full

full
Published on:

14th Feb 2022

What Business Are You Building

How is your business going to add value to the marketplace? What niche will you fill, what problems will you solve, and how will running a business that serves those needs make your life better, not just in earning an income, but in meeting your individual needs? Having clarity around those answers will help guide you in assembling the nuts and bolts of your business so the structure you build not only serves the needs of your customer but makes your life better.

In this episode, you'll learn:

  • How to find a niche
  • How the structure of your business can support the value you add to the market
  • That the value you give as an artist is related to the emotional and psychological needs being filled and not necessarily the physical product they're buying.
  • How to structure your business around the value proposition

If you want to learn more about Mastering the Business of Art, you can start with your relationship with money here: https://morning-walk-with-the-artists-forge.captivate.fm

Learn more about how to think like an artist on The Artist's Forge, and join our growing community of artists on Facebook.

Want to know more about the hosts?

Nicole York

Matt Stagliano

Cat Ford-Coates

Bassam Sabbagh

Bekka Bjorke

Transcript
Matt Stagliano:

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

Matt Stagliano:

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

Matt Stagliano:

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

Matt Stagliano:

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

Matt Stagliano:

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

Matt Stagliano:

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

Matt Stagliano:

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

Matt Stagliano:

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

Matt Stagliano:

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

Matt Stagliano:

us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.

Nicole York:

All right. Good morning, y'all. Welcome to

Nicole York:

morning walk and talk about business with the artists Forge.

Nicole York:

I'm your host, Nicole York. And I'm super excited to have you

Nicole York:

with us today. As we break down how we get started building the

Nicole York:

structure of our business. We've already talked about the kind of

Nicole York:

psychological and emotional part of business structure, how we

Nicole York:

kind of come to terms with what we want from our business, what

Nicole York:

we want our business to do for us internally. And then we have

Nicole York:

to get to the practical part of that exercise where we start

Nicole York:

building the actual business. What products are we going to

Nicole York:

make? How are we going to add value to the market? How are we

Nicole York:

going to compete? Who are our customers going to be? What are

Nicole York:

we going to sell them? How are we going to sell it? Where are

Nicole York:

we going to sell it? What is the sales process look like? Are we

Nicole York:

looking at a boutique model? Are we looking at a volume model,

Nicole York:

there's just a lot to think about there. And all of these

Nicole York:

things are going to be influenced by the discussions

Nicole York:

that we've had over the last week over understanding what our

Nicole York:

philosophy of businesses over understanding what we want our

Nicole York:

business to do for us coming to terms with our relationship with

Nicole York:

money, all those things are going to influence the decisions

Nicole York:

that we make today. So we're gonna try to start at the very

Nicole York:

beginning, and I have a feeling this conversation, probably

Nicole York:

going to take us a couple days. Because as we build this

Nicole York:

structure, which is pretty complicated, other things are

Nicole York:

gonna pop up. And I want to make sure we also have time to get

Nicole York:

through the customer journey. Because the structure of your

Nicole York:

business is going to facilitate that journey. And we need to

Nicole York:

know what that's like. Because a big part of the value that we're

Nicole York:

actually offering the customer is the UI, right? The user

Nicole York:

experience, what is it like for them? To find us to go through

Nicole York:

the process of working with us to get their product? How are

Nicole York:

they meant to feel when they have it? And how do we deal with

Nicole York:

it when they have problems? So beginning at the very beginning,

Nicole York:

I think the first thing we have to ask ourselves is what kind of

Nicole York:

business are we going to run. And to know that we need to know

Nicole York:

how we're going to add value to the marketplace. And so that

Nicole York:

could be anything from I'm going to take portraits that provide

Nicole York:

legacy, right? I'm going to build bridges for people back to

Nicole York:

Fairyland, I'm going to help people realize their vision, and

Nicole York:

make their ideas come to life. The reason I'm couching it in

Nicole York:

these terms is because if you just say I'm going to take

Nicole York:

portraits, well, you're not really adding anything to the

Nicole York:

equation. There are 100,000 photographers out there taking

Nicole York:

portraits. What are you bringing, that somebody else

Nicole York:

might not be bringing that's connected to that philosophy of

Nicole York:

business and that deep lie that makes you pick up your camera?

Nicole York:

So that is the question that we have to start with. And I want

Nicole York:

to pick on my co hosts here. How do we answer that one? What are

Nicole York:

we adding to the marketplace? What's the reason for the

Nicole York:

existence of our business? How is that bringing value? Because

Nicole York:

as we make the rest of these decisions, they are going to

Nicole York:

have to prop up that value statement and support that value

Nicole York:

statement. And then when we go back and start writing our

Nicole York:

business plan, this is really going to be the heart if anybody

Nicole York:

starts having a hard time hearing from me, let me know

Nicole York:

it's a little bit stormy. I'm staying close to the house in

Nicole York:

case a crazy rains happened, but I don't know if the wind is

Nicole York:

gonna affect your ability to hear me. So let me know if that

Nicole York:

happens. But that is the question. Because it's going to

Nicole York:

become our vision statement when we write our business plan and

Nicole York:

it's going to influence the rest of the decisions that we make.

Nicole York:

So how do we come up with this y'all like, we will know the

Nicole York:

bare bones of it. I know I want to take photographs. But what

Nicole York:

kind of why right so if you guys have one or you know what it is

Nicole York:

that you're adding to the marketplace, I want to hear from

Nicole York:

you.

Matt Stagliano:

When I started my first business, I'm a big fan

Matt Stagliano:

of filling a niche and finding the gap and figuring out how I

Matt Stagliano:

can fill it, right? Because therein lies a lot of

Matt Stagliano:

opportunity. So when I started my first business, it was

Matt Stagliano:

because I was doing a lot of training on the range and had my

Matt Stagliano:

camera with me. And I found a gap that there were no photos of

Matt Stagliano:

people having fun training in the firearms world. So I created

Matt Stagliano:

that niche and developed a business out of it. For stone

Matt Stagliano:

tree, I realized that here in western Maine, there were no

Matt Stagliano:

full service, high end boutique, photo studios, doing

Matt Stagliano:

contemporary portraiture. And I said, If not me, then who? So I

Matt Stagliano:

dove into it and built the studio. So it's for me all about

Matt Stagliano:

finding that niche understanding, is that something

Matt Stagliano:

that I'm interested in something can I fill, and then going for

Matt Stagliano:

it. And that's how my two businesses started there.

Nicole York:

Okay, beautiful. So for you, that process was very

Nicole York:

practical, right, like being able to look at what was offered

Nicole York:

in your area, and then asking yourself how you fit into the

Nicole York:

equation or where you could fit into the equation?

Matt Stagliano:

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know,

Matt Stagliano:

there's so much competition in photography. And because I was

Matt Stagliano:

so late in life starting, and, you know, is up against people

Matt Stagliano:

that have been established in this state for decades? I said,

Matt Stagliano:

How can I do something a little bit different, so that I can

Matt Stagliano:

stand out a little bit more or catch the attention of people

Matt Stagliano:

that were looking for something different, but couldn't find it

Matt Stagliano:

locally?

Nicole York:

Perfect. And then once you recognize that, and you

Nicole York:

started kind of building your business to fill that niche? Did

Nicole York:

you think at all? I mean, obviously, you had your value

Nicole York:

proposition in the fact that there was nobody else doing it.

Nicole York:

But did you think it all about just because there's nobody else

Nicole York:

doing it doesn't necessarily mean somebody wants it? So why

Nicole York:

should somebody want this particular thing?

Matt Stagliano:

Oh, yeah, no, the self doubt, the panic, all

Matt Stagliano:

of that, oh, that's every day. But it's really been, you know,

Matt Stagliano:

because I believe in the product so much. And I believe in what

Matt Stagliano:

I'm doing so much. All I did was continue to talk it up with

Matt Stagliano:

passion. And you know, that energy can be infectious. So

Matt Stagliano:

when you're at networking events, or you're just sitting

Matt Stagliano:

next to someone at a bar, and you're talking about what you

Matt Stagliano:

do, all of that plays into educating potential clients

Matt Stagliano:

creating possible opportunities. So as I built it, I just

Matt Stagliano:

continue to talk about it and give people the understanding of

Matt Stagliano:

why what I do matters, versus another photographer. And it

Matt Stagliano:

wasn't through like, downplaying them, just trying to create more

Matt Stagliano:

value in my own products, and how I approached photography.

