that don't, it's okay for

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us to walk away from those, making sure that we recognize

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all of this information exists to help us walk away with an

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image that's closer to what we wanted. So get last part of this

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is just understanding that the process of giving and receiving

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critique is just another time that we get to learn it's time

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that we get to dive into images and break them down and look at

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them through the lens of visual literacy and take all of that

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incredible information, and then apply it and actualize it so

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that when we are doing our pre production on an image, when we

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are shooting, when we're doing post production, we have the

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opportunity to take all of these incredible tools that we have as

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artists and apply them to the image we're making. We're taking

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full advantage of our visual language in order to communicate

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something we think is important to other people. So

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it's a great tool for us to use guys. So really, really amazing

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tool for us to use. So I hope I will be seeing everybody in the

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Facebook group this week. I hope you all will be sharing and

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critiquing and really just diving into this experience so

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that we can take everything we learned about visual literacy,

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and just internalize it in a way that makes it easier for us to

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use when we go to work in the future. So I hope we will see

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everybody in the Facebook group today. I hope we will see y'all

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bright and early tomorrow morning for another episode of

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morning walk and photo talk with the artists forge 7am Mountain

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Standard Time that's 6am for the West Coast 9am for the East

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Coast afternoon for our friends overseas. In the meantime, go

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make something amazing, and we'll see you next time.

Matt Stagliano:

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

Matt Stagliano:

discussion moderated by all of us at the artists Forge. We hope

Matt Stagliano:

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

Matt Stagliano:

episodes, please join us each week day on clubhouse or visit

Matt Stagliano:

the artist forge.com Go make something incredible

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About the Podcast

Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge
How to Critique Art
Learn how mindset, creativity, and visual literacy will help you think like an artist so you can create work you love and build a career that matters; bridging the gap between technique and art.

About your host

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Nicole York