Episode 4

full
Published on:

3rd Jan 2022

Falling in Love with the Journey

How much of our daily lives to we ignore as we chase down our goals? How do we stay in love with our journey as artists, business people, and human beings when things get rough? Come discuss these questions with members of the Artist's Forge as we dig deep into what it means to build a life you love living.

Transcript
Matt Stagliano:

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

Matt Stagliano:

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

Matt Stagliano:

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

Matt Stagliano:

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

Matt Stagliano:

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

Matt Stagliano:

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

Matt Stagliano:

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

Matt Stagliano:

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

Matt Stagliano:

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

Matt Stagliano:

us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.

Nicole York:

Welcome, everybody to morning walk and photo talk.

Nicole York:

You're here with the Artists Forge. And we're super excited

Nicole York:

to have yet another conversation today as we work at being the

Nicole York:

bridge between technique and art. So that's kind of formally

Nicole York:

what we're looking at as the artist Forge. We realized

Nicole York:

recently that I think the main goal, when we get together here

Nicole York:

is not necessarily to be kind of a skill based place. There are a

Nicole York:

lot of folks out there who are doing a fantastic job, giving

Nicole York:

people access to places where they can increase their

Nicole York:

technical skills, their ability to nail exposures and work with

Nicole York:

lighting and things like that. And what we want to focus on is

Nicole York:

the philosophy behind why we choose the things that we do as

Nicole York:

artists, why we choose certain lighting, why we choose certain

Nicole York:

compositions thinking like an artist, how do you have to think

Nicole York:

and behave in order to become the kind of artist that you want

Nicole York:

to be. So that is what you know, we focus on here, as you guys

Nicole York:

know, you've been here for a long time. But we're going to

Nicole York:

make it a little,

Nicole York:

a little bit more like the target of the bull's eye as we

Nicole York:

choose topics and conversations and what things we choose to

Nicole York:

cover here. So wanted to let you guys in on that one as we

Nicole York:

continue nailing down that process, that process and our

Nicole York:

purpose. And to that end, today, we are going to be discussing

Nicole York:

the journey falling in love with the journey, we've had a

Nicole York:

conversation similar to this before, where we talked about

Nicole York:

the fact that so often we look at our careers as a series of

Nicole York:

goals, right? We want to reach a $10,000 sale, or we want to get

Nicole York:

hired by this company, or once we have our own studio, we will

Nicole York:

have made it and you know, having those goals is amazing

Nicole York:

because it gives us something to work towards. But often we

Nicole York:

forget that

Nicole York:

the goal only affects our life for a very small amount of time.

Nicole York:

You know, once we've reached that thing,

Nicole York:

it becomes commonplace again, it becomes part of our process one

Nicole York:

more time, it becomes part of the journey as we continue on to

Nicole York:

the next thing. And it's really easy to forget the fact that we

Nicole York:

live that journey every single day. I mean, that's where life

Nicole York:

happens. It doesn't happen in the goals, it happens in the

Nicole York:

journey. The goals just give us waypoints, you know as we move

Nicole York:

through our lives. And so

Nicole York:

those things are sexy, right? Like the goals are sexy, it's

Nicole York:

really easy to want to, to focus on those things to learn how to

Nicole York:

reach them to think about and fantasize about what it's going

Nicole York:

to be like. And also when other people hear about the goals we

Nicole York:

reached, there's, there's motivation in that and

Nicole York:

inspiration in that and there should be.

Nicole York:

But every day when we're in the trenches, when we're slogging

Nicole York:

along when we're, you know, fighting with our, our sense of

Nicole York:

defeat, or when we're battling perfectionism, we're trying not

Nicole York:

to compare ourselves or struggling with clients or

Nicole York:

getting lost in some new piece of work, we're creating or

Nicole York:

sharing something new with our friends, all of these little

Nicole York:

things that happen to us every day. That is the journey.

Nicole York:

And

Nicole York:

if we're going to make it as artists, one of the big factors

Nicole York:

is staying in the game, right? And so many people will fall

Nicole York:

out, they will come and they will live in the art world for a

Nicole York:

little while. And then they'll kind of fall out of the art

Nicole York:

world because as we all know, this is a damn hard place to

Nicole York:

make a living and to build a career. And

Nicole York:

for a while it feels really good, particularly as we're

Nicole York:

mastering things and we're learning these skills. But in a

Nicole York:

way, it's a lot like a marriage. It takes work to stay in.

Nicole York:

It takes a sense of commitment to be here for the long term.

Nicole York:

And if we don't fall in love with the journey of being

Nicole York:

artists with the every day, then the chances of us being able to

Nicole York:

stay here

Nicole York:

For as long as we need to be here, really start to dwindle.

Nicole York:

So today, the discussion is all about being able to fall in love

Nicole York:

with the journey. And there are lots and lots of different ways

Nicole York:

and many things, many tools that we can use to help ourselves

Nicole York:

along. And some I will share that have been shared with me

Nicole York:

from other amazing artists, some we can talk about that are our

Nicole York:

own, or even just a struggle. That's the conversation today.

Nicole York:

So the first thing I want to ask these amazing moderators this

Nicole York:

morning, is when I talk about falling in love with the

Nicole York:

journey. And if we were to even just say normalize the struggle,

Nicole York:

what are the things that y'all think about? And is there

Nicole York:

anything you do that you think helps keep you in love with?

Nicole York:

What it means? Just this this everyday life of being an

Nicole York:

artist?

Cat Ford-Coates:

It's interesting, you know, you talk

Cat Ford-Coates:

about the setting the goals, right? And how like, it becomes

Cat Ford-Coates:

very temporary, right? You get there? And you're like, yes.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Awesome. Oh, now what? Right?

Cat Ford-Coates:

I think it's really important to keep in mind, especially in the

Cat Ford-Coates:

in the sense of the journey, is to keep the vision and the

Cat Ford-Coates:

feeling of what it is that you're doing it for, like

Cat Ford-Coates:

keeping that purpose. But what that that purpose, because the

Cat Ford-Coates:

end result is always shifting.

Cat Ford-Coates:

But what does that feel like?

Cat Ford-Coates:

And hold that vision, a friend of mine, she posted something

Cat Ford-Coates:

yesterday, I think maybe on LinkedIn. And it's about how she

Cat Ford-Coates:

doubled her revenue this year, simply by building a home. And

Cat Ford-Coates:

she's about halfway through of building the house.

Cat Ford-Coates:

But she walks through the space almost every day. And you know,

Cat Ford-Coates:

like with everything happening in the shipping world, and in

Cat Ford-Coates:

the construction world, everything is delayed like 27

Cat Ford-Coates:

times, you know, the original

Cat Ford-Coates:

quote, but she walked through every day, and she just

Cat Ford-Coates:

envisioned living there, and what it's gonna feel like to

Cat Ford-Coates:

have her own home instead of renting. And what that that

Cat Ford-Coates:

space is inevitably going to feel like with her family, and

Cat Ford-Coates:

so on and so forth. And that's actually given her the impetus

Cat Ford-Coates:

that she needs to reach the the tangible, scalable, like,

Cat Ford-Coates:

measurable goal piece. And I think that's an important thing

Cat Ford-Coates:

to remember, you know, what does it feel like when when you're

Cat Ford-Coates:

accomplishing or when you're learning? Or when you're going

Cat Ford-Coates:

through the things on the journey? Is Why are you doing

Cat Ford-Coates:

it? What's what's the point?

Nicole York:

That's a really, really important question, cat.

Nicole York:

And one, I think, I think a lot of us probably feel the point

Nicole York:

intuitively, like, we probably know the difference between when

Nicole York:

we're making art and when we're doing anything else when we're

Nicole York:

working for ourselves versus when we're doing anything else.

Nicole York:

And

Nicole York:

I don't know how many of us actually ask ourselves that

Nicole York:

question. Right? Like, what's the point? Why this? Why this

Nicole York:

over everything else? And which is exactly why when I'm doing

Nicole York:

interviews, that is the last question I asked the artists

Nicole York:

that I talked to, that is what is your why? Because that is

Nicole York:

what it comes down to? Why are you doing this and not working?

Nicole York:

As an architect or anything else that you could be doing? There's

Nicole York:

a million ways ways to make a living? Why this? So is that

Nicole York:

something you have settled for yourself cat? Like, when it

Nicole York:

comes down to purpose?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Yes, and no.

Cat Ford-Coates:

I mean, I definitely have a purpose in my work. You know,

Cat Ford-Coates:

and it's about the impact that I have. I'm a big believer in the

Cat Ford-Coates:

butterfly effect. And knowing that, that every time I'm able

Cat Ford-Coates:

to give somebody the experience that I create for my clients and

Cat Ford-Coates:

be intentional with the artwork that we create, they then take

Cat Ford-Coates:

that experience in the confidence that they feel in

Cat Ford-Coates:

that space, and take that back out into the world into their

Cat Ford-Coates:

families into their businesses into, you know, insert their

Cat Ford-Coates:

network here, right, and how does that affect how they move

Cat Ford-Coates:

through the world? Even if it's something completely private,

Cat Ford-Coates:

and just for them, there's still a how do you have a tangible

Cat Ford-Coates:

emotional response

Cat Ford-Coates:

that they use to make choices and move through the world on

Cat Ford-Coates:

their terms?

