Social Media for Artists: Part Three
What specific tactics can artists use to make the most of social media?
Transcript
Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being
Matt Stagliano:part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who
Matt Stagliano:help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity
Matt Stagliano:as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone
Matt Stagliano:has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need
Matt Stagliano:some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What
Matt Stagliano:you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily
Matt Stagliano:discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,
Matt Stagliano:I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit
Matt Stagliano:us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.
Nicole York:Welcome back to morning walk and photo talk with
Nicole York:the artists Forge. Super excited to be continuing on in our
Nicole York:journey towards understanding and implementing better social
Nicole York:media practices, using everybody here as just objects. Basically,
Nicole York:for the last week, we have been talking about social media, and
Nicole York:philosophies. And then moving on towards strategies and tactics.
Nicole York:Yesterday, we had a pretty good mix, I think of how we think
Nicole York:about approaching social media, from asking ourselves what our
Nicole York:business and how we want to be online, what our strengths are,
Nicole York:and what platforms might suit that well. And then talking
Nicole York:about some of the tactics that we implement when we're trying
Nicole York:to work on social media platforms. But today, I think is
Nicole York:probably the day to really get into specific tactics that we
Nicole York:use in order to achieve our goals. And since this topic this
Nicole York:week, is one that Matt is driving, I'm gonna sit back and
Nicole York:yank you into the driver's seat one more time, sir, and hope
Nicole York:that you got some sleep last night.
Matt Stagliano:Yes, we've been talking about social media for
Matt Stagliano:the past couple of days. And it's easy to have the same
Matt Stagliano:conversation over and over and over again. But like I've
Matt Stagliano:repeated before, and for those of you that are joining Now,
Matt Stagliano:that may or may not have been here the past couple of days,
Matt Stagliano:the point being there's no right or wrong way to do this. There's
Matt Stagliano:no shortage of gurus out there to tell you how to do social
Matt Stagliano:media correctly. But quite frankly, no one knows your
Matt Stagliano:business or your world better than you. And the thing that we
Matt Stagliano:need to focus on, and we've mentioned this over the past
Matt Stagliano:couple of days is how does your audience think? What is it that
Matt Stagliano:they're looking for from you? How do you provide that
Matt Stagliano:solution? How do you provide that value? How do you promote
Matt Stagliano:yourself without feeling icky? Right? How do you push your
Matt Stagliano:product or your art, or your writing or whatever the thing
Matt Stagliano:is, and promote it and get the results that you're looking for
Matt Stagliano:now the results are whatever your intention is? Are you
Matt Stagliano:looking for a little bit of notoriety? Or you're looking for
Matt Stagliano:followers? Are you looking to promote someone else? Are you
Matt Stagliano:looking for collaborations or to grow your business so that
Matt Stagliano:you're an influencer? Like, what is the intention that you have
Matt Stagliano:with your social media, you always need to start there. So
Matt Stagliano:one of the things that I have been doing lately is really
Matt Stagliano:focusing on my messaging. Now, I think it was DC a couple of days
Matt Stagliano:ago, Derek who had mentioned story brand, right? And we
Matt Stagliano:talked about the story that you tell to your clients, your
Matt Stagliano:customers, your you know, whoever it is that you're you're
Matt Stagliano:aiming at how clear is your message, because without a clear
Matt Stagliano:message, and without a story framework to follow, you're
Matt Stagliano:going to be throwing darts at a dartboard when you're putting up
Matt Stagliano:your posts on whatever platform that is whether it's Twitter or
Matt Stagliano:Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, whatever. So having that clear
Matt Stagliano:message is something that gives you a I guess, a center point
Matt Stagliano:for you to spew all of your your social posts from that one
Matt Stagliano:center from that one message. So for example, if I'm a
Matt Stagliano:landscaper, and I go out there and say you know we cut the best
Matt Stagliano:lawns ever and you're really going to love your lawn and our
Matt Stagliano:lawn mowers are fantastic. Well, you're not saying really what
Matt Stagliano:you do. You can say something along the lines of our service
Matt Stagliano:gives you
Matt Stagliano:lawns that make your neighbor jealous. Right? And here is
Matt Stagliano:something where I immediately know what you do. I know the
Matt Stagliano:emotion that it connects you solves your problem. You want to
Matt Stagliano:make Harry next door feel bad about his lawn and jealous about
Matt Stagliano:your lawn. Right you you Mix up the emotion you go through the
Matt Stagliano:we mentioned the story brand framework, but it's basically,
Matt Stagliano:you know, Campbell's Hero's Journey framework. When you
Matt Stagliano:develop a message that is clear and concise, you can now drive
Matt Stagliano:all of your social media, all of your blog posts all of your
Matt Stagliano:outward facing content, to follow the same framework and
Matt Stagliano:have the same message and just reinforce that over and over and
Matt Stagliano:over. So instead of talking like yesterday, like we did about
Matt Stagliano:tools, and strategies and tactics, today, I wanted to talk
Matt Stagliano:a little bit more about the story aspect, we've talked about
Matt Stagliano:storytelling in this group, for months and the importance of it
Matt Stagliano:in our work, what I'd love to do is hear from people make this
Matt Stagliano:pretty interactive with the moderators here and the
Matt Stagliano:panelists. And then towards the end of the call, really start
Matt Stagliano:talking to the audience about how you develop your message.
Matt Stagliano:Now, it's easy to fall into, well, I do this, and I put this
Matt Stagliano:for SEO, and I use these keywords, and I write these
Matt Stagliano:blogs. Again, that's the tactical side of things. I want
Matt Stagliano:to know how you, Nicole, cat, Assam, Becca, convert how you
Matt Stagliano:feel about your art, into a story that you can tell your
Matt Stagliano:clients and customers about what you do, and how you solve their
Matt Stagliano:problem. Why do they want to be a consumer of your artwork? What
Matt Stagliano:is the message that you put out there, and I wanted to kind of
Matt Stagliano:frame this loosely, because I know it's gonna go to a bunch of
Matt Stagliano:different places. But I wanted to talk about how you involve
Matt Stagliano:your personality, how you think about your product, in the
Matt Stagliano:context of the entire art world, I want you to think about your
Matt Stagliano:your product in the context of how it helps people and how it
Matt Stagliano:serves people. So with that in mind, Nicole, if you will allow
Matt Stagliano:me, can we talk a little bit about story in social media?
