Episode 3

full
Published on:

29th Dec 2021

Discipline and Goals

How do artists build the kind of discipline and habits that make them successful? In this live recording, the members of The Artist's Forge talk about the psychology and physiology of building habits, and how thinking about discipline differently will make artist's more creative, prolific, and productive.

Transcript
Matt Stagliano:

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

Matt Stagliano:

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

Matt Stagliano:

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

Matt Stagliano:

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

Matt Stagliano:

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

Matt Stagliano:

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

Matt Stagliano:

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

Matt Stagliano:

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

Matt Stagliano:

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

Matt Stagliano:

us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.

Nicole York:

And welcome back to morning walk and photo talk. We

Nicole York:

have talked about critique this week, we've been really into the

Nicole York:

process, why it's important, how we give it how we receive it.

Nicole York:

And then our overall experiences with critique. We tied that up

Nicole York:

in a big bow yesterday. And today. We're gonna finish out

Nicole York:

the Week today and tomorrow. By well, just today, I guess,

Nicole York:

by talking about this interesting thing that I found.

Nicole York:

Basically, a lot of our discussion around mindset in

Nicole York:

this room, is why the room was initially built to be quite

Nicole York:

honest. I purchased the artists forged domain last year. And I

Nicole York:

knew that what I wanted was to kind of foster a place where we

Nicole York:

could not only talk about about mindset, but we could talk about

Nicole York:

what it actually means to think like and become an artist, not

Nicole York:

the techniques, because technique is fluid. There are

Nicole York:

many things that move across all media and all disciplines. And

Nicole York:

not just the techniques specific to photography, which is why

Nicole York:

it's called the artist Forge. But the mindset, the habits, the

Nicole York:

patterns of behavior, the things that you have to do and become

Nicole York:

in order to be successful, in order to be able to reach your

Nicole York:

potential as an artist and make the kinds of things that you

Nicole York:

want to make. And so our early discussions here, all really

Nicole York:

centered around things related to mindset. And there is a

Nicole York:

stuffed puppy. It's just on the sidewalk. Okay. I was, I hope it

Nicole York:

doesn't like animate and get up and chase me because I'm in the

Nicole York:

middle of nowhere. So that's kind of creepy. Alright. So

Nicole York:

yesterday, as I was working, came across this author, Charles

Nicole York:

clear getting some interviews on a couple of podcasts. And he

Nicole York:

really covered things that have been near to my hearts

Nicole York:

throughout the process of kind of forging this community with

Nicole York:

you all. And habit was one of the big things that he talked

Nicole York:

about that I want to talk about today. And I know, you've heard

Nicole York:

me talk about habit in the past. But I think the way that he

Nicole York:

approaches it, and some of the clarity that he's brought to the

Nicole York:

subject actually is going to make it a little bit easier for

Nicole York:

us to think about how habit impacts impacts as artists. And

Nicole York:

we start putting together these habits that will increase or

Nicole York:

increase our creativity, or allow us to start fostering some

Nicole York:

of the behaviors that are going to get us where we want to go.

Nicole York:

Because not all of them. Fact, building habits can be really

Nicole York:

incredibly difficult. And one of the things that he mentioned

Nicole York:

this morning that I wanted to share with you before we really

Nicole York:

got into the meat of the discussion is well, how long

Nicole York:

does it take to build a habit? 21 days, 22 days, 66 days, and

Nicole York:

things that he mentioned, I want to share with you guys in the

Nicole York:

storage space. So if you want to go he's do that because it's

Nicole York:

fantastic. But basically he said, first of all, the question

Nicole York:

is showing that you are approaching this idea from a

Nicole York:

space, that's not going to be very helpful to you. Because it

Nicole York:

assumes that there is an end that eventually, all of a sudden

Nicole York:

building this habit is done now. But that's not actually the way

Nicole York:

that it works. Because once you stop practicing a habit, it's

Nicole York:

not a habit anymore. You may still feel the occasional twinge

Nicole York:

or urge to do the thing. But that habit will have been gone.

Nicole York:

And so when we build habits, we have to stop looking at it as if

Nicole York:

it's something we can just do enough times and all of a sudden

Nicole York:

will trigger autopilot, but something that is now going to

Nicole York:

be part of our life. And so as we consider like, Okay, I

Nicole York:

recognize that I want to start building up habits that are

Nicole York:

going to help me be more creative. As an artist. We have

Nicole York:

to recognize that those are just going to become part of our

Nicole York:

lives. This is a change in lifestyle that has to be

Nicole York:

facilitated by your desires engine the way that you think.

Nicole York:

So. That was kind of a starting point for this competition,

Nicole York:

actually important keynotes helpful guide everything

Nicole York:

we do purchase goals is not the way that you and I think

Nicole York:

traditionally think about goals, this idea of, you know, SMART

Nicole York:

goals. And then we break things down into individual parts that

Nicole York:

are actionable and all of this stuff. And to kick off the

Nicole York:

conversation, that's where we're going to start because our it is

Nicole York:

the habits that get us to the goals. So we had a really great,

Nicole York:

great quote that I wrote down that I wanted to share with you

Nicole York:

guys, this is also true for anybody who's ever been in the

Nicole York:

military, you'll kind of recognize the saying, in a bit

Nicole York:

of a different manner, but you do not rise to the level of your

Nicole York:

goals, you fall to the level of your systems, similar with the

Nicole York:

military, but we just say you fall to the level of your

Nicole York:

training, right? Whatever the level of your training is,

Nicole York:

that's what you're going to default to in any situation. And

Nicole York:

so both the people who succeed in achieving their goals, and

Nicole York:

the people who fail in achieving their goals had the exact same

Nicole York:

goal, then it's not the goal that defines whether or not

Nicole York:

we're going to achieve it. And it's not even how clear the goal

Nicole York:

is to us, that's going to define whether or not we achieve it,

Nicole York:

it's the systems we put in place to help us get there. And

Nicole York:

history is rife with the stories of people who have set goals,

Nicole York:

and and then gone about getting them in really, in ways that

Nicole York:

were not expected at the time, like breaking everything down,

Nicole York:

getting rid of all the fancy trick plays, all of the fancy

Nicole York:

training. And going back to the basics, right when everybody

Nicole York:

thought, well, all these guys are professionals, they already

Nicole York:

know this, but all of a sudden, the team starts winning

Nicole York:

championships, even things as small as we're gonna change the

Nicole York:

way we sleep, as a team, there's no late nights, there's no etc,

Nicole York:

etc. This is now the way we sleep, and we're gonna bring our

Nicole York:

pillows with us, even when we're traveling for games, to keep

Nicole York:

that continuity and how we behave. So there's all this

Nicole York:

really interesting information around goal setting. And the

Nicole York:

idea that these habits are not necessarily habits in the

Nicole York:

traditional Well, I don't want to say traditional because the

Nicole York:

research, fairly recent as research is concerned. But um,

Nicole York:

we've talked about how habits get embedded in the basal

Nicole York:

ganglia. But also, long, complex habits take longer to form,

Nicole York:

which is why when you talk about them as systems, they become a

Nicole York:

little bit easier to understand. Because once that system is in

Nicole York:

place, those habits trigger one another in a sequence, that

Nicole York:

means now you have kind of, it's almost like complex coding, you

Nicole York:

have these codes that trigger one another that you're able to

Nicole York:

follow. So I know Erica watched the interview. So it'd be great

Nicole York:

to to have her thoughts also this morning. But before we do

Nicole York:

that, I want to ask you, besar and Matt, have you ever thought

Nicole York:

about the way that our ultimate success is kind of built on

Nicole York:

these smaller bricks of I wake up at this time in the morning,

Nicole York:

I do these things, and the things that I do these these

Nicole York:

individual things that I do reinforce what I believe about

Nicole York:

myself? And ultimately, it's that that gets us to where we

Nicole York:

want to go? And not necessarily not necessarily the goals that

Nicole York:

we have for ourselves.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah, I,

Bassam Sabbagh:

I truly believe in what you just said, it is not necessarily the

Bassam Sabbagh:

goals as much as the

Bassam Sabbagh:

way we go about the self discipline that we have. And

Bassam Sabbagh:

going about it and anything we learn about how to how to get

Bassam Sabbagh:

that self defense, there's so much stuff out there about how

Bassam Sabbagh:

to actually put that self get, put that self discipline in

Bassam Sabbagh:

place. And at the end of the day, it's what you do with it.