Cat Ford-Coates:

But at the end of the day, I do that because I know that impact,

Cat Ford-Coates:

you know, resonates and builds like compounding interest

Cat Ford-Coates:

on itself, but also,

Cat Ford-Coates:

you know, I think it's, it's important to remember that I do

Cat Ford-Coates:

that. Because at some point in my life, right, you know, I

Cat Ford-Coates:

mean, many people have have heard my story and talk about

Cat Ford-Coates:

getting laid off and not being able to find a job beyond

Cat Ford-Coates:

working like for temporary gigs as a bartender.

Cat Ford-Coates:

But at some point, you know, you turn around and you're like, why

Cat Ford-Coates:

am I killing myself for somebody else?

Cat Ford-Coates:

And I think that's, that's something that a lot of

Cat Ford-Coates:

entrepreneurs come to question is, why can't I do this for

Cat Ford-Coates:

myself.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And when they choose to step into that entrepreneurial

Cat Ford-Coates:

journey, rather, as an artist or otherwise, it's because they're

Cat Ford-Coates:

able to bet on themselves.

Cat Ford-Coates:

To see what is possible, instead of just relying on the work in a

Cat Ford-Coates:

corporation or otherwise, like my dad, he is big time can't,

Cat Ford-Coates:

could never figure it out. Like he is a brilliant businessman.

Cat Ford-Coates:

But he could never get past the

Cat Ford-Coates:

sorry, I have like all of these group texts coming in.

Cat Ford-Coates:

He could never get past the lack of a guarantee on a paycheck.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And that gave him too much anxiety to trust himself enough

Cat Ford-Coates:

to build a business. So he chose to stay in the corporate world

Cat Ford-Coates:

was able to retire pretty early, I think he retired like 47,

Cat Ford-Coates:

which makes me want to punch myself in the face. But

Cat Ford-Coates:

that being said, he couldn't he couldn't get past himself long

Cat Ford-Coates:

enough to trust the journey of an entrepreneur. Whereas one of

Cat Ford-Coates:

his biggest pride points with me, is the fact that I have

Cat Ford-Coates:

stayed this path, and continue to bet on myself, will I retire

Cat Ford-Coates:

at 47? God, that would be amazing witness.

Nicole York:

Man, yes. The dream. I know, I so much

Nicole York:

identify with that, you know, my husband is really the same way.

Nicole York:

He's, he's an amazing man and an incredible, one of those people

Nicole York:

who has worked with a purpose, you know, like a purpose in his

Nicole York:

heart where he knows he's doing things for people, and that he's

Nicole York:

kind of serving something greater than himself. But he is

Nicole York:

the same as your dad, he prefers knowing and having that the

Nicole York:

comfort of a check that he can count on, as opposed to, as

Nicole York:

opposed to the uncertainty sometimes of trusting what

Nicole York:

you're doing. And I think I think you're absolutely right,

Nicole York:

knowing that you are betting on yourself and trusting yourself,

Nicole York:

man, that is, that is such a huge benefit of what we do. And

Nicole York:

obviously, every benefit comes with risk. And that certainly

Nicole York:

comes with a risk. But I think you're right. And that's one of

Nicole York:

those things that we can look back and rely on.

Unknown:

As a way to make sure that we stay in love with what

Unknown:

we're doing. Right. And if I'm going to, if I'm going to live,

Unknown:

sorry, that was the sound of my teapot. If I'm going to live a

Unknown:

life that I love, knowing that I can rely on myself and count on

Unknown:

myself, and I get to be the master of my fate and what I'm

Unknown:

doing, it's huge way for me to stay in love with the process,

Unknown:

especially when I look at what it feels like and remember what

Unknown:

it felt like to to work for someone else, as opposed to what

Unknown:

it feels like when I'm working for me. And knowing the impact I

Unknown:

can have on other people like you, you get to change the world

Unknown:

a little bit one portrait at a time.

Nicole York:

That's a pretty incredible feeling. So I think

Nicole York:

that's a really fantastic way to keep yourself in love with the

Nicole York:

journey, even in those times when it can really feel like a

Nicole York:

struggle.

Cat Ford-Coates:

It does. And then there are those days to

Cat Ford-Coates:

where you're like I can't believe I've done this to

Cat Ford-Coates:

myself, this would be so much easier if like somebody else

Cat Ford-Coates:

would do the work for me, right? I want somebody else to handle

Cat Ford-Coates:

the sales, I want somebody else to handle the marketing. I want

Cat Ford-Coates:

somebody else to take the responsibility that I've given

Cat Ford-Coates:

myself because I just can't do it anymore. And that's a hard

Cat Ford-Coates:

place to be you know, we all all have those those parts of the

Cat Ford-Coates:

journey where we're just like, why am I here?

Cat Ford-Coates:

But it's an asking yourself that question.

Cat Ford-Coates:

At least when you mean it instead of just like being

Cat Ford-Coates:

frustrated and shouting it out at the sky. But when you really

Cat Ford-Coates:

just look internally and like okay, what why am I here? Why am

Cat Ford-Coates:

I in this space and why am I choosing to move forward? And

Cat Ford-Coates:

maybe the answer is I don't think I want to anymore and

Cat Ford-Coates:

that's okay too.

Cat Ford-Coates:

But it's about having that that brutal honesty with yourself

Cat Ford-Coates:

about the

Cat Ford-Coates:

impact that you do want to have

Cat Ford-Coates:

that, that really sort of shakes things up and changes the game.

Nicole York:

100% 100%.

Nicole York:

And,

Nicole York:

you know, as you just mentioned, something that I think it's

Nicole York:

important for us to tackle and maybe we won't tackle this

Nicole York:

today, but

Nicole York:

I've had a lot of people ask, How do you know when it's time

Nicole York:

to give up? How do you know when it's time to be done? Or when

Nicole York:

this journey is over? And a friend of mine? I think it was,

Nicole York:

I think it was Megan DiPiro, it might have been somebody else.

Nicole York:

But she basically said, you know, when the idea of giving

Nicole York:

up, holds relief and not regret.

Unknown:

And I was like, oof, well, that's a thing to think

Unknown:

about. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's certainly so many times,

Unknown:

and I'm sure for most of us, you know, as we as we kind of slog

Unknown:

forward and struggle along, there have been times when we're

Unknown:

like, God, it would be so much easier just to go get a job

Unknown:

somewhere and not fight this fight all the damn time. But

Unknown:

then when you think about the idea of everything that you've

Unknown:

built, and everything that you are building, and walking away

Unknown:

from it, and putting down your camera, there's this sense of

Unknown:

No, God, I don't want to do that. There's so much more I

Unknown:

have yet to do you know how to finish the book. If I don't

Unknown:

paint this thing, I just, I can't live with myself. And that

Unknown:

idea in a way is, is kind of terrifying. So I, I mean, I

Unknown:

think that that's a not a bad measuring stick to use to go.

Unknown:

And now it's not time yet. And if the idea of giving up makes

Unknown:

you feel like, at last I you know, maybe I'll be able to

Unknown:

paint just for me, and have this as a love again, and not a

Unknown:

business again. Oh, yeah. Then maybe, maybe, you know, it's

Unknown:

something we're thinking about. So I noticed Carolyn has joined

Unknown:

us. Hi, Carolyn, good morning. What are your thoughts this

Unknown:

morning on how we fall in love with the journey?

Carolyn Gallo:

Good morning, I was just going to kind of say

Carolyn Gallo:

what you just said, Nicole.

Carolyn Gallo:

I, my part of the journey right now was I had to go back into

Carolyn Gallo:

the working world.

Unknown:

And

Carolyn Gallo:

that was a hard decision, but an easy decision

Carolyn Gallo:

because I have a child to take care of that needs insurance and

Carolyn Gallo:

all of that other stuff that comes with working a job. And

Carolyn Gallo:

it was interesting when when your friends said, you know when

Carolyn Gallo:

it becomes a relief, because I didn't give up on being an

Carolyn Gallo:

artist, I'm an artist is in my DNA. It isn't. Because I get

Carolyn Gallo:

paid for it. I'm an artist, to my soul.

Carolyn Gallo:

But it was a relief when

Carolyn Gallo:

and also a frustration going back to work being able to

Carolyn Gallo:

provide for my daughter, and I can still be an artist, maybe

Carolyn Gallo:

not the artist that I want to be at this point in my life. But

Carolyn Gallo:

for right now, this is what I have to do. And finally making

Carolyn Gallo:

that decision was a relief for me. Now, I'm working on getting

Carolyn Gallo:

back to being a working artist, rather than just an artist in my

Carolyn Gallo:

head.

Nicole York:

Oh, Carolyn, thank you so much for sharing that.