Nicole York:Yes, sir. I think this is a really fantastic
Nicole York:avenue to take to look at social media. Because like we said, at
Nicole York:the end of our talk yesterday, we have to remember that we're
Nicole York:speaking to people. And I know I've beaten this over the head
Nicole York:over the last man, we're getting starting to get close to a year
Nicole York:here. I know I beat this topic over the head. But story is the
Nicole York:way that people think, and the way we make meaning, and the way
Nicole York:we build empathy. It's one of the most important tools we
Nicole York:have, not only as human beings, but as makers of art. And so
Nicole York:being able to put story into your brand, is going to do so
Nicole York:many things for your ability to connect with other people to
Nicole York:connect with their pain points to let them know what they can
Nicole York:expect from you all the good stuff that Matt mentioned. And I
Nicole York:think in order to first move into that space, the first thing
Nicole York:we have to ask ourselves is, is the business our brand, or are
Nicole York:we our brand. And the reason that's important is because it's
Nicole York:going to shape the kinds of stories that we tell. So if I am
Nicole York:my brand, then that takes me down the path of it's my
Nicole York:personality, it's who I am. It's my experiences in life, it's my
Nicole York:sense of humor, it's my sense of wonder, it's whatever it is
Nicole York:about me, that connects with people that will make them want
Nicole York:to come back and engage with the things that I do. And we are
Nicole York:seeing this grow more and more as a possibility. Whereas in the
Nicole York:past 150 or so years, it has been the business that people
Nicole York:interact with, and the practical things that they could get from
Nicole York:that business. Right now, more and more often, people are
Nicole York:building platforms for themselves, and then amassing a
Nicole York:group of people who connect with them. And then those people out
Nicole York:of those folks, that captive audience, you now have the
Nicole York:people who like you enough to want to engage with the things
Nicole York:that you do. So that is one avenue for storytelling that we
Nicole York:can take. And if we decide to take that story telling route,
Nicole York:then we have to recognize the fact that the brand rests on our
Nicole York:shoulders. And we now have the task of telling stories that
Nicole York:help people relate to us, as human beings, as makers of art,
Nicole York:as parents as rock climbers as whoever we are. Those stories
Nicole York:then get centered around those things, and the way that the
Nicole York:audience interacts with you. So I actually just asked people,
Nicole York:you had a great question, Matt, you know, how do we figure out
Nicole York:why people are showing up and personally I just asked them one
Nicole York:day just to Facebook, not on Instagram, which I should do at
Nicole York:some point for Instagram as well but I just asked them Why are
Nicole York:you guys here? Like what keeps you coming back to hang out on
Nicole York:Facebook with me, like, Why do you keep coming? And the
Nicole York:overwhelming answer was creativity. Some people said,
Nicole York:you know, I showed up for your photography. And some people
Nicole York:said, well, you're my cousin. So that's just how it goes. But the
Nicole York:majority of answers were actually just creativity. They,
Nicole York:you know, they showed up because they believe I'm a creative
Nicole York:person, and maybe they find that inspiring. And so hopefully,
Nicole York:that means I'm inspiring them to be creative as well, which was
Nicole York:not the answer I expected. But it gave me a really good insight
Nicole York:into the fact that most folks are not showing up for
Nicole York:photography, or for my books in general. They may be getting
Nicole York:those things as like a sideline and enjoying those things. But
Nicole York:mostly they're showing up for me, which is an interesting
Nicole York:place to be because I never built that with intention. I
Nicole York:simply fell into it. I don't know if the answer is true there
Nicole York:for Instagram, I'd have to find out. But that's one avenue we
Nicole York:can take for storytelling. The other one is the brand, itself,
Nicole York:the company, the business is the story. And what the business
Nicole York:offers is the story. And then I think we have to ask ourselves,
Nicole York:you know, what is it that people are going to get? What is my
Nicole York:goal for folks? And then how can I help relate that to them
Nicole York:through a story. And I did post a link in the Facebook group.
Nicole York:I have been really terrible about linking the Facebook
Nicole York:group, maybe somebody can help me out there, since I'm walking,
Nicole York:but I posted a link in the Facebook group, to a video that
Nicole York:kind of breaks down the story brand ethos. So you can see the
Nicole York:way that they are building these brand stories. And you have to
Nicole York:think of your your potential customer, your ideal customer as
Nicole York:a character in a story. And they have a call to action, they have
Nicole York:a problem that needs to get solved. And your business is the
Nicole York:person who's going to solve that for them. So you can think of
Nicole York:you know that the person as Bilbo Baggins and your company
Nicole York:as Gandalf and you are going to give them a call to action with
Nicole York:a solution to their problem. That's going to make everything
Nicole York:right in their lives. So go check that out. But it basically
Nicole York:means that we're diverging here. And we have a decision to make
Nicole York:people who are spending their time you know, making videos on
Nicole York:YouTube to grow their platform, who are doing things on tick
Nicole York:tock, specifically related to them, and not necessarily their
Nicole York:business, are moving into a space where storytelling needs
Nicole York:to be based around who they are as people, what their interests
Nicole York:are, et cetera, et cetera. A lot of YouTubers have done this. On
Nicole York:the other part, on the other path, we have the brand the
Nicole York:company as the vehicle for telling these stories. And then
Nicole York:that changes because now you're looking at it from a brand
Nicole York:perspective, from what customers are going to get from you. And
Nicole York:you have to put yourself in the position of the customer and ask
Nicole York:yourself, what makes this product experience etc.
Nicole York:Different from the rest of the pack? And how can I frame that
Nicole York:so that people understand what they're going to be getting from
Nicole York:me and anybody who follows Sue Bryce will remember she has
Nicole York:said, I'm going to take the best portrait of yourself you've ever
Nicole York:seen. Okay, that is like a value proposition right there. So you
Nicole York:have to know that in order to tell a story about it. First,
Nicole York:Kat has talked about building legacy. Becca has talked about
Nicole York:bringing ideas to life. So you really need to understand what
Nicole York:it is that people are getting from your business that they're
Nicole York:not getting from other places. And that becomes the goal of the
Nicole York:character in your story and what they're going to get from you.
Nicole York:So that's it from me.
Matt Stagliano:And I think it's important to talk about
Matt Stagliano:frameworks a little bit. And you know, storytelling, because
Matt Stagliano:there's a lot of different methods out there, right story
Matt Stagliano:brand is the one that I've generally latched on to. I like
Matt Stagliano:the hero's journey, I like being able to insert someone into my
Matt Stagliano:story and have them go through and emotionally feel what it
Matt Stagliano:will be like to experience a photoshoot in the studio, right?
Matt Stagliano:So I like taking them through the story brand framework. And
Matt Stagliano:it's something that I've done for a couple of years. I love
Matt Stagliano:that storytelling aspect. But it doesn't necessarily mean that
Matt Stagliano:you have to subscribe to that. There's a several other
Matt Stagliano:different frameworks out there. There's the AIDA framework, the
Matt Stagliano:AI da, which is basically attention Interest, Desire
Matt Stagliano:action framework. And this is more for think about landing
Matt Stagliano:pages how you want to get people into a campaign, right? So you
Matt Stagliano:want to grab their attention. You want to make it interesting
Matt Stagliano:for them. You want to tap into their desire and you want to
Matt Stagliano:call them to action of some sort. So that's the AI da
Matt Stagliano:framework, and I can go through an example of that in a minute,
Matt Stagliano:and then there's also the problem agitate solution or the
Matt Stagliano:pa s framework. And that is great for coming up with new
Matt Stagliano:marketing copy ideas, right, you've got a problem, you want
Matt Stagliano:to agitate it. And then you provide the solution, you want
Matt Stagliano:to provide something that helps get that customer from A to B.
Matt Stagliano:So there's a million different ways out there to do stuff like
Matt Stagliano:this. Those are some very time tested, the pa s and the AI da
Matt Stagliano:are very time tested, marketing, copy driving sort of frameworks,
Matt Stagliano:the story brand framework brings in more of you as the guide in
Matt Stagliano:this hero's journey. And it's the same approach with a
Matt Stagliano:slightly different twist. So I just wanted to put that all out
Matt Stagliano:there, because there is no again, one right or wrong way to
Matt Stagliano:do this, there's a million ways to come to tell your story and
Matt Stagliano:to come up with solutions for your customers. So have any of
Matt Stagliano:you and I'll just kind of toss this out there before I get into
Matt Stagliano:it and keep the conversation from being just me. But Have any
Matt Stagliano:of you used any frameworks besides, you know, storytelling,
Matt Stagliano:or Campbell theory or anything like that? Have you used any of
Matt Stagliano:the PS frameworks or the AI da? Have you even heard of them
Matt Stagliano:before? And I'll just kind of toss that out there.
Cat Ford-Coates:I can officially say that, I have no
Cat Ford-Coates:idea what you're saying.
Nicole York:Okay, I have but not for myself. So I have used
Nicole York:those things when working for other companies. And I have to
Nicole York:say, I think what you said Matt is true and so interesting. But
Nicole York:ultimately, the funny thing about it is, we are basically
Nicole York:looking at the same thing in different packaging in order to
Nicole York:help us understand the process. And what I mean by that is, even
Nicole York:when we're using ita or pass, we're still actually telling
Nicole York:stories, but we're just giving ourselves step by step
Nicole York:instructions for what we should be doing for each step. And it's
Nicole York:just different ways of conceptualizing the same thing.