Bassam Sabbagh:

And I'm going to say that I as much as I believe in this, I

Bassam Sabbagh:

suck at it. Throughout my career, I've had a pretty

Bassam Sabbagh:

successful career. But I can't pinpoint a case specific either

Bassam Sabbagh:

system or personal process that I went through on a daily basis.

Bassam Sabbagh:

That made me do what I did. Right but I also at the same

Bassam Sabbagh:

time cannot pinpoint clear goals that I had which is a kind of a

Bassam Sabbagh:

weird thing because in in essence I did very well in my

Bassam Sabbagh:

career and I got to whatever goals I thought I had, but I

Bassam Sabbagh:

never really had goals and I kind of floated through it yet I

Bassam Sabbagh:

was successful so it's it's kind of hard to kind of bring those

Bassam Sabbagh:

two things together in my in my mind right so like a guy with a

Bassam Sabbagh:

with no discipline, essentially. And I know I'm exaggerating when

Bassam Sabbagh:

I say that I'm sure I had some discipline, but I can't pinpoint

Bassam Sabbagh:

it and yet it to me I define it as success. So that's my first

Bassam Sabbagh:

impression of disgust of this discussion.

Nicole York:

Yes. And I actually do have a response to that. And

Nicole York:

and something that may, that may particularly have been the case.

Nicole York:

And I'm going to share a story a little bit later. I know some of

Nicole York:

you have already heard it, but I think it will speak to, I think

Nicole York:

it will speak to that as well.

Matt Stagliano:

But before I do that, I want to make sure Matt

Matt Stagliano:

has a chance to share his thoughts. Yeah, you know, I

Matt Stagliano:

agree with a lot of what besonders said, there have been

Matt Stagliano:

a lot of instances in my life where those smaller steps are

Matt Stagliano:

the only thing that have gotten me to where I want it to be. And

Matt Stagliano:

oftentimes, you don't have sight of that in the moment, right?

Matt Stagliano:

You're so focused on the big goal. Why am I not losing the

Matt Stagliano:

weight? Why am I not getting better at this craft? Why am I

Matt Stagliano:

not doing this to the other. And it's because you're focused on

Matt Stagliano:

this overnight success, easy button, take one good pill, and

Matt Stagliano:

we're done sort of thing. But that 10,000 hours that people

Matt Stagliano:

talk about the the slow, steady progress, the small bricks,

Matt Stagliano:

however you want to make an analogy for it. Those are the

Matt Stagliano:

things that so long as you stay focused on that, and having

Matt Stagliano:

faith and I think we've talked about faith, I am not a

Matt Stagliano:

religious person. But I have faith in myself that if I

Matt Stagliano:

continue to put in the work every single day that I'll

Matt Stagliano:

accomplish my goals, I've been someone that struggled with

Matt Stagliano:

weight my entire life. The only thing that works for me is all

Matt Stagliano:

right, you guys better grab pen and pencil. If you eat right and

Matt Stagliano:

exercise.

Matt Stagliano:

weight falls off. I know, it's amazing. I'm going to share that

Matt Stagliano:

with you guys. If you subscribe to my newsletter, I'll give you

Matt Stagliano:

all sorts of new tips that you can that you can use.

Nicole York:

But I refuse to believe.

Matt Stagliano:

But but getting up in the morning and walking

Matt Stagliano:

four or five miles and eating cleanly and taking care of my

Matt Stagliano:

body and doing the right things to get enough sleep and not be

Matt Stagliano:

out of balance. All of those little things contribute to

Matt Stagliano:

keeping me healthy and keeping my weight down. If it's training

Matt Stagliano:

in martial arts, if it's doing any sort of new skill, you're

Matt Stagliano:

not good at it out of the box. If you are you're a freak show,

Matt Stagliano:

and I want to manage you and make a million dollars. If

Matt Stagliano:

you're like the 99.9% of us that aren't like that, then it's all

Matt Stagliano:

those little things that really do over time build up. And it's

Matt Stagliano:

only when you let some time pass and look back that you see how

Matt Stagliano:

much of that input actually paid off. So when I'm goal setting,

Matt Stagliano:

we've talked about this, I think a couple months back, but I set

Matt Stagliano:

a large goal. Don't try to focus on the every single day, am I

Matt Stagliano:

making progress towards it? I just have the faith that I'm

Matt Stagliano:

going to. So I say all right, well, I want to be a moderator

Matt Stagliano:

on the artists board podcast. Well, what do I need to do I

Matt Stagliano:

need to talk to Nicole, I need to not be a creep, I need to get

Matt Stagliano:

all my my thoughts in order so on and so forth. Over time

Matt Stagliano:

that's going to pay off and I'll be a moderator on the artists

Matt Stagliano:

Forge. It's having that faith in ourselves that I think most of

Matt Stagliano:

us don't have the patience or discipline for. So when besar

Matt Stagliano:

was talking about discipline, that's, that's really all it is

Matt Stagliano:

in any facet of life in anything that you're trying to do. It's a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of discipline over a long period of time.

Nicole York:

Okay, there was so much good stuff in both of your

Nicole York:

comments. And I'm actually really super excited to address

Nicole York:

these things. Because as soon as I found this yesterday, it's

Nicole York:

been on my mind so much. Okay, so there's a couple things

Nicole York:

first, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell my story, and then I'm

Nicole York:

gonna explain how it relates to what both of you guys said. And

Nicole York:

hopefully, it helps maybe shed some light for Ubisoft on maybe

Nicole York:

what was happening with you. And then also this idea of, of

Nicole York:

discipline, right?

Nicole York:

So, so interesting. Okay, so I was in the military. When I got

Nicole York:

pregnant with my first my first kiddo, and I gained a good

Nicole York:

amount of weight, even though I was healthy and still moving was

Nicole York:

just one of those ladies that gained some weight with her

Nicole York:

pregnancy. And so after I had my son, I just maintained a

Nicole York:

comfortable level of squish for years. And then when he was

Nicole York:

five, I had my next kiddo. So I just kind of stayed in this

Nicole York:

cycle of like, soft squishiness. And I was healthy, but it just

Nicole York:

had been used to a military level of fitness. And so it was

Nicole York:

uncomfortable for me. And I would try different things to

Nicole York:

lose weight. Like I did Zumba stuff, and I got a gym

Nicole York:

membership. And I was walking hills with a friend of mine and

Nicole York:

and that was my first. My first look at the fact that I think

Nicole York:

what I had been told about the discipline of fitness was wrong.

Nicole York:

And here's why. I was fit in the military because I didn't have a

Nicole York:

choice. I was in an environment where everybody was fit. It was

Nicole York:

an expectation that you would be fit and we were all fit

Nicole York:

together. So we all did the things together, we ran, we did

Nicole York:

push ups, we did everything together. And so that was just

Nicole York:

the environment that you were in, it didn't really take

Nicole York:

discipline in the sense of willpower, right? Like, I better

Nicole York:

force myself to go down there and do this thing, you just

Nicole York:

didn't have a choice. So you did it. So there's something to the

Nicole York:

environmental expectations that we have, the people that we

Nicole York:

surround ourselves with, that form a kind of floor, right,

Nicole York:

that you really can't fall through. Because falling

Nicole York:

through, it means you don't get to be here anymore. And we'll

Nicole York:

find this with all of the groups that we put ourselves in. When

Nicole York:

you become a photographer, you start looking for a tribe,

Nicole York:

right? You join online, Facebook group, Facebook groups, you join

Nicole York:

forums, you start looking for your people. And all of the

Nicole York:

sudden, the norms of that environment that tried that

Nicole York:

society, slowly become your norms. And there is a kind of

Nicole York:

minimum level of that is required of you to be in that

Nicole York:

space. So once that was gone for me, and it came down to I just

Nicole York:

have to force myself to do things I don't like. Because I

Nicole York:

do not like to run, I really do not like working out for the

Nicole York:

sake of working out there is no pleasure in that for me at all.