Nicole York:

And I think that's really, really important

Nicole York:

for us to remember that sometimes, part of the journey

Nicole York:

of being an artist means that we do have to take on other things

Nicole York:

for a while. You know, as you know, I was working for pro EU

Nicole York:

for the last part of the year in the beginning of this year. And

Nicole York:

that was an amazing boon to my family during the pandemic, you

Nicole York:

know, that was a huge gift to us. And, and I mean, I don't

Nicole York:

regret that for a second. It allowed us to do and save and

Nicole York:

etc. A lot of things we would not have been able to do

Nicole York:

otherwise. And during that time, I did not have the chance to

Nicole York:

express my soul as much. But it provided something really

Nicole York:

important for my family. And so that was an important thing for

Nicole York:

us to do at that time. And there are times when we do need to

Nicole York:

know

Nicole York:

when we have to take a side quest, right? It doesn't mean

Nicole York:

that we stop being an artist, like you said, it just means

Nicole York:

that we're taking a side quest. We'll be back. We never really

Nicole York:

we never left the end goal of making art. We can't stop being

Nicole York:

who we are. We just have to do something else for a little

Nicole York:

while and that's okay too. So, I'm really grateful that you

Nicole York:

brought that up. I want to make sure that we also get some

Nicole York:

feedback from the rest of the panelists to, and then we'll

Nicole York:

start bringing up more folks gmsc Your hand, don't worry, my

Nicole York:

friend, I will grab you. But I also want to make sure we have a

Nicole York:

chance to hear from Assam and Matt and Becca.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah.

Unknown:

I,

Bassam Sabbagh:

when I think about the why, you know, given

Bassam Sabbagh:

my situation today, where I've had a long, you know, corporate

Bassam Sabbagh:

career I did well, in my career, I'm semi retired in the sense

Bassam Sabbagh:

that I have a pension coming in and I design my, my, I'm still

Bassam Sabbagh:

relatively young, so I'm still going to be working. But I

Bassam Sabbagh:

designed my second career in a way that suits what I want to do

Bassam Sabbagh:

in life and what gives me joy. That's why I do photography,

Bassam Sabbagh:

because because I'm driven by by that passion, but I'm also it

Bassam Sabbagh:

kind of, it kind of defines my why it's one way to arrive. At

Bassam Sabbagh:

what gives me joy. And, but but really, and I do it for that

Bassam Sabbagh:

reason, it's obvious to me, but what really has has been on my

Bassam Sabbagh:

mind lately, and it's not a it's not a matter of I'm not

Bassam Sabbagh:

struggling with it, it's just something I think about is that

Bassam Sabbagh:

do I really need to make it a business to because the why I do

Bassam Sabbagh:

it will be there, whether I make it a business, or whether I just

Bassam Sabbagh:

do it as a as a hobby and deliver the same service and

Bassam Sabbagh:

deliver the same,

Bassam Sabbagh:

I guess, impact or have the same impact on the people I have

Bassam Sabbagh:

through my photography. So so it's a struggle, or not a

Bassam Sabbagh:

struggle, but it's it's a choice that I make to actually make it

Bassam Sabbagh:

a business. And then I wonder why is that and I know, money's

Bassam Sabbagh:

important. And I you know, it's not like I'm gonna starve if I

Bassam Sabbagh:

don't do this. But But I realized that there's another

Bassam Sabbagh:

wise it might, you know, there's an I need to satisfy both, and

Bassam Sabbagh:

that's why I, I do that. And the other Why is my personal need to

Bassam Sabbagh:

feel.

Bassam Sabbagh:

You know, I've always been the breadwinner in my house, while

Bassam Sabbagh:

at least the majority breadwinner I've always

Bassam Sabbagh:

provided, and I feel that I one of the wise I do it is because I

Bassam Sabbagh:

need to satisfy that need, I need to feel that I'm still

Bassam Sabbagh:

relevant, I need to feel that I can still contribute. And I

Bassam Sabbagh:

think that kind of balances out and kind of drives me to make it

Bassam Sabbagh:

a business. And and and feel that accomplishment that not

Bassam Sabbagh:

only am I providing the service and and the impact I have on

Bassam Sabbagh:

people through my photography, but I can still

Bassam Sabbagh:

you know, run a business, make it a business, make money, and

Bassam Sabbagh:

and and satisfy that need in me.

Nicole York:

Yeah,

Nicole York:

that's a really good point, Bassam. And

Nicole York:

I think it's great for us to remember that this is always

Nicole York:

more than one thing. Because if it's just to make, we don't have

Nicole York:

to choose to do that for a living, right. There's always

Nicole York:

more considerations that come into whether or not we choose to

Nicole York:

take this thing that we love and make it a business and affect

Nicole York:

people through our business rather than just through, you

Nicole York:

know, the making and sharing of art, because that's certainly

Nicole York:

something any of us can do, no matter what we do for a living.

Nicole York:

So, you know, understanding those parts of ourselves and

Nicole York:

knowing why we choose those things, certainly is a really

Nicole York:

great way to keep us on that path. I mean,

Nicole York:

there are a lot of ways that we could also choose to make a

Nicole York:

living, most of us are multi talented, and there are things

Nicole York:

that we can do in other ways as well. I know, you know, many of

Nicole York:

us came from something else before we moved into the art

Nicole York:

world and we could do those things too. But there's, you

Nicole York:

know, multiple reasons that being an artist for a living

Nicole York:

becomes the choice and keeping those other reasons in mind as

Nicole York:

well. I mean, those things are our powerful, powerful

Nicole York:

motivators, right.

Bekka Bjorke:

Can I just say, yeah, go ahead. Oh, yeah, so I

Bekka Bjorke:

found it very interesting that

Bekka Bjorke:

everyone is talking about the the process of becoming a

Bekka Bjorke:

professional working artists and making a living there. And that

Bekka Bjorke:

is not when my mind went about the journey at all.

Nicole York:

Good, we have a multiple ways. So that's why

Nicole York:

there's all of us here today.

Bekka Bjorke:

I know Bassam can finish also, I just I thought

Bekka Bjorke:

that was absolutely fascinating thinking about like, you know

Bekka Bjorke:

where those goals are and how the conversation is turned into

Bekka Bjorke:

the the goal of being a professional. And all I can

Bekka Bjorke:

think about is like how do I stay in love with art?

Unknown:

Not necessarily. How do I stay in love with making money

Unknown:

out of art?

Nicole York:

Yes. That's yeah, okay. Good. I'm so glad that you

Nicole York:

brought that up, Becca, because this I mean, this conversation

Nicole York:

needs to be holistic. And when I asked the question, you know,

Nicole York:

that's why sometimes I know you guys will pick it me a little

Nicole York:

bit and be like, Could you be more specific? Well, there's a

Nicole York:

reason that I leave these things open, because part of the

Nicole York:

conversation becomes what comes right to you. Right? Like, what

Nicole York:

is when when you hear that thing? What is the first thing

Nicole York:

that comes to mind? Because we should know about ourselves that

Nicole York:

those immediate gut reaction things mean, something is

Nicole York:

important to us. Like, if that is what pops into our head,

Nicole York:

then, then that's an important thing for us. It doesn't mean

Nicole York:

it's the end all be all. But it obviously means that that is the

Nicole York:

biggest bubble, right? Like, that's the thing that's going to

Nicole York:

come to the surface first. And knowing that about ourselves is

Nicole York:

really important, because it gives us a kind of a roadmap. So

Nicole York:

So Becca knows that if this is a question she needs to ask for

Nicole York:

herself, she has to drill down to staying in love with the art

Nicole York:

itself. And if you're looking for information, or if you're

Nicole York:

looking to grow, understanding how we answer those questions,

Nicole York:

becomes a really important signpost. So I'm super glad you

Nicole York:

brought that up. But Sam, I want to give you a chance to respond.

Nicole York:

And then Becca, I really, really want to hear what you have to

Nicole York:

say.

Unknown:

Oh, I noticed you muted yourself to feel free to jump

Unknown:

in.

Bassam Sabbagh:

You know, I don't have much to say I just

Bassam Sabbagh:

want to say I mean it. I'm finished saying what I'm saying.

Bassam Sabbagh:

But again, it I just want to re emphasize it's not that it for

Bassam Sabbagh:

me. I know you didn't mean it exactly that way back. But it's

Bassam Sabbagh:

not about the love of money. It's about that feeling of being

Bassam Sabbagh:

able to, to continue to provide and be relevant in that sphere.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Right. It's not about the money itself. It's it's what, you

Bassam Sabbagh:

know, it's it's what I need as a as a as a

Nicole York:

as validation, I would say, all right. Oh,

Nicole York:

totally, totally. Yeah. It wasn't like, no, no, I get it.

Nicole York:

You know, no, not like that. I just imagine Bisaya Scrooge with

Nicole York:

his piles of money. Oh, yeah.

Unknown:

That's

Nicole York:

one of the most generous men I know, sitting

Nicole York:

around hoarding his wealth.

Bekka Bjorke:

I mean, I've definitely had to do, I've had

Bekka Bjorke:

to, you know, work other jobs and like, be a functional living

Bekka Bjorke:

human being also, I mean, those are legitimate concerns, when

Bekka Bjorke:

you are actually running a business and you go through all

Bekka Bjorke:

the processes of, you know, having a legal functioning, self

Bekka Bjorke:

sustaining business, it's hard, and it's scary.

