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Published on:

9th Feb 2022

How to Structure Your Business

Business structure determines how a business will run, what our daily lives will look like as we complete tasks, and what our client's experience will be. The good news is that building the framework for a business can be highly individualized to suit the needs of the artist and clients they're trying to serve.

So how can artists assess their needs so they can think about business structure in a way that serves them?

In this episode, you'll hear:

  • The mistakes artists have made when structuring their businesses
  • How to find business structures that work for you
  • How to take bits and pieces from successful models and use them for yourself
  • How to learn from resistance when your structure isn't working

If you want to learn more about business structure, you can start the journey with the Artist's Forge MBA here: https://player.captivate.fm/episode/d5e54564-a45f-4ceb-ab30-514f227fa46a

Learn more about how to think like an artist on The Artist's Forge, and join our growing community of artists on Facebook.

Want to know more about the hosts?

Nicole York

Matt Stagliano

Cat Ford-Coates

Bassam Sabbagh

Bekka Bjorke

Transcript
Matt Stagliano:

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

Matt Stagliano:

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

Matt Stagliano:

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

Matt Stagliano:

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

Matt Stagliano:

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

Matt Stagliano:

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

Matt Stagliano:

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

Matt Stagliano:

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

Matt Stagliano:

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

Matt Stagliano:

us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.

Nicole York:

Welcome to morning walk and business talk with the

Nicole York:

artist Forge. Glad to have you with us today. As we discuss

Nicole York:

business. Today we're working on business structure. That is the

Nicole York:

goal of the conversation. What is it? Why is it important to

Nicole York:

know what it is and what we're going to be looking at. It's

Nicole York:

interesting because there are so many different aspects of

Nicole York:

preparing yourself to really start your business moving

Nicole York:

forward. And if you already have a business, then going back and

Nicole York:

looking at the structure of what you have actually built, and

Nicole York:

chances are, it's going to be some kind of a mismatch, right?

Nicole York:

Like, you have probably made decisions about the structure of

Nicole York:

your business based on things that happened along the way.

Nicole York:

Things that you learned when you were very first starting your

Nicole York:

business ideas that you took from other people. And then also

Nicole York:

things that you discovered worked for you or didn't work

Nicole York:

for you. Like you may have instituted contracts after

Nicole York:

having a bad experience with a client, you may have instituted

Nicole York:

in person sales, after hearing from other folks that they were

Nicole York:

able to make a lot of money that way, without ever asking

Nicole York:

yourself, Is this actually the way that I want to run my

Nicole York:

business? I know quite a few photographers who dislike in

Nicole York:

person sales, they're kind of freaked out by the situation.

Nicole York:

But they have structured their business to rely really heavily

Nicole York:

on in person sales. So it becomes a kind of interesting,

Nicole York:

it becomes an interesting dichotomy that happens that if

Nicole York:

we were not intentional with the initial structuring of our

Nicole York:

business, it can become a kind of mosaic of all of these

Nicole York:

different influences throughout our time as photographers and

Nicole York:

business people. And it's always a good idea to go back and look

Nicole York:

at what you have built and figure out, Is this actually the

Nicole York:

kind of business I want to run? Or am I just running a business

Nicole York:

that has Frankensteined itself over the years. And if we're

Nicole York:

just starting, then understanding what the structure

Nicole York:

of our business is going to look like from the beginning will

Nicole York:

hopefully help us to create the kind of business we're gonna

Nicole York:

love to run. Now, this doesn't mean that things won't change

Nicole York:

over the years, because of course they will. We're going to

Nicole York:

learn more about what works for us and what doesn't. But the

Nicole York:

whole point is just to be cognizant of what we're actually

Nicole York:

doing, and understand how we can structure the business in order

Nicole York:

to serve that philosophy of business we talked about before,

Nicole York:

keeping in mind our non negotiables. And hopefully that

Nicole York:

influence, what legal type of business we're running, as we

Nicole York:

had the conversation before sole proprietor versus LLC versus S

Nicole York:

corp, and how everything is structured. So today's

Nicole York:

conversation is really going to focus on looking at the absolute

Nicole York:

foundational nuts and bolts of the business. What kind of

Nicole York:

business are we running? What are we selling? What products

Nicole York:

are we selling? And how are we selling them? Where are we

Nicole York:

selling them? And to whom? Are we going to give people digital

Nicole York:

goods? Are we going to ship physical products? How are we

Nicole York:

going to be interacting with people, all of these different

Nicole York:

decisions are foundational to the structure of our business.

Nicole York:

And what it's going to look like for us, as somebody whose family

Nicole York:

travels, it's really important for me to be able to work with

Nicole York:

folks who are not in my immediate area, because I'm not

Nicole York:

going to be here long term. So I have to have a really good

Nicole York:

system set up for working with folks who are far away, who I

Nicole York:

get to communicate and collaborate with when they're

Nicole York:

not here physically with me. And I have to be able to get them

Nicole York:

their products in a way that's usable for them when they're not

Nicole York:

here. And often. That is going to influence the way that I

Nicole York:

structure how I run my business, what the client experience looks

Nicole York:

like, all of that stuff. So that's the conversation for

Nicole York:

today. We'll be asking people who are just getting into

Nicole York:

business, to think about this, and folks who are already in

Nicole York:

business to share what the experience has been like

Nicole York:

building the structure of your business. And let's have another

Nicole York:

look like let's take another look at your business, and

Nicole York:

consider it from an outside perspective, figure out what's

Nicole York:

working and what's not working and see how we can flip stuff

Nicole York:

around. So business structure, Matt, Becca,

Nicole York:

was this question something that you considered when you very

Nicole York:

first got into business? Or is this something you've just kind

Nicole York:

of discovered has Frankensteined itself over time? And what

Nicole York:

should people be considering? As they're asking themselves these

Nicole York:

kinds of questions? Who am I selling? To? What kind of

Nicole York:

business Am I running? How is it going to work?

Matt Stagliano:

The good thing is, this should be a really

Matt Stagliano:

short answer. I think, you know, it's, it coincides with what I

Matt Stagliano:

was talking about, when we're talking about, you know,

Matt Stagliano:

choosing LLC, or a sole prop force escort, it really comes

Matt Stagliano:

down to looking inward a little bit at what you want. Knowing

Matt Stagliano:

that, like you said, Nicole, it is absolutely going to morph

Matt Stagliano:

over time. So for me, when I came out of my first business,

Matt Stagliano:

which was not necessarily a failure, I just didn't know how

Matt Stagliano:

to run a business. You know, my first brand, and I was doing

Matt Stagliano:

things, digital downloads through SmugMug, which is

Matt Stagliano:

perfectly fine. But I was charging $5 for it. I was afraid

Matt Stagliano:

of contracts, because I didn't want to offend anybody. And you

Matt Stagliano:

know, it was all the the initial mistakes that you make, because

Matt Stagliano:

you don't necessarily have a great sense of self value, or

Matt Stagliano:

even a real good direction on what you want the business to be

Matt Stagliano:

for me, as I grew. And as I moved out of my first company

Matt Stagliano:

into my second company and set up the retail portraiture

Matt Stagliano:

studio, I realized I wanted to fix all the mistakes I had made

Matt Stagliano:

in the first business and instituted contracts instituted

Matt Stagliano:

in person sales, created a model in which I was really focused on

Matt Stagliano:

serving the client rather than just making images. And so over

Matt Stagliano:

time, you know, I've been much more diligent about making the

Matt Stagliano:

business follow my vision, rather than just hoping I get to

Matt Stagliano:

an end point. So as I built stone tree, it's been more about

Matt Stagliano:

doing something with intention, having processes and workflows

Matt Stagliano:

and systems and philosophies that all serve the intention of

Matt Stagliano:

me building a business that I love to do with clients that I

Matt Stagliano:

love, and will afford me the lifestyle that I love. So that's

Matt Stagliano:

very high level. But yes, as I made so many mistakes in the

Matt Stagliano:

first business, I tried to correct those in the second. And

Matt Stagliano:

