full

full
Published on:

17th Mar 2022

Should You Quit?

There are times when we need to change direction, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. But how do we know when?

Listen to real artists talk about the changes they made, and how they knew when it was time to quit.

Learn more about how to think like an artist on The Artist's Forge, and join our growing community of artists on Facebook.

Want to know more about the hosts?

Nicole York

Matt Stagliano

Cat Ford-Coates

Bassam Sabbagh

Bekka Bjorke

Transcript
Matt Stagliano:

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

Matt Stagliano:

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

Matt Stagliano:

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

Matt Stagliano:

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

Matt Stagliano:

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

Matt Stagliano:

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

Matt Stagliano:

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

Matt Stagliano:

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

Matt Stagliano:

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

Matt Stagliano:

us on the web at the artist forge COMM Now on to the show.

Nicole York:

Well, I suppose now that we have been joined by our

Nicole York:

wonderful friends, it is time to say good morning, and welcome to

Nicole York:

Morning walk with the artists Forge. My name is Nicole York.

Nicole York:

I'm your host. And I sound really excited. But we're going

Nicole York:

to be talking about quitting today. So we got that going for

Nicole York:

us. Actually, I think it's going to be a really fantastic

Nicole York:

conversation. Because although the subject is quitting,

Nicole York:

quitting doesn't always have to mean quitting. But I think there

Nicole York:

are times when we can recognize that it's time for a shift. And

Nicole York:

because we talked about motivation, and we talked about

Nicole York:

how we continue to be motivated, what kinds of things do we do?

Nicole York:

What questions do we ask ourselves? And how do we dig

Nicole York:

deep? Sometimes those questions are going to be answered by

Nicole York:

saying, it's just not this thing anymore. And it's a really

Nicole York:

difficult subject to tackle. Because, number one, nobody

Nicole York:

really likes to feel like they've given up. Number two, we

Nicole York:

struggle with the sunk cost fallacy, which basically means

Nicole York:

we have this feeling that I've put so much into this pursuit,

Nicole York:

that if I give up now, I will have wasted all that time,

Nicole York:

right. And so that is something that sometimes keeps us inside

Nicole York:

of, or keeps us following a path we maybe should have left. And I

Nicole York:

know that it's difficult to come to that conclusion, because we

Nicole York:

truly do want to believe that as long as we stay true, and we

Nicole York:

keep following the path, and we understand our by all the things

Nicole York:

that we talk about to keep us motivated, that's going to

Nicole York:

guarantee that it's going to be a successful venture down the

Nicole York:

road, right. And while that is a requirement for success, taking

Nicole York:

that path doesn't always mean the thing that we're pursuing is

Nicole York:

the right thing for us. And we do have to be able to recognize

Nicole York:

when those road signs pop up that say, You know what, we're

Nicole York:

just not the same person anymore. What we're doing isn't

Nicole York:

aligned with who we are anymore. Maybe it was when we started.

Nicole York:

But for whatever reason, things have changed. It's time to take

Nicole York:

this and either move it to a different part of our lives, or

Nicole York:

change the way that we interact with it, or let it go all

Nicole York:

together. And it's really difficult as artists to walk

Nicole York:

away from things that we love, and ways that we've enjoyed

Nicole York:

creating or serving our customers. But it's a

Nicole York:

conversation we really do need to have. Because sometimes

Nicole York:

things just need to change. So the question becomes, how do we

Nicole York:

know? How do we know when it's time to walk away from

Nicole York:

something, or for that thing that we love to mutate into a

Nicole York:

new version of itself so that it can serve its place in our life

Nicole York:

better. I know almost everybody on the panel today has gone

Nicole York:

through one of these changes in their lives where they were in a

Nicole York:

career, that for a long time they loved and for whatever

Nicole York:

reason, whether that was a business, we were running

Nicole York:

ourselves or a business we were part of, for whatever reason we

Nicole York:

changed or the business changed, or it just didn't align with

Nicole York:

what we wanted in our futures anymore. And so the way that we

Nicole York:

price the vehicle, the way that we approach that thing, or the

Nicole York:

purpose it serves in our life had to change as well. So

Nicole York:

there's a lot of insight here on the panel today. And I know

Nicole York:

we'll have a lot of insight with the audience members. So

Nicole York:

although we'll give everyone on the panel a chance to chat for a

Nicole York:

little bit, please be ready to raise your hand if you have gone

Nicole York:

through one of those experiences where the art form you loved or

Nicole York:

the business you were pursuing or whatever it is needed to

Nicole York:

either be removed or changed in your life. Because the last

Nicole York:

thing we want to do is keep following the wrong directions

Nicole York:

to a city we don't even want to go to anymore. Sometimes the

Nicole York:

best thing we can do is let go and turn towards the new thing

Nicole York:

or the thing that's better aligned with us. So I would love

Nicole York:

to hear I know, I know some of these stories already. But I

Nicole York:

would love to hear from the panelists today. What is your

Nicole York:

experience with and I'm going to call it quitting even though

Nicole York:

it's not entirely but it's probably the best term used to

Nicole York:

describe having to walk away from something or change it. So

Nicole York:

what is your experience with quitting something that you did

Nicole York:

love or did care about? Or maybe you cared about it at one time,

Nicole York:

and then something happened that pulled that love away? What was

Nicole York:

that like for you?

Cat Ford-Coates:

I'm just I'm just gonna hop in right away. I

Cat Ford-Coates:

think it's also important to note and this is something I go

Cat Ford-Coates:

over with my my mentees, when we're setting goals, and new

Cat Ford-Coates:

year resolutions and intentions and all of the things and it's

Cat Ford-Coates:

sort of it's, it's along the same lines with the quote

Cat Ford-Coates:

unquote, quitting. But it still ties into sort of the the

Cat Ford-Coates:

Success space. So you can choose to keep this as a point or, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, like, move on without it. But one of the things that is

Cat Ford-Coates:

required of us as we grow and evolve in our careers, is

Cat Ford-Coates:

learning to quit doing certain things, so that we're able to

Cat Ford-Coates:

grow into the person that we need to be to get to that next

Cat Ford-Coates:

level. So we have to quit certain things and stop

Cat Ford-Coates:

tolerating certain things in our personal lives and in our

Cat Ford-Coates:

businesses. So that we're able to become the person that we

Cat Ford-Coates:

need to be in order for that business to grow. So that's,

Cat Ford-Coates:

that's definitely in line with with the quitting piece without

Cat Ford-Coates:

being like, I walked away from my bartending career. You know,

Cat Ford-Coates:

after all of the hurdles and created a photo business, I had

Cat Ford-Coates:

to I didn't want to be the 50 year old bartender right. So I

Cat Ford-Coates:

had to move into that space where like, okay, I guess I need

Cat Ford-Coates:

to learn how to use this camera. But learning when we need to

Cat Ford-Coates:

quit doing certain things, and tolerating certain things allows

Cat Ford-Coates:

us to grow and evolve as people.

Nicole York:

Oh, man, you're absolutely right. And I love the

Nicole York:

way that this topic not only applies to sometimes when we

Nicole York:

need to recognize you know what, what I'm doing now is not right

Nicole York:

for me. But also you're absolutely right. The things

Nicole York:

that I'm tolerating in my life and what I'm allowing to be

Nicole York:

there, sometimes those are not the right things, either. So the

Nicole York:

question becomes, how do we start to recognize those things?