Bekka Bjorke:

And it takes a lot of work. And that part is less we've talked

Bekka Bjorke:

about a lot like where a lot of artists tend to struggle. And

Bekka Bjorke:

that is a really important part of that journey to be in love

Bekka Bjorke:

with because I think a lot of artists just aren't, we've

Bekka Bjorke:

touched on that multiple times about all the all the struggles

Bekka Bjorke:

of running the business.

Bekka Bjorke:

But I interested to know if anyone else has had problems

Bekka Bjorke:

with the, the art of being in love with art. And like, like

Bekka Bjorke:

Carolyn said, I'm very much in that same vein of like, I don't

Bekka Bjorke:

care if I don't ever make another dollar, like I will be

Bekka Bjorke:

an artist, I will be a photographer until I croak like

Bekka Bjorke:

that's just part of who I am. And

Bekka Bjorke:

I don't think I could ever not necessarily be in love with it.

Bekka Bjorke:

But I have when working had times where I didn't

Bekka Bjorke:

particularly like the art that I was creating.

Bekka Bjorke:

And so that is something in the in the business process that is

Bekka Bjorke:

kind of interesting thing about I was working for a studio when

Bekka Bjorke:

I was younger, and we did like model portfolios, and we would

Bekka Bjorke:

turn out like,

Bekka Bjorke:

God, it was just like so high volume, we just like crank

Bekka Bjorke:

through all these like teenage

Bekka Bjorke:

models who were like trying to develop a portfolio, we go

Bekka Bjorke:

through like 2030 a day, it was absolutely insane. And it was

Bekka Bjorke:

photography, I made a lot of money. I thought it was like the

Bekka Bjorke:

dream job. And then I hated it, I hated the photos I took

Bekka Bjorke:

because they were so dull to me, there was no creativity there.

Bekka Bjorke:

And that, you know, it was just kind of a learning experience

Bekka Bjorke:

for me, like, Oh, I've made it as a photographer, you know, I

Bekka Bjorke:

have this nice job I get to travel, it's so great. And I

Bekka Bjorke:

don't actually like the photography of it at all.

Bekka Bjorke:

So like sticking to that entrepreneurial path for me has

Bekka Bjorke:

been really important and I've never bored with it. You know? I

Bekka Bjorke:

I'm always in love with it. Um, I completely lost where I was

Bekka Bjorke:

going with this tangent.

Bekka Bjorke:

But yeah, I just I found it very interesting. You know that that

Bekka Bjorke:

difference in where the conversation took this morning

Bekka Bjorke:

and you know, staying in love with the business versus staying

Bekka Bjorke:

in love with the art. So I'm just curious, I guess if anyone

Bekka Bjorke:

else sees those roads differently or you know, has an

Bekka Bjorke:

issue one way or the other, you know,

Nicole York:

I think it's really interesting. Oh, go ahead cat

Nicole York:

and I'll

Cat Ford-Coates:

I'm actually really glad that you brought it

Cat Ford-Coates:

up Becca, because I was remembering being a kid. And

Cat Ford-Coates:

like one Christmas I got a paint set right and it had acrylics or

Cat Ford-Coates:

acrylics, oils and charcoals

Cat Ford-Coates:

and maybe pastels too. But I remember sitting down and just

Cat Ford-Coates:

like, you couldn't stop me from creating, right and I would sit

Cat Ford-Coates:

there and I would mix all the things I would mix the the

Cat Ford-Coates:

acrylics and the oils. And people were like, God don't do

Cat Ford-Coates:

that. I was like, Whatever, I'm just making things.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Because as a creator, right, like, that's just what you do

Cat Ford-Coates:

you make the things and you know, when you learn the rules,

Cat Ford-Coates:

then you know, things change. But as you go down that that

Cat Ford-Coates:

entrepreneurial aspect of things, like you were talking

Cat Ford-Coates:

about, you know, doing all of those folios for models and

Cat Ford-Coates:

making a boatload of money, but like you weren't doing it on

Cat Ford-Coates:

your terms. And that's really where that shift happens is as

Cat Ford-Coates:

an entrepreneur, and a business owner, you get to decide which

Cat Ford-Coates:

clients to take on. And then you get that the hurdles become the

Cat Ford-Coates:

sustainability of it, and all of the things. So when you're

Cat Ford-Coates:

cookie, cutting all the things, that's when the fallout happens

Cat Ford-Coates:

when you're just like, this fucking sucks. Everybody wants

Cat Ford-Coates:

the same thing.

Cat Ford-Coates:

This is what I'm expected to produce. And I don't love any of

Cat Ford-Coates:

it. Oh, but thanks for paying, right.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And so being able to give yourself the breath,

Cat Ford-Coates:

to create what it is that your soul is after, right allows you

Cat Ford-Coates:

to stay in that space of loving what it is that you do. And, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, for a long time I was in the space of Well, unless I'm

Cat Ford-Coates:

getting paid in some way, shape or form, I'm not going to do it.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Right. Like, I'm only going to do a gift voucher situation. And

Cat Ford-Coates:

Robert Ra. And that's it. And then once I realized, like,

Cat Ford-Coates:

well, I could do that. Or I could also just create for the

Cat Ford-Coates:

sake of creation and just share that with the model with the

Cat Ford-Coates:

team with the world. That was when I was able to find into

Cat Ford-Coates:

that flow, where I I do get to to leverage the the artist part

Cat Ford-Coates:

of me that wants to create for the sake of creating without

Cat Ford-Coates:

having to worry about the sustainability of it in the

Cat Ford-Coates:

business. Whether or not the business is sustainable already.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Does that make sense?

Bekka Bjorke:

100% 100%. And that's exactly the feeling.

Nicole York:

And this is super important conversation, guys.

Nicole York:

Because it really drives home, the fact that the path that we

Nicole York:

take toward staying in love with what we're doing is going to be

Nicole York:

so highly dependent on who we are and what our experiences

Nicole York:

are. And for some of us, you know, I've got some friends who

Nicole York:

their life as a photographer is not an entrepreneurial aspect,

Nicole York:

they work for a company they produce, you know, for that

Nicole York:

company, that's when they shoot. And then you know, they may make

Nicole York:

things for themselves on on their free time. But it

Nicole York:

certainly does become a struggle for them to stay in love with

Nicole York:

what they're doing, because the expression that they're allowed

Nicole York:

in those circumstances is certainly not as broad as it

Nicole York:

would be otherwise. But they don't have either the desire or

Nicole York:

the freedom to create purely based on you know, what they

Nicole York:

want and try to earn their own money that way. And I know some

Nicole York:

other folks and I know I've mentioned this before, Tyler

Nicole York:

Jacobson, who is a commercial illustrator, told me, you know,

Nicole York:

because obviously his work is highly creative. He gets to do

Nicole York:

things like paint, you know, the covers for d&d books and design

Nicole York:

characters and do all of this fun stuff. But, you know, he has

Nicole York:

talked to me often about the fact that it's important for him

Nicole York:

to be able to step aside even from this stuff. I mean, that's

Nicole York:

where the guy lives, his life. He practices, you know,

Nicole York:

Historical European Martial Arts, there's swords all over as

Nicole York:

well. He's a pop culture nerd, he lives in this world. But even

Nicole York:

he still needs to step aside and just create for himself

Nicole York:

sometimes to remind himself that painting is fun, and that it's

Nicole York:

not just a job. And so, you know, for him to stay in love

Nicole York:

with the journey of being an artist. Whether that encompasses

Nicole York:

work for us as well, or whether that encompasses just staying in

Nicole York:

love with the art itself. He has to build that into the way that

Nicole York:

he lives and works. Because the fact that he earns money from

Nicole York:

his art means that sometimes he's not always doing what he

Nicole York:

wants to do. And there's pressure involved in the making

Nicole York:

of art that doesn't exist when we get to just come home and

Nicole York:

play with our paints. And so each of us have to be able to

Nicole York:

look at this particular journey that we're on and understand

Nicole York:

ourselves and what we need from this experience well enough to

Nicole York:

know where we need to change things and build in those other

Nicole York:

avenues that that hit the benchmarks for us to keep us in

Nicole York:

love. Soimportant.

Bekka Bjorke:

Just a little are to backtrack to where my brain

Bekka Bjorke:

is.

Bekka Bjorke:

Originally, and that same, that same vein there

Bekka Bjorke:

the conversation, start talking about goals, right and like, you

Bekka Bjorke:

know, how to say love the journey from large goals to

Bekka Bjorke:

large goal. And just for me personally, I have always been

Bekka Bjorke:

less interested in those large goals. And I think that's where

Bekka Bjorke:

that divergence kind of happened for me, where, you know, if

Bekka Bjorke:

you're working for a larger company, you have your larger

Bekka Bjorke:

quarterly goals or whatever, blah, blah, blah, versus when

Bekka Bjorke:

working more creatively, like the work that I do now. I'm not

Bekka Bjorke:

I have the large goals, which are important for, you know, the

Bekka Bjorke:

sake of growth. But each individual art piece, each step

Bekka Bjorke:

in that process is its own goal in itself for me, and that is

Bekka Bjorke:

definitely, probably where that love and that value falls for me

Bekka Bjorke:

personally, where instead of it's like, I need to make X

Bekka Bjorke:

amount of money by this date, and then reassess, you know, how

Bekka Bjorke:

my business is working, what I mean, changing, whatever, but

Bekka Bjorke:

yada, yada? It's okay, where am I getting my information? Like,

Bekka Bjorke:

what research am I doing for which project? Each of those is

Bekka Bjorke:

a small goal that is so exciting to me, that it keeps that

Bekka Bjorke:

excitement rolling all the time. So even, you know, working

Bekka Bjorke:

further, you know, for clients, which yes, other people tell me

Bekka Bjorke:

what to do, and I do it for them. But there's these smaller

Bekka Bjorke:

goals within each of those projects on, you know, a daily

Bekka Bjorke:

weekly basis for me that are really fun and really exciting.