I'm happy to go into anything but I'd rather hear from Becker

Matt Stagliano:

right now and see if we can start comparing

Unknown:

Well, I am very comfortable with saying that I

Unknown:

had absolutely no idea what I was doing at all the when I was

Unknown:

first trying to make it as a working photographer. completely

Unknown:

clueless as a teenager, I didn't know shit about shit. And I went

Unknown:

through a lot of variations of attempts at business structure,

Unknown:

not all of them legally incorporated because again, I

Unknown:

was very young and stupid. But you know, they there was

Unknown:

variations of I'm going to do portraiture, I'm going to do

Unknown:

mini sessions, I'm gonna do weddings, I'm going to do IPs,

Unknown:

you know, all these different things. And it took a long time

Unknown:

to figure out which one actually fulfilled my own artistic needs

Unknown:

and serves people with my own particular set of talents and

Unknown:

skills. Because honestly, like there's things I'm not good at

Unknown:

that I'm not comfortable with there's types of selling I'm not

Unknown:

good at and it just wasn't working. Things that don't work

Unknown:

with my family wife thing are things that don't even work with

Unknown:

like my own artistic talents. Like there's some things that

Unknown:

other people are just better at and that's okay. So yeah, it was

Unknown:

definitely a long process to get to the point of pursuing you

Unknown:

know, a more service based and then retail product based kind

Unknown:

of business and pursuing strictly only more individual

Unknown:

Commission's and then eventually taking that full step away from

Unknown:

photography in a classical sense. So yeah, it's it's been a

Unknown:

long Frankenstein learning process for sure.

Nicole York:

I empathize with you so much there because I

Nicole York:

started my business in my 20s, my very late 20s. We just still

Nicole York:

kind of like being just like a teenager with more

Nicole York:

responsibility. So I definitely can identify with you there. And

Nicole York:

my beginning was exactly what you mentioned. I was basically

Nicole York:

like, Well, what do people do? Well, they do these things,

Nicole York:

okay. Let me plug those in there and see if they work. And so I'm

Nicole York:

doing those things. And figuring out what I didn't like and

Nicole York:

changing them. And then hearing other people do other things and

Nicole York:

being like, Oh, let me just stuff that in there to like,

Nicole York:

maybe that'll work. And there was really no rhyme or reason to

Nicole York:

how it was doing except it seemed like other people were

Nicole York:

having good results with it. So I was like, yeah, in person

Nicole York:

sales, I'll do that. And, you know, welcome packets, cool.

Nicole York:

Stuff that in there, too. And then, oh, like online galleries

Nicole York:

with a password, like that sounded really fancy. In there,

Nicole York:

too. And obviously, obviously, I really didn't have any actual

Nicole York:

thoughts for like, what the customer experience was going to

Nicole York:

look like. And also, I never thought about what I wanted my

Nicole York:

daily life to look like. And that's where I'm actually going

Nicole York:

to start off with some of the advice today is, when many of us

Nicole York:

start in business, we do exactly what Becca and I did. And also

Nicole York:

what Matt did, where we don't really know enough about how to

Nicole York:

run a business, we don't really know what skills we have that

Nicole York:

are necessarily going to come in handy. And where we're going to

Nicole York:

fall short. Like we don't know what we don't know, right. But

Nicole York:

also, we don't have a whole lot of education, around things like

Nicole York:

business structure. So we do end up just kind of frankensteining

Nicole York:

and tripping over our feet and figuring stuff out as we go. And

Nicole York:

that's pretty natural. But it also introduces a lot of hurdles

Nicole York:

that we might not have had to face, if we would have slowed

Nicole York:

down a little bit. And wait, wait, maybe I should really

Nicole York:

learn what this looks like before I throw myself to the

Nicole York:

wolves. And so my piece of advice is ask yourself what you

Nicole York:

want your day to day life to look like. Because you're going

Nicole York:

to be spending a majority of your week doing business, you're

Nicole York:

going to be spending it building marketing, editing photos,

Nicole York:

calling clients, shipping things, whatever it is that you

Nicole York:

do, the business is going to take up at least eight hours of

Nicole York:

your day. If you're a sole proprietor or you're just trying

Nicole York:

to get off the ground, it's probably going to take more than

Nicole York:

that. So ask yourself, what do I want my daily life to look like?

Nicole York:

And really consider that question. And if you can do the

Nicole York:

exercise of building yourself that mental picture, start in

Nicole York:

the morning? What does it look like when you wake up? What time

Nicole York:

are you getting up? And what do you do from there? How do you go

Nicole York:

about your day? Do you stay at home? And work from a home

Nicole York:

office? Do you hop in your car and drive to a portrait studio?

Nicole York:

Are you comfortable? Bringing people into your home as part of

Nicole York:

your business? Or do you want to separate that from your daily

Nicole York:

life? All of these kinds of questions are important because

Nicole York:

they come with some kind of accompanying consequence. If I

Nicole York:

want to separate my portrait business from my daily life,

Nicole York:

that means I now have a commute, and rent and utilities, etc.

Nicole York:

That means I've got to get my ass up, put on real people

Nicole York:

clothes, and drive to work and work from the studio.

Nicole York:

You know, all of these are things that we have to know. So

Nicole York:

that we can weigh out what the consequences look like on my

Nicole York:

day. If I have a late portrait session, do I want to be driving

Nicole York:

home and traffic? Who's going to be here when my kids get home

Nicole York:

from school? And how am I going to figure that out? All of those

Nicole York:

questions and knowing the answers to those questions are

Nicole York:

really going to influence how we decide to structure the business

Nicole York:

that follows because we have to build a daily life that we're

Nicole York:

happy with. And that was my biggest personal mistake. And I

Nicole York:

had to learn that one through trial and error. I had to work

Nicole York:

from home. So I made an office which was super great. But I

Nicole York:

chose to do family portraiture, which I don't like. And so I

Nicole York:

spent half of my days really irritated that I was editing

Nicole York:

photos that I didn't care about. And it took me quite a while to

Nicole York:

realize that I didn't want to be taking photos for other people.

Nicole York:

I wanted to be making what was in my head. So if I would have

Nicole York:

taken a little bit of time to understand myself better.

Nicole York:

Instead of just go well people like the photos that I take and

Nicole York:

I want money how do people make money with photos they take

Nicole York:

pictures of families Not what do I want to be doing? What is

Nicole York:

actually going to make my time and effort worth? The money that

Nicole York:

I'm trying to earn. And my my measly $250 for a family

Nicole York:

portrait session was certainly not enough to pay for my cost of

Nicole York:

doing business and all of the self hate that I was throwing my

Nicole York:

way. So keep in mind, as we continue to talk about structure

Nicole York:

this morning, what do you want your daily life to look like?

Nicole York:

Because you can structure a business around that. And I

Nicole York:

don't think we realize that we think that we have to do the

Nicole York:

thing that other people were doing. And I think industry is

Nicole York:

learning now, we always kind of thought everybody needs to go

Nicole York:

into the office, right? But the way that we're positioned as an

Nicole York:

economy at this point, many, many businesses can function

Nicole York:

really well, with workers working from home. And this is

Nicole York:

kind of an interesting development, because now we're

Nicole York:

realizing, maybe we can actually build the structure of the

Nicole York:

business around the way that we work best, and not actually

Nicole York:

force ourselves into a business structure that doesn't work for

Nicole York:

us. So that is my piece of advice. And I am dying to hear

Nicole York:

Becca, Matt, having learned the lessons that you've learned so

Nicole York:

far, about what works for you and doesn't work for you in a

Nicole York:

business structure. What advice would you give to folks to help

Nicole York:

them avoid some of those pitfalls that

Unknown:

you happen to start?