Nicole York:And when you look at, let's just think about commercials for a
Nicole York:second, all commercials are trying to tell a story. This is
Nicole York:what happy people look like when they're drinking Coke at the
Nicole York:beach. And you could be this person, right? This is what a
Nicole York:depressed person looks like, when they're not able to see
Nicole York:their doctor and can't have medication. And you might be
Nicole York:this person. Look, don't you identify here, you can get that
Nicole York:problem fixed like these, these things are all stories. But the
Nicole York:question of how we approach them. And what makes the most
Nicole York:sense to us, often determines which one we follow. Because
Nicole York:giving a problem and a conflict. And a solution is a story. In
Nicole York:and of itself, we just ask ourselves, like which one of
Nicole York:these things resonates with me the most, so that it can make me
Nicole York:effective at putting the information out there. And I
Nicole York:found, I found that all of them work really well. As long as you
Nicole York:are setting up a problem and solution and addressing a pain
Nicole York:point with enough accuracy to that audience. And then giving
Nicole York:them away, giving them some kind of action, click here, go there,
Nicole York:all that kind of stuff. But it does. I think that does also
Nicole York:make a difference between when you're actually running a
Nicole York:campaign you need people to respond to and when your
Nicole York:marketing is purely introductory top of mind, or or things like
Nicole York:that. So I think they all absolutely work. At the end of
Nicole York:the day. We're still telling stories. But what we're trying
Nicole York:to get folks to do might be different depending on what
Nicole York:we're actually putting out if it's remember me get engaged
Nicole York:with my brand. Versus now it is time to take action. Here's
Nicole York:something you can go do
Matt Stagliano:about it. Yep. And you know, I last thing I
Matt Stagliano:want to do, I felt the the panic and the disconnection in cats
Matt Stagliano:voice a second ago. And two, I don't I don't want to drive
Matt Stagliano:anyone away with this. I just think you know, as we talk so
Matt Stagliano:much about story and creativity and Nicole, everything that
Matt Stagliano:you're just saying is spot on. I took it upon myself to write a
Matt Stagliano:couple of examples because I'm not going to just throw this out
Matt Stagliano:there and not kind of connected back to what you can do. So,
Matt Stagliano:example I'm prepping man, I do my do my homework. So I'll be at
Matt Stagliano:it was at 837 this morning, but I'll I'll go with it. So the pa
Matt Stagliano:s framework is something really simple. I wrote it out for the
Matt Stagliano:artists Forge. Take a listen to this. See what you think. The
Matt Stagliano:problem? You want to be a better artist but you don't know where
Matt Stagliano:to start. The agitation. The artist Forge is the place for
Matt Stagliano:creatives of all kinds We're here to help artists and writers
Matt Stagliano:and anyone who wants to improve their creative skills by giving
Matt Stagliano:them access to our community of like minded people that can
Matt Stagliano:provide insight on how they too, can become a better Creator. The
Matt Stagliano:solution, this is where we come in our goal at the artists Forge
Matt Stagliano:is simple. We want you to think like an artist so that your
Matt Stagliano:creations are as great as they can possibly be. Whether you
Matt Stagliano:need advice, or just someone else with whom you connect, this
Matt Stagliano:site will serve as a meeting point for those people looking
Matt Stagliano:for inspiration from others, and those willing to give it out
Matt Stagliano:freely. There's an example of the pa s framework. And I think
Matt Stagliano:I got a million I wrote out like five or six of them. So that is
Matt Stagliano:the thing that draws you in, you create the problem or you
Matt Stagliano:identify the problem. You agitate it a little bit you you
Matt Stagliano:dig into that emotional side, and then you provide the
Matt Stagliano:solution. Why do people want to get involved with you? Right?
Matt Stagliano:And so that looks at it from the artist forward perspective, the
Matt Stagliano:artists forge perspective, but you can apply that to yourself,
Matt Stagliano:start thinking about what some of those problems statements
Matt Stagliano:might be in, start there. Right. So other problem statements that
Matt Stagliano:I wrote out, while I was kind of brainstorming was, creativity is
Matt Stagliano:a skill that everyone should develop. Unfortunately, we don't
Matt Stagliano:all get the same opportunities to learn and practice it.
Matt Stagliano:There's a problem. The agitation is the artists forge was created
Matt Stagliano:so that anyone can access resources on how to be creative.
Matt Stagliano:We want you to understand why creativity is important for your
Matt Stagliano:life, business or organization by having conversations with us
Matt Stagliano:about the topic. And then the solution is our blog offers
Matt Stagliano:practical advice on being more creative in everyday solutions,
Matt Stagliano:as well as tips for specific mediums like painting or drawing
Matt Stagliano:or photography. If you have any questions about any aspect of
Matt Stagliano:art, feel free to reach out to us via our contact page and
Matt Stagliano:social media channel. You're providing solutions to the
Matt Stagliano:problem that the person has, rather than just saying, look
Matt Stagliano:upon my pretty picture and be wonder it'd be in a state of
Matt Stagliano:wonder, like look upon it and fear me have a problem, identify
Matt Stagliano:the road to get to the solution, provide the solution. Does that
Matt Stagliano:all make sense?
Nicole York:I feel like you just called me out right there.
Nicole York:Oh, go look upon the picture and fear doesn't get anywhere, but
Nicole York:it feels really powerful. No, that was that was a beautiful,
Nicole York:beautiful explanation that so called out that's okay.
Matt Stagliano:I'm sorry, wasn't trying to call you out.
Matt Stagliano:So there's the ITA framework as well. And I'm just going to give
Matt Stagliano:you a couple of examples of those because I wrote those as
Matt Stagliano:well. And then I don't want to put my hard work to just cast it
Matt Stagliano:aside. So I'm going to force you all to listen to it. So the AI
Matt Stagliano:da ita framework. It's an old marketing framework. And this is
Matt Stagliano:just to give you more examples of how you can apply this to
Matt Stagliano:your business. So for example, again, it's grabbing attention.
Matt Stagliano:It's driving interest driving desire, calling to action. So
Matt Stagliano:for the attention statement, it might be something like, are you
Matt Stagliano:looking for a creative outlet? Well, yes, I am. So the interest
Matt Stagliano:would be we're helping you to we are here to help you find your
Matt Stagliano:inner artist, we believe that everyone has the ability to
Matt Stagliano:create something great, but it takes some guidance and
Matt Stagliano:inspiration along the way. The artists Forge is an online
Matt Stagliano:community of people who want to discuss all aspects of
Matt Stagliano:creativity with others in order to learn more about themselves
Matt Stagliano:and their own abilities. It's not just about painting or
Matt Stagliano:drawing, we're talking about everything from music and
Matt Stagliano:composition to poetry and furniture and meals and
Matt Stagliano:photography in anything that helps us create and express
Matt Stagliano:ourselves creatively. You can join our discussion by
Matt Stagliano:subscribing or joining the Facebook group. Now the desire
Matt Stagliano:part of it is subscribe now, so you don't miss out on any
Matt Stagliano:opportunities for self discovery through creativity. Our members
Matt Stagliano:have already found ways that they can use their skills in new
Matt Stagliano:ways that they've never thought possible before by joining our
Matt Stagliano:group. Join today and start creating something amazing. And
Matt Stagliano:then the action is click this right now and subscribe to the
Matt Stagliano:artist Ford Facebook group. So you don't miss out on any
Matt Stagliano:opportunities for self discovery through creativity. That's
Matt Stagliano:something that you can put together for a landing page for
Matt Stagliano:an ad, write anything that you want to run on Google ads or
Matt Stagliano:Facebook ads or wherever you put out these calls to action. It's
Matt Stagliano:a different type of framework. It's a little bit longer than
Matt Stagliano:the pause framework, but it drives that interest. It drives
Matt Stagliano:that that energy and the emotion for the consumer to come back to
Matt Stagliano:you because you're solving the problem for them. You're driving
Matt Stagliano:them to action. So that's just an example of that. Start
Matt Stagliano:thinking about it. How your story could be told in this way.
Matt Stagliano:Right? And I'll be the first to admit I don't do this for every
Matt Stagliano:single post that I do. But writing a statement like this,
Matt Stagliano:whether it's story brand, or pause, or Aida, any one of those
Matt Stagliano:is going to give you a center point from which you can drive
Matt Stagliano:the rest of your story. And, you know, having, I think, Nicole,
Matt Stagliano:was it you that said, you know, the tributaries off the Big
Matt Stagliano:Muddy River, right? And if as long as you have that center
Matt Stagliano:point, that you can drive all these spokes to different
Matt Stagliano:platforms. Now you can massage your message into whatever that
Matt Stagliano:platform needs. Again, it's knowing your audience, it's
Matt Stagliano:knowing who's on Facebook, or Instagram or Pinterest,
Matt Stagliano:understand who they are, and what messaging they need to
Matt Stagliano:hear. And you can drive your message and redirect it to that
Matt Stagliano:audience. Does that make sense?