Bekka Bjorke:

It's always something new, instead of putting my focus on

Bekka Bjorke:

larger, long term goals and getting feeling like I'm

Bekka Bjorke:

dragging my feet to get there.

Unknown:

Yeah, yeah, that's a great one as well. And so, so

Unknown:

far, we're gonna have Gean share, and then Larry, and then

Unknown:

Erica. But before that, I just want to kind of reiterate some

Unknown:

of the things that we've talked about so far, in this topic of

Unknown:

making sure or learning how to fall in love with the journey.

Unknown:

And the reason that I brought up goals is because that is one of

Unknown:

the things that often gets touted to us as things that we

Unknown:

should be keeping in mind as artists. And, and that's where a

Unknown:

lot of the discussion lies. And a lot of the discussion tends to

Unknown:

fall away from just that day to day and you're so right, Becca,

Unknown:

being able to look at the individual things that we're

Unknown:

working on. And those small steps, each one step we take

Unknown:

forward as the goal in and of itself, then kind of becomes the

Unknown:

path, you know. So that's an important thing for us to do.

Unknown:

Understanding our motivations is an important thing for us to do.

Unknown:

And remembering that those are not just tied to the art

Unknown:

themselves, like the Psalm said, that that need to be a provider

Unknown:

is included in what is important about this journey for him.

Unknown:

Like Cat said, understanding the underlying motivations there,

Unknown:

knowing why it's important for this to be the career and not

Unknown:

something else, those things are important. And all of those are

Unknown:

steps that we can take to help us stay in love with this

Unknown:

journey of being artists, whether that includes you know,

Unknown:

monetary income for us or not. So, I want to go ahead and grab

Unknown:

gene and then we'll follow up with Larry and Erica.

Gene Sizemore:

Good morning. So, tobaccos point in on this, this

Gene Sizemore:

question of,

Unknown:

you know,

Gene Sizemore:

staying in love with the art I, I've said this

Gene Sizemore:

many times that, you know, for me personally, I've I find that

Gene Sizemore:

there's three different kinds of photography. For me, there's the

Gene Sizemore:

photography, that pays the bills, there's the photography

Gene Sizemore:

that I'm really good at. And then there's the photography

Gene Sizemore:

that I really enjoy doing. And obviously, you know, when

Gene Sizemore:

someone can find a genre of photography that hits all three

Gene Sizemore:

of those, I think that's really where you've reached nirvana.

Gene Sizemore:

But for many of us, you know, the photography that pays the

Gene Sizemore:

bills, serves as a facilitator, to give us the freedom to do the

Gene Sizemore:

things that we want to do, the photography that we're good at

Gene Sizemore:

creating, that we're good at, oftentimes serves to build, you

Gene Sizemore:

know, our confidence and gives us an environment where we can

Gene Sizemore:

showcase what we can do.

Gene Sizemore:

And, and then the photography that we really enjoy doing is

Gene Sizemore:

really the fuel that we have to keep doing in order to stay

Gene Sizemore:

motivated as a creator. And so it's sort of like, when you

Gene Sizemore:

could break away from the things that you have to do and do

Gene Sizemore:

something that's really fun, that you really enjoy doing.

Gene Sizemore:

It's like, it's like putting fuel back in the tank. And then

Gene Sizemore:

for me, when there's a difference between what I'm good

Gene Sizemore:

at doing and what I really enjoy doing, that ends up being part

Gene Sizemore:

of the journey. For me, that's where some of my goals come

Gene Sizemore:

from, because I want to bridge that gap. I really want to be

Gene Sizemore:

good at what I enjoy doing. I'm not always good at what I enjoy

Gene Sizemore:

doing. And so that gives me something to work towards. And

Gene Sizemore:

so that's sort of the model that I've

Gene Sizemore:

sort of visualized my transition into, you know, from corporate

Gene Sizemore:

from the corporate world into being an entrepreneur

Gene Sizemore:

As a photographer, I wanted to share briefly on the question of

Gene Sizemore:

journey.

Gene Sizemore:

A very quick story that I think is really important.

Gene Sizemore:

despite my youthful appearance, I say tongue in cheek I, I am

Gene Sizemore:

kind of long in the tooth. I've got some amazing experiences and

Gene Sizemore:

and

Gene Sizemore:

it's funny, I was talking to Tom the other day, he responded with

Gene Sizemore:

a question, is there anything that you haven't done? And I

Gene Sizemore:

actually get that question a lot. And

Gene Sizemore:

I think one of the reasons why I've had such a

Gene Sizemore:

fantastically wild, crazy random career, both in the military and

Gene Sizemore:

as a federal employee, and then outside of government,

Gene Sizemore:

is because of my strong

Gene Sizemore:

desire to embrace the journey. And I think one of the ways that

Gene Sizemore:

this was really embodied in me,

Gene Sizemore:

the anecdote that demonstrates this, I think perfectly was.

Gene Sizemore:

We've mentioned, we've talked a little bit about this gentleman

Gene Sizemore:

that I worked for for many years. And we were in Germany,

Gene Sizemore:

driving back from elite meeting one day, and I had in an OCS and

Gene Sizemore:

Officer Candidate packet put together, and he was pushing

Gene Sizemore:

really hard for me to become an officer, because he thought I'd

Gene Sizemore:

be a great officer, but I was a noncommissioned officer. And if

Gene Sizemore:

you're not familiar with the military rank, that's, you know,

Gene Sizemore:

the noncommissioned officers are the backbone in the military,

Gene Sizemore:

they're the ones that make things happen. They're the ones

Gene Sizemore:

that do the hard work

Gene Sizemore:

and get their hands dirty. And they're they lead people,

Gene Sizemore:

humans. Officers, you know, are focused on strategy, deep

Gene Sizemore:

thinking long term stuff. I really enjoyed being you know,

Gene Sizemore:

in the trench, I enjoyed being with other soldiers. I enjoyed

Gene Sizemore:

making things happen, I enjoyed being the person that the

Gene Sizemore:

officer looked at and said, Okay, here's what we need to do.

Gene Sizemore:

How do we do it? And I'd say, Follow me. That's the that's the

Gene Sizemore:

mentality I had in the military.

Gene Sizemore:

We were driving down the road late one night, and I asked him,

Gene Sizemore:

he was about to sign my OCS packet. And it was gonna be one

Gene Sizemore:

of these things where because of his rank and position who he

Gene Sizemore:

was, as soon as he signed it, it was pretty much a done deal.

Gene Sizemore:

There was no way it was going to get denied. I asked him if he

Gene Sizemore:

could pull the OCS packet out of his briefcase and tear it up. I

Gene Sizemore:

told him that I had decided that night actually, because of some

Gene Sizemore:

of the things that I'd seen that I didn't want to become an

Gene Sizemore:

officer. We sat in the car, I was at the time I was I was

Gene Sizemore:

driving for him. And at the time, it so we had this really

Gene Sizemore:

quiet kind of uncomfortable silence for about 20 minutes

Gene Sizemore:

going down the Autobahn in Germany. And he looked at me and

Gene Sizemore:

he said, you know, you know what your problem is, he said, You're

Gene Sizemore:

too comfortable being the man behind the man when you're fully

Gene Sizemore:

capable of being the man. He said, Your father was an

Gene Sizemore:

officer. You've been surrounded by officers, you would be a

Gene Sizemore:

great officer. I don't understand why you don't want to

Gene Sizemore:

become an officer. And my response to him was very simple.

Gene Sizemore:

I said, you know, sir, the bottom line is when you're an

Gene Sizemore:

officer, your life is programmed. Your entire journey

Gene Sizemore:

is predestined. Now, there's some turns and branches that can

Gene Sizemore:

be made sure. But there are certain branch qualifying

Gene Sizemore:

assignments that you have to do, there are certain schools that

Gene Sizemore:

you have to go to, there are certain things that you have to

Gene Sizemore:

do or your career will end abruptly. And that's just the

Gene Sizemore:

way it is for officers. The way I looked at my career. I was

Gene Sizemore:

sitting here in Germany, but I never thought I would ever be

Gene Sizemore:

able to live in Germany. Observe for 10 years. I was driving

Gene Sizemore:

around this three star General, who I did just about everything

Gene Sizemore:

for I was driver, a communications speech writer, I

Gene Sizemore:

did everything for him.