Nicole York:

Which is one of the points of building these systems, these

Nicole York:

habits is that there must be some kind of reward built into

Nicole York:

the action, not only the long term reward of what we're going

Nicole York:

after, right, feeling comfortable in our own bodies,

Nicole York:

or being a master photographer, or whatever. But we get

Nicole York:

rewarded, every time we pick up our camera and create something

Nicole York:

we love. Or every time we learn the new thing. And we put it

Nicole York:

into practice, and all of a sudden, now we're better than we

Nicole York:

were before. So there's a kind of immediate reward baked into

Nicole York:

the behavior. And for me, and all of the things that I tried

Nicole York:

to stick with there that just didn't exist, I was just forcing

Nicole York:

myself to go to the gym, I was just forcing myself to lift the

Nicole York:

weight or walk on the treadmill or whatever it was I was doing.

Nicole York:

And as soon as anything popped up, that would give me a

Nicole York:

reasonable expectation of not fulfilling that thing. I would

Nicole York:

take it I'd be like, Oh, no, the kid doesn't feel good this

Nicole York:

morning, or whatever it is, I'm not going. But all of that

Nicole York:

changed. When I found climbing. I started climbing, I

Nicole York:

immediately loved it. It was everything my small monkey heart

Nicole York:

was like trying to do since I was a child, if there was a

Nicole York:

tree, I wasn't the top of it. So anything, I even climbed stop

Nicole York:

signs. That's not That's not what I would climb stop signs.

Nicole York:

So I immediately it was the thing for me. And I just every

Nicole York:

opportunity I could get to go, I wanted to go not because I

Nicole York:

wanted to lose weight, but because I just really loved the

Nicole York:

climbing. And then all of the people who were there with me,

Nicole York:

were all climbers as well. And we all had the same goal. So not

Nicole York:

only did I find something that gave me an immediate reward, I

Nicole York:

found a tribe of people who were all after the same thing that I

Nicole York:

was after. And there was a kind of minimum level of expectation

Nicole York:

amongst those people that you would show up, that you put your

Nicole York:

harness and your shoes on and that you will go to work. And

Nicole York:

that we would chat. And it would also be fun. And we would

Nicole York:

congratulate each other on our accomplishments. Even when we

Nicole York:

didn't have the same projects. And then all the things, the

Nicole York:

goals that I would have had for myself, just started to happen.

Nicole York:

I just lost weight. When I did, I wasn't actively trying to it

Nicole York:

became the natural function of the behaviors that I was doing.

Nicole York:

And because the behavior in itself had a reward built into

Nicole York:

it, I didn't have to try it didn't have to rely on

Nicole York:

willpower, in order to do the thing, I would have done it even

Nicole York:

if the result was never losing weights. And as a result of

Nicole York:

wanting to be a better climber. I was also eating healthier,

Nicole York:

because I wanted a really strong strength to weight ratio, I

Nicole York:

wanted to be able to pull myself up easily on the times when I

Nicole York:

needed to rely on strength rather than technique. And so

Nicole York:

that was a really clear motivation for me. And at that

Nicole York:

point, I was the fittest I had been since having my kids and

Nicole York:

when I look at photos of me climbing, or bouldering I see

Nicole York:

all of these back muscles and I'm like, Oh my god. COVID has

Nicole York:

taken so much from me. But really, it's not COVID it's the

Nicole York:

change in the environment and the change in the people that

Nicole York:

I'm around. And the fact that now those behaviors are more

Nicole York:

difficult for me to follow through on because I live at

Nicole York:

half an hour from the gym. I have kids in school that make it

Nicole York:

difficult for me to get there in time. The fact that the commute

Nicole York:

itself would take an hour hour out of my day all of these

Nicole York:

things all of a sudden stand in the way of me performing those

Nicole York:

big behaviors that I would want to perform. And during that

Nicole York:

time, my identity was that I was a climber, I was still all the

Nicole York:

other things to still a photographer, still a mom, but I

Nicole York:

was also a climber. And right now, I cannot reliably say that

Nicole York:

about myself, because I can only manage to get into the gym a few

Nicole York:

times a month. And so now, I am just someone who climbs. And

Nicole York:

there's a difference, right? Because when, when that becomes

Nicole York:

my identity, I start practicing the behaviors that reinforce

Nicole York:

that identity. And so this is a long story with examples in

Nicole York:

order to show the fact that first, do your point besom. I

Nicole York:

think when we are in an environment, where certain

Nicole York:

things are expected of us, we fall into those patterns of

Nicole York:

behavior. without really realizing that we have, you

Nicole York:

know, it's not the same as when you have to willpower muscle

Nicole York:

your way through some activity that is going to move you

Nicole York:

towards your goal. But it's not necessarily something that you

Nicole York:

would have done. Whereas when you surround yourself with

Nicole York:

people, like we do here in the morning, there's a level of

Nicole York:

expectation that we are all going towards a certain place

Nicole York:

together, we're all reaching for mastery, we're all heading

Nicole York:

towards self actualization, we're all trying to become

Nicole York:

something. And so these types of thought patterns and behaviors

Nicole York:

are encouraged. And we're able to naturally fall into that

Nicole York:

without having to muscle our way through habits until they become

Nicole York:

habits.

Nicole York:

And then to your point, Matt, I think it's really interesting.

Nicole York:

One of the things that the author said, that really

Nicole York:

connected with me was basically, that people who seem to have

Nicole York:

great willpower, actually just don't come up against temptation

Nicole York:

enough, so that they have those reserves, when they do encounter

Nicole York:

the thing. And that makes a lot of sense, when you think about

Nicole York:

if your environment is it certain behaviors all the time,

Nicole York:

like if everybody in my house loves sugar, and so my house is

Nicole York:

full of sweets, and they're always there. But I don't want

Nicole York:

to eat them, I might be able to resist for a day, for a couple

Nicole York:

days for a couple of weeks. But eventually, the constant strain

Nicole York:

on my willpower is going to result in, I'm going to eat the

Nicole York:

doughnut, I'm probably going to eat the whole box, because I've

Nicole York:

been trying not to, and I'm just going to crash and burn, right.

Nicole York:

Whereas when we change our environment to make those

Nicole York:

behaviors are easier to complete. And we don't have all

Nicole York:

of this environmental and social pressure to do the thing, all of

Nicole York:

a sudden, our reserve of willpower goes up, and it

Nicole York:

becomes easier to complete the task. And so I wonder if that

Nicole York:

example in those things resonate with either of you guys at all,

Nicole York:

and, and what you described as like your experience with how

Nicole York:

these small bricks of behavior and pattern and almost training

Nicole York:

like training yourself, how those build into, like the final

Nicole York:

structure of your goal

Matt Stagliano:

100%. So I think one of the biggest changes in my

Matt Stagliano:

life, and it's an it's an actual representation of this, one of

Matt Stagliano:

the biggest changes is moving out of the city and into the

Matt Stagliano:

country into a place that's very remote, I would not necessarily

Matt Stagliano:

suggest for everybody that you move yourself as remote as I

Matt Stagliano:

did, and put yourself in the middle of a forest with no

Matt Stagliano:

neighbors. But what it did was it took me out of the city

Matt Stagliano:

environment, that rat race of trying to keep up with everybody

Matt Stagliano:

of constant comparison of, you know, really wearing down my

Matt Stagliano:

mental state of feeling good about myself. And when I was

Matt Stagliano:

able to remove myself from that environment of constant heavy

Matt Stagliano:

competition, trying to keep up with people and so on and so

Matt Stagliano:

forth, that I was able to quiet my mind and find a little bit

Matt Stagliano:

more balance. It also, you know, kept me from eating out five

Matt Stagliano:

nights a week, and thereby, you know, maintaining my weight a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit better. It all the little things that removed me

Matt Stagliano:

from the environment that was toxic to me that I didn't

Matt Stagliano:

realize because it's like a frog boiling in water right? Is I

Matt Stagliano:

didn't realize that it had done so much damage to me over time.