Nicole York:Yes, it does. Indeed, it does.
Matt Stagliano:So with that, I'd love to hear now, again, no
Matt Stagliano:right or wrong, just some things that I was thinking about? Do
Matt Stagliano:you guys want to give any specific examples as to how
Matt Stagliano:you've used story in your business, whether it's a you
Matt Stagliano:know, case study, or one time I did this? I'd love to hear from
Matt Stagliano:you guys, I'll toss it out to the mods.
Cat Ford-Coates:I definitely do. I think without realizing
Cat Ford-Coates:that, you know, I'm following a specific structure. But I've
Cat Ford-Coates:definitely you know, shared work and things based on purpose,
Cat Ford-Coates:right? Because you always revert to that that primary mission and
Cat Ford-Coates:find out like, okay, is this in alignment with that? And then,
Cat Ford-Coates:you know, integrate otherwise, like, Rebecca had said something
Cat Ford-Coates:in the group the other day about, you know, like
Cat Ford-Coates:collaborating with other artists. So yesterday, I threw
Cat Ford-Coates:up a thing about doing self portraits, like I do self
Cat Ford-Coates:portraits pretty regularly and was like, Okay, let's see if
Cat Ford-Coates:anybody else wants to jump on this train. And like, everybody
Cat Ford-Coates:in their mother is like, yeah, sure, let's do it. And the
Cat Ford-Coates:vision behind that really is just more like collaboration and
Cat Ford-Coates:fun, and just something outside of the box to be a part of right
Cat Ford-Coates:just to gain some IG bounce. But others might be more emotionally
Cat Ford-Coates:driven. Right, like, okay, that's fun, something to do on
Cat Ford-Coates:the sidelines. But maybe I want to book a portrait session,
Cat Ford-Coates:because like, Katie McNeil, she had a portrait made when she was
Cat Ford-Coates:like six or seven, and literally had not had another portrait
Cat Ford-Coates:until she was 63. And so she shared about like driving that
Cat Ford-Coates:home, like not existing in portraits for 55 years. Like,
Cat Ford-Coates:that's a thing, right? There is very little photographic
Cat Ford-Coates:evidence of that person's existence. And I have a similar
Cat Ford-Coates:story, but obviously not not quite the breadth of yours. But
Cat Ford-Coates:then talking about why that's valuable, why that matters. And
Cat Ford-Coates:so you're pulling on those heartstrings a little bit more.
Cat Ford-Coates:But that's typically how I lead is like, what's the emotional
Cat Ford-Coates:component? And what's the why behind the emotion. And I
Matt Stagliano:think it's really important that you
Matt Stagliano:mentioned that, that you, you know, you weren't necessarily
Matt Stagliano:aware that you're in a framework. And that's totally
Matt Stagliano:cool, right, we all do things that seem to make sense. And you
Matt Stagliano:just had some guy in a room somewhere that created a
Matt Stagliano:framework around what we all do anyway, as part of the story.
Matt Stagliano:And I think you do an incredible job, cat in a lot of your social
Matt Stagliano:media, of tapping into that, of leading with your authenticity,
Matt Stagliano:and then telling a bit of story, and then seeing if anybody will
Matt Stagliano:come along with you. And it's clear by your engagement that
Matt Stagliano:people do, and you have a really good mastery of this. And I love
Matt Stagliano:watching what you do, especially in your stories, your posts are
Matt Stagliano:great across your channels, your stories are amazing, because you
Matt Stagliano:do this great mix of pulling people in showing them your real
Matt Stagliano:life, bring them along with that journey. And people feel really
Matt Stagliano:connected to that. And that is where engagement comes from, is
Matt Stagliano:the second that people can start feeling any level of connection
Matt Stagliano:or partnership with you. They are going to be a customer or
Matt Stagliano:consumer for life. And as long as it remains authentic, which
Matt Stagliano:you do incredibly well. I think, you know, the sky's the limit
Matt Stagliano:there. So, Nicole or besom or Becca, do you ever you know,
Matt Stagliano:consider how you're putting things out? Or do you kind of
Matt Stagliano:throw stuff at a wall? I'm very guilty of throwing stuff at a
Matt Stagliano:wall often. But I wanted to hear from you guys give you guys a
Matt Stagliano:chance.
Bassam Sabbagh:Listen here. Here's the disconnect. Alright
Bassam Sabbagh:that I have and you know, everything you talked about
Bassam Sabbagh:Matt? It's incredible. It's it These are great ways to
Bassam Sabbagh:structure your approach. And I might issue and my disconnect
Bassam Sabbagh:is, is I understand it, I get it, I do it, when I do it for my
Bassam Sabbagh:website for a, let's say, if I want to do a campaign, I can do
Bassam Sabbagh:that. Where I freeze, is when it comes to social media engagement
Bassam Sabbagh:and how to actually use that stuff in the context of a quick
Bassam Sabbagh:post and a quick story. And a quick this is exactly what Kat
Bassam Sabbagh:does. And many of you do very, very well. It's an area where I
Bassam Sabbagh:do suffer from comparing myself to others. And I don't even know
Bassam Sabbagh:I actually freeze and I default to just putting my work out
Bassam Sabbagh:there and a little bit in some app that I found that does, uh,
Bassam Sabbagh:you know, brings in the pictures nicely and, and put a couple of
Bassam Sabbagh:words that everybody else uses. And I can't seem to get past
Bassam Sabbagh:that no matter how much I try, because I I don't know why.
Bassam Sabbagh:Right. So it's that I call it the duff model, which is I
Bassam Sabbagh:desire to do it, I understand how to do it, but I freeze when
Bassam Sabbagh:I try to do it. So I don't know if there's any tips and hints at
Bassam Sabbagh:how to break that. It feels like I'm stuck when it comes to short
Bassam Sabbagh:social media engagement. Right? And it's just the basics. I
Bassam Sabbagh:mean, I find that everything I come up with everybody's using,
Bassam Sabbagh:this is nothing creative about it. There's nothing different.
Bassam Sabbagh:There's nothing that's me about it. And when I think about what
Bassam Sabbagh:is what am I and how can I? How can I put that out there in
Bassam Sabbagh:little snippets and continuous in a continuous, consistent
Bassam Sabbagh:stories and posts, I fall apart, I need help. And I don't need
Bassam Sabbagh:help from a guru that's going to tell me to use those that I
Bassam Sabbagh:totally understand it must be something else that's holding me
Bassam Sabbagh:back. And I don't know what it is,
Matt Stagliano:you know, besides you. It's kind of like
Matt Stagliano:we were separated at birth you and I see things so much like we
Matt Stagliano:have a lot of similar kind of challenges and struggles on a
Matt Stagliano:day to day basis. And you know, what you're saying you're not
Matt Stagliano:alone with it, I struggle with it every single day of coming up
Matt Stagliano:with something and then when I can't, when I get that writer's
Matt Stagliano:block, I just don't post anything, and then insert
Matt Stagliano:inconsistency here. And now I'm not doing anything. When I look
Matt Stagliano:at your work, for example, I'm scrolling through your Instagram
Matt Stagliano:as we speak. And you've got really high engagement, right?
Matt Stagliano:You're you're you're not at a loss of likes, you're not at a
Matt Stagliano:loss of people looking at your work, you get plenty of
Matt Stagliano:followers, right, you're producing beautiful work. What I
Matt Stagliano:notice, and there's no criticism here, but what I'm noticing in
Matt Stagliano:the in the aspect of storytelling is you do an
Matt Stagliano:amazing job of showing who your client is, and raising them up
Matt Stagliano:and making them feel beautiful and crediting the artists. What
Matt Stagliano:I see is missing is the connection to the other viewer.