Gene Sizemore:

And he eventually took me on to be with him when he became chief

Gene Sizemore:

of staff in the army. I have over 8000 hours flying around

Gene Sizemore:

and Gulfstream jets. I lived a rock star lifestyle. My last

Gene Sizemore:

couple years in the military. The way I looked at it is as an

Gene Sizemore:

enlisted person, I was able to walk through the doors that

Gene Sizemore:

opened for me. I didn't have to look at a door that was open

Gene Sizemore:

that I really wanted to walk through. But I couldn't because

Gene Sizemore:

I was confined by this path that had already been predestined for

Gene Sizemore:

me. And that's one of the things that I really, really embraced

Gene Sizemore:

in the military if there was an opportunity for me. I walked

Gene Sizemore:

through the door, and I did so many amazing cool great things.

Gene Sizemore:

I didn't retire as an officer. I retired as a master sergeant,

Gene Sizemore:

which is respectable, but I didn't make Sergeant Major. I

Gene Sizemore:

didn't go on to be SAR major the army. I didn't you know, do all

Gene Sizemore:

those Pinnacle top things. But gosh, I did a lot and I was

Gene Sizemore:

really really satisfied and exhausted after 25

Gene Sizemore:

I have yours. And I was really happy with my career. And I

Gene Sizemore:

think that's one of the reasons why I've embraced being an

Gene Sizemore:

entrepreneur. Because now I'm back in the driver's seat. And I

Gene Sizemore:

have that freedom to walk through the doors when they

Gene Sizemore:

open. And for me, that's, I think, how I define embracing

Gene Sizemore:

that journey, and not worrying so much about where I get or

Gene Sizemore:

what goals I reach. I mean, I have goals, I have dreams, I

Gene Sizemore:

have aspirations. But that's not where I'm going to stop, I'm

Gene Sizemore:

always going to try to overshoot my goals overshoot my dreams,

Gene Sizemore:

because I've got one life to live, I'm long in the tooth, I

Gene Sizemore:

don't know how much longer I've got. And I want to see how far I

Gene Sizemore:

can get. So that's kind of what I'm doing with the, with

Gene Sizemore:

embracing the journey, just wanted to share that story.

Nicole York:

Gene, I think that's, you know, you really

Nicole York:

just illustrated what we were talking about earlier, which is

Nicole York:

how important it is to understand yourself and

Nicole York:

understand what motivates you and why you care.

Nicole York:

You know, understanding that, that having the freedom to make

Nicole York:

those choices when they pop up for you, the freedom to choose

Nicole York:

between them even knowing that that's an important thing for

Nicole York:

you, really allows you to set the path for what you want your

Nicole York:

career to look like, if you build in inherently that

Nicole York:

freedom.

Nicole York:

You know, that obviously, is going to be wildly different

Nicole York:

experience than if you have kind of constrained yourself, because

Nicole York:

that is important to you. So understanding those things about

Nicole York:

ourselves, I think are just going to make being in love with

Nicole York:

this journey that we're on. So much easier. So thanks for your

Nicole York:

story, man, I want to make sure that we have a chance to hear

Nicole York:

from Larry, I think we lost Erica, she might have needed to

Nicole York:

go do something or had a client, I hope we can get her back. But

Nicole York:

Larry, Good Morning, my friends would love to hear from you.

Nicole York:

Well, good morning. It's a really great conversation. So I

Nicole York:

love listening to everybody's perspectives. And I don't want

Nicole York:

anyone to think that my perspective is, is right or

Nicole York:

wrong. It's only my perspective, I've been fascinated listening

Nicole York:

to everyone's take on these topics.

Larry Hershberger:

I know I've listened to a lot of you before,

Larry Hershberger:

and I really admire this group of people at the top here. So,

Larry Hershberger:

you know, when I think of art and business, first of all, that

Larry Hershberger:

what what really is

Larry Hershberger:

been my life is art, it's it's a way of living, I believe that

Larry Hershberger:

it's a way of thinking of walks with you every step that you

Larry Hershberger:

take all day long.

Larry Hershberger:

Where I think that if you allow it, it leads you to creation, as

Larry Hershberger:

opposed to, like, I've known a lot of really talented artists,

Larry Hershberger:

but they they got themselves into a position where they had

Larry Hershberger:

to create someone else's ideas for them, because of that, they

Larry Hershberger:

chose to work for someone else. And so someone else would do the

Larry Hershberger:

designing, they would then bring it to life. And, you know,

Larry Hershberger:

there's a frustration in their voice when I when I talk to

Larry Hershberger:

them, that they're missing something more than I think

Larry Hershberger:

they're thinking is missing is the the act of creating, when

Larry Hershberger:

there is nothing and you create something from nothing that is

Larry Hershberger:

from you. And it turns into something.

Larry Hershberger:

And the longer that you can do that. And the more that you can

Larry Hershberger:

do that. It becomes somewhat of a brand, if you will. And you

Larry Hershberger:

know, for me,

Larry Hershberger:

working as my own independent company, my own independent

Larry Hershberger:

self, has allowed me to create and create a lot and build upon

Larry Hershberger:

those creations, some creations have succeeded and sold some and

Larry Hershberger:

done very well and others have not. And it's okay. I'm not, I

Larry Hershberger:

don't judge a creation by whether it sells or not. I just

Larry Hershberger:

love to create and that sort of just inspires me and gives me

Larry Hershberger:

that that tingle, you know that I need it's like that that's the

Larry Hershberger:

oxygen that a fire needs. So you know, there's this excitement

Larry Hershberger:

every day within the company. And then I started to realize

Larry Hershberger:

early on in my career that I love the the business of art,

Larry Hershberger:

like the business of art is an art in itself. And so embrace

Larry Hershberger:

the business of art. And then you start putting thought into

Larry Hershberger:

what am I creating, and all these things that I create in

Larry Hershberger:

this, this this plethora of things that I've created in the

Larry Hershberger:

end, the slowly forming this brand that I can then share with

Larry Hershberger:

the world. And then when I see how that brand and that art is

Larry Hershberger:

impacting others in a positive way, it becomes very, very, very

Larry Hershberger:

satisfying. So for me, the business side of it allows me to

Larry Hershberger:

continually create on a daily basis as a but create from my

Larry Hershberger:

inner soul as an artist, not from somebody else's and

Larry Hershberger:

So that's kind of how I feel. For me, it's easy to to, to set

Larry Hershberger:

goals and put ideas out there. And you've created avenues of

Larry Hershberger:

clientele and created avenues of

Larry Hershberger:

marketing and selling your brand that you can create and then put

Larry Hershberger:

that artwork out there and tested it. If it works great. If

Larry Hershberger:

it doesn't work great. I think it's fantastic to be able to

Larry Hershberger:

bring, as Sam said, bring in my income and 100% of my income is

Larry Hershberger:

taking care of my family. And I love that.

Larry Hershberger:

It even creates inner conversations within our family

Larry Hershberger:

that lead to further creation, if you will. So yeah, I guess

Larry Hershberger:

creations at my forefront. And having an in your own business

Larry Hershberger:

just leads to this constant barrage of thought that leads to

Larry Hershberger:

more creation. So thanks for giving me some time. I've been

Larry Hershberger:

off for a while because I'm just on a on a real busy couple of

Larry Hershberger:

months stretch here.

Larry Hershberger:

And then of course, we've also had our baby. So it's just been

Larry Hershberger:

a busy time, but I haven't been on club bus very much. So, you

Larry Hershberger:

know, I, Nicole, I'm thankful that you give me the opportunity

Larry Hershberger:

to share a few thoughts.

Nicole York:

Yeah, absolutely, my friend, I'm glad to have you

Nicole York:

back a little bit, always a pleasure to hear from you. And,

Nicole York:

you know, it seems like listening to this conversation

Nicole York:

as a whole. One of the real through lines that has emerged

Nicole York:

is how important it is for us to know ourselves and to understand

Nicole York:

what things are important to us, and what things keep us

Nicole York:

motivated and what things keep us moving. Because for each one

Nicole York:

of us, that path is going to look a little bit different. And

Nicole York:

knowing that, that the business is an art. And that's a thing to

Nicole York:

fall in love with or knowing that we need to also have that

Nicole York:

ability to provide or knowing that we need the freedom to

Nicole York:

choose. For each one of us, you know, that might look a little

Nicole York:

bit different. But understanding that about ourselves, man,

Nicole York:

that's such an important thing. Because it is much easier to

Nicole York:

build something in or fix something or change something if

Nicole York:

you know what's important to you than it is to feel like

Nicole York:

something is wrong, and not be able to understand why or where

Nicole York:

and how we can fix it. So I want to make sure we also have a

Nicole York:

chance to hear from Matt.

Unknown:

And then we'll go ahead and I'll start wrapping stuff up

Unknown:

a little bit with some of my final thoughts and the things

Unknown:

that helped me stay in love with this journey. And all of its

Unknown:

different permutations. So Matt,

Larry Hershberger:

Nicole, can I share one more thought on that,

Larry Hershberger:

because I just kind of dovetails to what you're saying, you know,

Larry Hershberger:

that I know a lot of artists and, and

Larry Hershberger:

a lot of photographers.