Nicole York:

And what are some of the steps that we can take to actually,

Nicole York:

because at least from my perspective, I have often

Nicole York:

tolerated things far longer than I should have, because of a lot

Nicole York:

of the reasons that we talked about before. Because, you know,

Nicole York:

society says, like, be determined, it's grit that

Nicole York:

really gets those 1%, to where they want to go, and all these

Nicole York:

things. And I don't want to be a quitter, right. Like, I don't

Nicole York:

want to keep allowing things in my life. But also, it's hard for

Nicole York:

me to recognize because I have all these other expectations on

Nicole York:

me. So what are some of the things that you use cat to start

Nicole York:

to recognize when something needs to be cut out or cut away

Nicole York:

from your life,

Cat Ford-Coates:

resentment, and bottleneck in systems. So if I

Cat Ford-Coates:

start resenting clients, friends, family, whatever, I

Cat Ford-Coates:

know that there's something that I'm tolerating that I haven't

Cat Ford-Coates:

set a boundary on, or at least not as clearly as maybe I

Cat Ford-Coates:

thought I had, is a big one for me, where if I start resenting

Cat Ford-Coates:

anyone for any reason, it's typically because I haven't said

Cat Ford-Coates:

X, Y, or Z. And then when I start seeing bottlenecks, and

Cat Ford-Coates:

systems like retouching is a huge example of this. When I

Cat Ford-Coates:

start realizing like, I don't have time to retouch, and then

Cat Ford-Coates:

I'm starting to resent the process of retouching, then I

Cat Ford-Coates:

know like, Okay, I need to outsource the retouching. So I

Cat Ford-Coates:

can continue shooting and creating, and let somebody else

Cat Ford-Coates:

handle that retouch aspect so that I can continue on those

Cat Ford-Coates:

like money making tasks.

Nicole York:

Holy moly, those two things are so clear. And I

Nicole York:

love that so much. Especially because what you said is, if I'm

Nicole York:

feeling resentful toward a person, it's not because they're

Nicole York:

necessarily doing anything wrong, per se, it's because I'm

Nicole York:

allowing something I shouldn't be allowing, like, I should have

Nicole York:

said something right, I should have let them know, this is not

Nicole York:

okay for me, or this is not acceptable, or that's a really

Nicole York:

powerful way to take responsibility for the things

Nicole York:

that are coming into your life in a way that means you actually

Nicole York:

have the power to change them. I really, really love that idea.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Yeah, like when we talked about contracts last

Cat Ford-Coates:

week, I think it was last week. You know, I've had a couple of

Cat Ford-Coates:

clients sort of pop up out of the blue with like additional

Cat Ford-Coates:

retouching requests after like, they've received digital files

Cat Ford-Coates:

and then weeks after that they've received folios and then

Cat Ford-Coates:

I get emails Hey, you know, can we do this? Can we do this? Can

Cat Ford-Coates:

we do this? I was like, Alright, fine. And it's because I hadn't

Cat Ford-Coates:

set a boundary in any kind of contract or conversation or

Cat Ford-Coates:

anything else. And so I was like, Alright, fine. I guess

Cat Ford-Coates:

that's the universe being like, alright, cat us fucking

Cat Ford-Coates:

contract. But that's, that's The thing, right, like I hadn't set

Cat Ford-Coates:

the boundary, because my expectation is we talked about

Cat Ford-Coates:

all the edits that they wanted, and then they were delivered.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And then weeks went by, after that delivery, and then I start

Cat Ford-Coates:

getting these emails about law. So you know, it still happens,

Cat Ford-Coates:

you know, 10 years.

Nicole York:

For sure. And man, I think all of us can, can look

Nicole York:

at that and be able to apply it all throughout our lives, like

Nicole York:

we know what it feels like to start resenting a person or a

Nicole York:

process or a situation. And that's a really fantastic

Nicole York:

indicator. So we're going to grab that is number one, right?

Nicole York:

If we start feeling resentful, we need to look at that as a red

Nicole York:

flag that points to something and start exploring whatever

Nicole York:

that is, whether that is a person or situation, a process,

Nicole York:

that's part of our workflow. I really, really love being able

Nicole York:

to use that as as point number one, because it's a powerful

Nicole York:

one. So what else y'all? What are some other either red flags

Nicole York:

or signs that we can know when it's time to quit something.

Matt Stagliano:

I think cat covered the same red flags that

Matt Stagliano:

I have is if you know, I'm feeling resentful towards

Matt Stagliano:

something or it's just not bringing me any level of joy.

Matt Stagliano:

But I usually kind of move on at that point or change something

Matt Stagliano:

significantly, whether it's my marriage, whether it's my

Matt Stagliano:

company, whether it's a book that I'm reading, if I get 10

Matt Stagliano:

pages into a book, and it's just not thrilling me, there's

Matt Stagliano:

nothing that I feel I have to finish that book. The problem

Matt Stagliano:

is, I'm also extraordinarily loyal, extraordinarily

Matt Stagliano:

tenacious, very nostalgic. So I tend to hold on for far too

Matt Stagliano:

long. But I do eventually get to a point where I'm like, You know

Matt Stagliano:

what, this just isn't working for me. And at that point, it's

Matt Stagliano:

a, it's a final door that shut. But it's that nostalgia. It's

Matt Stagliano:

that thing that keeps me hanging on, right, that keeps me

Matt Stagliano:

invested for far too long. Maybe that's a boundary issue that I

Matt Stagliano:

have. But I know that when I'm quitting something, it's kind of

Matt Stagliano:

like you're dead to me, right? It's, it's not like, oh, I

Matt Stagliano:

should probably give this up. I'm like, Nope, I made the

Matt Stagliano:

decision, you're dead to me. And I did the same thing with

Matt Stagliano:

several of my businesses, I realized that I'm like, You know

Matt Stagliano:

what, I'm not getting the same passion out of this. It's taking

Matt Stagliano:

up a lot of my time, I would be better served going somewhere

Matt Stagliano:

else. So where does that all start? It's kind of the same

Matt Stagliano:

thing. I preach in all aspects. It's the self awareness. It's

Matt Stagliano:

doing the check ins, it's, you know, really asking yourself,

Matt Stagliano:

Does this make me happy? Why am I doing this? Do I feel

Matt Stagliano:

resentment? Am I moving forward? Is this bringing me anything in

Matt Stagliano:

the long run? Can I outsource it, give it away? Leave it,

Matt Stagliano:

whatever it may be? What's the outcome look like? And the way

Matt Stagliano:

that I go about that is I say, if I was to look at someone from

Matt Stagliano:

the outside, and give them advice, take stock of them. I

Matt Stagliano:

don't know them, I bet I see what's going on in their life.

Matt Stagliano:

And I know exactly what the root cause of their problem is. What

Matt Stagliano:

would I say to them? And then I turn around, and I say that

Matt Stagliano:

directly back to me. Because if I'm not being honest with

Matt Stagliano:

myself, and saying, You know what, I've been doing this style

Matt Stagliano:

of photography too long, or I'm trying to retouch for too long,

Matt Stagliano:

and convince myself that it's doing something good for me,

Matt Stagliano:

when in actuality it's not, then I know, at that point, if I had

Matt Stagliano:

a friend that came in and looked at me, what would the advice be

Matt Stagliano:

that they gave me? That's what I try to look at it. That's the

Matt Stagliano:

point that I try to look at from Does that make sense? So it's

Matt Stagliano:

kind of that remade in my head, the the unbiased observer,

Matt Stagliano:

something like that? Where I look at my own life, and I say,

Matt Stagliano:

what would what would a really good honest friend, tell me

Matt Stagliano:

about this situation? And what I need to do, and that usually

Matt Stagliano:

guides me pretty clearly.

Nicole York:

Okay, I really love that. And there was something

Nicole York:

that you said there that I kind of immediately latched on to.

Nicole York:

And I lost what it was. So I'm super bummed out. But I want to

Nicole York:

start with the fact that I think those check ins are so so

Nicole York:

important. And that's something we don't do often enough, right?

Nicole York:

We tend to kind of plow ahead, and we just keep going until

Nicole York:

things are so wrong, that it forces us to do something. It's

Nicole York:

like ignoring the fact that your car needs an oil change and not

Nicole York:

doing anything to the check engine light comes on. And all

Nicole York:

of a sudden something is something is starting to go

Nicole York:

catastrophic, right. So what do you I know you mentioned it a

Nicole York:

little bit, but I just want to hone in on it for a second for

Nicole York:

those check ins with yourself. What do you do and how often do

Nicole York:

you have those?