Matt Stagliano:

And when I was able to separate myself from that environment, a

Matt Stagliano:

lot of good things emerged. Same kind of thing I've gone through

Matt Stagliano:

as you Nicole, just get all the junk out of your house and

Matt Stagliano:

you're not going to eat it and it's more difficult to then go

Matt Stagliano:

out and buy it and make that constant choice than a conscious

Matt Stagliano:

choice than to just have it in the house and be unconsciously

Matt Stagliano:

feeding all the time. So it's it's little bits and pieces

Matt Stagliano:

setting yourself up for success is what a lot of people call it

Matt Stagliano:

so

Matt Stagliano:

If you don't have it in front of you, you can't be tempted by it.

Matt Stagliano:

I love that whole line of thinking. And I haven't yet

Matt Stagliano:

watched the video that you posted, but I can't wait to do

Matt Stagliano:

it because I'm really digging this conversation.

Nicole York:

Same. Yeah, and I'm really glad that you were

Nicole York:

immediately able to find those.

Nicole York:

Those similarities, because it's, it's crazy. When I think

Nicole York:

about, for me, my parents were both heavy smokers, and heavy

Nicole York:

coffee drinkers, and, and they smoked pot as well. So from the

Nicole York:

time I was tiny, and

Nicole York:

for I became an anomaly, because those of us who are surrounded

Nicole York:

in an environment like that, and do none of those things, we tend

Nicole York:

to be small miracles, right? That and just that, just in the

Nicole York:

fact that we did not go down that path, my brother, opposite

Nicole York:

of me, he does all the things my parents did, maybe with the

Nicole York:

exception of the heavy coffee drinking, but it is it is an

Nicole York:

exact opposite response, which is incredibly rare. Which is why

Nicole York:

when we see success stories of people coming up from the very

Nicole York:

bottom, they're so amazing and motivated, because they were

Nicole York:

surrounded by an environment that was not at all conducive to

Nicole York:

the life that they built for themselves. And it's, it's kind

Nicole York:

of amazing how much things can change. Once you build an

Nicole York:

environment for yourself, or find an environment for yourself

Nicole York:

that supports building the kind of behaviors that will get you

Nicole York:

where you want to go. It's just It's pretty crazy. It's nature

Nicole York:

versus nurture, and epigenetics kind of all at the same time.

Nicole York:

Which is wild. So bizarre, I'd love to hear if any of that

Nicole York:

resonated with like your experience working in the

Nicole York:

corporate environment, and being you know, managing those teams.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah, yeah, you know, what you said so much

Bassam Sabbagh:

there that there is a lot of a lot to cover. But I want to go

Bassam Sabbagh:

back to, you know, I'm probably gonna have a hard time

Bassam Sabbagh:

articulating this, but I'm gonna go back to the kind of the first

Bassam Sabbagh:

thing you said, which is around the fact that when, when there

Bassam Sabbagh:

are built in systems, like, the example of the military, were

Bassam Sabbagh:

we, together with this together, and there's expectations, that

Bassam Sabbagh:

it's the kind of a minimum that's expected for everybody to

Bassam Sabbagh:

behave into, otherwise, they may kind of drop out of that tribe

Bassam Sabbagh:

or not belong anymore, or let go or whatever. Right. And, and, to

Bassam Sabbagh:

me that, that, that is absolutely true, because that

Bassam Sabbagh:

applies in the corporate in any, any any setting and corporate,

Bassam Sabbagh:

yours is not just hard systems and processes to get stuff done,

Bassam Sabbagh:

which, which, by the way, are extremely important. Because

Bassam Sabbagh:

when you have many, many people trying to do the same thing,

Bassam Sabbagh:

efficiency, and the need for getting things done, means you

Bassam Sabbagh:

need to follow these processes. But it's more than those, those

Bassam Sabbagh:

those, those what I call technical processes, or, you

Bassam Sabbagh:

know, it's more about the behaviors that are expected, and

Bassam Sabbagh:

things like that, that kind of define the minimum that

Bassam Sabbagh:

everybody needs to behave, right. My reel where i, where i,

Bassam Sabbagh:

where I was going with my initial story was within that,

Bassam Sabbagh:

what differentiates people? Why is it that people make it up the

Bassam Sabbagh:

ladder? If that's what their definition of success, success

Bassam Sabbagh:

is? Yet other people don't make it up the ladder? Why is it that

Bassam Sabbagh:

some people just get there because intuitively, they have

Bassam Sabbagh:

the leadership skills, intuitively, they have the, the

Bassam Sabbagh:

thing or they have a I don't know if you're born with it, or

Bassam Sabbagh:

I don't, I don't know that term. But my point is, most people do

Bassam Sabbagh:

stuff and they don't even realize that they're doing it,

Bassam Sabbagh:

right. And yet others need the book that says, you know, the

Bassam Sabbagh:

five steps, the leadership or the 20 things to do to be a good

Bassam Sabbagh:

leader. So those those that are intuitively doing it, sometimes

Bassam Sabbagh:

don't realize what it is. And when they do, they may write a

Bassam Sabbagh:

book about it. Right. But fundamentally, what I was trying

Bassam Sabbagh:

to say is that I can't pinpoint in my case, whatever my

Bassam Sabbagh:

definition of success and whatever my definition of where

Bassam Sabbagh:

I got to in my in my career, I can't pinpoint two, you know,

Bassam Sabbagh:

what differentiated me from others is because I have this,

Bassam Sabbagh:

this, this and that, right? It's not, it's not, hey, by the way,

Bassam Sabbagh:

I read 17 books, and I was coached, and I applied those

Bassam Sabbagh:

things. And I became what I became known to me, I said, I

Bassam Sabbagh:

floated through it, and um, it's not a matter of bragging about

Bassam Sabbagh:

it. It's just I find it interesting that some people

Bassam Sabbagh:

float to something with what looks like from the outside,

Bassam Sabbagh:

they float the something or at least they it looks like they

Bassam Sabbagh:

don't float with it looks like they intentionally got there.

Bassam Sabbagh:

But internally, they feel that there's this they just loads

Bassam Sabbagh:

floated through it. It just happened. So I'm trying to

Bassam Sabbagh:

pinpoint what is that? You know, like, why are some artists

Bassam Sabbagh:

amazing creativity and They don't even realize how they do

Bassam Sabbagh:

it, they just do it. And yet most of us are scratching for

Bassam Sabbagh:

the how to write? Yes. So it's the it's the fact that it's

Bassam Sabbagh:

nebulous foremost for a lot of people, versus Hey, I applied

Bassam Sabbagh:

the 10 steps, and it worked. That's what I, yeah, I don't

Bassam Sabbagh:

know if any sense

Nicole York:

it does 100% and 100% does. And I think I have a

Nicole York:

really great metaphor for this. I'm stealing this from CS Lewis,

Nicole York:

which is, he wrote in the book Mere Christianity, that picture,

Nicole York:

if you will, two different factories. And by the time you

Nicole York:

come to this factory, which we're going to use as the

Nicole York:

metaphor for, you've done enough reflection, that you're able to

Nicole York:

notice the fact that you're in a factory. So we all begin beside,

Nicole York:

like you said, we're just in a factory, we are spirit living in

Nicole York:

a body, okay, we'll use that as the metaphor. We didn't choose

Nicole York:

the body, we just happen to be in it. And we take it for

Nicole York:

granted. We do all of the things expected by our parents, by our

Nicole York:

environment, our school system, our friend, group, etc, without

Nicole York:

ever really wondering why we just fall right into those

Nicole York:

natural patterns of behavior. And then at some point, we wake

Nicole York:

up and realize, oh, we actually have control over the whole

Nicole York:

thing. Like, we're actually the manager of this factory, okay?