Matt Stagliano:

Standard was just,

Nicole York:

yeah. So that's what I want to ask you now. So

Nicole York:

why does what you do matter? Like, why is the client going to

Nicole York:

come to you? What is the actual value? So we know that you're

Nicole York:

filling this niche, but what is the value you're giving your

Nicole York:

clients?

Matt Stagliano:

I think, you know, it might sound trite

Matt Stagliano:

nowadays, but I give people the space to be themselves safely,

Matt Stagliano:

and to be heard and be listened to. So people come to me I'm

Matt Stagliano:

finding more often than not for my connection. And for the

Matt Stagliano:

simple style that I produce. I don't do a lot of glamour, I

Matt Stagliano:

don't do a lot of high end composite, I do very real, very

Matt Stagliano:

connected types of portraits. So that's what I'm finding people

Matt Stagliano:

come to me for, because they see parts of themselves that have

Matt Stagliano:

not been exposed before. They want to get into that deeper

Matt Stagliano:

things. So as I talked about connection, and as I talked

Matt Stagliano:

about what I can, you know, do with my clients, and how I'm

Matt Stagliano:

able to uncover those sides of them, it creates instant bond,

Matt Stagliano:

and, you know, basically sells itself, I don't push products, I

Matt Stagliano:

don't push any of that I push the emotion and the feeling that

Matt Stagliano:

they're going to get when they go through the process.

Nicole York:

Oh, I love that. And so understanding that that

Nicole York:

is really the value that you're adding to the marketplace, and

Nicole York:

what people can get from you. Do you have a couple examples you

Nicole York:

might be able to share of how the structure of your business

Nicole York:

supports that value?

Matt Stagliano:

Sure, I think so. So for the past couple of

Matt Stagliano:

years, you know, I very much followed the subarrays model.

Matt Stagliano:

And if you don't know what that is, it's the in person sales

Matt Stagliano:

model where we have a consultation, a photo shoot, and

Matt Stagliano:

then a photo reveal an ordering session. For me. I was very much

Matt Stagliano:

following that template word for word, same pricing, same

Matt Stagliano:

products, same everything because someone else had done

Matt Stagliano:

That model really, really well had perfected it. And I said,

Matt Stagliano:

Well, if they can do it, I can do it. So I very much followed

Matt Stagliano:

the Sue Brice model. Over the three and a half years that I've

Matt Stagliano:

been doing this, I've modified it to fit me based on what the

Matt Stagliano:

needs of my clients keep popping up as in terms of how many

Matt Stagliano:

images they want, do they want prints or wall art? Do they want

Matt Stagliano:

albums? Do they want Digital's all of those things are

Matt Stagliano:

constantly being refined so that I can be giving my clients what

Matt Stagliano:

I'm seeing that they want. It's not necessarily what I want to

Matt Stagliano:

push on them. But what is being asked of me over and over,

Matt Stagliano:

because in law enforcement, they call that a clue. And I want to

Matt Stagliano:

be able to use those things, and fine tune my business so that I

Matt Stagliano:

can serve my clients better.

Nicole York:

Right. Okay. Love that. And does that

Matt Stagliano:

answer the structure question?

Nicole York:

You're obviously like, we've talked about our

Nicole York:

businesses as a living thing. And you're obviously tweaking

Nicole York:

and altering the structure, as you find what's going to better

Nicole York:

fit your customers, which is what all of us need to be doing.

Nicole York:

What I'm really curious about is, so let's say, if my kind of

Nicole York:

vision statement for my business, if my value added, if

Nicole York:

what I'm offering to the market is building bridges back to

Nicole York:

Fairyland, giving somebody an experience, where they can

Nicole York:

believe in the parts of themselves, that they don't see

Nicole York:

very often, right? Their courage or their, their bravery, their

Nicole York:

strength, etc, and doing it through these fantastical

Nicole York:

portraits where people are in costume and all that kind of

Nicole York:

stuff. I'm making this up guys, I do this, but I don't do it as

Nicole York:

a retail photographer. I do it all by myself. Because it's my

Nicole York:

ideas anyway. If that's what I'm offering, folks, then how am I

Nicole York:

structuring the business, the customer experience, the type of

Nicole York:

marketing, I do all that kind of stuff to support that value

Nicole York:

statement. So I might, in my, in my consultation, we might be

Nicole York:

doing that consultation in my studio, where all my costumes

Nicole York:

are, and talking about exploring who this person is, and how

Nicole York:

potentially these different costumes relate to aspects of

Nicole York:

themselves, they feel like they don't get to see very much. And

Nicole York:

that may be a really important structural part of my business,

Nicole York:

like, we must have this consultation. And it must be

Nicole York:

done in this way. Because if I don't get to do this with you,

Nicole York:

the whole purpose of the business falls apart. Like we

Nicole York:

cannot explore these parts of you that we want to celebrate

Nicole York:

and expose. And and for you to be able to explore and have a

Nicole York:

visual representation of. And so structurally, that might be an

Nicole York:

incredibly important part of my business. And I am guessing that

Nicole York:

structurally, you have something in your business that is

Nicole York:

supporting this idea of connection and people being able

Nicole York:

to explore who they are in a safe place.

Matt Stagliano:

Yeah, I think so I think you know, you nailed it

Matt Stagliano:

there with the consultation, I had to structure it. So if I am

Matt Stagliano:

going to sell connection, I've got to be able to provide an

Matt Stagliano:

environment where I can connect with the potential clients,

Matt Stagliano:

right. And so for me, I knew I needed to have face to face

Matt Stagliano:

meetings, as much as possible, I am not a let's just jump on the

Matt Stagliano:

phone and you can't read body language and you can't see my

Matt Stagliano:

expression. And you're probably be multitasking, I don't want

Matt Stagliano:

any of that I want you paying attention. I want you engaged

Matt Stagliano:

and listening to whatever I have to say. And I say that only

Matt Stagliano:

because it's in that message that the experience develops. So

Matt Stagliano:

for me having that consultation, having that, that one on one

Matt Stagliano:

connection with someone sets the stage for anything that else,

Matt Stagliano:

anything else that comes after that, if we don't have that

Matt Stagliano:

connection from the beginning, if it's not a good fit, then

Matt Stagliano:

it's easy to weed that out and not get into a point where I'm

Matt Stagliano:

spending money that I don't need to spend or you know giving a

Matt Stagliano:

product that gives them less than good feelings. It's all

Matt Stagliano:

about for me, understanding is what I do what you want. And we

Matt Stagliano:

have to do that through some solid conversations first.

Nicole York:

Absolutely. And then I know that you mentioned

Nicole York:

before, that you're moving towards being able to offer

Nicole York:

offer digital or digital only because you've seen that for

Nicole York:

your clients that is an area and unmet area that they have. And

Nicole York:

so you are supporting this idea of bringing connection and

Nicole York:

understanding just by making sure that you really like these

Nicole York:

aren't numbers that just come through your studio and you're

Nicole York:

pushing a set of products out them because this is what you've

Nicole York:

decided you want to sell. You are actually doing that as a

Nicole York:

continued way of being able to show that you understand what

Nicole York:

they need.