Matt Stagliano:

I think the biggest thing for me is can, the

Matt Stagliano:

more you educate yourself, about what's out there, how people are

Matt Stagliano:

doing, what they do, how they're running their businesses, ingest

Matt Stagliano:

all of that, distill it down, and apply it to what feels right

Matt Stagliano:

to you. And there is no right or wrong, I think a lot of a lot of

Matt Stagliano:

artists, a lot of photographers get into this business, and they

Matt Stagliano:

think, you know, this person has the secret formula to a perfect

Matt Stagliano:

business, or this person has the the best IPS sales in the market

Matt Stagliano:

are these people are the best instructors ever. And they think

Matt Stagliano:

that if they just take that straight up model and apply it

Matt Stagliano:

to themselves, that it will work. And the second that they

Matt Stagliano:

hit resistance, they don't realize why. And it's because

Matt Stagliano:

they haven't really internalized what it means for them, and how

Matt Stagliano:

it's going to benefit their life. So the best advice that I

Matt Stagliano:

would give is, understand and learn as much as you can from as

Matt Stagliano:

many people as you can, as many mentors and people that have

Matt Stagliano:

built successful businesses, then take the parts that you

Matt Stagliano:

like, and get rid of the stuff that you don't. It's like making

Matt Stagliano:

music writing a song, take the influences from the people that

Matt Stagliano:

you love. Get rid of the stuff that you don't like, and make

Matt Stagliano:

your own song for your business. How was that? Was that too

Matt Stagliano:

poetic? That it kind of fell apart at the end?

Nicole York:

No, I like it. I mean, you can be jazz, right?

Nicole York:

You can totally,

Matt Stagliano:

I think it's I think it's just important to

Matt Stagliano:

constantly be understanding that your business is a living,

Matt Stagliano:

breathing organism. And it's going to change over time,

Matt Stagliano:

because you change over time. So understanding that you have the

Matt Stagliano:

capability to morph it into whatever you want at any given

Matt Stagliano:

time. So the more you learn the better.

Nicole York:

Absolutely. And I think you're right, Matt, I

Nicole York:

think we do kind of go into this journey expecting that there are

Nicole York:

tried and true structures that if we don't follow or somehow

Nicole York:

wrong, or we're not going to be successful. And I think in a big

Nicole York:

way, that's because a lot of the people who are doing things

Nicole York:

outside the box are not the ones teaching, right. Like, they're

Nicole York:

not usually the ones who are out there giving advice on how to

Nicole York:

build a business. Oftentimes, it's the people who have built

Nicole York:

something that's easily replicable. So they can say,

Nicole York:

Look, if you go do this thing, you're, you're gonna be okay.

Nicole York:

And we don't always hear from the people who have done

Nicole York:

something wildly different or have built themselves something

Nicole York:

that is a little more unique to them, because that's a lot

Nicole York:

harder to sell, right.

Matt Stagliano:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I

Matt Stagliano:

mean, it's it's no secret that Kat and I are big devotees of

Matt Stagliano:

the SU Bryce education world. However, Kat and I run our

Matt Stagliano:

businesses differently. There are things that are similar, but

Matt Stagliano:

she and I are different people have different philosophies have

Matt Stagliano:

different approaches on several things. So we run our businesses

Matt Stagliano:

differently. We're both successful at it. We could both

Matt Stagliano:

be called portrait studio photographers, but we run our

Matt Stagliano:

businesses differently and that's okay. So again, we got

Matt Stagliano:

all the information from the same source but interpreted

Matt Stagliano:

differently. And it worked out in our favor both ways.

Nicole York:

For sure, I'm about to come up on some cars. So I'd

Nicole York:

love to hear back if you have any response to that idea of, of

Nicole York:

the fact that one structure doesn't just because it was

Nicole York:

successful, we don't have to think that one structure is

Nicole York:

going to be right or worse.

Unknown:

Yeah, I feel like we're about to slip from a Matt's

Unknown:

smooth jazz, or isn't it original to my GarageBand, pop,

Unknown:

punk, angry ranting version of the same concept.

Cat Ford-Coates:

But yeah, I

Unknown:

mean, that that was definitely the waking up point

Unknown:

for me was like, not seeing myself represented in the

Unknown:

education that I was fighting. And seeing that other people's

Unknown:

structures, you know, weren't correct for the art that I

Unknown:

wanted to create, and was creating. And based on

Unknown:

everything that you guys said, really about how that a lot of

Unknown:

that information in the education just isn't out there.

Unknown:

And a lot of you know, contemporary socially, online

Unknown:

education, particularly for photography, I found is based

Unknown:

around replicating other people's business structures.

Unknown:

And there's a lot of really fantastic information out there,

Unknown:

there are some great educators, but they are focused on most of

Unknown:

the time of what they specifically do. And that isn't

Unknown:

the only way to be a photographer or to be an artist.

Unknown:

So for me, one, one thing that I still cannot find was how do you

Unknown:

sell compose it or composite photography, there is not really

Unknown:

like a good solid educational structure for that, but I have

Unknown:

found anywhere. And it's because the people that use that, I

Unknown:

mean, this is not a new concept, you know, composite and special

Unknown:

effects stuff in photography has been used for decades on

Unknown:

decades. Like even like the push into 3d right now with GC, a lot

Unknown:

of photo sphere has been used for a really, really long time.

Unknown:

But it hasn't always been accessible to you know, your

Unknown:

everyday person, you know, small business that works at home,

Unknown:

it's been used more in the commercial sphere for you know,

Unknown:

like, in the film industry, stuff like that it's been

Unknown:

around, but the education and how to build a business that

Unknown:

utilizes that isn't really there. So when I was kind of

Unknown:

making that transition from photography into more

Unknown:

illustrative work, I could not find anyone who really did what

Unknown:

I did, and there are at least, and no one that was sharing that

Unknown:

kind of information. And there was this wake up point for me,

Unknown:

you know, watching people like Sue Brice, who was absolutely

Unknown:

brilliant, like that woman is a powerhouse, she is captivating.

Unknown:

But it wasn't the right fit for me. And it was a learning

Unknown:

process. And it was stepping out of my comfort zone stepping away

Unknown:

from only looking at photographers, and looking at

Unknown:

other kinds of businesses, not even just art businesses, but

Unknown:

businesses as a whole. And understanding how they function,

Unknown:

how they found their clients, and then applying those skills

Unknown:

to myself and getting away from the people that I was trying to

Unknown:

market to that weren't interested in my products

Unknown:

anyway, and developing that on my own.

Nicole York:

Okay, so there's a lot of really interesting

Nicole York:

subtextual stuff happening in this conversation that I'm going

Nicole York:

to point out really quickly. And it's not entirely subtextual. I

Nicole York:

mean, we kind of have been hinting at it. But the fact that

Nicole York:

often when we learn about business, we go to learn from

Nicole York:

other people who are like us, or who are doing what we would

Nicole York:

consider successful in our field without taking the time to ask

Nicole York:

ourselves, but is that what I want? Because the idea of

Nicole York:

success is so desirable, right? Like, we want to be successful?

Nicole York:

Of course we do. And so we gravitate towards these people.