Nicole York:

When I look at my factory, and you look at yours, you might

Nicole York:

have a really, really great, healthy machinery, like, there's

Nicole York:

no rust, the belts have been taken care of. There's plenty of

Nicole York:

oil in the right places, like all of these things were kind of

Nicole York:

preserved in a way by the environment that you were in,

Nicole York:

what you learned, your habits of how you think about yourself,

Nicole York:

and all those things. And maybe my factory is kind of falling

Nicole York:

apart a little bit. I've got a few screws loose, right, and my

Nicole York:

equipment hasn't been very well taken care of. So I have some

Nicole York:

belts that are coming off and rust happening. And all of these

Nicole York:

things, your output, without effort is just kind of naturally

Nicole York:

going to be a little bit higher than my output without effort.

Nicole York:

And you may never actually realize that the reason is

Nicole York:

because you've kind of built up a way of thinking in a way of

Nicole York:

being thanks to your environment that are conducive to having a

Nicole York:

good factory. In order for me to get to the level that you were

Nicole York:

at naturally, I have to not only recognize that I'm manager of

Nicole York:

the factory, but now I have to start taking steps to care for

Nicole York:

and improve my equipment, I have to go in and replace belts, I

Nicole York:

have to wheel things up, I have to tighten screws, I have to

Nicole York:

start treating my equipment, like it is something I can care

Nicole York:

for and improve upon. And then I will have seen what it took to

Nicole York:

become a factory like your factory with similar output. And

Nicole York:

if you were to realize that you were the manager of your

Nicole York:

factory, and you were to purposely go, you know what

Nicole York:

things are already going pretty good, but I'm gonna upgrade this

Nicole York:

shit. What do I have to do to upgrade it? Well, I need to

Nicole York:

sleep well, I need to read these books need to break these

Nicole York:

patterns of behavior, get out of these environments, whatever.

Nicole York:

All of a sudden, now you start to recognize, when you look back

Nicole York:

at your behaviors, and the patterns that help you get

Nicole York:

there, you realize, okay, I was just well fitted out by the

Nicole York:

factory, I was given by the environment I was in by the

Nicole York:

standards of behavior that were expected. I was just well fitted

Nicole York:

out to begin, my baseline is this place, right? So I think at

Nicole York:

least I hope that that's kind of an illuminating metaphor for the

Nicole York:

way that we begin with the habits that were instilled in us

Nicole York:

and built for us. And then hopefully end by recognizing

Nicole York:

that those patterns are things we can change.

Bassam Sabbagh:

It's a great, it's a great metaphor, really is

Bassam Sabbagh:

thanks for for sharing it. And and I want to push it even

Bassam Sabbagh:

further. And I know it's probably going too far. But even

Bassam Sabbagh:

for the factory, my factory that you described, which is a well

Bassam Sabbagh:

oiled machine to start with. The the extra nuance is that if my

Bassam Sabbagh:

screw starts getting loose in my factory, I have the natural,

Bassam Sabbagh:

what's the word, not just ability, but awareness to go fix

Bassam Sabbagh:

it. Right. Somebody else may not even know where the screw is. So

Bassam Sabbagh:

it's kind of a combination of both of these things, because

Bassam Sabbagh:

nothing's perfect. Nothing. Everything wears out eventually.

Bassam Sabbagh:

So yeah, that's a great metaphor. Jean has got his hand

Bassam Sabbagh:

up. I think we're

Nicole York:

Yeah, let's go let's let's grab Yeah, sorry

Nicole York:

that conversation was before we started bringing up friends but

Nicole York:

I'm excited to hear

Unknown:

it Manhattan. This is kind of exciting. I, I made a

Unknown:

mistake last night that kind of relates to what we're talking

Unknown:

about here. You know, when we're talking about temptation I was

Unknown:

talking about walking by the Hershey store in Times Square

Nicole York:

rush, but you can be forgiven for that.

Gene:

Yeah, well, what I can't be forgiven for, you know, we

Gene:

landed last night we get to the hotel. And my wife, you know,

Gene:

had this really excited look on her face, because we were gonna

Gene:

get settled in the hotel, and then walk around times square a

Gene:

little bit, we're staying right right on time square. And so she

Gene:

gets all excited. She's, we're eating in the room. And while

Gene:

we're eating, I jumped on a 24 hour Zoom Room call. Because

Gene:

I've been trying to help out some of the folks with Peter

Gene:

Hurley is doing this NFT thing. So I've been I've been trying to

Gene:

help everyone kind of wrap their head around NF T's and

Gene:

cryptocurrency and how all

Unknown:

this work and how it all. And so I jumped in real

Unknown:

quick and just kind of like walked through the process, how

Unknown:

to move. And I went a little long. And I noticed that I

Unknown:

looked at the corner of my eye and I got to go for a walk. I

Unknown:

realized, you know, my additional response was,

Nicole York:

if you are definitely in Manhattan, can Is

Nicole York:

there any way you microphone a little bit closer?

Unknown:

I'll try I'm on my headphones right now. I'm so

Unknown:

sorry. So I'm walking to Peter Hurley place, I gotta make a

Unknown:

couple of blocks here. But so the the point is, is that, you

Unknown:

know, sometimes I I've learned in the last couple of weeks that

Unknown:

Sam and I are kind of like, we were twins that must have been

Unknown:

separated at birth. I mean, there's so many similarities.

Unknown:

And we have so many things have gone through life that are very

Unknown:

similar. That, you know, he's his experience with the

Unknown:

corporate world. And my experiences are very similar.

Unknown:

And one of the things that I've really suffered with and what I

Unknown:

was thinking about when you were talking earlier. And when Dishon

Unknown:

was talking about trying to put his finger on, I'm gonna get off

Unknown:

the street here. And what Peter was talking with you or the song

Unknown:

was talking about with his corporate world, in, you know,

Unknown:

just being, like, naturally successful, which I'm sure he

Unknown:

wasn't, I mean, everybody worked their butt off in the corporate

Unknown:

world. But the biggest difference that I've learned is,

Unknown:

you know, when you're part of an organization, or a group, it's,

Unknown:

even though you're doing your part, and you may have a very

Unknown:

big role in that organization, it is hard work. But at the end

Unknown:

of the day, you're part of the, you know, you're on a ship, and

Unknown:

the ship is going whatever direction, you know, everyone's

Unknown:

effort is pushing the ship, but you're still on that ship. When

Unknown:

you're by yourself, when you're a creator, and you're a

Unknown:

solopreneur when you're operating on your own, you are

Unknown:

the ship, there's nobody else driving. And you have to make a

Unknown:

lot of those decisions. And you can decide to sit on your couch,

Unknown:

and the ship literally goes nowhere. Or you can decide to

Unknown:

hustle and push it level up. And then you start moving the ship

Unknown:

forward. But that doesn't come naturally for people. And it's

Unknown:

definitely a shock to the system. When you do that, for

Unknown:

the first time. When you when you find yourself all of a

Unknown:

sudden, you know, operating on your own. And you miss that. I

Unknown:

think sometimes I think you miss being part of a larger group

Unknown:

being part of a bigger mission, like you were talking about with

Unknown:

the military, you know, you had no choice i It's unbelievable to

Unknown:

me, I saw somebody took a picture of me doing photos the

Unknown:

other day, and I look at the pictures of me, I'm just like,

Unknown:

My God has put on so much weight since I got out of the military.

Unknown:

I used to run army 10 miles without even training for him.

Unknown:

And now it's like I can barely walk 10 blocks without you know,

Unknown:

being winded. And and so, you know, I I missed that for sure.