Matt Stagliano:

Yeah, I I phrase things that I'm selling the

Matt Stagliano:

image, right how they want to receive that image, whether it's

Matt Stagliano:

digital or print or both is up to them. But they're paying for

Matt Stagliano:

the image, they're paying for the experience, they're paying

Matt Stagliano:

for everything that happens here in the studio. And then, you

Matt Stagliano:

know, whether they choose digital or print doesn't matter

Matt Stagliano:

to me. And that's, that's the bridge that I just recently

Matt Stagliano:

crossed. And I want to make sure that the people that are coming

Matt Stagliano:

to me for a certain thing, get what they want, I can try to

Matt Stagliano:

provide additional value through other products. But if they

Matt Stagliano:

don't want it, I'm not going to sit there and make their

Matt Stagliano:

experience a poor one, because I was trying to be pushy for

Matt Stagliano:

another 100 bucks or 300 bucks, or whatever it is. So what I

Matt Stagliano:

tried to do is look at the people that are coming to me

Matt Stagliano:

understand their needs, and deliver on that. Rather than

Matt Stagliano:

saying these are my wants, you're going to take it. So

Matt Stagliano:

really is you know, and I found that it differs by demographic

Matt Stagliano:

as well. Folks that tend to be a little bit older, tend to value

Matt Stagliano:

the prints more because they've been connected to them earlier

Matt Stagliano:

in their lives. People that are younger, tend to just live in a

Matt Stagliano:

digital world and only want the Digital's

Nicole York:

right. And so I'm glad that we got to kind of take

Nicole York:

a dive into like the rationale and what you're actually doing,

Nicole York:

because I think it does a really good job of illustrating the

Nicole York:

fact that you understand not only like the the actual value

Nicole York:

you're bringing to the market. And the reason I'm mentioning

Nicole York:

that is because we've talked about the fact that money isn't

Nicole York:

actually money, right? Money is something else, money is

Nicole York:

freedom, it is the ability to chase your dreams, it is

Nicole York:

security, it is prestige, it is all of these other things like

Nicole York:

we have a lot of things that are connected to an idea. And when

Nicole York:

it comes to the business, the value is not that somebody gets

Nicole York:

to walk away with paper and ink, it's that they get something

Nicole York:

that is related to the image that's taken, whether that is

Nicole York:

believing that they're beautiful, or understanding that

Nicole York:

they now have a piece of legacy, proof that they existed that

Nicole York:

they get to hand down to their children. Or that is I got to

Nicole York:

connect with myself in a way that's very incredibly like

Nicole York:

healing, right. And so once we understand what actual value

Nicole York:

we're offering, not that people can get the best albums in the

Nicole York:

world, but that they now have a narrative record of their life.

Nicole York:

That becomes the kind of underpinning that we get to use.

Nicole York:

And it's really clear, I think, to see that you have understood

Nicole York:

that not only from the perspective of Well, where's the

Nicole York:

niche that I need to fill? But now as I'm building my business,

Nicole York:

what ways can I support this idea of here's a chance for

Nicole York:

connection, not just connection for me to you and a safe place,

Nicole York:

but connection for you to yourself, and proving that

Nicole York:

reinforcing that by making those decisions, especially as you see

Nicole York:

the need to be made, like when you recognize, okay, I have some

Nicole York:

clients that just are not going to be best served by prints. And

Nicole York:

if they're going to believe the fact that I am here, to serve

Nicole York:

them and connect with them and understand them, then I better

Nicole York:

understand what it is that they actually want. That becomes a

Nicole York:

really fantastic structural underpinning to this whole value

Nicole York:

statement. So I'm really glad that we got to start there. And

Nicole York:

now I'm going to pick on cat, Rebecca, whichever of you is

Nicole York:

prepared. Did you have a time when you come about figuring out

Nicole York:

what the value is that you brought to the marketplace?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Every day?

Unknown:

Yes. And so thank you.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Like that doesn't change. Like I find some

Cat Ford-Coates:

new way of appreciating what it is that I bring to the clients,

Cat Ford-Coates:

whether it's new or not, right? When I get to work with them,

Cat Ford-Coates:

and understanding that some of them have a different

Cat Ford-Coates:

perspective, like maybe they they resonated with, actually.

Cat Ford-Coates:

So I have one client, right and I have photographed her now

Cat Ford-Coates:

three times this year. She originally came to me as a woman

Cat Ford-Coates:

up nominee last year. And I photographed her in January. But

Cat Ford-Coates:

when she came in, she had pored through my website and she was

Cat Ford-Coates:

like, oh my god, this is perfect timing. I really love how you

Cat Ford-Coates:

empower other women, and you know all of the things right?

Cat Ford-Coates:

But then she experienced that photoshoot and the value that

Cat Ford-Coates:

she got from that was it's not just about empowering women in

Cat Ford-Coates:

business. It's about documenting your life and your love for one

Cat Ford-Coates:

another in your relationships. I've got to bring my daughter's

Cat Ford-Coates:

here. And then she brought her daughters in and they got to

Cat Ford-Coates:

experience this this wonderful day together and create this

Cat Ford-Coates:

moment memory for their family. Even outside of the imagery that

Cat Ford-Coates:

was created, they had a really fun day together, it was all the

Cat Ford-Coates:

girls, with mom like no other day like it. And then she called

Cat Ford-Coates:

me up and was like, I've got to do this 40 over 40 project, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, when I was 21, like, I was gorgeous, and not what I didn't

Cat Ford-Coates:

realize it. And I wish that somebody in their 40s or beyond

Cat Ford-Coates:

had been there to tell me like how great aging actually is, and

Cat Ford-Coates:

could impart that wisdom to me at a younger age, so that I

Cat Ford-Coates:

could believe it about myself sooner, like the value that you

Cat Ford-Coates:

weave into what it is that you do, however it is that you do

Cat Ford-Coates:

it, whether it's through product, whether it's through

Cat Ford-Coates:

experience, whether it's through even your marketing copy.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Everything you touch has value, because you are the heart and

Cat Ford-Coates:

soul of your business. And when you treat everything from your

Cat Ford-Coates:

systems and your processes, to your client experience to even

Cat Ford-Coates:

how you communicate with them. All you do is add value. So when

Cat Ford-Coates:

you just throw up a post, and you're like, ain't she pretty?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Like, okay, that's kind of the easy way out, right? Like, why

Cat Ford-Coates:

not talk to me about why she is everything that she is, and how

Cat Ford-Coates:

much impact she has on the world. And oh, my God, this is

Cat Ford-Coates:

her. Right, because then you're bringing value to your clients,

Cat Ford-Coates:

instead of just only documentation being the only

Cat Ford-Coates:

purpose as a

Nicole York:

woof cat showing up and dropping the mic yet again,

Nicole York:

I think that was such a beautiful example of all of

Nicole York:

these systemic ways that we have to continue reinforcing this

Nicole York:

idea of the value that we bring to the market. And it's so

Nicole York:

important that you were able to illustrate that the way that you

Nicole York:

did, because I think it helps, it will help people understand

Nicole York:

the fact that this value really is structural. That's why we're

Nicole York:

starting to talk about structuring our business.

Nicole York:

Because if I know that my goal with this business, I have a

Nicole York:

goal for me, right, I need to earn a living. And I need to

Nicole York:

fulfill this side of me that needs to be creative and needs

Nicole York:

to be independent. So my business needs to do these three

Nicole York:

things for me. But my business also needs to bring value to

Nicole York:

people. And it matters to me to help people tell stories. And so

Nicole York:

the goal of my business is to help someone tell their story.

Nicole York:

And all of a sudden, now as I'm choosing what to include in my

Nicole York:

business structure, and where it's going to be, et cetera,

Nicole York:

what I'm offering, I want all of those structural underpinnings

Nicole York:

to support this ultimate idea that if somebody works with me,

Nicole York:

they're going to have their story told. And, of course,

Nicole York:

they're going to get other things, right. Like, they're

Nicole York:

also going to have additional things that happen, because each

Nicole York:

of them is going to be unique. But as I build, of course, I

Nicole York:

can't build for every individual out there, I wouldn't have any

Nicole York:

idea how to do that. There's too many people too many unique

Nicole York:

souls. But I can build everything toward this value

Nicole York:

statement and recognize that everything else I touch is also

Nicole York:

going to be an added value to their lives. So I think that was

Nicole York:

a really beautiful way to sum all of that up cat. And I know

Nicole York:

we've talked before, that a big part of this for you, this

Nicole York:

business was the legacy factor, right with your past experience,

Nicole York:

and then recognizing that all of this proof of your existence was

Nicole York:

gone. When you realize that that is really an important part for

Nicole York:

you of the existence of the business. Did you look at that

Nicole York:

from a structural perspective? Or is that just something that

Cat Ford-Coates:

lost you a little bit but I think you were

Cat Ford-Coates:

asking how I I guess weaved in the legacy aspect in a tangible

Cat Ford-Coates:

way. Is that right?