Nicole York:

Who are I mean, of course, that's why we love Sue Brice,

Nicole York:

right. Like she's not only an amazing photographer, but a

Nicole York:

fantastic teacher. And she has methods that really freakin work

Nicole York:

for people. But we have to go into those educational

Nicole York:

situations, understand understanding enough about

Nicole York:

ourselves to recognize what pieces we can use, and what

Nicole York:

pieces aren't right for us. And if we just try to smash

Nicole York:

ourselves wholesale into a structure without understanding

Nicole York:

whether or not it is going to be profitable, desirable, enjoyable

Nicole York:

for us, if it actually works with the kind of work that we

Nicole York:

want to produce. Man, we're going to be in for loads of

Nicole York:

trouble. And then we start to feel frustrated with the

Nicole York:

situation because like you said, Becca, we can't find the stuff

Nicole York:

that is actually speaking directly to us. And that might

Nicole York:

mean that it's because we need to be frankensteining pieces of

Nicole York:

businesses from other places and squishing them together. So

Nicole York:

maybe there's really something to this idea that when we're

Nicole York:

looking at how to structure our business, we need to slow down a

Nicole York:

little bit. I don't know about you guys. But I bowled into

Nicole York:

business like, really like a bull in a china shop, I just put

Nicole York:

my head down and I ran dried, I ran dried in, I did not take a

Nicole York:

whole lot of time to learn even about what business structure

Nicole York:

should look like. What all I needed to keep in mind, whether

Nicole York:

I needed to be putting money away for taxes, like, I was just

Nicole York:

like, well, people are paying me, I don't want to go to jail

Nicole York:

for like stealing money from the IRS. So I probably better be a

Nicole York:

real business. And then I just started doing stuff. Man, I kind

Nicole York:

of got myself into so much trouble, life would have been

Nicole York:

way, way easier. If I would have just been like, you know what, I

Nicole York:

can take my time, there's no reason to rush into this thing.

Nicole York:

I can slow down a little bit and feel my way through some of this

Nicole York:

stuff and try to figure out what's gonna work for me, making

Nicole York:

sure that I take the time to be self aware. Because I did not do

Nicole York:

that at all. I just wanted, I just wanted to make things I

Nicole York:

wanted to get some money. And I wanted the approbation that came

Nicole York:

along from giving people something they liked. I really

Nicole York:

wasn't interested in being self aware enough to recognize what

Nicole York:

my needs were, like, what did I need from this business? How did

Nicole York:

I need the business to fulfill me, not just the money that was

Nicole York:

gonna come from it, but the actual act of doing business. So

Nicole York:

maybe slow down, and learn more, and learn more from multiple

Nicole York:

places. And be self aware enough to recognize what you actually

Nicole York:

need your business to do for you. Because if it was just

Nicole York:

money, you could get that working for somebody else. There

Nicole York:

must be something that we need from that business. And once we

Nicole York:

know what it is that has to make it easier to start recognizing

Nicole York:

which parts of a business structure will work for us and

Nicole York:

which parts won't.

Unknown:

I'm curious a little bit because I have heard a

Unknown:

couple people in this room mention this and other people

Unknown:

elsewhere. But um, has anyone really felt like the money was

Unknown:

their initial driving factor to get into the arts? If anyone's

Unknown:

going to answer yes,

Matt Stagliano:

yes, yes, I had, I had no real other options. I

Matt Stagliano:

lost my job, and had a camera and started taking pictures and

Matt Stagliano:

made money. And then I immediately turn that it said I

Matt Stagliano:

can turn this into money. I saw the niche. I saw the gap in my

Matt Stagliano:

area and went after with the intention of making money and

Matt Stagliano:

did not have that artistic drive that I have now. So yeah, at the

Matt Stagliano:

beginning, it was all Oh, caveat, I sucked at it.

Nicole York:

I'm interested in that. Because with the with the

Nicole York:

experience that you already had in corporate, I have to assume

Nicole York:

it's not like you didn't have the resume that would have

Nicole York:

allowed you to work somewhere else had you chose to.

Matt Stagliano:

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, after I lost my

Matt Stagliano:

job, I did do some consulting for a a mergers and acquisitions

Matt Stagliano:

boutique firm out of out of the Bay Area. And that was great

Matt Stagliano:

money, I realized that I just didn't want that corporate life

Matt Stagliano:

anymore. It just wasn't for me, I didn't want to work for

Matt Stagliano:

somebody else. I didn't want to do spreadsheets that I want to

Matt Stagliano:

sit in a cubicle and make PowerPoints and use all the

Matt Stagliano:

buzzwords. But I knew I'd be able to translate some of that

Matt Stagliano:

experience from an environment where I was working with a lot

Matt Stagliano:

of small businesses, learning from them, and then applying it

Matt Stagliano:

to whatever it is that I built. So photography happened to me,

Matt Stagliano:

rather than me seeking it out, I just realized that I had an

Matt Stagliano:

avenue that I could put all of this experience to use towards.

Matt Stagliano:

So I guess it's you know, a little bit of a mix. I knew I

Matt Stagliano:

didn't want to be corporate anymore. But at the same time, I

Matt Stagliano:

had no idea what I was doing with photography.

Nicole York:

Right. But I guess what I'm getting at here is it's

Nicole York:

not as if you didn't have the option to make money in other

Nicole York:

places there. But something about being your own boss, and

Nicole York:

making your own schedule or running your own thing, taking

Nicole York:

something you could do and making money off of it was more

Nicole York:

appealing to you, right?

Matt Stagliano:

Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, I was just I

Matt Stagliano:

was totally burned out from the corporate world. And yeah, that

Matt Stagliano:

was a big motivation. I didn't know what would be next, but I

Matt Stagliano:

knew I didn't want that. Right, right.

Nicole York:

Yeah, for sure. And so even that, I think

Nicole York:

understanding that about yourself obviously was kind of

Nicole York:

the first step in your decision making process. Because if you

Nicole York:

had wanted to, you could have very easily set up an S corp and

Nicole York:

had a board that you were accountable to as well. Like you

Nicole York:

could have very easily made a lot of other strategic decisions

Nicole York:

that would have put you in a position less like the one you

Nicole York:

have. Now, if you weren't aware of the fact that, that life,

Nicole York:

that corporate life and being accountable to somebody else for

Nicole York:

your decisions was not what you wanted anymore.

Matt Stagliano:

Yeah, totally. And I think I, you know, the,

Matt Stagliano:

what I also didn't want to do was Institute all these

Matt Stagliano:

corporate policies on something where I just be creating the

Matt Stagliano:

life that I didn't want. Right. So while I did keep some

Matt Stagliano:

rigidity in how I structured the business, and some of the

Matt Stagliano:

formalities at the beginning, that's about where it stopped. I

Matt Stagliano:

mean, you guys listen to me, you know that I'm not necessarily a

Matt Stagliano:

corporate fit these days. But that doesn't mean that I don't

Matt Stagliano:

have all of that experience and interaction that I can use

Matt Stagliano:

towards whatever business I start, whether it's photography,

Matt Stagliano:

or crocheting, or you know, being a barista at Starbucks

Matt Stagliano:

doesn't matter, I can still apply all that experience. I

Matt Stagliano:

think the same thing applies here. When we're thinking about

Matt Stagliano:

structuring our business. Take all of those elements that you

Matt Stagliano:

like, and that you don't like about your daily life, about

Matt Stagliano:

your job about how you know you get driven, and start to parse

Matt Stagliano:

that out, ask yourself the hard questions. And I think that

Matt Stagliano:

answer will present itself.