Matt Stagliano:Right, the calls to action? Wouldn't you love to look like
Matt Stagliano:this? Is this something that you can see with your you know, as
Matt Stagliano:you're starting your pregnancy journey? Wouldn't you want to
Matt Stagliano:capture that and playing to a little bit more of the desire in
Matt Stagliano:the interest? Right? You're clearly driving interest people
Matt Stagliano:are showing up in there. They're loving your images. But in terms
Matt Stagliano:of that engagement, it's connecting with them in keeping
Matt Stagliano:that conversation going. And you know, you did a great job
Matt Stagliano:recently about that nine month journey, the photo milestones,
Matt Stagliano:right that you that you put up and you've done an incredible
Matt Stagliano:job of showing people that the wonder of maternity. And what
Matt Stagliano:I'm not seeing in that is calling people to action to
Matt Stagliano:engage with you. And it might be just as simple as that because a
Matt Stagliano:lot of us feel icky, asking for, you know, trying to try to be
Matt Stagliano:salesy, but it has nothing to do with that. It's just Can you
Matt Stagliano:picture yourself in these types of images? If so, hey, give me a
Matt Stagliano:call. Right? It's that it's that feeling it's driving that
Matt Stagliano:interest in calling to that action. But it's difficult to do
Matt Stagliano:my my only suggestion would be go through try to develop one of
Matt Stagliano:these frameworks. And just anytime that you're feeling
Matt Stagliano:stuck, look at it and say, How can I bring people back to that?
Matt Stagliano:How can I bring people back to wanting to get in touch with me?
Matt Stagliano:Right? And again, I'm not advising you or telling you
Matt Stagliano:exactly how to do your social media. I'm just saying that's
Matt Stagliano:the component that I see missing in my own stuff. And I see it in
Matt Stagliano:in yours as well. Does that make sense?
Bassam Sabbagh:Yeah, no, actually quite a bit. Now. So
Bassam Sabbagh:you put your put your finger exactly on the on the, I guess
Bassam Sabbagh:the part in the process where I do freeze, and that is asking,
Bassam Sabbagh:asking it in a, a, in a way, that doesn't sound corny, right?
Bassam Sabbagh:Or it doesn't sound like everybody else and I'm scrolling
Bassam Sabbagh:through and looking at and they're asking it the same way
Bassam Sabbagh:that's Can I,
Nicole York:can I pop in for just a sec here? Because I think
Nicole York:we need to change that word really quick. You're not asking
Nicole York:for anything. You are offering somebody a life changing
Nicole York:experience. That's a whole different mindset to have. And
Nicole York:it's, it's, I think that's where we mess up when we look at what
Nicole York:we're doing as business people. And for those of us who are
Nicole York:artists first and business people second, and our emotions
Nicole York:are tied up with what we do, we're often feeling like, we
Nicole York:have to try to talk people into giving us something, please. So
Nicole York:can I have another like, that's not us showing up on social
Nicole York:media, we do something that is amazing. We have to change the
Nicole York:way that we think about it to recognize that we're not asking,
Nicole York:we're not begging, we're not showing up on people's doorsteps
Nicole York:and irritating them. We're literally offering people a
Nicole York:chance to do something amazing for themselves. And that
Nicole York:completely changes the whole way that we show up and you have the
Nicole York:proof of that in the way that your clients respond to what
Nicole York:they get from you, and how they have that experience. And that
Nicole York:is what you're offering people. You're not asking them for
Nicole York:anything. You're giving them a chance.
Bassam Sabbagh:Yeah, and I actually go and absolutely true.
Bassam Sabbagh:And I and I get that but I think it was more about it's more
Bassam Sabbagh:about how do I formulated in a way, it comes down to copy in a
Bassam Sabbagh:way and it being not sort of it. In other words, it. I don't want
Bassam Sabbagh:to be formal about it. But I tend to be formal when I try to
Bassam Sabbagh:do it. And I'm trying to do it in a way like I look at other
Bassam Sabbagh:people and they say wow, like that's brilliant how they just
Bassam Sabbagh:said it sounds so simple. And and and that's where I kind of
Bassam Sabbagh:stopped because I can't get to that simplicity. And that that
Bassam Sabbagh:natural language like free flowing language that everybody
Bassam Sabbagh:can just connect with. When it comes
Nicole York:here with us? Well, you know, it's just a question.
Nicole York:Sometimes it's just a question of putting somebody in your
Nicole York:head. Like, if you were going to be saying that me, if you were
Nicole York:like, cuz you do this all the time, like, Hey, Nicole, no
Nicole York:pressure, just if this is something you're interested in,
Nicole York:I'm here. Well, you know,
Bassam Sabbagh:you just proved you just proved the beauty of
Bassam Sabbagh:this group. Okay, like, we talk about things that nobody else
Bassam Sabbagh:talks about, yeah, just put somebody in your head. And
Bassam Sabbagh:that'll help you get there, there's a little tip, that's
Bassam Sabbagh:probably better than any course I bought a boat, when or read or
Bassam Sabbagh:any article, I read about this subject, put somebody in your
Bassam Sabbagh:head, you just hit it on, you just gave me one little tip that
Bassam Sabbagh:is absolutely amazing. And I'll run with it and see where that
Bassam Sabbagh:goes. On the topic, I sound like sound passionate this morning,
Bassam Sabbagh:I'm not screaming, I just got away.
Nicole York:It was great. I like it. Bring the passion, sir.
Bekka Bjorke:I just wanna say on the on the topic of asking,
Bekka Bjorke:though, I think asking things of your target audience and you
Bekka Bjorke:know, of your existing clients already is maybe a powerful step
Bekka Bjorke:towards that more casual and conversational type of
Bekka Bjorke:engagement and posting. And then we're leading kind of into
Bekka Bjorke:content marketing, like creating content that people can use to
Bekka Bjorke:inform themselves, you know, or however right. And so
Bekka Bjorke:essentially creating content based on questions and
Bekka Bjorke:conversations and quite things that you ask your clients,
Bekka Bjorke:that's gonna be valuable to future clients like things, you
Bekka Bjorke:know, they might want to know, about the process of a
Bekka Bjorke:photoshoot, you know, things they might be concerned about,
Bekka Bjorke:they want to see themselves and their concerns, their genuine,
Bekka Bjorke:you know, kind of stopping points before booking the
Bekka Bjorke:photoshoot reflected in clients who've moved past that and gone
Bekka Bjorke:through with the service, and how it's been a positive for
Bekka Bjorke:them. So I think, you know, thinking, again, as a
Bekka Bjorke:conversation, how do you have a great conversation with people,
Bekka Bjorke:you want to ask questions and get to know them? So how can you
Bekka Bjorke:do that through your social media already, you can do it in
Bekka Bjorke:your captions, you can do it in your stories, you can do it on
Bekka Bjorke:your Facebook, you can you know, reach out in ways and ask people
Bekka Bjorke:what they want to know and share that content with people so
Bekka Bjorke:they'll be more trusting and engaged with you.
Matt Stagliano:And I love what you said there, Becca? It's,
Matt Stagliano:it's asking questions, right, getting them to engage. And one
Matt Stagliano:of the most powerful ways that I've seen to do it is through
Matt Stagliano:the questions on Instagram Stories, right? If I write a lot
Matt Stagliano:on Facebook, or you know, even a paragraph on Facebook, and I
Matt Stagliano:asked someone to engage, rarely do I get someone to actually
Matt Stagliano:typed something in there. But that little friggin sticker that
Matt Stagliano:you put on a story that ask people questions, like, Oh,
Matt Stagliano:someone named cat did that said hey, I'm thinking about a
Matt Stagliano:selfie. Portrait Project anybody interested? Right? People want
Matt Stagliano:to be involved. They don't want to do heavy lifting right out of
Matt Stagliano:the gate, give them something simple and easy to engage, but
Matt Stagliano:get information from them. So everything that Becca just said
Matt Stagliano:is spot on. I find that Instagram stickers, those those
Matt Stagliano:questions, the polls, things like that give you immediate
Matt Stagliano:feedback from people because it is very lightweight for them to
Matt Stagliano:interact. So maybe that could help besom understand your, your
Matt Stagliano:viewers a little bit better right in your audience. And
Matt Stagliano:asking them some of these questions just flat out, ask
Matt Stagliano:them the questions, you don't have to be too professional
Matt Stagliano:about it. Because I suffer from the same thing that you do, I
Matt Stagliano:want that voice to be clear and professional. And that's just
Matt Stagliano:been beat into me my entire life. But letting that guard
Matt Stagliano:down a little bit being a little bit more vulnerable and
Matt Stagliano:authentic, I think you'll find people really, really resonate
Matt Stagliano:with that, especially with you because your work is so
Matt Stagliano:beautiful.