Matt Stagliano:

How many seconds are in a day because there's

Matt Stagliano:

usually one or two, one or two per second? Yeah, you know, I do

Matt Stagliano:

it. I wish I could say I had a timetable for it, it's Monday,

Matt Stagliano:

I'm gonna do a check in with myself. It's really the feelings

Matt Stagliano:

that I get right? And I try to look at it. And I say what other

Matt Stagliano:

things are going on in my life? Am I pissed off about this over

Matt Stagliano:

here? Am I not sleeping or eating? Well, like, why am I

Matt Stagliano:

feeling this general sense of malaise? Or lack of motivation,

Matt Stagliano:

or dread or resentment, or whatever it is, Why am I feeling

Matt Stagliano:

these negative feelings? And I try to trace it to the root, if

Matt Stagliano:

it winds up being something that I'm working on, that's when it

Matt Stagliano:

triggers that Alright, well, what would I say to myself, if I

Matt Stagliano:

were an outside observer, you know, a perfect example for me

Matt Stagliano:

on a on a very tangible, everyday basis is all these

Matt Stagliano:

subscriptions that I have, right? Whether it's education

Matt Stagliano:

sites, or content writing sites, or stock video sites, or, you

Matt Stagliano:

know, whatever the case is, I've got all of these subscriptions

Matt Stagliano:

that I pay X amount of dollars, anywhere from $9 to $120 a

Matt Stagliano:

month. And some of them I look at I'm like, Ah, I should cancel

Matt Stagliano:

that. I really should cancel that. But I might get something

Matt Stagliano:

out of it. Tomorrow, I might have a project and I hold on to

Matt Stagliano:

it, I hold on to it. Meanwhile, I'm complaining like, damn it.

Matt Stagliano:

I'm losing money every month on this part of my business. Why is

Matt Stagliano:

that? And the answer presents itself. Just get rid of the

Matt Stagliano:

friggin subscriptions, you know, and I just, when I finally get

Matt Stagliano:

to that point, I start canceling stuff. But that's a that's kind

Matt Stagliano:

of a tangible, tangible example, where I have to figure out what

Matt Stagliano:

the root of the problem is. And then I just go after it and take

Matt Stagliano:

care of it. Does that? Does that help? Nicole?

Nicole York:

Yeah, yeah. And then so I know, at least for me,

Nicole York:

particularly going into this new year, I'm making sure that I'm

Nicole York:

doing quarterly check ins. So there's two things First, I want

Nicole York:

to say really quickly, just in case, I forget, the point about

Nicole York:

having to convince yourself is what I want to touch on. So

Nicole York:

don't let me forget that. But when it comes to the check ins,

Nicole York:

I realized that that was a mistake that I was making as I

Nicole York:

was just letting random circumstances just determined

Nicole York:

when I started checking in with myself, like I was waiting for,

Nicole York:

I don't know, maybe subconsciously, I was waiting

Nicole York:

for some emotion to come along where I was like, and I just

Nicole York:

couldn't ignore it anymore. And then I'd go, Okay, wait, it's

Nicole York:

time to figure things out. But instead, this year, I've

Nicole York:

realized that I'm just going to build the systems, and I'm going

Nicole York:

to run them for a quarter, and then I'm going to stop it, I'm

Nicole York:

going to look back at all the data I have, and use that data.

Nicole York:

And then we'll like weigh that against how I feel about

Nicole York:

everything. So I'm going to do a check in every quarter, with my

Nicole York:

business and with myself to see where everything is at and run

Nicole York:

through all those internal exercises to see okay, am I

Nicole York:

still happy? Is this still workable? Do it Does it still

Nicole York:

feel like, this is the thing I should be doing? How does it

Nicole York:

have the field to run through these systems every day? Now

Nicole York:

that I've been doing it for long enough to actually have

Nicole York:

everything down? Pat? Is this still okay? And then do the

Nicole York:

numbers corroborate the fact that I'm doing good things? Or

Nicole York:

does something need to change? So for me, I'm absolutely, like

Nicole York:

literally putting that in my calendar, I'm not going to let a

Nicole York:

quarter go by without doing that for myself. So for you, before

Nicole York:

we get to the convincing yourself part, do you just kind

Nicole York:

of do these? Naturally, I know that you said, you know, going

Nicole York:

through a therapy really helps you be a lot more present with

Nicole York:

yourself. So are these things now that you just do without

Nicole York:

having to think about it? Or do you make time specifically to do

Nicole York:

those check ins with yourself?

Matt Stagliano:

From a business standpoint, I check in at least

Matt Stagliano:

once quarterly. Usually it's once a month because I'm a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit more obsessive than that. From the self awareness

Matt Stagliano:

standpoint. Yeah. It's just ingrained in me now. It's

Matt Stagliano:

literally constant. It's every couple of minutes. It's every

Matt Stagliano:

couple of hours depending on how the day is going. But yeah, I'm

Matt Stagliano:

I'm constantly looking inwards. That's probably not necessarily

Matt Stagliano:

the best thing either. But it's I've gone through it so much. In

Matt Stagliano:

practice, it's so much it's relatively easy for me to pick

Matt Stagliano:

up on when my mood varies from, you know, generally between the

Matt Stagliano:

guardrails and I start going off the road. I'm very aware of

Matt Stagliano:

that, and can pretty much course correct immediately.

Nicole York:

Okay, beautiful. That's kind of what I suspected.

Nicole York:

So, just want to remind everybody who's listening today

Nicole York:

that there is not a right way or a one perfect way to do these

Nicole York:

check in whether you need to be doing them often, or whether you

Nicole York:

can space them out a little bit. Whatever it is. You need. You

Nicole York:

need to schedule those you need to have those be part of how am

Nicole York:

I don't wait until you've brought yourself out before you

Nicole York:

figure out what went wrong. Give yourself those 3000 mile oil

Nicole York:

changes so that you can take stock of what's going on before

Nicole York:

things go catastrophic. Because we've talked about before the

Nicole York:

fact that we will tend to stay in our comfort It zones, as long

Nicole York:

as humanly possible, until the cost of changing or until the

Nicole York:

cost of staying the same outweighs the cost of changing.

Nicole York:

And so then it requires some outside force to impact our

Nicole York:

lives and force us into making the changes we need to make. If

Nicole York:

we can avoid that. If we can make those changes early with

Nicole York:

good information, it's going to be a lot better for us. So

Nicole York:

making sure that we take the time to check in. And then the

Nicole York:

other thing you said, I want to touch on before we get to

Nicole York:

Beckett and Assam and then yes, I see the hands up in the

Nicole York:

audience, please hang in there, guys, we are we are going to

Nicole York:

bring you up. But the thing I wanted to touch on was, you

Nicole York:

basically said, I will convince myself to keep doing things,

Nicole York:

even though they're not actually helping me because, right, you

Nicole York:

don't want to give up on something or that may help you

Nicole York:

in the future, or whatever it is that you come up with, you kind

Nicole York:

of have to convince yourself to do it. And I find that to be a

Nicole York:

really fantastic red flag for me, because my powers of

Nicole York:

persuasion are high and deep. And I can convince myself of

Nicole York:

almost anything, if given enough time. And if I have had to spend

Nicole York:

days, weeks months trying to tell myself that something is

Nicole York:

still a good idea, even though it's clearly not because I

Nicole York:

wouldn't have to persuade myself. If it was, that's a good

Nicole York:

red flag for me that something needs to change. So there may be

Nicole York:

some people in the audience who are the same if I have to keep

Nicole York:

reminding myself and keep bringing up my why and keep

Nicole York:

trying to say, oh, all this is a good idea. Yeah. Come on you

Nicole York:

it's a good idea, then probably it's not a good enough idea that

Nicole York:

I can do it without persuasion. And I think that's not a great

Nicole York:

sign for where something fits in our lives. So I really liked

Nicole York:

that point also, okay, Becca, besom. Before we start snatching

Nicole York:

up friends from the audience, what about y'all? What do you

Nicole York:

think about quitting? How do we know when it's time? Or? Do we

Nicole York:

even have to necessarily quit? Can things change? Like, what

Nicole York:

are your thoughts in general?

Bekka Bjorke:

I'm not even going to pretend to have a mature or

Bekka Bjorke:

functional response to this particular topic,

Nicole York:

in fact, are really quiet, or is that just me? I'm

Nicole York:

here, I'm here. Okay. I also turned myself up just a little

Nicole York:

bit, I just want to make sure.