Larry Hershberger:

And there's a propensity to fear the word business, and sales and

Larry Hershberger:

things like that, you know, and I, I love the business of

Larry Hershberger:

selling my art, I love the business of marketing my art, I

Larry Hershberger:

love the whole, the whole concept of creating art and

Larry Hershberger:

selling it to the world and bringing it out to the people

Larry Hershberger:

work gives them joy. But I love the business of a just as much.

Larry Hershberger:

And it's not, it's not something to be feared as if it's if you

Larry Hershberger:

if you turn your art into business, that you're, you're

Larry Hershberger:

not focusing on the art anymore. If anything, I think you're

Larry Hershberger:

focusing even further on the art and getting your art out and

Larry Hershberger:

allowing you a space to create more art. It's Yes, a business

Larry Hershberger:

is a lot of work, but so isn't going to work every day for

Larry Hershberger:

eight hours a day. So I mean,

Larry Hershberger:

you know, I'd rather work hard within my business and be able

Larry Hershberger:

to create my own art. So I just I would love to see more artists

Larry Hershberger:

in the race, the business of art. And once you have a system,

Larry Hershberger:

once you have a system in place, then you can just follow that

Larry Hershberger:

system because business is very logical. And after that, then

Larry Hershberger:

you're you can be as creative as you want with creating your own

Larry Hershberger:

art. So thanks again. Sorry.

Nicole York:

No, please don't be sorry. You know, that's

Nicole York:

fantastic. It's it's a really important thing for us to keep

Nicole York:

in mind, especially those those few of us who always struggle

Nicole York:

with the business aspects, the freedom that it does give us to

Nicole York:

work for ourselves and create what we want is an absolutely

Nicole York:

beautiful thing.

Unknown:

So Becca, was that a clap from you? Or were you did

Unknown:

you have something you wanted to respond before Matt shares his

Unknown:

ideas? Nope. Just clapping. All right, cool. All right. Matt

Unknown:

would also love to hear from you today. How do you stay in love

Unknown:

with this journey?

Matt Stagliano:

You know, it's it's interesting that the

Matt Stagliano:

conversation has been so great for the past hour and one of the

Matt Stagliano:

things that Kat said right at the beginning, which really

Matt Stagliano:

really hit home for me, because it ties into a lot of what I do

Matt Stagliano:

with with meditation and visualization and manifestation

Matt Stagliano:

is the feeling of the joy

Unknown:

of why you do what you do that feeling like the

Unknown:

visceral feeling in your bones of why you're doing what you're

Unknown:

doing. That's the thing that I love. I know, for me, it's not

Unknown:

necessarily about the journey to being a professional, I think we

Unknown:

all have a long twisty road to that. For me, it came out of

Unknown:

corporate, like a lot of people. And then I finally developed

Unknown:

this inner artist that I didn't know I had, I'd always kept kind

Unknown:

of hidden back, whether it was musician or visual arts or

Unknown:

whatnot. And I was finally able to let that free. And with that

Unknown:

came a feeling of freedom, like, Yes, this is my purpose, this is

Unknown:

what I'm supposed to be doing. Now, that might change next

Unknown:

year, and I develop, you know, stomping grapes is my purpose,

Unknown:

whatever. But I think, at this moment in time, and it's been

Unknown:

almost a decade, that my ability to connect with people, the

Unknown:

feeling that I get from helping people, that is my why, and I've

Unknown:

talked about that a lot before, I think, to stay in love with

Unknown:

the process, you've got to be able to understand that there

Unknown:

are going to be these incredible ups and downs, whether you're

Unknown:

doing it for profit or not, there are going to be incredible

Unknown:

ups and downs. And given the nature of life, so long as you

Unknown:

stay focused on that longer term, have faith in yourself

Unknown:

that this is the path that you're supposed to be on, then

Unknown:

all of those other ups and downs, you got to get a new job,

Unknown:

or you can't do this, or whatever the case is, are

Unknown:

temporary. And we've talked about that in all of this, I

Unknown:

take a slightly more, while I'm very focused on finances, I take

Unknown:

a slightly more spiritual woowoo approach to doing what I do.

Unknown:

Because that's the thing that keeps me going. That's the thing

Unknown:

that makes me feel really good. I had a shoot yesterday with a

Unknown:

woman who had an awful, awful breakup with her partner. And we

Unknown:

got to sit in my studio yesterday and shoot, she had

Unknown:

puffy eyes, she's been crying for a week, it was in her head

Unknown:

constantly. And we were able to work her through some of that,

Unknown:

to maintain some of her self confidence and power. That's the

Unknown:

thing. It's not the the portraits at the end of the day,

Unknown:

it's being able to be kind to someone and help them quite a

Unknown:

bit. That's why I continue to do this because it's the vehicle

Unknown:

for me to be able to do that for other people. Love it. Love it.

Unknown:

I love it. I love it.

Nicole York:

This has been a really incredible conversation

Nicole York:

this morning, you guys and and hearing everybody's thoughts on

Nicole York:

some of the things they do or the things they understand the

Nicole York:

things we remind ourselves of and the avenues that we build

Nicole York:

into our life to help us stay in love with this journey is so

Nicole York:

illuminating. And I want to share a little bit about why I

Nicole York:

wanted us to be the topic of conversation this morning.

Nicole York:

Because

Nicole York:

as many of you know, throughout my my career as a maker, I've

Nicole York:

done a lot of things. I've written novels, I've done

Nicole York:

illustrations, I've done photography, and photography in

Nicole York:

many, many realms, from weddings, to babies, to baptisms

Nicole York:

to fashion, and beauty and advertising.

Nicole York:

I've done a lot of different things with photography. And

Nicole York:

I've moved I've lived in a lot of different places, like

Nicole York:

Eugene, I've lived in Germany, I've lived all over the states.

Nicole York:

And I think that experience has really forced me to understand

Nicole York:

something about myself very deeply. And sometime about two

Nicole York:

years ago, for a long time, as my business is called Nicole

Nicole York:

York photography. Like many of us, I just used my name because

Nicole York:

that made sense. But I realized that I to be tied down to a

Nicole York:

single thing makes me feel like I'm cutting parts of my soul

Nicole York:

out. Because I will never not be able to write. And I will never

Nicole York:

not be able to just make the things that feel like I need to

Nicole York:

make them. And so I changed the name of a lot of my my social

Nicole York:

media presence to Nicole creates because I recognize that

Nicole York:

photography is not is not the soul of of who I am or why I

Nicole York:

need to make things. It's just another avenue that I use to

Nicole York:

make things. And when I came to the realization that the telling

Nicole York:

of a story is what is at the heart of everything that I want

Nicole York:

to do, whether that is with an image or with a book. I

Nicole York:

recognized the very core of what I am and what's important to me.

Nicole York:

And knowing that

Nicole York:

knowing that about myself means that I have to choose a journey

Nicole York:

forward. That is one I can love Every day because this is not

Nicole York:

going to be easy. One of the best ways, at least in the

Nicole York:

current climate and society that we have to gain notoriety, and

Nicole York:

therefore clients, and then income is to have something that

Nicole York:

you become known for. And it's difficult when you want to just

Nicole York:

do all of the things when I want to write a book, and also take a

Nicole York:

picture and make a painting and do all of these different

Nicole York:

things.

Nicole York:

It becomes difficult. And so I've chosen a path for myself,

Nicole York:

that is going to put me on the struggle bus going forward. But

Nicole York:

I know that if I'm going to live a life that I love day to day, I

Nicole York:

have to be doing something that I love every day. And if it

Nicole York:

means

Unknown:

living in a bureaucracy, and I have a goal,

Unknown:

but I have to live in a bureaucracy to do it, that goal

Unknown:

is going to become worthless to me by the time I reach it,

Unknown:

because my day to day life is not going to be one that I'm

Unknown:

happy living. And when we were having the conversation about

Unknown:

our wins yesterday, like where are we winning? You know? How

Unknown:

are we living lives that we love. And then today talking

Unknown:

about loving the journey. The really big ask behind this

Unknown:

question comes from the fact that as humans, we tend to be

Unknown:

very forward focused thinkers, we're wanting to think about the

Unknown:

future, we want to think about how we can get to where we need

Unknown:

to be, what are we going to have to do to survive. And we think a

Unknown:

lot about those goals. That's why I brought them up, those

Unknown:

become our kind of, we have to look forward to something

Unknown:

because that's where hope comes from. And so when we're looking

Unknown:

forward, this moment, this mundane moment, can become a

Unknown:

sort of dream life, you walk through it without really paying

Unknown:

attention to what you're doing and where you are, what you're

Unknown:

experiencing. Because your eyes are so forward focused, that all

Unknown:

of the things that you do on the day to day, become rote, you

Unknown:

know, we go through them without really being present in those

Unknown:

things. And when that happens, we start to lose what it is like

Unknown:

to live every day in this life. And then when we finally reach

Unknown:

that goal, that thing that we've been striving for, for so long,

Unknown:

there's the moment of elation, and then there's the crash

Unknown:

afterwards. Because when the goal is done, we're not falling

Unknown:

right back into a life that we love. We're falling back into a

Unknown:

life that we ignored in the service of a goal that is now

Unknown:

gone.