Nicole York:

Yes. Essentially, yeah. Like how does the

Nicole York:

structure of the business support the fact that people

Nicole York:

will be getting a legacy from

Cat Ford-Coates:

so I like Matt, right. Follow the the in person

Cat Ford-Coates:

sales model from from Super eyes. And when I dialed in, on

Cat Ford-Coates:

realizing that the the work that I was creating, it didn't matter

Cat Ford-Coates:

the the medium in which it was printed on, right that the

Cat Ford-Coates:

artwork itself, the legacy that we're creating is in the image.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And then I said okay, looking at that from a digital versus

Cat Ford-Coates:

product perspective, I realized that a digital file is a

Cat Ford-Coates:

product. It also helps that North Carolina I've used it that

Cat Ford-Coates:

way too. And in that space, yes, I can change the size of the the

Cat Ford-Coates:

print, right? And that will affect the price. But the

Cat Ford-Coates:

baseline the baseline argument really is the legacy that I'm

Cat Ford-Coates:

creating with you can be digital and or printed, you have your

Cat Ford-Coates:

choice with me. If you just want digital, that's fine. But it's

Cat Ford-Coates:

not going to change the price. And because it's a business, I

Cat Ford-Coates:

have to look at price as a factor and not just go, Oh,

Cat Ford-Coates:

we're just talking about money, it's fine, have everything.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Right, because a business requires money. So I have to put

Cat Ford-Coates:

a price tag on the fact that even in a digital format, that

Cat Ford-Coates:

legacy is still being created. Because those Digital's are

Cat Ford-Coates:

going to be passed down just the same way the physical products

Cat Ford-Coates:

are, there might be a little tougher to find if mom's not

Cat Ford-Coates:

real organized. But it's the same thing. And then the added

Cat Ford-Coates:

value to that is that all of the products that I choose the

Cat Ford-Coates:

physical tangible products are archival, so that that legacy

Cat Ford-Coates:

component stays alive, that you're not just printing off at

Cat Ford-Coates:

Shutterfly to have an image that's going to fade out in

Cat Ford-Coates:

three years and fall off the wall, you're going to have a

Cat Ford-Coates:

product that is printed on 100 plus your paper and matted with

Cat Ford-Coates:

100 plus your mats. If you frame it with us, there's museum glass

Cat Ford-Coates:

involved, like everything is driven on the legacy, whether

Cat Ford-Coates:

it's digital or

Nicole York:

yes, okay, beautiful. And I love that you

Nicole York:

mentioned product as well, because of course, as we are

Nicole York:

building our business structure, we have to understand not only

Nicole York:

what value we're bringing to the market, which is kind of the

Nicole York:

core of this part of the conversation, but how we can

Nicole York:

continue to reinforce that value and the other structural

Nicole York:

decisions that we make for our business. And you are making the

Nicole York:

decision that if legacy is one of the really key aspects of

Nicole York:

what you're offering people, that all of these decisions,

Nicole York:

including the products that you choose to sell, support this

Nicole York:

value statement. And so people understand over and over again,

Nicole York:

that they're going to be getting legacy that this is something

Nicole York:

they can pass on, this is proof of their existence, that is

Nicole York:

going to go to the next generation. And even if you

Nicole York:

don't, let's say cat was not to outright state that. But as you

Nicole York:

did business with her, you noticed that every conversation,

Nicole York:

every product, etc, just kind of continued to quietly support

Nicole York:

this thesis, then you would almost get the understanding by

Nicole York:

osmosis in a way it's not like somebody standing in your

Nicole York:

No, shovel, it's, it's something you can't walk away without

Nicole York:

understanding because it's being reinforced to you over and over

Nicole York:

again, in all of these structural ways. So that people

Nicole York:

will not have a question of what the value is that they're

Nicole York:

getting from you when they work with you. And it's really

Nicole York:

difficult to argue the point of money when somebody is showing

Nicole York:

you value over and over and over again, in the process. And that

Nicole York:

is going to be included in everything from the way you

Nicole York:

structure your customer experience, to the products you

Nicole York:

choose to how you respond to issues that your customers bring

Nicole York:

up in customer service. So there's so much good stuff there

Nicole York:

that we can really sink our teeth into understanding that

Nicole York:

this value statement really becomes the underpinning of

Nicole York:

everything that we build. So Becca, it is now time to pick it

Nicole York:

you are you awake and cognizant? Have you had your magical bean

Nicole York:

juice?

Bekka Bjorke:

Yes, I have my magical bean juice. I've gotten

Bekka Bjorke:

out of the comfy bed. I'm here.

Nicole York:

Alright, so for you. And I know it's cool that

Nicole York:

we have so many different folks here because your business

Nicole York:

structure is really different from the portrait artists that

Nicole York:

we have. So how did you or did you discover what value it is

Nicole York:

you are bringing to the community with your business?

Nicole York:

And have you built any kind of structural underpinnings in a

Nicole York:

way that they support the value that your business is offering?

Bekka Bjorke:

I think so, I think I've done some of the

Bekka Bjorke:

things. So I've definitely moved into this mindset that I do not

Bekka Bjorke:

really deal in art. I mean, obviously I do, because I'm an

Bekka Bjorke:

artist, but I'm, I deal in ideas. And so instead of

Bekka Bjorke:

thinking of what I am giving to my clients, as you know, I'm

Bekka Bjorke:

providing them with art, I'm providing them with access to

Bekka Bjorke:

steer the workplace, that is my brain, and to then can't use the

Bekka Bjorke:

word vessel the other day. And I love that to be that vessel for

Bekka Bjorke:

those ideas, and this definitely has been a process, but if I'm

Bekka Bjorke:

being really introspective about it, I mean, what value have I

Bekka Bjorke:

given to people for basically my entire life, it's been access to

Bekka Bjorke:

the way I think, to my interest in learning to my interest in

Bekka Bjorke:

other people, like, even when I was little baby nerd in school,

Bekka Bjorke:

like, why did you know kids want to be in my group together in a

Bekka Bjorke:

group project, because they wanted access to my ideas? You

Bekka Bjorke:

know, and then that developed in my own artistic interests. You

Bekka Bjorke:

know, why was I when I was first interested in photography, I was

Bekka Bjorke:

interested in photojournalism because I was interested in

Bekka Bjorke:

people, I was interested in learning about other cultures

Bekka Bjorke:

and about what people were thinking when I went into

Bekka Bjorke:

portraiture, again, interesting people, and, you know, getting

Bekka Bjorke:

to know them and getting to translate them in a visual way.

Bekka Bjorke:

And even more recent history, like so when I left California,

Bekka Bjorke:

and I moved to Washington, where I don't know anyone. But I

Bekka Bjorke:

really tried to hit the ground running, I was like, I'm gonna

Bekka Bjorke:

have this very creative portrait studio. And you know, I had

Bekka Bjorke:

clients, as soon as I moved, I was like, Really, just like, I'm

Bekka Bjorke:

gonna do this thing. And I created some really cool art.

Bekka Bjorke:

But it was also this awakening point for me that like, the

Bekka Bjorke:

amount of time that goes into, you know, classical photo

Bekka Bjorke:

sessions, you know, and finding the clients there, and having to

Bekka Bjorke:

deal with all the people who didn't really understand

Bekka Bjorke:

necessarily what I did outside of, oh, that's creative. I don't

Bekka Bjorke:

know, it just wasn't working for me. So I had to kind of take a

Bekka Bjorke:

step back and hit pause and be like, Okay, how do I really

Bekka Bjorke:

provide the best, most creative product for people? You know,

Bekka Bjorke:

how do I give them that access to my brain, and create things

Bekka Bjorke:

that they can't create themselves in the most unique

Bekka Bjorke:

way? And then that was this big change for me to think like,

Bekka Bjorke:

Okay, I need to create individualized products, and

Bekka Bjorke:

really focus on people's creative and artistic ideas in

Bekka Bjorke:

that way and create, you know, only to only work on commission,

Bekka Bjorke:

you know, not churn out large scale amounts of work. And then,

Bekka Bjorke:

that was the shift. If that makes sense. I'm gonna take

Bekka Bjorke:

another sip of coffee. Give me a moment.