Bekka Bjorke:I do that a lot as well. And what I think is really
Bekka Bjorke:important with that, so particularly with Instagram
Bekka Bjorke:stories, I feel like the questions where people can type
Bekka Bjorke:an answer. And also the polls are really great. And polls,
Bekka Bjorke:they're super easy. Like, you know, you can even do like, you
Bekka Bjorke:know, what would you rather wear to your maternity shoot and like
Bekka Bjorke:do some, you know, create a little image with like Option A
Bekka Bjorke:and Option B and let people choose and kind of go through
Bekka Bjorke:the process of styling, a photoshoot like a, you know,
Bekka Bjorke:imaginary photoshoot. And then they can kind of envision that
Bekka Bjorke:for themselves. But if you're going with the questions, these
Bekka Bjorke:are so great, because then they go to your you can go and
Bekka Bjorke:message back. So you're moving beyond just the engagement,
Bekka Bjorke:which you know, likes and you know, follows and whatever,
Bekka Bjorke:which don't necessarily lead anywhere. And you can really
Bekka Bjorke:start nurturing a one on one relationship with people.
Nicole York:Okay, I wanted to jump in here really quick,
Nicole York:because there's something cool that's happening, and when we
Nicole York:might not realize it. I know I've mentioned this, this
Nicole York:technique before, we've talked about using content funnels,
Nicole York:right. And the basic ideas of a content funnel is the same as
Nicole York:any funnel that has a very wide mouth, that tapers down to a
Nicole York:point. And it's very easy to get into a funnel, it doesn't
Nicole York:require any effort on your part. And most of the time, these are
Nicole York:the things that we post that are not requiring anything of the
Nicole York:viewer. So when you took a senior portrait, and it was
Nicole York:beautiful, and you just posted on your Instagram and said, Hey,
Nicole York:did a great senior portrait today with this amazing senior,
Nicole York:here's my favorite shot of the day, I can't wait to share the
Nicole York:rest or whatever, right? That does not require anything of
Nicole York:anybody. It is there is an example of your work, it's top
Nicole York:of mind thing, it's going to show up in people's feeds
Nicole York:whatever, as the funnel begins to get smaller, this is when we
Nicole York:begin asking things of people. And we're asking them to engage
Nicole York:with us somehow. And these are the kinds of posts that Becca is
Nicole York:talking about, where you're now saying cool, you saw my stuff
Nicole York:and you liked it, come engage with me a little bit. And you're
Nicole York:giving them an opportunity to now put forth some effort to
Nicole York:look at your pictures cost them nothing to hit the like button
Nicole York:cost them nothing. But now you're asking them to think a
Nicole York:little bit and respond. And then once they're used to that, you
Nicole York:begin asking other things, come check out this blog posts about
Nicole York:how to choose the best dress for your maternity photos, or
Nicole York:whatever. And then all of a sudden, they're getting used to
Nicole York:seeing your work that triggers in engagement with your work and
Nicole York:engagement with your brand. And then once you've trained them to
Nicole York:expect those things from you, and they've been pushed down
Nicole York:that funnel farther. Finally, at the bottom we have, if you want
Nicole York:to be able to have a you know, Legacy portrait of yourself like
Nicole York:this, I'm running this thing, click this button, whatever. Now
Nicole York:you're getting them to commit. And the good thing about that
Nicole York:funnel is that it is a tool for winnowing out the people who
Nicole York:will not engage. So you can always be asking yourself, what
Nicole York:part of the funnel does this fall in? Am I just giving people
Nicole York:something that's helpful and interesting, that they can look
Nicole York:at and enjoy? That's the entertainment part of the
Nicole York:funnel? Am I giving people something they can learn from?
Nicole York:Am I giving them something that asks them to engage and show up
Nicole York:for me and my my brand and themselves? And then in my you
Nicole York:know, at the very bottom of the funnel? Am I now asking giving
Nicole York:them a call to action, click the thing show up at the website,
Nicole York:etc, etc. So just to just to share what framework that all
Nicole York:fits within. So if you have to ask yourself that question of
Nicole York:what am I doing with this? Well, it could be top of funnel and
Nicole York:that's fine. Just remember that eventually. We do need to have
Nicole York:posts that are in the middle of the funnel asking for more
Nicole York:engagement and in the bottom of the funnel. Ask Looking for a
Nicole York:commitment. So that might be a framework that helps some people
Nicole York:conceptualize what they're actually doing.
Matt Stagliano:I love it. I love it. Love it. Love it. Thank
Matt Stagliano:you, Nicole. I can't believe we're already at 50 minutes into
Matt Stagliano:this conversation. I could talk about this all day long. So what
Matt Stagliano:I wanted to do is open it up to the audience, if you have any,
Matt Stagliano:anything that you want to talk about in terms of story and how
Matt Stagliano:you're using it, or do you or do you not use a framework when
Matt Stagliano:you're developing your social content? Do you come back to a
Matt Stagliano:center point? Do you have any level of sales funnel that you
Matt Stagliano:loosely adhere to when you're creating or strongly adhere to
Matt Stagliano:when you're creating your posts? Do you use some of these
Matt Stagliano:techniques and engagement to connect with your audience a
Matt Stagliano:little bit more, I'd love to hear from you, all you have to
Matt Stagliano:do is raise your hand. And we'll bring you up on stage and we can
Matt Stagliano:include you in the conversation. But I absolutely love love love
Matt Stagliano:this because it inspires me to do more and think differently
Matt Stagliano:about how I'm creating my content these days, I'm mainly
Matt Stagliano:on Instagram. So I'm, I follow a lot of the same stuff that I
Matt Stagliano:have done for years, I try to post consistently at the same
Matt Stagliano:times I fail at that quite a bit. I try to come up with
Matt Stagliano:something witty or engaging, I often fail at that. And I never
Matt Stagliano:look at it like man, I suck at this. I look at it as Okay, that
Matt Stagliano:didn't work. Let me try something else. Learn from the
Matt Stagliano:failures, watch your analytics, understand what people are
Matt Stagliano:doing, weed out the content that doesn't work for you and look at
Matt Stagliano:the stuff that worked really well. And what did you do in
Matt Stagliano:those posts, whether that's Facebook or, or Instagram or
Matt Stagliano:wherever, and start to analyze your own stuff before you just
Matt Stagliano:start mixing up new content and throwing out at the wall, take a
Matt Stagliano:look back at what has performed really, really well for you and
Matt Stagliano:start to find those common threads, where you asking
Matt Stagliano:questions where you engaging them differently? Was it a style
Matt Stagliano:of photo write, what we're trying to do is find your true
Matt Stagliano:and authentic voice with your story. And continue to use that
Matt Stagliano:across all of your channels. So, you know, for me, I'm trying
Matt Stagliano:desperately to get better at it. I've said several days ago, I
Matt Stagliano:have a real loathing for social media, but I understand the
Matt Stagliano:necessity of it. And I'm trying to play the game. I'm trying to
Matt Stagliano:use it so that my business, which is the thing that I'm most
Matt Stagliano:interested in, starts to grow and gives me the lifestyle that
Matt Stagliano:I want. So for you your y may be completely different. And that's
Matt Stagliano:okay. It's just how are you approaching this in terms of
Matt Stagliano:story. So like I said, if you if you want to just raise your
Matt Stagliano:hand, we'll bring you on up. Go ahead, Nicole.
Nicole York:I just had an idea. So tomorrow, why don't we go
Nicole York:ahead and build out a story framework. Here in the group, do
Nicole York:that together, ask ourselves those questions and actually
Nicole York:walk ourselves through the process. That way, we know what
Nicole York:it looks like to figure out, okay, at the core, what are we
Nicole York:trying to do? And how does that connect to the pain point of our
Nicole York:potential customer? How can we explain it in a way? How do we
Nicole York:walk them through that process? Maybe that would be a really
Nicole York:great exercise to do here together tomorrow. So that we
Nicole York:get that experience and we have a good idea of what it looks
Nicole York:like to put into practice for ourselves next week.