Nicole York:

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, like hearing you

Nicole York:

say that, it makes a lot of sense now to hear you say that,

Nicole York:

that that's why you needed that flexibility. I mean, yesterday,

Nicole York:

you talked about that flexibility in your business

Nicole York:

being a really important aspect. And hearing you say this, it

Nicole York:

makes so much sense. Because you needed to get away from that

Nicole York:

rigid structure. And that I think, is really at the heart of

Nicole York:

what we're talking about. When we say things like, understand

Nicole York:

yourself, understand what you need from your business, because

Nicole York:

it isn't just the money, you could go work at McDonald's and

Nicole York:

make money you could go work, wherever your skill set lends

Nicole York:

you to and make money, but for some reason, you chose this

Nicole York:

instead. So there's something there that we have to keep in

Nicole York:

mind when we are structuring our business, because I could have

Nicole York:

took a little extra training and then tried to find a job for

Nicole York:

somebody somewhere. I know lots of retail photographers who work

Nicole York:

directly for a company, I know, lots of illustrators who work

Nicole York:

directly for, you know, companies in the freelance for

Nicole York:

big companies. And so the work that they does, that they does,

Nicole York:

the work that they do is directly influenced by what that

Nicole York:

company needs. And knowing this about myself, now, as I move

Nicole York:

into the next phase of business, I realized that I'm not really

Nicole York:

interested in making what other people want. I do this because I

Nicole York:

have a deep compulsion to create things, and to create my things,

Nicole York:

the things that are in my head. And so I have to figure out how

Nicole York:

to build a structure around that, and one that will benefit

Nicole York:

me, so it must give me that need. And then it must also

Nicole York:

obviously make money otherwise, I should just be doing it as a

Nicole York:

hobby instead. So when we're asking ourselves these

Nicole York:

questions, what do we have to keep in mind on how that

Nicole York:

actually relates to structure? By that I mean, for you, Matt,

Nicole York:

you knew that you needed some of that flexibility, you wanted to

Nicole York:

be your own boss, and not be kind of subject to that

Nicole York:

corporate structure and mindset. And now, you're building this

Nicole York:

business for yourself. So how does that translate into actual

Nicole York:

structure? Like in what places did that influence how you built

Nicole York:

your business? I know this is kind of a tricky question to ask

Nicole York:

because we're looking at things like what are we making? Who are

Nicole York:

we making it for? Where are we selling it? How are we selling

Nicole York:

it? Are we doing in person sales? are we sending people

Nicole York:

Digital's? Are we it's like there's there's a whole lot

Nicole York:

obviously more than we can talk about just today. That goes into

Nicole York:

the structure. And we're gonna get into the nuts and bolts more

Nicole York:

of it tomorrow, the actual here's what to do. But I think

Nicole York:

we need to understand why the structure is important for us

Nicole York:

before we do that, and so we need to know how these needs

Nicole York:

that we have actually translate into structure. So I don't know

Nicole York:

if I The general question is making much sense, I think a

Nicole York:

minute.

Matt Stagliano:

I mean, I get it. So there, there were some

Matt Stagliano:

things when I was starting stone tree, you know, I'd created an

Matt Stagliano:

umbrella LLC. And I'd put a couple of DBAs underneath that.

Matt Stagliano:

Because back when I started the first brand in 2013, I set it up

Matt Stagliano:

so that I wanted to be Don Draper, right? I wanted to be a

Matt Stagliano:

creative art director and have people working for me, I didn't

Matt Stagliano:

necessarily want to be out in the field every day, shooting

Matt Stagliano:

photos, I wanted to direct the artistic vision of the company

Matt Stagliano:

and have other people create that I did that as a loose

Matt Stagliano:

structure. Because that was generally the ultimate goal. I

Matt Stagliano:

didn't have any confidence in myself as a photographer. So I

Matt Stagliano:

was just like, well, I can manage. So why not do that. And

Matt Stagliano:

then as time went on, and I fell in love with the art of

Matt Stagliano:

photography, I found myself still holding on to the idea

Matt Stagliano:

that I'm going to grow this business. So what do I need to

Matt Stagliano:

do in the in the eventuality that I'm going to have people

Matt Stagliano:

working for me? Well, I can institute the right systems and

Matt Stagliano:

processes and policies now. And I can work out all the kinks

Matt Stagliano:

myself, so that when I start to hire people, I have a very clean

Matt Stagliano:

set of workflows and processes and systems that can train the

Matt Stagliano:

people underneath me, so that they're adhering to the same

Matt Stagliano:

vision, the same philosophy, and the same, you know, business

Matt Stagliano:

attitude that I have. From there. You know, there's a lot

Matt Stagliano:

of flexibility. I'm sure it will change once I start bringing

Matt Stagliano:

employees on. But that's what I had as a very loose vision to

Matt Stagliano:

tie everything together. And believe me, there are some days

Matt Stagliano:

that I just want to go deliver pizza and hang this whole thing

Matt Stagliano:

up. But I think, you know, putting all this effort and time

Matt Stagliano:

in place now is only going to serve me better down the

Nicole York:

road. Absolutely.

Matt Stagliano:

Did that answer your question? I did that

Matt Stagliano:

answer?

Nicole York:

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think that

Nicole York:

also brings up something that we should probably mention, because

Nicole York:

sometimes the way that we're talking about this, and and

Nicole York:

talking about some of our own struggles, can make it sound

Nicole York:

like this should be a very discouraging process. And we

Nicole York:

need to be transparent about the fact that this is not always

Nicole York:

fun. Like running your own business does not mean that

Nicole York:

every single day is an absolute joy. And you're so glad that you

Nicole York:

did it all the time. Sometimes, you really do just want to run

Nicole York:

away and like go work at Home Depot or something where you can

Nicole York:

walk down the aisles and like, check out crafting supplies,

Nicole York:

smell the wood, like some days, you really do just want to quit,

Nicole York:

but you have that philosophy. To fall back on. You have that

Nicole York:

internal why to fall back on. And oftentimes, it can be easier

Nicole York:

to deal with the fact that business is hard if we just know

Nicole York:

that even the people we look up to recognize that business is

Nicole York:

hard. Like this stuff is hard. It's not always easy. We do

Nicole York:

struggle with this. But we believe that it's worth it

Nicole York:

right. That's why we're still here. So I just want to get that

Nicole York:

out of the way really quickly. Because I know that there are

Nicole York:

some folks in the audience right now who are going man, this shit

Nicole York:

is discouraging. But please don't, please don't be

Nicole York:

discouraged. Ask yourself two questions. When you hear the

Nicole York:

conversations that we're having right now. Ask yourself first.

Nicole York:

If this is discouraging enough that it makes me not want to get

Nicole York:

into business, probably you should not be in business, okay?

Nicole York:

Because most of us will start this because we want to do art.

Nicole York:

And then we want to make money off of our art. And we think

Nicole York:

that running our own business is the way to do that. It's not

Nicole York:

always the only way to do that. You can sell art on the side.

Nicole York:

You can hire somebody, you can hire somebody on commission, you

Nicole York:

can go on Upwork and find somebody who will work on

Nicole York:

commission, not always, but you can, there are people out there,

Nicole York:

there is creative ways that you can deal with wanting to make

Nicole York:

some money off of the things that you made. Without going

Nicole York:

into full time business for yourself. You need to know

Nicole York:

whether or not you want to be a business person, because that is

Nicole York:

what you're about to be. The art stuff is only going to be if

Nicole York:

you're lucky. It's going to be 30% of what you do

Nicole York:

I know I'm sorry. But that's the truth. If you want to be a

Nicole York:

business person, you're being a business now. You are not just

Nicole York:

an artist, you are a business person. So if you want to be an

Nicole York:

artist and not a business person, you need to find

Nicole York:

yourself representation Do you need to find somebody who will

Nicole York:

sell your things for you. And if that means I have to save up for

Nicole York:

six months and my job, so that I can hire somebody for two

Nicole York:

months, to get my, my business off the ground to start selling

Nicole York:

things for me, then that's what you need to do. But do not lock

Nicole York:

yourself into a business. And make that be your sole income,

Nicole York:

if you are going to despise every minute of your life sucks.