Nicole York:

You're good, you're good? No, it's okay. I love

Nicole York:

that. First of all, I think it's a really fantastic realization

Nicole York:

to have of what you are actually giving people because I think at

Nicole York:

least it's been my experience that a lot of us when we first

Nicole York:

get into this business of art, that we tend to think the value

Nicole York:

we're giving people is the print, etc. And the reason I

Nicole York:

believe that is because if you look at people's websites,

Nicole York:

that's what they will tell you, you get a boy, back into the

Nicole York:

early days of my business, you get an online password protected

Nicole York:

Gallery, and you get seven prints and you get this album

Nicole York:

and you get this thing, and it's like, okay, so what I'm telling

Nicole York:

people is that the value I provide them is simply things.

Nicole York:

They can get things from 8 million photographers. And so

Nicole York:

they will say, Well, you're more expensive, so I can just get my

Nicole York:

thing elsewhere. Makes perfect sense, right? That's the value,

Nicole York:

I tell them that I'm giving them. But it changes. All of the

Nicole York:

sudden, when I say something like, I deal in ideas, and I

Nicole York:

become the tool that you use to bring your imagination to life.

Nicole York:

Like that is an entirely different value statement. Even

Nicole York:

though the product at the end of the road may actually be the

Nicole York:

same thing. Like they may still end up getting prints, or

Nicole York:

digital files or whatever. But they're not getting the same

Nicole York:

value. And you are differentiating what you give,

Nicole York:

which is obviously an incredibly important part of our business.

Nicole York:

What product are we offering and how are we getting into people.

Nicole York:

They might be getting a digital file. But that's not the value

Nicole York:

that they're getting. They're getting to drive your ship with

Nicole York:

all of its bells and whistles that they don't have. They're

Nicole York:

getting access to your skill set. They're getting access to

Nicole York:

your creativity. They're getting access to the unique way that

Nicole York:

you think in order to take what's inside of them, that they

Nicole York:

cannot bring to life for themselves. See that become a

Nicole York:

reality. So I think it's really fantastic to be able to

Nicole York:

understand, from a business perspective, this value

Nicole York:

proposition is not about, you get a one of a kind print that I

Nicole York:

signed, like, who cares, I can take a piece of paper and sign

Nicole York:

it, nobody else has that either. There's something more there

Nicole York:

that is being offered, when you get a piece of somebody's head,

Nicole York:

a piece of their creativity, something that nobody else will

Nicole York:

have, that all of a sudden becomes more valuable. So now

Nicole York:

that you know, and you've kind of come to that realization,

Nicole York:

Becca, what are some ways that you can structure the way that

Nicole York:

you work with people, this process of running your business

Nicole York:

to support that value statement?

Bekka Bjorke:

A lot of talking, usually more talking when you

Bekka Bjorke:

get out of me early in the morning. But, you know, it's, I,

Bekka Bjorke:

again, have this this very deep, lifelong love of learning. And

Bekka Bjorke:

that is really the basis for all the work that I create for other

Bekka Bjorke:

people, because I need to know about their ideas, and it needs

Bekka Bjorke:

to be a collaborative conversation with them. I mean,

Bekka Bjorke:

I there are situations, you know, or someone sends me a

Bekka Bjorke:

brief and then I just go off the brief, but that's usually people

Bekka Bjorke:

I've worked with before, where we don't need to have the long

Bekka Bjorke:

in depth, you know, repetitive even meetings to go over things

Bekka Bjorke:

over and over again. But, you know, it is a matter of really

Bekka Bjorke:

discussing with them to truly understand what their needs are,

Bekka Bjorke:

and to explore new ideas to really get to the meat of what

Bekka Bjorke:

it is that they want to create, and why they want to create it

Bekka Bjorke:

so I can best provide that for them, then, you know, it is

Bekka Bjorke:

more, you know, individual work when it is sitting at my

Bekka Bjorke:

computer and painting or you know, rendering or whatever it

Bekka Bjorke:

is that I'm doing. But all of the work with people, when it

Bekka Bjorke:

comes to building a structure, it has to do with communication,

Bekka Bjorke:

and really putting in the effort to do external research to

Bekka Bjorke:

provide ideas provide options, and you make sure that we are

Bekka Bjorke:

exploring every possibility to give them the best end product

Bekka Bjorke:

that they can't get anywhere else.

Nicole York:

Okay, so a big part of your structure, then, is the

Nicole York:

fact that it must be incredibly collaborative. Yes. So you have

Nicole York:

to build, right, so you got to build that in, right? Like that

Nicole York:

has to be, it can't just be what we talked once and now

Nicole York:

everything's good. It has to be collaborative, to the point

Nicole York:

where it literally affects.

Bekka Bjorke:

Yeah, definitely. So I don't do I mean, I do do

Bekka Bjorke:

kind of, I wouldn't call them consultations, but you know, I

Bekka Bjorke:

need to talk through things with people, I need to read their

Bekka Bjorke:

scripts, I need to read parts of their book, you know, I really

Bekka Bjorke:

need to get a good idea of what they have in mind, like, I need

Bekka Bjorke:

to hear it or see it in words, so that it then develops in my

Bekka Bjorke:

head, and I can see it with my eyes, if that makes sense. So

Bekka Bjorke:

everything has to start there, and then has to have a level of

Bekka Bjorke:

conversation to it. Because otherwise, it's just me on my

Bekka Bjorke:

own. And I've had plenty of ideas on my own, but then that

Bekka Bjorke:

isn't serving the client. So that collaborative communicative

Bekka Bjorke:

aspect is number one, and it needs to be consistent, you

Bekka Bjorke:

know, throughout the entire process. So having a lot of open

Bekka Bjorke:

communication is definitely like the ground floor of that

Bekka Bjorke:

structure

Carol Gonzales:

for me.

Nicole York:

Beautiful, okay. So we've had three really fantastic

Nicole York:

examples so far of the way that we can recognize what the value

Nicole York:

is that our business is bringing to our customers, and how

Nicole York:

structurally we can support that value by including specific

Nicole York:

types of things in our business, whether that is having the kind

Nicole York:

of consultation that Becca is having where this is a continued

Nicole York:

process, it's a really deep, there has to be a lot of

Nicole York:

understanding and research that go into that. And so that is

Nicole York:

part of the structure of the business, or whether that is

Nicole York:

choosing the type of products like CAD is choosing that have

Nicole York:

this support for the idea that somebody is getting legacy.

Nicole York:

They're not paying for paper and ink, although they are going to

Nicole York:

receive paper and ink they are paying for legacy and all the

Nicole York:

other value that gets provided along the way. And the products

Nicole York:

that she's choosing support this idea, because they are archival,

Nicole York:

and they are museum quality. And so she's just kind of quietly

Nicole York:

building the structure that supports the idea that people

Nicole York:

will be getting legacy from her. And for Matt providing this safe

Nicole York:

place for connection and exploration that somebody can

Nicole York:

come and be themselves. That is part of the business model. It's

Nicole York:

not just something people happen to get, because Matt's a great

Nicole York:

guy. It's something he is purposefully including in the

Nicole York:

way the business runs. And so when we talk about business

Nicole York:

structure, in order to build that structure, we have to have

Nicole York:

a really good idea of what the purpose of the structure is. A

Nicole York:

church is built as a place for people to come in and worship, a

Nicole York:

home is built as a place for people to live. And when we

Nicole York:

start building those structures, we have to understand the

Nicole York:

purpose of the structure. Otherwise, we're going to be

Nicole York:

including a bunch of stuff that doesn't need to be included,

Nicole York:

we're not going to be including things that do need to be

Nicole York:

included. So we have to understand that purpose first.

Nicole York:

So let's pretend we're going to keep pretending that I have a

Nicole York:

retail portrait photography business, where people get to

Nicole York:

dress up in the costumes, most of them that I have built by

Nicole York:

hand, and they get to explore this part of themselves that

Nicole York:

they don't feel like ever gets to be seen. And so maybe, let's

Nicole York:

say I decide to send them a welcome packet, because this is

Nicole York:

going to be a pretty unique experience. Maybe my welcome

Nicole York:

packet is designed to look like an an old antique magic book.