Nicole York:

And so what do we have to do? We have to make

Nicole York:

another goal, I need something else to look forward to. I gotta

Nicole York:

have another goal. So we think, Okay, well, I've, I've done this

Nicole York:

thing now, what can I do next, and that becomes the goal. And

Nicole York:

all of a sudden, the same process gets repeated. We don't

Nicole York:

live presently, in our day to day life, loving the things that

Nicole York:

we do every day, we're living every day in service of the

Nicole York:

thing that we're going for. And pretty soon, we're at the end of

Nicole York:

our lives, and we've ignored our whole damn lives. And what we

Nicole York:

have to look back on is the series of goals that we reached.

Nicole York:

And I refuse for that to be the life that I build for myself.

Nicole York:

And falling in love with the journey doesn't just mean

Nicole York:

staying in love with art. And it doesn't just mean you know,

Nicole York:

building something that is going to make us an income. It means

Nicole York:

constructing a life for ourselves, that every day that

Nicole York:

we're in it, we wouldn't want to be doing anything else. And I'm

Nicole York:

sitting here this morning, and I'm talking to you guys, and

Nicole York:

we're having this amazing conversation. I'm in my warm

Nicole York:

fuzzy PJs, I'm sitting by the fire, I have my pups at my feet.

Nicole York:

My babies are upstairs sleeping, I have a cup of tea in my hands.

Nicole York:

And it's warm, and it's cozy, and I'm sitting before the fire

Nicole York:

and a house that we bought.

Unknown:

And if I take a second, and I break that down, and I

Unknown:

recognize what I'm here for right now present with you all

Unknown:

having this conversation sure later, I'm going to go make some

Unknown:

art money go upstairs, I'm going to finish some illustrations,

Unknown:

I'm going to work on some more. I'm going to get it done.

Unknown:

Because next month I'm going to write a damn book, I'm gonna put

Unknown:

all my creative energy into that. But right now

Nicole York:

I'm about as cozy as you could get.

Nicole York:

And later when my babies get up, they're going to eat breakfast.

Nicole York:

And

Nicole York:

I'm going to be in love with this life that I have.

Nicole York:

And so

Nicole York:

as we look at this process and this journey that we're on, and

Nicole York:

the life that we build for ourself,

Nicole York:

staying in love

Nicole York:

That journey means recognizing ourselves as whole people.

Nicole York:

And while the core of what I want to do, the thing I want to

Nicole York:

leave behind with my life is the stories that I tell and helping

Nicole York:

other people to tell the stories that they need to tell to make

Nicole York:

this world a better place.

Unknown:

And that's a big goal. And one I care about, every day

Unknown:

that I live has to become

Nicole York:

a goal in and of itself, it has to become a

Nicole York:

journey that I enjoy taking, I have to love every forward

Nicole York:

footfall.

Nicole York:

Because what else do we got guys, those goals are ephemeral.

Nicole York:

And what I leave behind is important for my sense of

Nicole York:

sanity, but what I live now is important for, for me, that's

Nicole York:

the only life we have is the day to day experiences that we get.

Nicole York:

And if we walk through them,

Unknown:

never actually seeing them.

Nicole York:

Never experiencing the bunny on the side of the

Nicole York:

road. That's why I giggle when you guys mentioned Nicole

Nicole York:

moments, because that's literally just me being so

Nicole York:

present, that I'm getting distracted by things.

Nicole York:

But that's because it doesn't that that's the poetry of our

Nicole York:

life are those moments.

Nicole York:

And we are so full

Unknown:

of the future. Sometimes it crowds out

Unknown:

everything that could be giving us the present moment that we

Unknown:

should cherish and those things that become the day to day life.

Unknown:

There's a painter named Ray Bonilla. I was lucky to

Unknown:

interview him last year. And that is what he paints he makes

Unknown:

his living painting. These instances, it might be the

Unknown:

building across the street, one of his paintings is literally

Unknown:

the place that the sun hits. In the spring, when winter is

Unknown:

almost over this house that's down the street is kind of his

Unknown:

first sign of spring, because at a certain time in the morning,

Unknown:

that's where the sun hits. And he painted that house not

Unknown:

because the house itself is fantastic, or it was you know,

Unknown:

beautifully composed or anything about it. He painted it because

Unknown:

of the emotional meaning that it has for his year. Spring is

Unknown:

coming when that when the sun is on that house at a certain time

Unknown:

of day, his paintings are all very much. This is a moment in

Unknown:

my life where this is a place in my life that has emotional

Unknown:

resonance, meaning and he's living his life, not only

Unknown:

through the living of it, but through the painting of it. And

Unknown:

I think that that's such a beautiful metaphor for the

Unknown:

little things that we may ignore if we don't learn how to be

Unknown:

present in our lives. So I recognize that we're over our

Unknown:

time. But I wanted to just really flesh out you know, all

Unknown:

of the things that we've talked about the things that we can

Unknown:

build into our businesses to help us keep in love with the

Unknown:

journey, the things that we can keep in mind about our purpose

Unknown:

and the art that we make. If those don't come in the service

Unknown:

of helping us live a life day to day that we love.

Nicole York:

I'm going to leave that conclusion for you to come

Nicole York:

to for yourself.

Nicole York:

So

Nicole York:

any very final thoughts before we close the room down for

Nicole York:

today?

Nicole York:

Nothing y'all are quiet.

Unknown:

You know,

Larry Hershberger:

Nicole, I love the way you summarized

Larry Hershberger:

everything, it was very, very well done.

Larry Hershberger:

I still think it's it goes down to send some of the simplicity

Larry Hershberger:

of you know, if you're an artist, then you live it, you

Larry Hershberger:

live it in everything you do in the air you breathe and how you

Larry Hershberger:

view every step that you take. And I mean everything about what

Larry Hershberger:

you're you're seeing and experiencing is viewed and

Larry Hershberger:

experience to the eyes of you the artist. And and if you can

Larry Hershberger:

allow yourself to also be a creator. Well, that's another

Larry Hershberger:

step. And I think a creator is is is a beautiful, beautiful

Larry Hershberger:

thing when you are involved in the act of creation, that no

Larry Hershberger:

one's ever seen what is about to come out and including yourself,

Larry Hershberger:

then you're actually creating something. And that's a powerful

Larry Hershberger:

feeling as well. So it's the it's that, that that

Larry Hershberger:

life of as an artist and not being fearful of it. And you

Larry Hershberger:

know, a lot of people will say, you know, what do you do for a

Larry Hershberger:

living? Well, I'm an artist, and I like oh, you know, and it's

Larry Hershberger:

not always a positive. Oh, you know, sometimes it's like, oh,

Larry Hershberger:

you're an artist. Well, listen, I have such pride and joy of

Larry Hershberger:

being an artist because I'm doing what I love. And so every

Larry Hershberger:

day, I can live that day in a loving manner. And so I just

Larry Hershberger:

wanted to reiterate much of what you said that it's that

Larry Hershberger:

making that decision to embrace who you are, and be authentic.

Larry Hershberger:

As an artist, so thank you again.

Nicole York:

Yeah, absolutely art as an expression of love.

Nicole York:

Love that.

Nicole York:

All right, y'all Any other final thoughts before we close up and

Nicole York:

say goodbye for the day?

Cat Ford-Coates:

All right.

Nicole York:

Thank you, everybody for being here. Thanks

Nicole York:

for sharing your thoughts, keeping in mind that this

Nicole York:

journey we're on the journey of life, the journey of art, the

Nicole York:

journey of business are every day that make up this journey,

Nicole York:

understanding ourselves and why we create and knowing the

Nicole York:

importance of being able to build those things into our

Nicole York:

life, and

Nicole York:

choosing to appreciate because there's so much if you just stop

Nicole York:

for a minute, and look around you.

Nicole York:

How much have you been ignoring that make your life beautiful.

Nicole York:

So you guys are beautiful part of my morning every morning.

Nicole York:

Thank you for being here for having these conversations for

Nicole York:

being willing to speak up.

Nicole York:

I hope that you will join us again tomorrow morning at 7am

Nicole York:

Mountain Standard Time. That's six for the West Coast nine for

Nicole York:

the East Coast. We are here every morning all week long. And

Nicole York:

pretty soon we'll be doing more live streams in the Facebook

Nicole York:

group. So if you want to come and be a part of that it is the

Nicole York:

artists forge on Facebook, you have to search for it because it

Nicole York:

is hidden.

Nicole York:

We like to keep our members in their safe so the artists for

Nicole York:

John Facebook will get you in there and come and hang out for

Nicole York:

those. If you have other things you want to chat about that room

Nicole York:

is a perfect place to do it outside of our morning hour. I

Nicole York:

hope you guys have an amazing day.

Nicole York:

And go make something incredible. We'll see you

Nicole York:

tomorrow morning.

Matt Stagliano:

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

Matt Stagliano:

discussion moderated by all of us at the artist Forge. We hope

Matt Stagliano:

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

Matt Stagliano:

episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit

Matt Stagliano:

the artists forge.com and go make something incredible

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About the Podcast

Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge
How to Critique Art
Learn how mindset, creativity, and visual literacy will help you think like an artist so you can create work you love and build a career that matters; bridging the gap between technique and art.

About your host

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Nicole York