Unknown:

And I think that there's something you know, in some

Unknown:

people that I think the answer to what what the song was

Unknown:

looking for, and not to be not the you know, sound like a

Unknown:

cliche, but I really do think that there is a lot to

Unknown:

upbringing, but not just upbringing. I think that there

Unknown:

are people who have really amazing families really amazing

Unknown:

examples to follow in their life who benefit from that. I think

Unknown:

that there are people who have really amazing people and

Unknown:

examples in their life who rebel against it and therefore are not

Unknown:

able to benefit from it. And then on the other side of the

Unknown:

coin, I think there are people who have horrible examples in

Unknown:

their life who don't have the you know, intact families who,

Unknown:

who don't have people in your life that love them, you know

Unknown:

when they're young and give them good examples. And they either

Unknown:

use that as a crutch, or they use that as drive to keep moving

Unknown:

forward. And that's that was me that latter part, the license

Unknown:

plate on my car is the Latin phrase excellent Hilo, which

Unknown:

means out of nothing. And it's a constant reminder to me that I

Unknown:

was homeless at 17, I dropped out of high school, my father

Unknown:

left when I was 10 years old. I don't even know where my mother

Unknown:

is. I mean, this was me, there's no reason other than the US

Unknown:

Army, and I'm not selling drugs, and he's St. Louis Right now,

Unknown:

we're in prison. But, but it was the decision. And and the in the

Unknown:

calling that living well, is the best revenge against anything

Unknown:

that tries to drag you down in life. And that mentality has

Unknown:

driven me and driven me and driven me my entire life. And

Unknown:

the extra Halo saying, to me is a constant reminder that, first

Unknown:

of all, I came out of nothing. And it's really easy to go right

Unknown:

back to nothing, if I do nothing. So I've got to do

Unknown:

something, if that's what keeps me going every day. And what I

Unknown:

realized last night, just how much I miss being in an

Unknown:

environment or situation, where I actually know what I'm talking

Unknown:

about, where I'm where I'm somewhat of an expert in the

Unknown:

room, and can help people. And people can benefit from my

Unknown:

knowledge, when I was in that Zoom call last night talking

Unknown:

about entities and cryptocurrency. And I got

Unknown:

addicted to it. And I forgot that my wife was sitting next to

Unknown:

me wanting to walk out in time square. So it's a very powerful

Unknown:

influence, you know, to be drawn into an environment that you're

Unknown:

very knowledgeable of, and I think we excel in those

Unknown:

environments. But I do try to pull myself out of those comfort

Unknown:

zones. And so here I am trying to become a photographer and a

Unknown:

videographer. So anyway, that's just my two cents and a couple

Unknown:

observations. And I, I do hope that Matt enjoys his boiled

Unknown:

frogs.

Nicole York:

Yeah, I really appreciate your example Jean,

Nicole York:

and sorry for the crunching rocks underfoot, I'm heading

Nicole York:

back toward the pavement. But I really appreciate your example.

Nicole York:

Because it just goes to show that that metaphor of the

Nicole York:

factory is a really apt one. Because sometimes what we begin

Nicole York:

with is not ideal for where we want to go. And then we've got

Nicole York:

decisions to make. And what I think is the most important for

Nicole York:

us to realize, as we, you know, begin to come toward the end of

Nicole York:

this hour is that our factory does not have to stay what it

Nicole York:

is, we are malleable, we get the choice on how we want to change

Nicole York:

and how we want to grow. And that's what I want the end of

Nicole York:

this conversation to be. So after we hear from Erica sauce,

Nicole York:

because she also watched the interview, after we hear that

Nicole York:

we're going to talk about the fact that these habits in these

Nicole York:

systems are things we can build an optimized for, in order to

Nicole York:

make those behavior changes those upgrades to our factory

Nicole York:

easier, and more likely to actually stick and stay and

Nicole York:

benefit us in the long run. So Erica, would love to hear your

Nicole York:

thoughts.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Just before Erica Nicole, I'm going to be

Bassam Sabbagh:

dropping off in about five minutes. I have a meeting with a

Bassam Sabbagh:

client. So I'm just going to quietly drop off but just

Bassam Sabbagh:

thought I'd say that. So go ahead.

Erika:

Yeah, so thank you for the suggestion, Nicole, I'm

Erika:

really glad I watched that video and I enjoyed it. And like you I

Erika:

think I'm going to get the book because I found him relatable

Erika:

and very easy to to understand. And I'm an audiobook person. So

Erika:

I hopefully hopefully that will be helpful as well. But so many

Erika:

great things came from that and I think that you know, of course

Erika:

starting with the mindset that you can do something for me is

Erika:

what helps me with the little habits. And you know, I'm

Erika:

definitely a goal setter. But I think I enjoy the work that goes

Erika:

into working toward it. The process itself rather than

Erika:

reaching the goals because a lot of times I will set my goals,

Erika:

write them down and then not even look at them again until

Erika:

you know that year has passed and but just put in place the

Erika:

little habits that can help get me closer and be happy in those

Erika:

habits not necessarily you know what milestones I'm achieving.

Erika:

Although that helps you know, it does propel me forward. But I

Erika:

find that when I'm not 100% focused on that end goal, but

Erika:

just in the habits that will get me there, I actually reached the

Erika:

goal faster. So. So that was one thing that I thought, you know,

Erika:

in regards to the, the little habits that get you there. And

Erika:

then, and then of course, the tribe, the you know, surrounding

Erika:

yourself with people who have similar goals and who at least

Erika:

understand, they may not have the same goals that you do, but

Erika:

they understand they will help keep you accountable, or at

Erika:

least motivate you to keep going. So those were the two

Erika:

things I pulled most from it. But certainly everything he had

Erika:

to say was amazing.

Nicole York:

Yes, ooh. And Erica, I'm so glad you mentioned

Nicole York:

what you did, because it, it brought up this example for me.

Nicole York:

So you know, you talked about the fact that when you focus on

Nicole York:

those, those habits, or we can even say those systems, right,

Nicole York:

the behaviors, when you focus on those things, you reach your

Nicole York:

goal a lot faster. And there's this really interesting example

Nicole York:

of this. I don't know if people have seen this movie, it's

Nicole York:

called 28 days with Sandra Bullock where she's playing

Nicole York:

alcoholic, and she goes into rehab. And one of the people

Nicole York:

that is there is a pitcher, like a major league pitcher. And she,

Nicole York:

in the in, you know, walks away, and she's throwing baseballs.

Nicole York:

Basically, she's trying to get one through this, this tube or

Nicole York:

something, she's mad, and she's just taking out her energy. And

Nicole York:

he comes along. And he's describing to her what it takes

Nicole York:

to actually throw the ball through the hoop. And basically,

Nicole York:

to simplify all of it, what he says is stop trying to get the

Nicole York:

ball through the hoop, focus on the way you hold the ball, and

Nicole York:

focus on the way you stand. And focus on the way that you turn

Nicole York:

your body and move your hip and move your arm. Don't think about

Nicole York:

the ball going through the hole, think about these small

Nicole York:

behaviors that you can control. Because whether or not the ball

Nicole York:

actually goes through that hoop is dependent on 8 million

Nicole York:

factors that you can't control. Somebody could come along and

Nicole York:

get in between you and the goal. All of these things could

Nicole York:

potentially happen. But what you can control are these little

Nicole York:

behaviors, the way you hold it, the way you stand all that

Nicole York:

stuff. And I think the same thing is true for us that once

Nicole York:

we build systems, patterns of behavior, things that we do, and

Nicole York:

when we believe that we are the kind of people who do these

Nicole York:

things, and then those behaviors become the proof that we are

Nicole York:

that kind of person. All of the sudden, we are focusing now on

Nicole York:

the things we can control and not getting the ball through the

Nicole York:

hoop. And as a result, we master the behaviors. And the goal

Nicole York:

becomes a side product almost.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah, and Nicole, that's, that's great.