Matt Stagliano:I absolutely love that idea. And we can
Matt Stagliano:choose what we want to do what framework we want to do, we can
Matt Stagliano:come up with the concept of the beginning. I love it. Love it.
Matt Stagliano:Love it. I can't wait to participate in that gene. Thanks
Matt Stagliano:for jumping up here. What's going on, man?
Gene Sizemore:Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. This
Gene Sizemore:has been a great topic. I'm learning a lot. I've recently
Gene Sizemore:been, since some of our previous conversations been trying to get
Gene Sizemore:a lot better about putting some copy with my posts, so that I'm
Gene Sizemore:not just posting and hoping people understand why I posted
Gene Sizemore:it. That's been successful. And I'm definitely trying to follow,
Gene Sizemore:you know, at least a, you know, a modified kind of internal
Gene Sizemore:framework of you know, posts something substantive post
Gene Sizemore:something meaningful. And I also really like calling out people
Gene Sizemore:that are important to me, that influenced me because I feel
Gene Sizemore:like sharing, you know what, how other people have inspired me to
Gene Sizemore:create, you know, is important because it just goes back to a
Gene Sizemore:comment I made actually I don't want to Cats posts about
Gene Sizemore:dehumanization. One of the things as I was working my
Gene Sizemore:corporate job in management, one of the things that I always
Gene Sizemore:worked really hard towards was to humanize everything,
Gene Sizemore:humanize. You know, the work that we do humanize leadership.
Gene Sizemore:But what's really sad is that sometimes you have to remind
Gene Sizemore:people to humanize people. And I think that when you share
Gene Sizemore:something substantive, and you connect with somebody, on a
Gene Sizemore:personal level, you know, you bring that, that human aspect
Gene Sizemore:back into this platform, and I like sharing, you know, calling
Gene Sizemore:out people. And actually, she's gonna be mad at me for
Gene Sizemore:embarrassing her. But somebody very, very important to me just
Gene Sizemore:joined as a listener, I won't call her out, but she was
Gene Sizemore:actually the first person on YouTube who actually called me
Gene Sizemore:out on one of her YouTube videos. And that started this
Gene Sizemore:journey for me, of recognizing and realizing how important it
Gene Sizemore:is to recognize, you know, the people that have carved out time
Gene Sizemore:for you in their world and make sure that you're carving out
Gene Sizemore:time for them in your world. And it's been fun to be able to do
Gene Sizemore:that on social media. So that's all part of my thought process.
Gene Sizemore:There's not time to really get into it. But one of the things
Gene Sizemore:that I'd like to do some research on, and hopefully we'll
Gene Sizemore:have a chance to participate tomorrow, because Nicole, I
Gene Sizemore:think that's a great idea. To get into the storytelling
Gene Sizemore:aspect. I hope everybody can can join for that. The two things
Gene Sizemore:that, that I focus a lot on when I'm doing my video work. And I
Gene Sizemore:only bring this up because I'm curious. And we'd like to spend
Gene Sizemore:some time today, looking at maybe how this might apply to my
Gene Sizemore:social media posts. massaman, I've talked a little bit about
Gene Sizemore:this, I'm fascinated by something called the story
Gene Sizemore:circle. And I'm also fascinated by the idea of a periodic table
Gene Sizemore:of story elements. Those are two things that exist out there that
Gene Sizemore:I've been trying to learn about, and figure out ways that I can
Gene Sizemore:use those tools and frameworks to apply storytelling, to the
Gene Sizemore:videos that I that I make. And then also, what I'd like to do
Gene Sizemore:is just see, you know, if there's a way to, I think those
Gene Sizemore:frameworks are, you know, intended for feature length
Gene Sizemore:films. But I'd like to see if there's elements of that that
Gene Sizemore:might be borrowed for social media to bring it, you know,
Gene Sizemore:around to what we're talking about in the room this week. So
Gene Sizemore:I'm kind of fascinated by that. I just want to bring up the
Gene Sizemore:story circle in the periodic table, because I think those are
Gene Sizemore:really cool ways of approaching storytelling framework. And one
Gene Sizemore:of the things that Assam and I talked a lot about was
Gene Sizemore:Christopher Nolan's U shaped storytelling method that he used
Gene Sizemore:in The Dark Knight series and Inception where you're, you're
Gene Sizemore:he basically tells the story simultaneously in the past and
Gene Sizemore:present in the in the movie concludes that a meeting point
Gene Sizemore:in the middle. There's a couple of really cool videos out there
Gene Sizemore:about how he does that. It's all complicated stuff for, you know,
Gene Sizemore:intended for filmmaking. But I'm fascinated by applying some of
Gene Sizemore:those principles to social media. So I'm gonna spend some
Gene Sizemore:time on that. And if I come up with anything worth sharing,
Gene Sizemore:I'll raise my hand tomorrow. But it's been a great topic this
Gene Sizemore:week. Thanks, Nicole, and everybody else.
Matt Stagliano:Awesome. Thanks, Jean. I hadn't heard of it that
Matt Stagliano:Periodic Table of story elements. But I'm going to I'm
Matt Stagliano:going to check that out. Maybe I'll talk to you offline about
Matt Stagliano:it. Any closing thoughts were here at the end of the hour,
Matt Stagliano:we've talked about story, it's been kind of esoteric today
Matt Stagliano:thinking about probably over complicating something that
Matt Stagliano:really shouldn't be that complicated. But I think with a
Matt Stagliano:little bit of effort and developing a central framework,
Matt Stagliano:a central storyline for who you are as an artist, who you are as
Matt Stagliano:a business person, what it is you're trying to get across. If
Matt Stagliano:you can develop that central storyline, now you have a really
Matt Stagliano:good understanding of the content that you're trying to
Matt Stagliano:put out. And the why behind it. Why are you putting this out?
Matt Stagliano:Why should people contact you? Why should people buy your art
Matt Stagliano:or watch your movie or read your book, any of those things,
Matt Stagliano:always starts with your why. And until you can tell that story of
Matt Stagliano:your why you can't solve the problem for your customers or
Matt Stagliano:your clients or your viewers or your fans. So trying to develop
Matt Stagliano:a story framework, whether that's anything that we talked
Matt Stagliano:about story brand, pause, Aida, any of the millions that are out
Matt Stagliano:there, start somewhere, start analyzing what your story is,
Matt Stagliano:and how you want to tell it. Then like the spokes on a wheel,
Matt Stagliano:you can drive from that hub and start to really implement that
Matt Stagliano:on all the platforms. So with that, are there any other
Matt Stagliano:closing thoughts from any of the mods before we before we shut
Matt Stagliano:down?
Bekka Bjorke:I guess I kind of tapped on this a little bit with
Bekka Bjorke:that example to besom about using polls in Instagram but I'm
Bekka Bjorke:just because I work mostly, I mean, almost exclusively on
Bekka Bjorke:commission, right? So I have to work very closely with my
Bekka Bjorke:clients and you know, develop their ideas. And then create
Bekka Bjorke:them quickly. So one way I like to kind of give a look into that
Bekka Bjorke:is to kind of invite my general audience to create with me a
Bekka Bjorke:little bit through social media. So doing things like going live,
Bekka Bjorke:and then you know, just kind of screwing around with whatever,
Bekka Bjorke:you know, fun project or experiment that I'm trying, and
Bekka Bjorke:taking their input and applying that to whatever I'm making are,
Bekka Bjorke:again, things like using polls and asking questions like, What
Bekka Bjorke:would you guys rather see. And that's going to give, you know,
Bekka Bjorke:my general audience who may or may not then be converted to
Bekka Bjorke:actual clients, look at what my creative process is like, and
Bekka Bjorke:more what it's like to actually work with me. And that's gonna
Bekka Bjorke:then you know, it, it shares with them that you know, my own
Bekka Bjorke:personal story, my own personal work ethic, my own personal
Bekka Bjorke:philosophy, and all of that. And also then lets them be involved
Bekka Bjorke:in a way without committing yet, and then drives them to trust
Bekka Bjorke:that process and want to give me money in the end. So just wanted
Bekka Bjorke:to throw that out there too.