Nicole York:

And when people open it, it has these weathered pages, and

Nicole York:

everything is written in, you know, old spidery script, and it

Nicole York:

just looks like a piece of magic. And maybe that's also got

Nicole York:

a place for them to put some of their photos when they're done.

Nicole York:

So they have this magical book that they have, and they can put

Nicole York:

on their shelves. And it's a piece of art all by itself.

Nicole York:

Maybe I build that into the way my business is structured,

Nicole York:

because lots of people give welcome packets, everyone needs

Nicole York:

to know what the experience is going to be like, where they

Nicole York:

should go, how much they're going to spend all that kind of

Nicole York:

stuff. But I've made my pages removable, so that they have

Nicole York:

this piece of artwork that they can now put their photos and

Nicole York:

also, and it the whole process of that supports this idea that

Nicole York:

you get to enter into a magical world. When you work with me a

Nicole York:

world where it's safe and celebrated to be that weird,

Nicole York:

nerdy part of yourself that nobody else gets to enjoy. I can

Nicole York:

choose to structure things that way. And perhaps that becomes

Nicole York:

such an integral part of the structure of my business. That

Nicole York:

that is the thing that other people tell their friends. When

Nicole York:

I booked this session, you won't believe that I got this welcome

Nicole York:

packet. It looks like this magical arcane book. And it's

Nicole York:

bla bla bla bla, well, like, Oh, my God, you know. And it's not

Nicole York:

just that the book itself is cool. It's the fact that the

Nicole York:

book and the welcome packet, even though that's something

Nicole York:

other people do support, the overall value that my business

Nicole York:

is bringing to the world. And you can do that, in all of the

Nicole York:

different pieces of the structure of your business from

Nicole York:

who your client is, I'm obviously looking for people who

Nicole York:

believe that going through a fantasy experience will help

Nicole York:

them explore and expose parts of themselves, that they don't

Nicole York:

always get to believe in. And maybe that's their power, maybe

Nicole York:

that's, you know, they get to be a knight in shining armor, an

Nicole York:

actual armor because they believe that's the person they

Nicole York:

are to their friends, they're the ones who is always showing

Nicole York:

up and always supporting the people they love and just, you

Nicole York:

know, being there to save them from themselves or whatever it

Nicole York:

is. It's raining on me now. And so

Nicole York:

that entire experience, I'm obviously not going to include

Nicole York:

business casual things in my wardrobe, right? I'm going to

Nicole York:

include fantasy type things, I'm going to be looking for people

Nicole York:

who believe that that is going to be a valuable experience for

Nicole York:

them. So where am I going to choose to put my marketing? And

Nicole York:

what kind of copy am I going to choose based on the

Nicole York:

understanding that this is the value I bring in who is going to

Nicole York:

want that value? It maybe is not a senior high school football

Nicole York:

player. You know what I'm saying? Like, I have to

Nicole York:

understand where those folks are. And reaching out to them

Nicole York:

becomes part of the structure of the marketing side of my

Nicole York:

business. That's why this part of the conversation is so

Nicole York:

important. What value are we bringing, because it tells us

Nicole York:

the type of building we're building. And that tells us what

Nicole York:

needs to be included in the building plans. So now I want to

Nicole York:

reach out to the audience a little bit and hear from y'all.

Nicole York:

Have you considered what value you're bringing your your

Nicole York:

business? That's all right, it's cool. I talk about what value

Nicole York:

your business brings to your clients to the marketplace, and

Nicole York:

how that value is then reflected and supported in the structure

Nicole York:

of your business. If you have thoughts along those lines, now

Nicole York:

is the time to hand. I see we've got a copy for some reason. It

Nicole York:

just does not show up for me. There we go. All right. Kevin,

Nicole York:

you also. So let's start with gene. And then we'll hear from

Nicole York:

ARCA. And I see your hand up as well, Carol.

Gene Sizemore:

Good morning. I just real quick because I'm

Gene Sizemore:

literally on my way out the door to buy a computer. i Thanks,

Gene Sizemore:

Matt. I I keep going back and back to the fact that I think

Gene Sizemore:

photography is such a wonderful example of what you're talking

Gene Sizemore:

about and going all the way back to how this conversation started

Gene Sizemore:

this week about figuring out your why, you know, why are you

Gene Sizemore:

in business? What are you trying to do, who you trying to do it

Gene Sizemore:

for? I think that what I when it really started to click with me

Gene Sizemore:

was, was when I started doing headshots, I don't know why it

Gene Sizemore:

took headshots to kind of make the connection for me. But I

Gene Sizemore:

guess it was easier for me to make the the like learning a

Gene Sizemore:

foreign language, you know, in your head, once you learn how to

Gene Sizemore:

kind of speak backwards, then all of a sudden starts flowing.

Gene Sizemore:

So when I was when I was learning, when I was looking

Gene Sizemore:

into headshots it I started hanging around, more people that

Gene Sizemore:

were doing headshots. And I think that's when I finally

Gene Sizemore:

realized that I'm not my service is not, or my value is not a

Gene Sizemore:

picture. And I think that I think that's why I think

Gene Sizemore:

photography is such a great example. Because, you know,

Gene Sizemore:

listening to Cat describe this experience and how that kind of

Gene Sizemore:

mushroomed into, you know, more experiences, and I gotta get

Gene Sizemore:

other people in for this. I mean, I think that really speaks

Gene Sizemore:

to how important it is for photographers, and therefore all

Gene Sizemore:

types of businesses to really figure out what that value is,

Gene Sizemore:

and, and be open minded enough to understand that it's probably

Gene Sizemore:

not what's right in front of their face, there's probably

Gene Sizemore:

something else that you're getting, that your clients are

Gene Sizemore:

getting out of what you're doing. And that's what you want

Gene Sizemore:

to market. That's what you want to build your business around.

Gene Sizemore:

And that really takes getting to know your clients talking to

Gene Sizemore:

them, understanding what it is that they enjoyed about the

Gene Sizemore:

experience and making sure that you're capitalizing on those

Gene Sizemore:

experiences, so that you can build that into the value that

Gene Sizemore:

you bring future clients, and not just focus on. Okay, I want

Gene Sizemore:

to, you know, I want him to walk out the door with a good

Gene Sizemore:

picture. As I just keep coming back to that, I think, I think

Gene Sizemore:

it makes so much sense when you look at it through the not to be

Gene Sizemore:

corny, but through the lens of photography.

Bekka Bjorke:

I think for photographers, specifically,

Cat Ford-Coates:

regardless of the type of photographer that

Cat Ford-Coates:

you are, it's important to understand that the impact you

Cat Ford-Coates:

have is primarily in the experience that you offer. So

Cat Ford-Coates:

for like Becca, that impact is in the collaboration, right and

Cat Ford-Coates:

being able to bring a vision to life. For Matt, the impact is in

Cat Ford-Coates:

that connection, whether it's with Matt with other people in

Cat Ford-Coates:

the room or with themselves, you know, like all of these things,

Cat Ford-Coates:

and then the byproduct simply is added value. And that byproduct

Cat Ford-Coates:

is the imagery itself. And that the impact that that byproduct

Cat Ford-Coates:

has. So it becomes a ripple effect. And when you understand

Cat Ford-Coates:

that, that's really when things start to take shape.