Bassam Sabbagh:

And I want to advise, I want to add to that, in that there's

Bassam Sabbagh:

also the aspect of not just the process, but steps and steps

Bassam Sabbagh:

towards the goals or mini goals within that. So an analogy would

Bassam Sabbagh:

be I suck at golf, by the way, but when I go for one thing, I

Bassam Sabbagh:

learned that when you're putting in your let's say 30 feet away

Bassam Sabbagh:

from the hole, yes, focus on how you hold the club focus where

Bassam Sabbagh:

you're aiming. But don't aim for the hole, find something that's

Bassam Sabbagh:

five feet away, and aim for that spot. Because if you hit that

Bassam Sabbagh:

spot, there's a better chance that you're going to hit your

Bassam Sabbagh:

next goal. And on top of holding the club, right, and hitting the

Bassam Sabbagh:

right, you know, with the right force and so on. So it's so

Bassam Sabbagh:

that's another aspect of don't focus on the end goal, just do

Bassam Sabbagh:

the right things, including many goals.

Nicole York:

Right. And I think there's also something really

Nicole York:

important Oh, hello talks, I think there's something also

Nicole York:

really important there, which is, and we talked about this

Nicole York:

before, it's been months now. But we talked about the fact

Nicole York:

that once the goal happens, it's done, right? Like it's over, the

Nicole York:

thing that you were working for is over. And so it only has an

Nicole York:

effect. It's minimal. I mean, you might be able to ride some

Nicole York:

of the, you know, afterglow or some of the success of that

Nicole York:

goal. But it's a really fleeting thing. What stays is the

Nicole York:

journey, like you are in that journey for way, way, way, way

Nicole York:

longer than you're going to enjoy the goal that you've

Nicole York:

reached, because pretty soon, having that goal is going to

Nicole York:

fall down to the level of everyday life again, even if

Nicole York:

that's I bought a house, oh my God, I've wanted to own a house

Nicole York:

my whole life in 15 months. You're not going to have the

Nicole York:

same feeling about that house, especially when you have to

Nicole York:

replace the roof and other things happen right? Even though

Nicole York:

you're still living in the same house. It falls back down to the

Nicole York:

level of normalcy for you. But the patterns of behavior that

Nicole York:

got you to that house, the way that you live your life is the

Nicole York:

thing that stays. And so I talked about the fact that I

Nicole York:

wanted to find a way to have those patterns of behavior that

Nicole York:

I don't hate. Right? That doesn't require me to just be in

Nicole York:

the suck the whole time, which is what going to the gym feels

Nicole York:

like for me and going running feels like for me, it feels like

Nicole York:

being in the suck, I hate it, I don't want to do it. And my end

Nicole York:

goal, this nebulous idea of being fit or being able to do

Nicole York:

whatever is not enough to motivate me to keep going toward

Nicole York:

the thing. I need the process to be enjoyable, or at least to

Nicole York:

have some kind of immediate reward that makes it worthwhile.

Nicole York:

And that's why earlier I mentioned climbing, and I think

Nicole York:

when we're starting to build these systems, these patterns of

Nicole York:

behavior, we want to build them in a way, not only that, we have

Nicole York:

feedback, and we have some kind of positive reward loop that's

Nicole York:

happening. But we have to make sure that those rewards are also

Nicole York:

tied into our values and our goals, right. So what keeps me

Nicole York:

showing up here, five days a week, and walking in the morning

Nicole York:

is you guys being with you guys. And knowing that as a group

Nicole York:

together, we're making a difference in each other's

Nicole York:

lives. And being able to be part of that good thing will keep me

Nicole York:

waking up earlier in the morning, and showing up and

Nicole York:

doing research and being able to talk about topics like this. And

Nicole York:

so no matter where we intend to go, as artists, as business

Nicole York:

people, as entrepreneurs, as human beings,

Nicole York:

we have to remember that if we have struggled. And if we have

Nicole York:

felt like, you know what, the all of these things are

Nicole York:

happening for other people, they don't seem to be happening for

Nicole York:

me, I keep trying and trying, I keep going to the gym, I keep

Nicole York:

getting on these diets, I'm using this as a, you know,

Nicole York:

analogy, I keep doing these things. And I still can't get

Nicole York:

where I want to go, there's a really good chance. First of

Nicole York:

all, I think we need to recognize there's nothing wrong

Nicole York:

with you, you haven't got there yet, there is nothing wrong with

Nicole York:

you, it might just be taking you longer to repair your factory,

Nicole York:

then it took somebody who just began with a factory that was in

Nicole York:

good shape. Okay, so there is nothing wrong with us. If we're

Nicole York:

not where we want it to be. Recognizing that it's time that

Nicole York:

we start loving ourselves enough to put systems in place that we

Nicole York:

not only enjoy, but that give us the daily life that we want to

Nicole York:

live, not just the goal, we're going for some idea of having a

Nicole York:

successful business or, you know, making $200,000 a year or

Nicole York:

whatever it is that this this kind of long term big goal we

Nicole York:

have. But it builds for us the daily life that we want to live,

Nicole York:

where we have the time for the things that we enjoy, and the

Nicole York:

habits that we're building for ourselves, pay us off, not just

Nicole York:

in the long term, but in the short term that they have the

Nicole York:

effect of making everyday life better. And then we know that

Nicole York:

those things, those good things that make today great are also

Nicole York:

going to make tomorrow, great. And five years from now, we're

Nicole York:

going to look up all of the sudden and realize, while I was

Nicole York:

enjoying my life, I also got to where I wanted to go. And I

Nicole York:

didn't hate the journey, it was actually pretty awesome. And

Nicole York:

that doesn't mean that there won't be hard times. And that

Nicole York:

doesn't mean that we are not going to still struggle or have

Nicole York:

some catastrophic failure in our factory, we're going to have to

Nicole York:

go fix that thing. But we know like besom said earlier, when

Nicole York:

you have a good baseline, it's a lot easier for you to tell when

Nicole York:

something goes wrong. And so when you can build those daily

Nicole York:

habits, those patterns of behavior that make everyday life

Nicole York:

pretty good. When something falls off the wire, you're going

Nicole York:

to notice that loose screw before it becomes a broken down

Nicole York:

machine. And if we do those things, I think not only are we

Nicole York:

just going to be happier in our day to day life, but we're going

Nicole York:

to start finding like Erica mentioned we're reaching those

Nicole York:

goals sooner and we're getting the things that we were after

Nicole York:

without really realizing it and this is the mistake that people

Nicole York:

made when that movie and book etc The Secret came out when

Nicole York:

they were talking about manifestation they were making

Nicole York:

it sound like somehow purely your by vibrations and your

Nicole York:

desire for a thing is what was going to bring it about and what

Nicole York:

they fail to recognize is that once You start taking those

Nicole York:

behaviors, you don't even realize that you're doing them

Nicole York:

anymore. That's where the power of those habits come in, all of

Nicole York:

a sudden, you've been doing these things for two months, and

Nicole York:

it just feels to do them, you get up and you go for a walk

Nicole York:

every day you show up here every day, maybe you journal, whatever

Nicole York:

it is, and you forget that you have built these things for

Nicole York:

yourself, they just become part of normal life. So when the good

Nicole York:

thing finally happens, you're like, Whoa, I can't believe it

Nicole York:

happened. When really you were working toward it the whole

Nicole York:

time, you just built the work in a way that you liked doing it.

Nicole York:

And so you had to stop thinking about it, it just became normal.

Nicole York:

So I hope that that, and this idea gives us a little bit of

Nicole York:

hope. And I want to make sure we've got time for final

Nicole York:

thoughts, we realized I brought us to the end of our hour, I

Nicole York:

want to make sure that we have some time for final thoughts. So

Nicole York:

at the end here, y'all what are you thinking? But

Matt Stagliano:

going with the, you know, is it necessary? That

Matt Stagliano:

we've been talking about all week, I don't think there's

Matt Stagliano:

anything that I could possibly say that hasn't been covered

Matt Stagliano:

here. I think some of the analogies and the examples that

Matt Stagliano:

you use Nicole are spot on. And I'm actually going to hopefully,

Matt Stagliano:

once I get a chance to watch that that video is have a longer

Matt Stagliano:

conversation with you and maybe revisit this next week, because

Matt Stagliano:

I really I love this topic. I love talking about it. I kind of

Matt Stagliano:

wish David was here to dump a little bit of his professorial

Matt Stagliano:

psychology on us. But yeah, I love this topic, I think, you

Matt Stagliano:

know, as long as we keep in mind, it's the small steps that

Matt Stagliano:

build into something larger than you really can't go wrong. And

Matt Stagliano:

that applies to every part of life. So that is my very, very

Matt Stagliano:

poor last thought of the day.