Bekka Bjorke:

Oh, yeah. So I mean, I definitely fall into the

Bekka Bjorke:

category of preferring to burn so hot to find a solution to

Bekka Bjorke:

something that will eventually explode into a giant cloud of

Bekka Bjorke:

dust, which is not functional, not healthy. But I mean, maybe

Bekka Bjorke:

it's almost like a linguistic problem, or a semantics problem,

Bekka Bjorke:

where when I think of the word quit, it seems like a really

Bekka Bjorke:

hard stop. And often when I have had issues that may or may not

Bekka Bjorke:

have ended in quitting, I prefer to look for the solution. And I

Bekka Bjorke:

will keep looking for that solution at whatever cost if I'm

Bekka Bjorke:

really deeply emotionally invested in something. And in

Bekka Bjorke:

the case, where I do find a solution, I no longer think of

Bekka Bjorke:

it as quitting, but rather as evolution. So for instance, like

Bekka Bjorke:

in my career, I don't ever consider that I quit

Bekka Bjorke:

photography. Like Absolutely not, I still think of myself on

Bekka Bjorke:

some level as a photographer, even though I don't really take

Bekka Bjorke:

photos these days. But I didn't quit photography to become an

Bekka Bjorke:

illustrator, a digital artist, and my art itself evolved. But,

Bekka Bjorke:

yeah, I mean, when it comes to actually having to really just

Bekka Bjorke:

hard pull the plug on something i Not, not something I am good

Bekka Bjorke:

at, similar to what you said about persuading yourself into

Bekka Bjorke:

anything, I will definitely keep, you know, that lock jaw

Bekka Bjorke:

grip on whatever the thing is, and hold on until there's

Bekka Bjorke:

nothing to hold on to anymore. Which is not the best idea,

Bekka Bjorke:

right? It's not it's not and I'm just being candid with it. Like

Bekka Bjorke:

I'm not gonna pretend to be profound here. Like I have some

Bekka Bjorke:

great answer. And this is something I'm good at. It's not

Bekka Bjorke:

it's absolutely not I struggle with that. And like things like

Bekka Bjorke:

my first marriage I held on for years that really didn't need to

Bekka Bjorke:

be held on to because I was so emotionally invested and letting

Bekka Bjorke:

go of things like time and effort that you know, you put

Bekka Bjorke:

into anything, whatever that may be, it's really hard to let go

Bekka Bjorke:

of, and sometimes it takes if we backtrack a long time to Kats

Bekka Bjorke:

idea of Phoenix thing, you know, where we burn ourselves up into

Bekka Bjorke:

ash like sometimes that's really what it would take for me to

Bekka Bjorke:

stop something. And no, it's not the best idea.

Nicole York:

No, I mean, I think that you said two things that

Nicole York:

were actually really profound. And the first thing I wanted to

Nicole York:

grab ahold of, was just this idea of evolution. Right. And I

Nicole York:

think you're absolutely right. Semantics do play an important

Nicole York:

part in in how we justify something to ourselves, and

Nicole York:

sometimes quitting. If we that kind of person, just the word

Nicole York:

itself has these negative connotations, right? And it

Nicole York:

really is like cutting something off and it no longer exists

Nicole York:

anymore. And depending on how we define that for ourselves, may

Nicole York:

not be the right word for the situation that we're using. The

Nicole York:

reason I chose that word today is because it is such a, it's a

Nicole York:

hard word like it is a powerful, delineating just smash it with a

Nicole York:

gavel kind of word, which forces us to think right. But your your

Nicole York:

term evolution is absolutely right. And I think oftentimes,

Nicole York:

we will not give something up. Because we know not only the

Nicole York:

sunk cost fallacy, like I've been doing this for so long, we

Nicole York:

don't realize that we're now wasting our time as well. But

Nicole York:

we, we are afraid to give up all the things that we've learned,

Nicole York:

not realizing that really, we never, those things never leave

Nicole York:

us, they just evolve into the next iteration of who we are. So

Nicole York:

when, and I know this with you, because I've done the same

Nicole York:

thing. All of those skills that I have in photography, I pull

Nicole York:

those into illustration, I still understand lighting and form and

Nicole York:

posing and all of these things. And my my time spent retouching

Nicole York:

has given me a really deep understanding of anatomy, right,

Nicole York:

particularly of the face. So I can tell when something is off,

Nicole York:

if I'm illustrating, I know, I don't have an eye socket that

Nicole York:

like actually working in bone structure the way it should. So

Nicole York:

you don't ever actually lose those skills. They always are on

Nicole York:

some kind of a pivot. Even if the fields seem like they're

Nicole York:

very different. You could say that bartending for cat and

Nicole York:

photography are two wildly different skill sets. But the

Nicole York:

ability to connect with people, and deal with people and have

Nicole York:

great customer service and learn what people want and what they

Nicole York:

need. And all of these things that you need, as a good

Nicole York:

bartender really can transfer skillsets and come with you. So

Nicole York:

you don't actually lose those things. And I think often, we

Nicole York:

refuse to give things up, because we're afraid of losing

Nicole York:

all the things that we built, which also ties into our

Nicole York:

identity. And how we see ourselves, right, we have this

Nicole York:

feeling that once those things go, and once I stopped doing

Nicole York:

these things, who am I now. And so of course, our brain wants to

Nicole York:

step in and try to protect that seed of identity and be like,

Nicole York:

Well, then don't do the things stupid, we don't want to lose

Nicole York:

all this part, we don't want to grieve over this and have to

Nicole York:

rebuild this whole piece of ourselves. But the simple fact

Nicole York:

of the matter is, as people that's just what we have to do.

Nicole York:

When you grow, you lose parts of the old thing, and you take

Nicole York:

what's important with you into the next phase, a butterfly is a

Nicole York:

different creature than a caterpillar. But it's still the

Nicole York:

caterpillar that was the caterpillar before, if that

Nicole York:

makes any sense, it just lost the pieces of itself that

Nicole York:

wouldn't serve it in its new life. And it grew new pieces of

Nicole York:

itself that would serve it in the life that it will have in

Nicole York:

the future. And we are kind of the same. But the fear of the

Nicole York:

pain of that change in the fear of the grief that's associated

Nicole York:

with losing those things can often be the thing that stops us

Nicole York:

from evolving. And so that's why I love your use of that word so

Nicole York:

much. Because you do in a very real way, quit becoming the

Nicole York:

caterpillar, you are not a caterpillar any longer. But that

Nicole York:

doesn't mean that you didn't still retain the important parts

Nicole York:

of who you are as you move into the next thing. And those skill

Nicole York:

sets that we bring with us still do exist. So I do actually think

Nicole York:

that that was incredibly profound. Be secretly profound,

Nicole York:

much faster and cleaner than I did.

Bekka Bjorke:

prettier. I did, actually, you mentioned the

Bekka Bjorke:

grief and the loss there. And I feel like that's a huge factor.

Bekka Bjorke:

I know. And like big life changes for me is that grieving

Bekka Bjorke:

period, and if there was any profound revelation I really

Bekka Bjorke:

had, through large changes, it's accepting that it's okay to

Bekka Bjorke:

grieve those things. And you can still move on without whatever

Bekka Bjorke:

they may be. And take the time to be upset about it. It can

Bekka Bjorke:

feel like a little death, you know, whatever it is, if it's a

Bekka Bjorke:

career change, or a friendship or a romance or you know,

Bekka Bjorke:

whatever. Heck, even your educational subscriptions over

Bekka Bjorke:

there. Matt, if you need to be sad about that after you turn

Bekka Bjorke:

them off, like go for it, go feel some grief. But that's just

Bekka Bjorke:

part of the process of moving forward through that evolution

Bekka Bjorke:

too.

Nicole York:

Yeah, absolutely. It is part of that. It's hard to

Nicole York:

accept because we don't want to add pain to our lives. But

Nicole York:

that's what that growth requires sometimes. So I want to hear

Nicole York:

from some and then both Erica and Carol had their hands up. So

Nicole York:

I have five tried to bring up both of y'all. And I would

Nicole York:

encourage friends that are in the audience today as well. If

Nicole York:

you have something to share as it comes to quitting or

Nicole York:

evolving, letting go of something. And moving forward,

Nicole York:

we really, really want to hear from you. But first, let's hear

Nicole York:

from the thumb. And then we'll start grabbing our audience

Nicole York:

members.