Gene Sizemore:

I think I think first you know, for me, it none

Gene Sizemore:

of that made sense until I started doing headshots, but

Gene Sizemore:

then I was able to see how in other aspects of photography,

Gene Sizemore:

the same thing applied, I have all my fine art stuff on display

Gene Sizemore:

at a store down in Georgetown. And the only print that I've

Gene Sizemore:

sold, went to somebody in the area. And I reached out to them

Gene Sizemore:

to figure out why, you know, to thank them and what interested

Gene Sizemore:

them in the photos. It was a picture of the interior of Union

Gene Sizemore:

Station. And what I found out was that they got married in

Gene Sizemore:

Union Station. And so they love the picture and they wanted to

Gene Sizemore:

have a picture of it. And that's when you know, I figured out I

Gene Sizemore:

mean, jeez, you know, I mean, I'm taking pictures of all these

Gene Sizemore:

mountains and sculptures and in you know, monuments and can't

Gene Sizemore:

figure out why people are buying them. Well, you know, people

Gene Sizemore:

aren't buying pictures of mountains, people are buying

Gene Sizemore:

memories, they're buying something that connects them to

Gene Sizemore:

that place. And that's what that's why they buy a landscape

Gene Sizemore:

image mostly. And so, you know, I think once you've once you

Gene Sizemore:

open your mind up to the bigger story, the bigger picture of why

Gene Sizemore:

somebody you know is is is is seeking your services as a

Gene Sizemore:

photographer regardless or illustrator or you know,

Gene Sizemore:

whatever your your creative space is. I think that really

Gene Sizemore:

opens a lot of doors.

Nicole York:

Agreed. Well said, Arca What about you? Good

Nicole York:

morning and welcome. Can't wait to hear

Unknown:

Good morning. Um, you know, I, I kind of have a

Unknown:

similar experience to Jean to be honest. Um, I think what what

Unknown:

the difference was, it made it easier for me. Um be headshots

Unknown:

tend to have this reputation of being quick, dirty, cheap,

Unknown:

right. But that's not the kind of photographer him at all. And

Unknown:

so I include the hair and makeup, and all of that with my

Unknown:

my packages for headshots even. And I send my men to the barber

Unknown:

for professional services that day. So they feel like a million

Unknown:

bucks, so their camera ready. And so my service alone set me

Unknown:

apart from other photographers, and especially even other

Unknown:

headshot photographers, nobody was doing that nobody was making

Unknown:

that extra service available. Because let's face it, no one

Unknown:

likes to be in front of the camera. And these are, you know,

Unknown:

ordinary people that have had maybe a boss or an outside

Unknown:

source and validate getting photos and spending money for

Unknown:

photos. Because they're in a professional culture, where

Unknown:

that's accepted. And that's normal to pay a premium

Unknown:

depending on, you know, what their company or organization

Unknown:

has taught them is appropriate. And so it made it just a little

Unknown:

bit easier to access those professionals who were willing

Unknown:

to invest in photography. And I didn't have to argue so much

Unknown:

about not argue, but you know, educate so much about what the

Unknown:

value was. And it was just an easier in. But then, you know

Unknown:

that a lot of joy in my heart goes into more portraiture and

Unknown:

finer. And, you know, now it's trying to find that seeing group

Unknown:

of people that don't have that necessarily. That easy in. So

Unknown:

the best thing for me was to convert those headshot and

Unknown:

branding, you know, clients into my portraiture work. So I get

Unknown:

I'm on Mondays, this is like, I'm in Mountain Center punk,

Unknown:

too. So this is what I'm getting kids ready for school?

Gene Sizemore:

This is a kid. Yes, it

Nicole York:

is. Yeah, that's fantastic, are 10. So I think

Nicole York:

what I would ask from you, is when you, you know, obviously

Nicole York:

folks are getting this this physical added value, right?

Nicole York:

They're getting their hair and makeup done. They're feeling

Nicole York:

pretty fantastic. How does that support the value that you're

Nicole York:

giving them? So when you add that in? What is it actually

Nicole York:

doing for them? Because of course they have the physical

Nicole York:

thing that's happening, their hair is getting done, they feel

Nicole York:

they you know, they look fantastic, but what is it that

Nicole York:

they're emotionally psychologically, etc, getting

Nicole York:

from you that supports the fact that your business

Unknown:

I would say it starts in the process leading up to

Unknown:

that because I do a consultation ahead of time. So I'm, I tell

Unknown:

people don't be cookie cutter when you can be custom. And I

Unknown:

want to know how to represent every single professional and

Unknown:

organization according to whoever you know, their passion

Unknown:

is or their what image they want to put out things. And then, so

Unknown:

I'm sitting with them and taking my time to ask them questions,

Unknown:

listen, and customize how we're going to shoot, what location

Unknown:

what lighting setups, we're going to use which wardrobe,

Unknown:

we're going to pick, we pick out the hair and makeup prior to the

Unknown:

appointment so that they don't just show up and hope that the

Unknown:

artist gets it right. So I do spend a way, way more time, you

Unknown:

know, just like letting them know I'm I'm there for them. I

Unknown:

think that probably works.

Nicole York:

Don't be cookie cutter when you can be custom.

Nicole York:

That's really fantastic. That is absolutely a value statement and

Nicole York:

the decisions that you're making there to to offer the service to

Nicole York:

your clients. Sorry, my husband thought slamming the door would

Nicole York:

be the best way to close it this morning. Absolutely shows to

Nicole York:

your client and reinforces this idea that this is a custom

Nicole York:

experience built uniquely for you. You are going to be served

Nicole York:

as if you are the queen of everything right? specifically

Nicole York:

to how you want everything to be like that is absolutely a value

Nicole York:

statement. That structure of building in those hair and

Nicole York:

makeup going to see the barber getting spoiled. All of that

Nicole York:

stuff really supports that. So I mean, it sounds to me like you

Nicole York:

really are on the right path. And that is a tagline is a super

Nicole York:

strong tagline. Like who doesn't want that? Who wants to you

Nicole York:

know, go get like a burger from McDonald's when somebody could

Nicole York:

build something specifically to my tastes like that. It'd be

Nicole York:

hard to say no to that.

Cat Ford-Coates:

I was just agreeing that tagline is boss

Cat Ford-Coates:

right? I wish I wasn't

Unknown:

afraid to use it at first because I thought I would

Unknown:

offend other photographer, then I'm like, they're not my client.

Unknown:

So it's not a big deal.

Nicole York:

For real, and also, the only offense that I have is

Nicole York:

that I didn't think of it. So I'm glad that you have it, it's

Nicole York:

a good one. Oh, I just broke my hair tie. Alright, Carol would

Nicole York:

love to hear from you what your thoughts are around

Nicole York:

understanding the value that our business is bringing to the

Nicole York:

market and how we can structure our businesses to support that

Nicole York:

value that we're adding.

Carol Gonzales:

Okay, I don't know if I'll just, I'll just

Carol Gonzales:

rattle off what I wrote down in response, okay. The

Carol Gonzales:

experimentation of my art is what is the value including my

Carol Gonzales:

putting together disparate items that you know, you may not think

Carol Gonzales:

of as, as put together to create something aesthetically

Carol Gonzales:

pleasing, the one of a kind nature of my art, unique, not

Carol Gonzales:

influenced by others, because my biggest competition in what I've

Carol Gonzales:

done is me make something out of anything, sharing my

Carol Gonzales:

explorations and processes, and a piece of my passion and years

Carol Gonzales:

of developing that passion. I don't know if, you know, you

Carol Gonzales:

can, you can surmise, you know, something out of

Nicole York:

No, you know what, Carol, I'm actually really super

Nicole York:

glad you wrote that stuff down and shared it because I think

Nicole York:

what we have here is a fantastic example of what often happens to

Nicole York:

us as artists, what you have given me is basically, the the

Nicole York:

incredible things that you do with your art. And most of us as

Nicole York:

artists, we tend to want to sell based on those things, right?