Bassam Sabbagh:Yeah, actually, back a couple of days ago, as I
Bassam Sabbagh:was sitting on that boat, I wrote out that actual Instagram
Bassam Sabbagh:post with all the like, I wrote out the questions that I want to
Bassam Sabbagh:ask in a poll of what people would like to see more of, and
Bassam Sabbagh:then I say that I haven't posted yet I get to refine it a little
Bassam Sabbagh:bit. And the reason I say I want to refine it is not because it's
Bassam Sabbagh:pretty simple. It's just I don't want it to attract photographers
Bassam Sabbagh:only. That's really my so the way I worded it. And I couldn't
Bassam Sabbagh:post it because I don't have Wi Fi but anyways, yeah, I'm gonna,
Bassam Sabbagh:I'm gonna do that as a first step, and just ask questions
Bassam Sabbagh:like that and see where that goes and take some of the advice
Bassam Sabbagh:that was given today and, and focus in on, on, on doing one
Bassam Sabbagh:one thing to move me in that direction, as opposed to try to
Bassam Sabbagh:get it all right.
Nicole York:I think that's a really brilliant place. For us
Nicole York:to end this. Assam is, like Matt said, you know, it's been a lot
Nicole York:this week, it's been really great information. But there's a
Nicole York:lot here, and it can definitely feel overwhelming. And I think
Nicole York:it's important for us to remember, as we consider all of
Nicole York:the stuff that we've heard, and all of the stuff that we shared,
Nicole York:that we don't have to do all of this tomorrow, right? We can
Nicole York:just pick one thing that resonates, you know, like the
Nicole York:funnel, that makes sense to me. Um, so let me just see how I can
Nicole York:start using that, or just posting at the same time every
Nicole York:day, maybe that's one thing that we can do one step in the right
Nicole York:direction, in that practice of showing up for ourselves. And
Nicole York:it's a pretty easy thing, set a reminder on my phone at this
Nicole York:time of day, that's what I'm going to post, no matter what
Nicole York:I'm doing, I've decided I have to stop and do the thing. That's
Nicole York:just one thing, right? One thing, one step we can take in
Nicole York:the right direction. So there's a lot of fantastic information
Nicole York:here, from almost every perspective, from what your
Nicole York:philosophy of social media is, all the way down to, you know
Nicole York:the techniques and the tools that you can use to accomplish
Nicole York:it. But don't feel overwhelmed, just pick one thing. And start
Nicole York:with that.
Bassam Sabbagh:Nicole, I also learned something this week.
Bassam Sabbagh:Because I keep talking about being on a boat, I posted the
Bassam Sabbagh:Instagram Stories of just videos I took on a boat, we're on a
Bassam Sabbagh:water this beautiful mountains around with snow covered
Bassam Sabbagh:mountains, and so on. And those posts got more engagement than
Bassam Sabbagh:any of my damn photos that I post. Alright, so there's two
Bassam Sabbagh:ways I could take that it's either I got the wrong audience,
Bassam Sabbagh:and they just want to look at, like landscape stuff. And that's
Bassam Sabbagh:the wrong way to take it. And the right way to take it is
Bassam Sabbagh:people just want to see stuff. People just want to see what I
Bassam Sabbagh:do all day long. And I get that part. But it kind of came
Bassam Sabbagh:crashing in front of me when I saw that this week. So just talk
Bassam Sabbagh:about what you do. So what if I'm out on a boat? And I'm a
Bassam Sabbagh:photographer, I don't have to just post about photography.
Bassam Sabbagh:Right?
Nicole York:Yeah. I mean, and that's a really good point.
Nicole York:massaman I think most of us have probably experienced that at
Nicole York:some point. Where one day I put a selfie in my stories because I
Nicole York:was getting ready to do a photo shoot. And I was trying to get,
Nicole York:you know, the engine running for getting people engaged that day
Nicole York:with the behind the scenes I was going to post Nick got more,
Nicole York:more likes more attention more, you know, than anything else.
Nicole York:And it would be really easy to do exactly what you said and be
Nicole York:like why do people engage with this and not with the image?
Nicole York:Well, here's the thing we have to remember. We use social media
Nicole York:to be entertained. Yes, we can also use it to get information
Nicole York:and inspiration. But the primary purpose of social media is
Nicole York:entertainment, even our friends become our entertainment during
Nicole York:the day when we're doing things like Doom scrolling through
Nicole York:Facebook. Our friends lives become a source of
Nicole York:entertainment. It's kind of terrible to think about it that
Nicole York:way. But it's the truth. It is a way to engage your brain in
Nicole York:something that is not necessarily productive and that
Nicole York:is entertainment. We may get out of it in some ways, but the
Nicole York:point is just to get you engaged and keep you entertained. And so
Nicole York:it's important to keep that in mind, that is what your content
Nicole York:is. And if you can, the whole trick to this content is to take
Nicole York:what is entertaining, and then make it valuable, beyond just a
Nicole York:pretty thing, and then use that power to give people something
Nicole York:because a business only exists to provide value. That's the
Nicole York:only reason they exist. And if you're not doing that, you're
Nicole York:not gonna make any money. So I think it's a really great point,
Nicole York:just to remember that social media is primarily a venue for
Nicole York:entertainment, we can use it for other things, but there's got to
Nicole York:be some entertainment value there and seeing a beautiful
Nicole York:place and seeing what an interesting person is doing in
Nicole York:their interesting life is entertaining. And there's
Nicole York:nothing wrong with that. That's why I write books because
Nicole York:they're entertaining. But you can still learn really great
Nicole York:things from them, and grow your empathy and experience. You
Nicole York:know, the world through a worldview that's not your own,
Nicole York:and all the other good things that come along with writing and
Nicole York:storytelling and reading books. But the primary way we do that
Nicole York:and get into people's brains is through entertainment. So it's a
Nicole York:good reminder. People don't just scroll around through Instagram,
Nicole York:so they can be like, I learned a really great thing today on
Nicole York:Instagram. They want to be entertained, and that's okay.
Bekka Bjorke:I would just like to show some solidarity to
Bekka Bjorke:besar. They're my most popular Instagram story of all time was
Bekka Bjorke:a video of a glitch I got playing Skyrim. And I usually
Bekka Bjorke:get like a couple 100 views or whatever on my stories. And this
Bekka Bjorke:was like a 1000s. And I don't know why. I guess it's
Bekka Bjorke:entertainment, because it was it was pretty strange looking
Bekka Bjorke:glitch. But yeah, I feel your pain.
Matt Stagliano:This is amazing. And I'm not gonna even add
Matt Stagliano:anything else. Nicole, I think you summed it up perfectly. It's
Matt Stagliano:a great place to end before we go through the exercise
Matt Stagliano:tomorrow. So just to kind of recap, if anybody else has
Matt Stagliano:joined the room in kind of the middle of this movie that we're
Matt Stagliano:talking about. The Facebook group is at the top of the room
Matt Stagliano:here, feel free to join that it is a private group, you can't
Matt Stagliano:find it, unless you're searching for it specifically. So go ahead
Matt Stagliano:and click on that. If you want to join the Facebook group,
Matt Stagliano:we'll go ahead and let you in there. But we're here every
Matt Stagliano:morning at 9am, Eastern 7am, Mountain Time, 6am Pacific, and
Matt Stagliano:whatever time it is, wherever you are in the world, but
Matt Stagliano:generally figure it out yourself. But we're going to be
Matt Stagliano:here tomorrow again. So if you feel like it, join us until
Matt Stagliano:then, go create something amazing. And thank you all for
Matt Stagliano:just being who you are and doing what you do. We'll talk to you
Matt Stagliano:tomorrow. Bye. Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse
Matt Stagliano:discussion moderated by all of us at the artists Forge. We hope
Matt Stagliano:you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a
Matt Stagliano:little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more
Matt Stagliano:episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit
Matt Stagliano:the artists forge.com and go make something incredible