Unknown:

Good morning, everyone. There's so much that's been said

Unknown:

so far. And then the your last intervention, Nicole has been so

Unknown:

indicative of, or at least a good summary of what I had to go

Unknown:

through and what I had to kind of come to a realization after

Unknown:

quitting my corporate career and getting into this this next

Unknown:

phase of my life. And fundamentally, I believe at the

Unknown:

most basic level, we're all just looking for joy, that feeling of

Unknown:

joy. And, and I also believe that there's a timing for

Unknown:

everything. In other words, I like to use the term conditions

Unknown:

of success. You know, there's, there's gonna be when you quit

Unknown:

something, and you'll want it to be a positive thing, when you

Unknown:

have to be in not You're not so attached to to the past is when

Unknown:

the right conditions, the winning conditions are in place

Unknown:

for you to quit. And often, it's the recognition of certain

Unknown:

things. Right? One of the things you mentioned is where we attach

Unknown:

our identity, right? Like, what what is it? Are we actually

Unknown:

quitting? Right? Like, in my case, when I quit my my

Unknown:

corporate job? Was I really quitting being a vice president,

Unknown:

General Manager at an aerospace company, was I really quitting

Unknown:

being a leader in a large organization? And or, or did I?

Unknown:

Did I quit that or I did quit something else? And the answer

Unknown:

is, yes, I quit that. But what I did not quit is being a, an

Unknown:

individual that gets that that has impact positive impact on

Unknown:

people, and has has ways of influencing people's lives on a

Unknown:

daily basis. But what's what was missing is an alternative and a

Unknown:

recognition that that's what gave me joy. It wasn't the

Unknown:

identity that I had attached to myself, which, which is, you

Unknown:

know, corporate VP, so on and so forth. It's once you recognize

Unknown:

that your identity is the latter of the two that I described. And

Unknown:

now I actually have an alternative that I recognize

Unknown:

where I can actually thrive and get that joy somewhere else.

Unknown:

That's when quitting was obvious to me. I had a choice to quit or

Unknown:

not quit. But had I not discovered photography? Had I

Unknown:

not discovered that I can get that same joy somewhere else? I

Unknown:

don't think the winning conditions would have been there

Unknown:

for me to quit, I would have probably stuck it out, lived

Unknown:

another five years of hell. And maybe, and God knows what else

Unknown:

would have happened in terms of, you know, finding another

Unknown:

outlet. So it's, it's really sometimes the lack of that

Unknown:

alternative or clarity about where do you really get your

Unknown:

joy? So, you know, is it is it the thing itself? Or is it some

Unknown:

underlying element or thing where you get your joy, right?

Unknown:

And once we recognize that, you'll say, Well, okay, now it's

Unknown:

easy for me to quit, because I know where I get my joy, and I

Unknown:

can I have alternatives, and I can get it here and there and

Unknown:

somewhere else.

Nicole York:

I love that idea of clarity of Assam. And I know,

Nicole York:

this has been like something that you have mentioned several

Nicole York:

times over the past, I don't know, several months. But this

Nicole York:

idea of how important it is to have clarity. And I think you're

Nicole York:

absolutely right, and we can do that thing. We can search for

Nicole York:

that clarity, before we make the hard decision or afterwards, but

Nicole York:

I have this feeling that if we were to make it before, then

Nicole York:

maybe we would save ourselves a little bit of the grieving

Nicole York:

process. Because I know at least for me, the times when I have so

Nicole York:

I have stopped doing several things. Sorry for the loud

Nicole York:

vehicles. I'm gonna hide back here for a minute. In fact, I

Nicole York:

had a friend yesterday, we share a birthday so he messaged me.

Nicole York:

And then he said, man, what are you doing now? Because I look at

Nicole York:

your profile and it says former all these things right? Is a

Nicole York:

former staff writer for F stoppers and a former Community

Nicole York:

lead for pro edu and etc, etc. Like yeah, you know what, I have

Nicole York:

walked away or left a lot of things. And the interesting part

Nicole York:

about that is those things were exactly what they needed to be

Nicole York:

for the season that I was in, but many times the change left

Nicole York:

me floundering a little bit it left me trying to figure out now

Nicole York:

how that fits into my life and and what happened to the spaces

Nicole York:

that it used to fill while it was there. Those spaces were

Nicole York:

empty. And if I think I think if I would have had some clarity

Nicole York:

instead What was it that I was getting from this? Because it

Nicole York:

wasn't just the writing. And it wasn't just the management. And

Nicole York:

it wasn't just whatever. There was something that came from

Nicole York:

that, that made it worthwhile to be there. Was it the money? Was

Nicole York:

it the security? Was it being able to positively impact

Nicole York:

people? Was it having access to this group of amazing folks that

Nicole York:

I could help daily? Like, what was it that really was driving

Nicole York:

me wanting to be there? And when I stopped working for those

Nicole York:

places, did that mean that I now lose that part of myself? Or

Nicole York:

does that mean, I can still take those pieces that gave me joy,

Nicole York:

and just morph them into another arena? And I feel like, I

Nicole York:

wouldn't have had to struggle through such an identity crisis.

Nicole York:

If I would have had clarity on that beforehand. And I wish I

Nicole York:

would have been thinking that way. Before I did. Walk away

Nicole York:

from those areas.

Unknown:

Yeah. And I don't want to pretend that I knew it

Unknown:

either. Because it took me two years to figure this out. I

Unknown:

mean, after after, after I changed careers, it took me two

Unknown:

years to identify the fact that you know who I am, I'm not I'm

Unknown:

not a different person. Now, I'm the same person doing something

Unknown:

in a different context. Right, as opposed to, hey, I left an

Unknown:

identity and I gotta find a new identity. So that took two

Unknown:

years. So what I just described in terms of clarity is it's yes,

Unknown:

I wish sometimes it would have been there before. But it's

Unknown:

unfortunately, that's not the way life works. But it does

Unknown:

teach you lessons in terms of, of self reflection, and

Unknown:

retrospect and looking and trying to figure you know,

Unknown:

digging deeper into into self awareness, for whatever comes up

Unknown:

in the future for you. I mean, it's just lessons learned,

Unknown:

right?

Nicole York:

Yeah, absolutely. So we've had some really

Nicole York:

fantastic insight so far, into what this process can look like,

Nicole York:

and into some of the red flags that we can be looking for, that

Nicole York:

will help signal to us that something needs to change,

Nicole York:

things like resenting something or someone or situation, if we

Nicole York:

have that resentment going on, that's a red flag. We want to be

Nicole York:

seeing if there's something that can be changed, or like Cat

Nicole York:

said, if we're tolerating something that we should not be

Nicole York:

tolerating, we want to be doing those check ins, like Matt

Nicole York:

mentioned, checking in with ourselves to see if we're okay.

Nicole York:

And if we're still happy, and if everything is still working for

Nicole York:

us. And we want to be asking ourselves those questions

Nicole York:

regularly before things go catastrophic.

Unknown:

cynicism. Yeah, when you're cynical, cynicism is

Unknown:

another another red flag, right? When you become cynical about

Unknown:

things that you're living, right.

Nicole York:

Oh, that's a really good one. But some, absolutely.

Nicole York:

So let's put that in there with emotions that crop up these

Nicole York:

emotions that negatively affect us when they crop up. They're

Nicole York:

not bad emotions, right? They don't feel good. But they're

Nicole York:

warning signs. So cynicism. That's a great one also. And

Nicole York:

then making sure that we're also not having to convince ourselves

Nicole York:

over the long term, sometimes we're in a season, and being

Nicole York:

able to reconnect, as we talked about before with that inner

Nicole York:

motivation in our why helps gets us helps to get us through that

Nicole York:

season. But when the season doesn't end, and we have to keep

Nicole York:

convincing ourselves to pick up the thing every day. And it will

Nicole York:

get harder and harder to continue to convince yourself.

Nicole York:

That's a sign also to resentment and cynicism. Let's add apathy.