Nicole York:

Like, we tend to want to go well, I have 10 years of

Nicole York:

experience. And I use my imagination to do this. And so

Nicole York:

you know that that's why this thing has value. But we have to

Nicole York:

remember that that is why those things have value to us. When I

Nicole York:

looked at your designs, the value that it brought to me, as

Nicole York:

a viewer, was a sense of fun, and a sense of liveliness, and a

Nicole York:

sense of excitement in life, like there was so much energy in

Nicole York:

these designs, and so much fun. And this really like vibrant

Nicole York:

spirit of breaking the rules. And if I were to buy a piece of

Nicole York:

art like that, for my home, for me, the value would not be that

Nicole York:

you know that the artist was experimenting, or that they

Nicole York:

could take different things and put them together. The value for

Nicole York:

me would be this is an expression of something I want

Nicole York:

in my life. I want this sense of vitality and breaking the rules

Nicole York:

and being fun and being alive. Like this is a really beautiful

Nicole York:

representation of that for me. And so I think what we have to

Nicole York:

try to figure out as artists, which is why this conversation

Nicole York:

is so important artists and business people is what is

Nicole York:

somebody actually getting when they get my work. Because, of

Nicole York:

course, when I put a price tag on this, I have to consider

Nicole York:

things like this is 10 years of experience, if I have one year

Nicole York:

of experience, you're probably not going to be able to justify

Nicole York:

charging as much as somebody who has an entire lifetime behind

Nicole York:

their ability to create these things. But what the customer is

Nicole York:

actually getting, it's something different than the value we put

Nicole York:

on our own art. Like Jean said, he took a photo of the inside of

Nicole York:

Union Station, somebody didn't buy that, because it was the

Nicole York:

best taken photo of Union Station ever. And it had even

Nicole York:

though I'm sure it was obviously gorgeous, but and it had, you

Nicole York:

know, it was on archival paper, and it had it cetera, et cetera,

Nicole York:

those are just extra good things, they bought it because

Nicole York:

it made them feel connected to the place that they got married.

Nicole York:

So that was the value they got from that piece of art. So I

Nicole York:

think when we want to start looking at the value that we're

Nicole York:

getting to our customer, what they're actually getting from

Nicole York:

us, not just the fact that this is a one of a kind painting,

Nicole York:

because I could stick my hand in red paint and slap it on a

Nicole York:

canvas and it's a one of a kind painting, it's my hand, nobody

Nicole York:

else is going to have that. And I'm never going to do another

Nicole York:

one. The value is not in the originality alone. It's in when

Nicole York:

somebody looks at that, what do they feel? What do they get from

Nicole York:

it? How does it help them express or explore? And so in

Nicole York:

your case, Carol, when you are looking at building the

Nicole York:

structure for your business, I would start asking some of your

Nicole York:

clients and even just some friends. Try to get you know

Nicole York:

like So for folks that are here today. Go look at Carol's work,

Nicole York:

and then message her and tell you her what you get from it

Nicole York:

when you see it. And that's I think really going to help Carol

Nicole York:

differentiate between what value we get as artists from the work

Nicole York:

we make, and what value other people are actually buying from

Nicole York:

us? And that's really the crux of this conversation, which is

Nicole York:

why I'm so glad you brought it up. Because I think a lot of

Nicole York:

folks are going to listen to these questions. And they're

Nicole York:

going to be thinking exactly the same way as you, they're going

Nicole York:

to be thinking, well, you know, I'm really creative. And I have

Nicole York:

this, you know, history of, you know, understanding mythology,

Nicole York:

and I bring that to my work and, and I make all the costumes

Nicole York:

myself, and, okay, well, that's super great for us. But what

Nicole York:

somebody is getting from being able to put these costumes on

Nicole York:

and have their photo taken in them, is the experience of

Nicole York:

becoming someone else. Whether I bought the costume or put it

Nicole York:

together is it's kind of just a neat sideline thing. It's, it's

Nicole York:

a, it's a freak show attraction, right? It's like, oh, cool. But

Nicole York:

the fact that it was handmade, may not necessarily be the thing

Nicole York:

that gives them the value, the thing that gives them the value

Nicole York:

is the experience of being able to become a part of themselves

Nicole York:

that they might not have been able to do otherwise. So I

Nicole York:

really want you to think about that, as you're looking at,

Nicole York:

like, moving into this business side, and how you're going to

Nicole York:

structure things that the value people get from your art, when

Nicole York:

they see it is not necessarily the same thing as what we as

Nicole York:

artists perceive it to be. I hope that makes sense.

Carol Gonzales:

It absolutely makes sense. In it, it makes me

Carol Gonzales:

recall that this one lady said, she wrote on my post, she said

Carol Gonzales:

you got a party going on in your head. So that was kind of a, you

Carol Gonzales:

know, it's sort of it sort of reflects how it made her feel

Carol Gonzales:

when she saw my art. And I do get that kind of that kind of

Carol Gonzales:

response how I how I verbalize other than that was pretty

Carol Gonzales:

descriptive to me. But you know, I don't know, I don't know how

Carol Gonzales:

to put it together. Perfect.

Bekka Bjorke:

On on originality, just because that's a big factor

Bekka Bjorke:

in my own work. And you know, what does attract my clients, to

Bekka Bjorke:

me is my creative, strange brain. People see it, I know

Bekka Bjorke:

they see it. And you know, that is what draws them to the art in

Bekka Bjorke:

the first place. Right. And I'm sure you know, when people are

Bekka Bjorke:

attracted to your art, they know that it's creative, they know

Bekka Bjorke:

that it's not a copy or replication or pop art of you

Bekka Bjorke:

know, whatever, they see that already. So being able to kind

Bekka Bjorke:

of like, let go, like, know that you have that in your tool belt,

Bekka Bjorke:

like know that that is a skill that you have, and you are good

Bekka Bjorke:

at, and it's attractive, but you don't have to focus on it.

Bekka Bjorke:

Because like that woman who said, there's a party in your

Bekka Bjorke:

head, like people are seeing that already. So now you can go

Bekka Bjorke:

on and you can focus on all the other ways that you can draw

Bekka Bjorke:

them in.

Carol Gonzales:

When I'm formulating the statement,

Carol Gonzales:

though, that you guys were talking about, I forget what you

Carol Gonzales:

would you call it, but how I don't know how to, you know? Um,

Nicole York:

so when we get statements, yeah, when we get on

Nicole York:

statements as Yep. So that understanding and how we can put

Nicole York:

that into a really sissing sentence is going to be part of

Nicole York:

when we start talking about a business plan, that's going to

Nicole York:

be part of that. So it, you know, hang in there, because

Nicole York:

that hopefully will help you do that. And for the other folks

Nicole York:

that are in the same place as you, hopefully that is helpful

Nicole York:

to them, as well, they'll be able to take kind of the seeds

Nicole York:

that were planted today, and put it into that vision statement.

Nicole York:

So I do now have to close everything down. So today we

Nicole York:

talked about the fact that in order to build the structure of

Nicole York:

our business, we have to understand what business we're

Nicole York:

building, which means we need to know what value our business is

Nicole York:

bringing to the marketplace, because a business is nothing

Nicole York:

other than adding value to someone's life. So we are

Nicole York:

essentially asking ourselves, what building am I building? And

Nicole York:

then how do I build the blueprints that allow this

Nicole York:

building to exist. So if you're building a home, you're going to

Nicole York:

include all of the aspects that are important for somebody who

Nicole York:

is using the building as a home and your business is no

Nicole York:

different. If you are building a business based on a specific

Nicole York:

value, you want to structure the business so that all of those

Nicole York:

internal structural elements support the use of the business.

Nicole York:

And as we continue this conversation we're going to talk

Nicole York:

about is are we are we taking portraits and if we are who are

Nicole York:

we talking to? And how are we selling them, etc. We're going

Nicole York:

to really break those things down. That's going to continue

Nicole York:

next week. So I hope you will be here for that. And thank you

Nicole York:

again to everybody who was here who shared their thoughts and

Nicole York:

their experiences. Y'all are amazing. Have a fantastic

Nicole York:

weekend. Join us next week as we dive back into the artists forge

Nicole York:

master the business of art big It's gonna be a fantastic

Nicole York:

journey. So, like I said, Have a great weekend Go make something

Nicole York:

amazing from me and everyone else here on the artists board.

Nicole York:

Have a great weekend guys and we will see you next time.

Matt Stagliano:

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

Matt Stagliano:

discussion moderated by all of us at the artist Forge. We hope

Matt Stagliano:

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

Matt Stagliano:

episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit

Matt Stagliano:

the artists forge.com and go make something incredible

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge

About the Podcast

Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge
How to Critique Art
Learn how mindset, creativity, and visual literacy will help you think like an artist so you can create work you love and build a career that matters; bridging the gap between technique and art.

About your host

Profile picture for Nicole York

Nicole York