Nicole York:

It's not poor. And also, I want to challenge

Nicole York:

something that you said really quickly, because I think it's

Nicole York:

valuable. Is it necessary. Even if you and I say the same thing,

Nicole York:

because you're saying it through the lens of who you are, it

Nicole York:

might connect with people who can't connect with what I say.

Nicole York:

So sometimes even if we're repeating, I think we should not

Nicole York:

be afraid because you being awesome. And you being Matt, the

Nicole York:

way that you say things might connect with somebody in a way

Nicole York:

that I can't. So I don't want you guys to ever be afraid to

Nicole York:

repeat even if it's the same because your example or just the

Nicole York:

way that you put things might be the key that unlocks it for

Nicole York:

somebody so

Matt Stagliano:

I can really appreciate that. Thanks for

Matt Stagliano:

saying that.

Nicole York:

100% gauntlet thrown people don't be afraid to

Nicole York:

say the thing.

Unknown:

I'm always afraid. I'm always afraid to say the thing.

Unknown:

Sometimes my my humor gets in the way of making my point. And

Unknown:

sometimes I get a little long winded. And I just wanted to

Unknown:

add, I apologize for recommending something when I

Unknown:

haven't had a chance to watch the interview that you posted. I

Unknown:

really I'm gonna watch that this weekend, I promise. But I'm

Unknown:

watching a documentary on Netflix right now I'm, that's a

Unknown:

four part series, I'm I'm through the third part. So if

Unknown:

you watch the last part, about the inspiration for the mission

Unknown:

for SpaceX. And one of the things that really jumped out a

Unknown:

couple things jumped out at me, is the first time I really had a

Unknown:

chance to see Jared Isaacson, Isaac moon, kind of up close.

Unknown:

And his his leadership style. And the way that he approached

Unknown:

that vision is fascinating to watch. And one of the things

Unknown:

that really resonated with me that I was reminded of when Sam

Unknown:

was talking about gold, we were talking about bolts in here is

Unknown:

they were going through the initial kickoff briefings for

Unknown:

the mission. And there's, you know, the, there's this concept

Unknown:

that, you know, you like the the the blue or the Blue Origin

Unknown:

mission, you know, just goes up, skips into space for a few

Unknown:

minutes and then comes back down. Well, these guys are going

Unknown:

to, they're going to go to space for three days in orbit the

Unknown:

Earth for three days. And so the question came up as far as

Unknown:

altitude. And they had planned on going, you know, up to near

Unknown:

Earth orbit and an orbiting around the Earth, just below the

Unknown:

space station? Well, Gerris question was, why aren't we

Unknown:

going higher than the space station? And the engineers all

Unknown:

looked at each other? And they were like, well, you know, put

Unknown:

more stress on the, on the spacecraft and you know, there's

Unknown:

more engineering, we got to figure out we have to test that

Unknown:

theory. And we just, you know, Jared just looked around the

Unknown:

room and he's just like, guys, like, what, what's the point? We

Unknown:

want to go to Mars? That's the whole mission here. So if we

Unknown:

can't get up higher than the space station, then what's the

Unknown:

point of this mission? What are we accomplishing other than then

Unknown:

putting four civilians on a rocket and launching them into

Unknown:

space. Like, what are we really? What's the symbolism of this

Unknown:

mission going to be if we can't advance our exploration of space

Unknown:

just that much further than the space station, and the engineers

Unknown:

all looked at each other, and people whispering in their ears

Unknown:

and everything? finally said, okay, okay, Jerry, we're going

Unknown:

to figure that out. And we'll make that happen. Well, what it

Unknown:

what it meant to me was how important really hard goals and

Unknown:

those extension goals wasn't the song was talking about aiming a

Unknown:

little bit further, you know, there's so much symbolism, and

Unknown:

so much impact that setting high goals can have that, I think

Unknown:

that that's another thing that plays into my, it's something

Unknown:

that I've always really resonated with, I've always

Unknown:

tried to set my goals really high. And I thought that was a

Unknown:

brilliant decision on Gerrits Park. And I think it meant a lot

Unknown:

to the crew. And I meant a lot to everybody at SpaceX that they

Unknown:

were able to accomplish that. So I just wanted to bring that up

Unknown:

as a really cool example of, you know, creating a stretch goal

Unknown:

that goes kind of beyond what everybody thought they could do.

Unknown:

It was really cool. Part of the story.

Nicole York:

Yeah, right on. I think certainly, we don't want

Nicole York:

to be afraid, you know, to push ourselves beyond where we think

Nicole York:

we can go. And it's crazy that these small habits and these

Nicole York:

little, remember that the way that you think is a habit, your

Nicole York:

habits of thought, are part of this as well. It's not just the

Nicole York:

behaviors, but it's your habits of thought, because those habits

Nicole York:

of thought lead to behaviors. And so, for him to be able to

Nicole York:

think past where we're at now is pushing us to build the habits

Nicole York:

that will get us there. So definitely an important thing to

Nicole York:

think about. Alright, y'all, Erica, do you have anything

Nicole York:

before we go, I want to make sure I don't leave anybody out.

Erika:

Other than people should listen to that video and

Erika:

possibly read the book. I think this is a great conversation.

Erika:

It's a topic I absolutely love. And because I've seen how my

Erika:

life has changed. By working through things like this by

Erika:

setting the small goals and reaching my my big goals. It's

Erika:

it has been life changing for me, so just do it.

Nicole York:

Heck, yeah. And then on that note, guys, I hope

Nicole York:

that today's conversation was valuable for you. Again, that

Nicole York:

book is atomic habits by Charles clear, I think his name is

Nicole York:

Charles clear is the last name that I do remember that atomic

Nicole York:

habits, the book, The interview was on the School of Greatness

Nicole York:

with Lewis house. So if you you know, head into the YouTubes,

Nicole York:

then you can find it that way. Otherwise, the link is in the

Nicole York:

Facebook group. So if you are in the Facebook group, the artists

Nicole York:

Forge, you can go in there and find that link. And listen to

Nicole York:

that. There is a lot to cover. And we took in a lot of the

Nicole York:

broad points. But but there's so much good information there. And

Nicole York:

so many things that will bring this home for you. And if that

Nicole York:

is something you're interested in, I highly suggest reading it,

Nicole York:

excuse me, because they get to hear my sense nice. Because you

Nicole York:

get to, to really dive deep into this topic and make it it'll

Nicole York:

make it easier for you to make the kind of changes that are

Nicole York:

going to make life better and make it easier to reach your

Nicole York:

goals. So with that being said, y'all are amazing. Thank you so

Nicole York:

much for being here today for coming up and sharing your

Nicole York:

thoughts for listening to me ramble. And I hope that you will

Nicole York:

be back with us bright and early Monday morning at 7am Mountain

Nicole York:

Standard Time for the morning walk and photos hog and you have

Nicole York:

a really amazing, restorative wonderful weekend that you do

Nicole York:

and things that you love and that you go make something

Nicole York:

amazing. And we'll see you Monday morning. Have a great one

Nicole York:

guy's

Matt Stagliano:

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

Matt Stagliano:

discussion moderated by all of us at the artist Forge. We hope

Matt Stagliano:

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

Matt Stagliano:

episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit

Matt Stagliano:

the artist forge.com Go make something incredible

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge

About the Podcast

Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge
How to Critique Art
Learn how mindset, creativity, and visual literacy will help you think like an artist so you can create work you love and build a career that matters; bridging the gap between technique and art.

About your host

Profile picture for Nicole York

Nicole York