Nicole York:

If we get to the point where we're legitimately apathetic

Nicole York:

about the outcome of what we're doing, or the thing that we're

Nicole York:

doing for a long term, that's also a really good sign that

Nicole York:

you're not where you're supposed to be. Because you should be

Nicole York:

caring. So we've talked about all those things, the difficulty

Nicole York:

in where our identities that and sometimes the fact that we know

Nicole York:

we're gonna grieve over losing or walking away from the

Nicole York:

circumstances that we're in, or the person we believe that we've

Nicole York:

become, how that can stop us from chasing down those, those

Nicole York:

new paths, and how we need to have clarity on what it is that

Nicole York:

actually causes us to want the thing or how we identify who we

Nicole York:

are, and how that can help us maybe move forward into the next

Nicole York:

thing, recognizing that we're not necessarily losing anything,

Nicole York:

per se, unless it's a bad thing we really do want to cut off,

Nicole York:

but we're just evolving into the next aspect of who we are. So

Nicole York:

that's where we're at so far with this idea of quitting. And

Nicole York:

now we want to bring in our friends from the audience. So we

Nicole York:

have Carolyn Erica, with us. If there's anybody else in the

Nicole York:

audience today, who feels like you have something to put into

Nicole York:

this conversation. We really want to hear from you. So please

Nicole York:

raise your hand and we'll bring you up. Let's start with Carol.

Nicole York:

So what are your thoughts around this whole idea, Carol?

Carol Gonzales:

Well, I think if I can turn it around from

Carol Gonzales:

quitting and losing into what I want in place, and what really

Carol Gonzales:

further that idea is what besom just said, I'm always amazed

Carol Gonzales:

when I think everything's been said. And then besar comes in

Carol Gonzales:

with, well, you know, really good thing. But yeah, the

Carol Gonzales:

clarity of place, who is that? That person? What is that place

Carol Gonzales:

look like. And I think that is why it was so relevant to me, in

Carol Gonzales:

what has been keeping me kind of spinning my wheels and stuck,

Carol Gonzales:

because I don't know what that will look like, what it is, this

Carol Gonzales:

next phase, you know, and not having the security of knowing

Carol Gonzales:

is makes the changes so much harder. And I, I have like a

Carol Gonzales:

quick, perfect example, I used to go through magazines, and

Carol Gonzales:

only like those they had really high quality, really vibrant

Carol Gonzales:

paper are great for collage. And so I have a bunch of those,

Carol Gonzales:

probably more than what I need. But I also had a bunch of

Carol Gonzales:

magazines I wanted to get rid of. And I knew I couldn't just

Carol Gonzales:

get rid of them. I mean, I didn't anyway, with my with my

Carol Gonzales:

limited thinking or vision about the future, I guess. And I had

Carol Gonzales:

to go through hundreds of magazines. And now I have all

Carol Gonzales:

these wonderful pieces of paper that I probably will never get

Carol Gonzales:

to all of them. But I'm staying spinning my wheels in that one

Carol Gonzales:

spot. And so it was so cool what besom said, because I realized,

Carol Gonzales:

okay, I need to be able to envision, but rather than

Carol Gonzales:

quitting and losing, it's easier for me to think in terms of what

Carol Gonzales:

I want. You know, it makes it so much easier to, to thin out and

Carol Gonzales:

figure out you know what I mean? What it is I want to do and and

Carol Gonzales:

rather than feel like, wow, I spent all this time in my life

Carol Gonzales:

doing whatever. Now I have to go through it all rather than all

Carol Gonzales:

of that. What is it I do want, get clarity of focus there. And

Carol Gonzales:

I think it will really help me to have this vision of what, who

Carol Gonzales:

I am what I want it to look like and what from my past I want to

Carol Gonzales:

take and what I'm I want to leave behind rather than what

Carol Gonzales:

I'm losing or when I'm quitting, because those do definitely have

Carol Gonzales:

those fear of missing out negative connotations. For me

Carol Gonzales:

anyway. So anyway, thanks so much I'm done.

Nicole York:

I think that was a really great observation, Carol,

Nicole York:

and a really fantastic example of the mental reframing that

Nicole York:

we've talked about so many times, because I think you're

Nicole York:

right, there are absolutely ways that we can take these, these

Nicole York:

words that we use, that have these negative connotations that

Nicole York:

can actually make it even more difficult to move forward with

Nicole York:

the thing. Like Becca was saying earlier, the way that quitting

Nicole York:

just has this really negative connotation for her. We can take

Nicole York:

that and we can flip things around and use it in the through

Nicole York:

the lens of well, what are we gaining? What are we moving

Nicole York:

towards? Not always necessarily what we're moving away from? But

Nicole York:

what are we moving towards? And of course, by its very

Nicole York:

definition, in order to move toward a thing, we have to move

Nicole York:

away from another thing. But instead of I've heard people say

Nicole York:

this at weddings, I'm not losing a son, I'm gaining a daughter,

Nicole York:

right? So we can we can absolutely kind of reframe this

Nicole York:

whole, this whole idea based on what our circumstances are into

Nicole York:

a way of asking ourselves, what are we what we're going to gain,

Nicole York:

I'm not going to lose taking family portraits, I'm going to

Nicole York:

gain more freedom and creativity when I do this. So I really

Nicole York:

really like your idea to be able to frame it that way. I think

Nicole York:

that will be helpful to a lot of people. Erica would love to hear

Nicole York:

from you as also. Hello, my lovely.

Erika:

Good morning. You have just sealed the deal on the

Erika:

thought that if you wait long enough, something's going to be

Erika:

said that a thought that you have will be said by somebody

Erika:

else. What I was thinking was exactly in line with what Carol

Erika:

was saying that you know, anytime I am thinking about

Erika:

quitting something or changing something, I always try to look

Erika:

at what am I missing out on by not quitting? What am I losing

Erika:

by not quitting and that may be joy. That may be time that may

Erika:

be money. I'm actually going through something today that is

Erika:

a perfect example. I have an entire room in my studio

Erika:

dedicated to newborn photography. I think I it has

Erika:

been eight months since I've done a newborn session and I'm

Erika:

like that is valuable space. I need to To seal the deal, I'm

Erika:

not doing newborn's anymore. You know, change that space over

Erika:

and, and quit and quit that because I need that space, I

Erika:

need that space for something else. So it's just a matter of

Erika:

taking a look at what you're losing out on by not quitting.

Nicole York:

Oh, that's a really fantastic question for us to ask

Nicole York:

ourselves. I love that as well. Because it is I mean, we've

Nicole York:

we've got opportunity costs, right? Like we've got lost

Nicole York:

opportunity cost there that are inherent in the things that we

Nicole York:

do, when we choose to do a thing, we're choosing not to do

Nicole York:

another thing. And that may be something that's more aligned

Nicole York:

with what we want. So I love that I love that really

Nicole York:

fantastic stuff, Carolyn, Erica, I love being able to add that to

Nicole York:

this conversation. And so as we start to near the end of our

Nicole York:

hour, I want to share a little bit about my story in the hopes

Nicole York:

that maybe that will help people see this as an example that kind

Nicole York:

of clarifies this process, and some additional things that we

Nicole York:

might be able to add to our toolbox here. So I first started

Nicole York:

photography, God, 13 years ago, almost 14 years ago now. And of

Nicole York:

course, I had not, at that time, I was I've been I've been a

Nicole York:

creative person, since I was tiny. I was writing and painting

Nicole York:

and drawing and all of these things. And I never lost any of

Nicole York:

that I was an actress for a while, locally, you know, in

Nicole York:

theater things. And that's what I was gonna go to college for,

Nicole York:

actually, before I joined the military, which is a whole story

Nicole York:

in and of itself. But there were all of these artistic things in

Nicole York:

my life. And a friend suggested photography. And this was right

Nicole York:

at the beginning of digital really picking up steam and

Nicole York:

actually being quality, where everybody was moving in. And so

Nicole York:

there was not a whole lot of education there. There were some

Nicole York:

online photo communities, but education really didn't exist in

Nicole York:

a an online in a formal sense. And so I started doing things I

Nicole York:

started learning from other people, by them giving me

Nicole York:

critique, like I started just moving forward. And then a

Nicole York:

couple years later, I started my business. And I started doing

Nicole York:

family photo shoots and weddings, babies baptisms,

Nicole York:

literally anything I could get my hands on. And as time

Nicole York:

progressed, it felt like I realized over and over again,

Nicole York:

that this is not for me, I really have no interest in

Nicole York:

shooting families. In fact, every time I do it, I'm dreading

Nicole York:

the fact that I'm about to go edit these. And it wasn't until

Nicole York:

I was unhappy enough with what I was doing. And then we moved

Nicole York:

that I had the chance to switch things up and start focusing on

Nicole York:

fashion and beauty and all of these things. I started working

Nicole York:

with brands and shooting all you know commercial stuff, and just

Nicole York:

doing all the things and then also realized that wasn't really

Nicole York:

filling my bucket either. And at that time, I had already been

Nicole York:

working on my novels on the side, I had, I had finished one,

Nicole York:

and was beginning to work on the second. And I was bouldering in

Nicole York:

the climbing gym one day and just destroyed my ankle, I fell

Nicole York:

from the top of bouldering hold fell 15 feet, my ankle went

Nicole York:

crunch, I tore every ligament down there. So I was off my feet

Nicole York:

for probably about eight weeks. And then I moved to a walking

Nicole York:

like support because my ankle was so messed up. But during

Nicole York:

that time, I had to sit and finish my second book, I had

Nicole York:

nothing else that I could do. I literally couldn't stand up and

Nicole York:

walk for very long. So I finished my second book. And I

Nicole York:

realized then how important story was, how central it was to

Nicole York:

my life. And at the point that I met now I'm recognizing that the

Nicole York:

way that I use photography is is changing even more. So I stopped

Nicole York:

taking traditional clients, I stopped the the retail side of

Nicole York:

my business as it related to people showing up to

Nicole York:

commissioned me to take portraits for them. I stopped

Nicole York:

doing that. I started adding print sales, and I started

Nicole York:

adding

Nicole York:

stock photography. So I'm working with a company and we're

Nicole York:

developing some things but I started adding that to my

Nicole York:

repertoire as well. And those things allow me to shoot what I

Nicole York:

want. They give me some side income. But the important part

Nicole York:

of that is I'm not walking away from photography, it's evolving

Nicole York:

into a new thing that is supporting my overall mission

Nicole York:

statement. And that mission statement is to tell stories,

Nicole York:

and to help other people tell stories, those those are the

Nicole York:

core thing of what I want to do. Because I believe that stories

Nicole York:

are the way that human beings make meaning of the world. So

Nicole York:

everything and anything that we want to change can be changed

Nicole York:

through telling the right story. And so I have these kind of

Nicole York:

three pillars of that mission statement that are does it help

Nicole York:

tell stories? Does it help me help other people? So is it

Nicole York:

going to assist me and helping other people tell the stories

Nicole York:

they want to tell? And does it contribute to the health,

Nicole York:

happiness and welfare of my family. So the my mission

Nicole York:

statement sits on those three pillars, and anything that

Nicole York:

fulfills all three of them, is going to be something worthwhile

Nicole York:

to add to my journey. And as soon as something starts falling

Nicole York:

off those three pillars, it's time for me to remove it. So in

Nicole York:

a way, I'm using these like a measurement system. So I can

Nicole York:

take some of my emotion out of wanting to hang on to things, as

Nicole York:

Matt said, some of that tenacity, some of that, but I

Nicole York:

might be able to use it in the future, the same way that kind

Nicole York:

of Carol has, right? You we start hoarding all of these

Nicole York:

things that we do in the hopes that they're going to be useful

Nicole York:

to us in the future. And what we're doing is really just

Nicole York:

cluttering our insides. So if it doesn't align with those three

Nicole York:

things, then I get to use those as a measuring stick that allows

Nicole York:

me to take a step back and not use my emotion when it comes to

Nicole York:

having to remove that thing that has to go now because it doesn't

Nicole York:

align with this core mission. And of course, I'll continue to

Nicole York:

check in with this core mission over time. But having that

Nicole York:

system in place, allows me to be able to function well. And when

Nicole York:

I take what I'm doing now, and I recognize, okay, photography is

Nicole York:

going to exist for me in this way, it is going to serve this

Nicole York:

purpose. Almost all the things I do are now going to serve the

Nicole York:

the novels that I write. So I'm going to continue to be creative

Nicole York:

all the way through, I'm going to continue digital art, I'm

Nicole York:

going to continue photography. But when I take a photo, I'm

Nicole York:

probably going to take a photo of a character within the world

Nicole York:

that I have built, which are pretty much endless, because

Nicole York:

it's a multiverse. But that's a, that's a whole other

Nicole York:

conversation. I'm allowing that thing to move with me and evolve

Nicole York:

with me and continue to serve that core mission statement that

Nicole York:

I have, using those three pillars as a way to measure if

Nicole York:

something is still happening. And the photography will help me

Nicole York:

serve those things, because it's helping me reach people. So they

Nicole York:

see they want to engage they like the work and bringing them

Nicole York:

in that way. I'm giving them a way to escape their lives a

Nicole York:

little bit while also continuing to help tell the stories that

Nicole York:

I'm telling. So I haven't stopped being a photographer.

Nicole York:

I've just evolved that in a new way. And like Carol mentioned,

Nicole York:

and, and Erica so aptly put as well, I'm moving toward a new

Nicole York:

vision and a new version of that, allowing that to change

Nicole York:

and have I lost things. Absolutely. When I stepped away

Nicole York:

from family photography, I had my rates as high as they had

Nicole York:

ever been, that was really great for me. But that part is gone

Nicole York:

now. And I didn't lose any of the skills. I'm taking them and

Nicole York:

I'm pulling them with me into the next thing. But it was the

Nicole York:

unhappiness and it was the unfulfilled miss. And it was the

Nicole York:

resentfulness right, all of those things that we mentioned

Nicole York:

that were real clues, that this was just not the right thing for

Nicole York:

me to be chasing. So have I been a form are lots of things. But

Nicole York:

all of those things still contribute to who I am now. I'm

Nicole York:

like a transformer. I'm just grabbing all this stuff and

Nicole York:

sticking it on and becoming something new all the time, even

Nicole York:

when I don't use those things for the original purpose that

Nicole York:

they came into my life for. And I think we can all think of

Nicole York:

ourselves that way. That even when we walk away, and even when

Nicole York:

we recognize that something is done for us, it doesn't

Nicole York:

disappear, it still leaves that imprint on who we are. And that

Nicole York:

becomes another piece of what we become, we get to choose how to

Nicole York:

use that moving forward, which makes us pretty powerful. So as

Nicole York:

we are here at the end of our hour, I want to encourage

Nicole York:

anybody else if you have any kind of closing thoughts, now is

Nicole York:

the time. And I'd love to get start that by getting final

Nicole York:

thoughts from folks on the panel today. Final thoughts on this

Nicole York:

idea of quitting? When we know how we can do it? How should we

Nicole York:

think about it? What do we do? What do you think

Nicole York:

there's the peak at once now,

Matt Stagliano:

couldn't get couldn't get to my phone fast

Matt Stagliano:

enough. There's the reason that there's the saying, you know,

Matt Stagliano:

listen to your gut, it's not going to lead you wrong. So if

Matt Stagliano:

you start feeling those feelings kicking up, listen to them.

Matt Stagliano:

Don't just push them down because of habit, or because of

Matt Stagliano:

nostalgia or because of some sense of loyalty. Listen to your

Matt Stagliano:

gut. Really start asking yourself those tough questions

Matt Stagliano:

of is this serving me? Is it bringing me joy? Is it bringing

Matt Stagliano:

me happiness? Is it getting me closer to my goals? Look at it

Matt Stagliano:

from that standpoint. Rather than wasting your time doing

Matt Stagliano:

something that you feel you should do? The hoarding

Matt Stagliano:

connection was great, Nicole, it really just stopped me in my

Matt Stagliano:

tracks when he said that. But yeah, listen to your gut. It's

Matt Stagliano:

never going to lead you wrong.

Nicole York:

agreed. Anybody else? Any other final closing

Nicole York:

thoughts?