Nicole York:

Don't do that to yourself. And if you hear this now and you

Nicole York:

think, Okay, sounds like there's some lumps and bumps, but I want

Nicole York:

to make this shit work like this is not going to stop me, then

Nicole York:

you probably should be in business. And don't be scared

Nicole York:

about the parts that are going to be hard moving forward,

Nicole York:

because you can overcome that stuff. That's why everybody

Nicole York:

who's still in business here is still in business. Because we

Nicole York:

can live the life that we want to live, even though there are

Nicole York:

hard parts. So I just feel like that's really important to get

Nicole York:

out of the way first, and then second. I appreciate that, that

Nicole York:

you were really able to look at understanding those parts about

Nicole York:

yourself, recognizing something that you wanted for the future,

Nicole York:

and then asking yourself, okay, how do I structure this now, in

Nicole York:

a way that that becomes possible in the future? That doesn't mean

Nicole York:

that that's your only option? Right? Because obviously you

Nicole York:

you're not, you're not Don Draper in Maine right now. But

Nicole York:

you made that a possibility. And you were still able to change

Nicole York:

directions, even though that possibility still exists out

Nicole York:

there. I'm imagining, like, if you wanted to, you probably

Nicole York:

could flip that switch, couldn't you?

Matt Stagliano:

Absolutely. And, you know, I think it's, it's

Matt Stagliano:

interesting. There are things that I've done and accomplished

Matt Stagliano:

in this business, that I had no idea where possible, or even

Matt Stagliano:

existed when I started the business. And I'm so grateful

Matt Stagliano:

that I stuck through a lot of the hard times and just kept

Matt Stagliano:

putting in the work and develop the business into something that

Matt Stagliano:

I absolutely love. But you don't do that unless you stick with

Matt Stagliano:

it. And you stick with the hard times and you keep looking

Matt Stagliano:

inward and you keep being self aware and constantly course

Matt Stagliano:

correcting. Because the roadmap that you lay out right now is

Matt Stagliano:

not going to be the same roadmap you're following next year or

Matt Stagliano:

the year after hell, it might not be the same roadmap you

Matt Stagliano:

following next week. But if you do at least set yourself in a

Matt Stagliano:

direction, you'll be amazed at what you're able to develop,

Matt Stagliano:

you're amazed at what the business will do. And you're

Matt Stagliano:

amazed at what you'll find out about yourself. And that's the

Matt Stagliano:

important thing is that there are no rules when you're working

Matt Stagliano:

for yourself outside of you know, standard legal things. But

Matt Stagliano:

there are no rules. And you can make it whatever you want,

Matt Stagliano:

whenever you want. And you can punch that clock or not punch

Matt Stagliano:

the clock, it all comes down to understanding what is going to

Matt Stagliano:

make you happiest, because that's why you're in business

Matt Stagliano:

for yourself is to make yourself happy at some level. So know

Matt Stagliano:

what that level is, and start working towards it.

Nicole York:

Yes, go. We've talked about how inertia is the

Nicole York:

biggest enemy that we have, because it actually costs you

Nicole York:

more energy to start moving than it does to keep moving once

Nicole York:

you're already in motion. And you can change directions, but

Nicole York:

you have to be moving in order to change directions. If I turn

Nicole York:

left, but I'm standing still, I might see a different view, but

Nicole York:

I'm not actually going anywhere. So we got to be moving in order

Nicole York:

for that to happen. And I just want to throw out a few examples

Nicole York:

here. Just so that you see like when Matt says there's no rules

Nicole York:

in business. As far as when we're talking about structure.

Nicole York:

Guys, there are people who get paid as professional cuddlers.

Nicole York:

Okay, there are folks who are working on Patreon, who are

Nicole York:

having people pay for a chapter of a book at a time that they

Nicole York:

release maybe once a month, and they are making 10s of 1000s of

Nicole York:

dollars. There are people making a living selling pictures of

Nicole York:

their feet. There are people making a living doing, you know,

Nicole York:

not suitable for work art that gets sold as Digital's and sent

Nicole York:

to people they've never seen before. There are people who

Nicole York:

walk humans, we're just gonna go for a walk and chat like and

Nicole York:

they will pay for that because somebody out there values having

Nicole York:

company on their walk enough to hand over their money. So when

Nicole York:

Matt says there really no rules in business, there really are no

Nicole York:

rules, unless we're talking about obvious things like the

Nicole York:

IRS and they will come and force the rules on you. But the fact

Nicole York:

is, you can make good money doing almost anything. But you

Nicole York:

have to be aware that that's a possibility. And you have to

Nicole York:

know enough about yourself so that when you start structuring

Nicole York:

this business, you can stick it out long enough to start seeing

Nicole York:

the results. And those results may not come in for the first

Nicole York:

year, two years. Maybe they happen to you in six months. And

Nicole York:

that's frickin awesome. And maybe it takes two years to

Nicole York:

stick it out. But you really have to be committed to what

Nicole York:

you're about to do, because it is going to require some

Nicole York:

sacrifice. There are people who have slept on mattresses, I

Nicole York:

interviewed this photographer, Jabari Jacobs, go look him up.

Nicole York:

He's super great, really, really nice guy, really good, just good

Nicole York:

soul. And he slept, he moved, he left his government job, moved

Nicole York:

to Los Angeles, slept on the floor, and in a relative's

Nicole York:

apartment, on a blow up mattress for a year trying to make it as

Nicole York:

a photographer. He is now shooting for you know, Netflix,

Nicole York:

he's photographed Earth, Wind and Fire. Like he just has this

Nicole York:

rad career. He gets to travel, work with really cool people.

Nicole York:

That shit required some sacrifice. And the way that he

Nicole York:

structured his business he's successful in it is not the same

Nicole York:

way. Matt has structured his business. They're both taking

Nicole York:

photographs for a living. But they knew enough about what they

Nicole York:

wanted to point themselves, at least in the right direction,

Nicole York:

right? So tomorrow, when we actually talk about the

Nicole York:

structure itself, what do I want to do? Do I want to take

Nicole York:

portraits? Do I want to paint landscapes? Do I want to etc,

Nicole York:

etc? Okay, how Who am I selling them to, that's the conversation

Nicole York:

we're gonna have tomorrow. But before we have that, you need to

Nicole York:

know enough about yourself to know these things. And then be

Nicole York:

willing to put in the work. And it is going to be work. But it's

Nicole York:

worth it. And you're still getting something from it a

Nicole York:

sense of validation, a sense of purpose, the ability to help

Nicole York:

other people to pay your bills, all the things that are kind of

Nicole York:

combined in this whole business adventure, you're still getting

Nicole York:

those things. I'm going to hand it over to Matt and Becca,

Nicole York:

because the grounds crew has been out for the last couple

Nicole York:

days. I'm going to walk right past them, it's gonna be real

Nicole York:

loud. So let's kind of continue along in that vein, and then

Nicole York:

we'll, I'll hop back.