Carol Gonzales:

I was just gonna say just to kind of solidify it

Carol Gonzales:

for myself from everything I learned here today. And that is,

Carol Gonzales:

who is that person? What do they look like? What does that place

Carol Gonzales:

look like? And also the focus on what do I want my space and time

Carol Gonzales:

to be? In the future, being able to visualize the space and time

Carol Gonzales:

and, and I think that really has held me back, you know. So

Carol Gonzales:

anyway, thanks.

Nicole York:

I love that. Carol, we ask the question all the

Nicole York:

time. What do you want your life to look like? Right? And it's,

Nicole York:

it's sometimes it can be a hard question to wrap our minds

Nicole York:

around. Because that's not a real thing yet. And so you

Nicole York:

really do have to envision you have to visualize, you have to

Nicole York:

dig deep and ask yourself if I was living the life I wanted

Nicole York:

every day. What would that look like? How do I build that? And

Nicole York:

who lives that life? You're right? What version of me is

Nicole York:

that? How do I get there? Really important questions to ask

Nicole York:

ourselves that hopefully help us get clarity on what it's going

Nicole York:

to take to move forward, what we're moving towards and what

Nicole York:

we're moving away from. So as we end this conversation on

Nicole York:

quitting, and how do we know when it's time, all of us are

Nicole York:

going to actually let me begin again, we each have built our

Nicole York:

identities around the things that we do every day, we are a

Nicole York:

mom, we are a photographer, we are rock climber, we are an

Nicole York:

author, we are founder, we are friend, we are etcetera,

Nicole York:

etcetera, we are these things, right. And then each of those

Nicole York:

pieces of identity has a lot of little branches that hang off of

Nicole York:

it. Being mom also makes me caretaker makes me show for it

Nicole York:

makes me all of these other things. Being photographer or

Nicole York:

artist also makes me Customer Service Manager and bookkeeper

Nicole York:

and all of these things. And so all of these pieces are like

Nicole York:

branches and leaves on a tree that come down to the trunk and

Nicole York:

the root of who we are. That's our identity, when it is time to

Nicole York:

cut off a branch. Because it's either become infected, or it

Nicole York:

has died, it has been damaged, it's not serving the greater

Nicole York:

pieces anymore of who we are, that piece is gone now. It can

Nicole York:

be incredibly difficult to cut that thing away. Because it has

Nicole York:

served us it has been part of our identity, it's been part of

Nicole York:

who we are, in a big way. It's like an act of surgery, it's

Nicole York:

cutting a piece of ourselves away. And we have a big aversion

Nicole York:

to doing that. Because there's a grief involved of losing that

Nicole York:

part of ourselves. And there's the pain involved of the actual

Nicole York:

excision.

Nicole York:

But we recognize that we will be healthier when that thing is

Nicole York:

gone, that removing it is going to allow new growth in its

Nicole York:

place. And that while the shape of our tree may change the core

Nicole York:

of what it is will not, we now have the opportunity to move

Nicole York:

forward into a new thing. Instead of being locked by that

Nicole York:

deadness into something we're not happy with. We may be

Nicole York:

comfortable, but we're not happy. And so we have to take

Nicole York:

the time to do those check ins and to ask ourselves, Am I

Nicole York:

happy? Am I resentful? Am I starting to become apathetic?

Nicole York:

What negative emotions are cropping up that let me know

Nicole York:

something is wrong here, we need to be able to feel that pain and

Nicole York:

be okay with that and go to the spot that is damaged, or that is

Nicole York:

dying and say, Okay, I recognize that I'm going to have some pain

Nicole York:

moving forward from this. But it needs to go in order for me to

Nicole York:

continue to thrive and be moving toward the person that I want to

Nicole York:

be. And sometimes that doesn't necessarily mean the death of a

Nicole York:

thing. Sometimes it means the evolution of a thing. It means

Nicole York:

the evolution of the whole it might mean grafting on new

Nicole York:

branches. But whatever it is, it changes us from what we used to

Nicole York:

be. But we can't let that make us fearful. Because the new

Nicole York:

thing is going to be beautiful. And our roots stay the same,

Nicole York:

even if some of the branches are going to change. And I know that

Nicole York:

seems like a really heavy metaphor for something that may

Nicole York:

literally be as simple as stopping a subscription, right,

Nicole York:

as Matt mentioned. But that subscription is a little piece

Nicole York:

that does play into our idea of who our identity is. I'm a

Nicole York:

learner. Right I'm somebody who always wants to keep learning

Nicole York:

and growing. And all of a sudden, when that's gone, what

Nicole York:

if I need it? Right? What if I needed that? So we have to be

Nicole York:

able to take the time to check in with ourselves and then

Nicole York:

envision the future that we want for ourselves, what do we want

Nicole York:

our life to look like? And how do we start taking those steps

Nicole York:

to move forward. And hopefully that will help us recognize that

Nicole York:

what we're doing isn't necessarily killing parts of

Nicole York:

ourselves, but it's taking what's important about that part

Nicole York:

and allowing it to actually thrive in a new way. Maybe I'm

Nicole York:

not a bartender anymore. And maybe I can't connect with

Nicole York:

people in the way that I could while I was a bartender, but I

Nicole York:

can take all of those skills, and I can move them into my

Nicole York:

photography, business, and be able to connect with people

Nicole York:

there and help them there. So all of these things, what's the

Nicole York:

you know, it's very much scientific, nothing is ever

Nicole York:

lost, right? That energy continues on, it just moves into

Nicole York:

a new form. So quitting doesn't have to be scary, even though it

Nicole York:

can be emotional, we can do those things, we can take the

Nicole York:

steps to move forward into the life that we want for ourselves,

Nicole York:

we just need to know what it is. And so we need to have that

Nicole York:

clarity on what it is we love about what we do and how we can

Nicole York:

take those pieces, and continue to bring us forward, bring them

Nicole York:

forward with us into the next evolution of what we become. So

Nicole York:

I hope today's conversation was helpful. I really, really love

Nicole York:

everything that everybody said today was incredibly powerful,

Nicole York:

especially knowing these past histories and what everyone has

Nicole York:

been through and the lessons that they really have learned

Nicole York:

from doing this in their own lives. And hopefully, it makes

Nicole York:

us a little less fearful and a little more powerful and a

Nicole York:

little more able to do the same thing for ourselves. So thank

Nicole York:

you to everybody who was vulnerable and shared today. And

Nicole York:

thank you to everybody who came and hung out in the audience. I

Nicole York:

hope you will come join us in the Facebook group. Becca has

Nicole York:

pinned that up at the top. We're moving faster in there every

Nicole York:

single day. I love seeing all of the interaction that's happening

Nicole York:

with this amazing community. So I hope you will come join us

Nicole York:

their podcasts are now going up every single day. You can find

Nicole York:

them in the article section of the artists Forge. com along

Nicole York:

with a summary of what that conversation included and the

Nicole York:

full transcript y'all so we have those full transcripts for you.

Nicole York:

You can go through you can read those yourself if you want to.

Nicole York:

If you find really great quotes that are meaningful, you can

Nicole York:

always copy and paste those suckers and even share them

Nicole York:

because they have name tags next to who said the thing. So if you

Nicole York:

if Assam said something amazing, which he always does, you can

Nicole York:

grab that quote in his name, and you can have that for yourself

Nicole York:

to keep as it motivates you. But I hope everything has been

Nicole York:

helpful and that you will come and join us next week, beginning

Nicole York:

at 7am Mountain Standard Time that is 6am for the West Coast

Nicole York:

and 9am for the East Coast. We will also be doing our first

Nicole York:

live stream of the month, next Thursday. So I hope you will be

Nicole York:

there for that. In the meantime, have a fantastic weekend, guys

Nicole York:

go make something amazing. And we'll see you all next week on

Nicole York:

Monday.

Matt Stagliano:

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

Matt Stagliano:

discussion moderated by all of us at the artist Forge. We hope

Matt Stagliano:

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

Matt Stagliano:

episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit

Matt Stagliano:

the artists forge.com and go make something incredible

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge

About the Podcast

Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge
How to Critique Art
Learn how mindset, creativity, and visual literacy will help you think like an artist so you can create work you love and build a career that matters; bridging the gap between technique and art.

About your host

Profile picture for Nicole York

Nicole York