Matt Stagliano:

Back, I know that you you had unmuted a while

Matt Stagliano:

back and I think I talked over you is there something that you

Unknown:

know, again, I am the the angry yelling, echo of

Unknown:

everything smooth and beautiful. You have said? Yeah, I mean, I

Unknown:

feel like between you and Nicole, you've covered a lot of

Unknown:

my own personal feelings, and, you know, criticisms of myself

Unknown:

and just, you know, the general sphere of learning how to be

Unknown:

successful. I mean, it's hard. It's all really hard. And I, I

Unknown:

kind of have a distaste for because guru culture in general,

Unknown:

and, you know,

Nicole York:

having those answers,

Matt Stagliano:

totally, and you picked up on the same thing that

Matt Stagliano:

I did. And that's exactly what my next point was going to be

Matt Stagliano:

was, if there is someone selling you on the fact that there is a

Matt Stagliano:

simple, easy answer to getting into business, or there's one

Matt Stagliano:

way to do things, and this is the way, just be very skeptical

Matt Stagliano:

at first, learn what you can about it and see if it makes

Matt Stagliano:

sense. There's never been a diet pill or hair replacement therapy

Matt Stagliano:

or anything that that works as easily as things say. So why

Matt Stagliano:

would we think that there's some guru on Instagram that has all

Matt Stagliano:

the answers that no one's found out yet? So, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Matt Stagliano:

I'm just, I'm a big fan of learning from as many possible

Matt Stagliano:

places as possible in formulating your own way of

Matt Stagliano:

doing things. And you

Unknown:

can walk away from that stuff with really valuable

Unknown:

information anyway. And I think it all comes back to that

Unknown:

philosophy of learning and that kind of growth mindset that I

Unknown:

know we've touched on a bunch of times. But it is definitely a

Unknown:

process and it takes so much introspection into you know,

Unknown:

yourself and figuring out how you can best serve other people

Unknown:

because that is what the act of having a business is it can't be

Unknown:

completely self serving, even if you're, you know, just making

Unknown:

art that you want to make, like you know, I desire to and like

Unknown:

Nicole does, or you know, a lot of painters or illustrators or

Unknown:

sculptors, whatever they make their own things that serve

Unknown:

their own artistic soul. But there is going to be someone who

Unknown:

wants a piece of that. What like, you know, Nicole's

Unknown:

examples of people who need to be walked or you know, want to

Unknown:

have pictures of feet or whatever the strange thing is

Unknown:

that you might have to offer I mean, there's someone out there

Unknown:

that wants that. And it's a matter of finding those people

Unknown:

and learning how to connect with them. And that's a really long

Unknown:

process because, you know, for people like me who are a little

Unknown:

bit off kilter and odd, you know, my experiences working

Unknown:

with like children or shooting weddings didn't go over all that

Unknown:

well. I mean, the whole The photos, you know, are great and

Unknown:

whatever. But it wasn't serving my artistic needs, so I wasn't

Unknown:

serving them so well. And our personalities weren't always the

Unknown:

best mesh because our interests and our aesthetics were not

Unknown:

always the same. But now I've reached a point where I do know

Unknown:

how to reach the right people who appreciate the themes and

Unknown:

the look and the everything that I have to offer them. And so

Unknown:

that's when my business could take that turn. And I could

Unknown:

apply all these little tips and tricks from every guru, and

Unknown:

every business class and every other business I've worked for,

Unknown:

into creating something that was successful. Hi, cat.

Nicole York:

Maybe, there she goes. Hi, Miss lady. Hey, sorry,

Cat Ford-Coates:

I'm super late today.

Nicole York:

Hey, no worries, we'll take you whenever we can

Nicole York:

get you. So yeah, we're not going to have a whole lot of

Nicole York:

time. I'm sorry, I see your hand, Carol, we're not going to

Nicole York:

have a whole lot of time for discussion on this part of it.

Nicole York:

Today, we did chat a little bit long. So it's gonna kind of be

Nicole York:

squeezed in today. But just keep in mind. So if we were to look

Nicole York:

at today's conversation is kind of the introduction to business

Nicole York:

structure. What we're talking about is just understanding that

Nicole York:

the structure we build for our business needs to be based off

Nicole York:

of who we are, what we know about ourselves, what we want to

Nicole York:

do and who we want to serve. And I probably could have said that

Nicole York:

beginning. But we've been discussing understanding who we

Nicole York:

are, I think, for the most part of this conversation, because

Nicole York:

that's the most important part of building this foundation, you

Nicole York:

need to know enough about yourself to know why running a

Nicole York:

business is the thing you should do. And I've recognized at this

Nicole York:

point, I'm kind of an hireable. From like, a working full time

Nicole York:

perspective. And it's not I mean, I have a lot of qualities

Nicole York:

that I think as a, as a business owner, I would want in

Nicole York:

somebody's like I have, I have a need to please. So I really want

Nicole York:

to do a good job for you. And that matters to me at a very

Nicole York:

deep core level. And if I disappoint you it like will

Nicole York:

break me. And all you have to tell me is like, give me a pat

Nicole York:

on the head and tell me good girl and I will work myself to

Nicole York:

the bone for you, I can't help it, I just have this desperate

Nicole York:

need for approbation. But I've recognized that that is actually

Nicole York:

a really dangerous thing for me to bring into the equation as

Nicole York:

somebody who's being hired, because it means that I will

Nicole York:

ruin myself, I will ruin my relationships, I will ignore

Nicole York:

people, I just need to make you happy. I'm like a golden

Nicole York:

retriever. Somebody, somebody told me I was the golden

Nicole York:

retriever friend. And it's probably really true. Like I

Nicole York:

will run for you until I die if you just tell me I did a good

Nicole York:

job. So I am not probably the best fit to be hired. But there

Nicole York:

are still things I can do myself that I can earn a living from.

Nicole York:

And if I can figure out how to structure those in a way that

Nicole York:

suits who I am as a person, and what I need from that business.

Nicole York:

That approbation, sometimes that comes in the form of money that

Nicole York:

needs to do good for somebody else that I have, if my highest

Nicole York:

kind of motivating. Interest is love, right? Like loving on

Nicole York:

people, having those relationships, doing good for

Nicole York:

people seeing them improve in some way or have a better life

Nicole York:

because of our interaction. I can take that core need and look

Nicole York:

at the business I want to build and say how do I make sure that

Nicole York:

I structure what I'm doing around this need. Because if

Nicole York:

it's just for the money, I can do something else. But I get to

Nicole York:

build something that suits me from the ground up. So with this

Nicole York:

little beating heart at the center, I get to build the

Nicole York:

scaffolding and the structure to support what I want to do with

Nicole York:

my life. And that is to tell stories, to help other people

Nicole York:

tell stories, and to have a safe and comfortable existence for my

Nicole York:

family. So that is going to inform every structural decision

Nicole York:

I make for my business, that is going to be why I will

Nicole York:

collaborate with people one on one, if I am collaborating, that

Nicole York:

is why when I make something, I'm going to pour my heart out

Nicole York:

into it, and then try to get it to the kind of people who are

Nicole York:

going to benefit not just somebody who's gonna say, Oh,

Nicole York:

that's a pretty picture and go on. But somebody who's gonna

Nicole York:

say, oh, that should move to me. This is what I need in my life.

Nicole York:

That is going to influence all the decisions I make moving

Nicole York:

forward. So taking this day, and then using this examples that

Nicole York:

we've had so far from myself from Becca from Matt, to go,

Nicole York:

Okay, we know what it looks like when we just jam ourselves into

Nicole York:

existing business structures that don't suit us. It doesn't

Nicole York:

work. which ends up in a Frankenstein a business that

Nicole York:

wasn't purpose built to suit our needs. And we know what it looks

Nicole York:

like when we begin to change those things moving forward. So

Nicole York:

that we have businesses that do suit our needs that fill us up

Nicole York:

that make us happy. Does that mean that everything is always

Nicole York:

going to be smooth sailing? No, there's going to be hard stuff.

Nicole York:

But we're moving, we've moved in that direction. One, even one

Nicole York:

step forward is progress. Right? And if that's all we can take at

Nicole York:

a time, that's still okay. We are still going forward. So

Nicole York:

understanding this about ourselves, asking ourselves, why

Nicole York:

do we want to be in business? What is this business serving in

Nicole York:

us? Because it's not just the money, of course, it's the money

Nicole York:

the money is important. But that's not the only reason

Nicole York:

because we could be working for somebody else for money. So dig

Nicole York:

in deep, because there is something in there that says, I

Nicole York:

should be doing this for myself instead of for somebody else.

Nicole York:

Who am I serving? Like, what am I getting out of this? Who was

Nicole York:

the person I'm supposed to be giving my work to? Or working

Nicole York:

with? How does that make my daily life look, because

Nicole York:

tomorrow, when we talk about the actual nuts and bolts of

Nicole York:

structure, like what we make, who we sell, to where we sell

Nicole York:

it, how we sell it, all those kinds of things, what the

Nicole York:

customer journey looks like, etc, etc. What we learned about

Nicole York:

ourselves today, and what we want from our businesses is

Nicole York:

going to influence every single one of those decisions, as will

Nicole York:

the last two weeks of conversation. That's why we

Nicole York:

started out with our relationship with money, and

Nicole York:

understanding all of that stuff. So that when we get to this

Nicole York:

point of actually starting the structure of our business, we

Nicole York:

would know where we needed to go. Alright, it's time for final

Nicole York:

thoughts from the moderators. And then we will begin.

Unknown:

Calgary, Matt,

Matt Stagliano:

no final thoughts. Becca? How about you?

Matt Stagliano:

No, actually, I think I think it was a great conversation today.

Matt Stagliano:

I'm really excited about tomorrow's conversation as well.

Matt Stagliano:

And kind of taking this to a deeper level. So no, I think if

Matt Stagliano:

I could distill everything that I said down to one sentence, go

Matt Stagliano:

learn and make your business your own. That's it.

Unknown:

Word. Yeah. I mean, we definitely were a little bit

Unknown:

abstract today. Which, again, not trying to be my own form of

Unknown:

weirdo guru here. But I know I'm happy to answer any more

Unknown:

specific questions. If anyone wants to reach out to me, you

Unknown:

know, through our various social medias. I'm totally cool with

Unknown:

that. But it is it is so specific to the individual and

Unknown:

the the choices you can make. So you know, making sure you spend

Unknown:

that time in reflection on yourself and what matters to

Unknown:

you. So you are can provide the best product and the best

Unknown:

service is really what's going to differentiate your business

Unknown:

and make it successful before yourself. So excited for

Nicole York:

me too, I know you didn't get to be here, cat, but

Nicole York:

I know you got

Unknown:

Oh, well. I mean, I

Cat Ford-Coates:

don't even know like, I'm excited to listen to

Cat Ford-Coates:

the replay. It sounds like today's today's conversation was

Cat Ford-Coates:

was pretty good. I mean, and I'll just sort of echo, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, Becca statement about like, yeah, the choices that you

Cat Ford-Coates:

make about the foundation of your business really have to be

Cat Ford-Coates:

tailored around what it is that you want your business to be

Cat Ford-Coates:

today, tomorrow, and what you want your life to look like, and

Cat Ford-Coates:

then you sort of reverse engineer that to choosing you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, the structure that's most appropriate for those goals.

Cat Ford-Coates:

That Yep, can't wait for tomorrow now. And then we've got

Cat Ford-Coates:

that call tonight. And oh,

Nicole York:

yes, yes, yes. That's the what I was just gonna

Nicole York:

mention. So first of all, fantastic conversation today,

Nicole York:

guys. And yeah, it was a little more abstract today. But that's

Nicole York:

kind of how we need to begin these conversations, right, we

Nicole York:

have to start more high level, and then make sure that we have

Nicole York:

a good overall picture of what we're looking at. So that when

Nicole York:

we drill down, the things that we look at, actually suit the

Nicole York:

picture as a whole. It's kind of like most photographers will

Nicole York:

know, if you're dodging and burning. If you don't zoom out,

Nicole York:

you're going to end up with plastic and loss of bone

Nicole York:

structure and everything else, you really need to zoom out to

Nicole York:

get a look at the overall picture so that the changes you

Nicole York:

make are suitable to where you want the picture to go. And

Nicole York:

that's kind of where we're starting with today's

Nicole York:

conversation is looking at things in the abstract and the

Nicole York:

wider picture trying to get a really good idea of what the

Nicole York:

bigger picture is so that as we drill down to the foundations of

Nicole York:

business structure, we know where we want that to go. We

Nicole York:

need to understand what kind of build We want to make, so that

Nicole York:

we can make the right blueprints. Because if you

Nicole York:

wanted to church and I am like thinking horse barn, then we're

Nicole York:

not going to end up with a very pleasant structure. So that's

Nicole York:

the conversation for today. I hope you guys will join us this

Nicole York:

evening at seven o'clock pm Mountain Standard Time on, we're

Nicole York:

gonna be on Facebook, we're going to be on YouTube. So you

Nicole York:

can be there in the artists words Facebook group, or on

Nicole York:

Nicole creates on YouTube. So we're going to have a live

Nicole York:

conversation, we'll cover a little bit of the finance talks

Nicole York:

that we had, we'll come back to how that is affecting some of

Nicole York:

the business talk that we're doing, you know, throughout this

Nicole York:

week, and then we'll also do some critique. So if you have an

Nicole York:

image you want to add to the pool for potential critique from

Nicole York:

the artist forge members, then go ahead and make sure that

Nicole York:

that's in the Facebook group with the hashtag T AF critique.

Nicole York:

That way, it's in the pool, we can snatch an image up from that

Nicole York:

for our critique segment of the live show. It's about an hour

Nicole York:

long, so I hope you'll come and hang interact with us. That's

Nicole York:

the whole reason it's alive, just like this morning is live

Nicole York:

so you can share your thoughts. We want to hear what you think

Nicole York:

about these subjects to it's the interaction that really makes it

Nicole York:

worthwhile. So we hope you'll come and join us tonight. In the

Nicole York:

meantime, be thinking about some of those questions and those

Nicole York:

decisions that we were talking about making sure that you

Nicole York:

consider that stuff. Because tomorrow as we introduce

Nicole York:

business structure, and as we get into that conversation,

Nicole York:

we're really going to be asking you to look at the real hard

Nicole York:

line structure of your business, what you're doing and how you're

Nicole York:

doing it so that we can explain and kind of provide an example

Nicole York:

of what it looks like to take these ideas and then see them

Nicole York:

come to life in real time. So until then, we hope you'll join

Nicole York:

us tonight at seven. We hope you join us tomorrow morning. I hope

Nicole York:

you'll be with us and have a fantastic day guys. Go make

Nicole York:

something amazing and we'll see you in the morning.

Matt Stagliano:

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

Matt Stagliano:

discussion moderated by all of us at the artists Forge. We hope

Matt Stagliano:

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

Matt Stagliano:

episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit

Matt Stagliano:

the artists forge.com and go make something incredible

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About the Podcast

Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge
How to Critique Art
Learn how mindset, creativity, and visual literacy will help you think like an artist so you can create work you love and build a career that matters; bridging the gap between technique and art.

About your host

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Nicole York