Social Media for Artists: Part Two
Learn practical ways to approach social media, tools to make the experience more streamlined, things to consider when you collaborate with other creators, and how you can break up pieces of content to be repurposed on multiple channels.
Transcript
Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being
Matt Stagliano:part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who
Matt Stagliano:help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity
Matt Stagliano:as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone
Matt Stagliano:has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need
Matt Stagliano:some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What
Matt Stagliano:you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily
Matt Stagliano:discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,
Matt Stagliano:I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit
Matt Stagliano:us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.
Nicole York:Welcome to morning walk and photo talk, wonderful
Nicole York:people come and hanging out with the artists forge group this
Nicole York:morning, as we continue our deep dive into social media, and how
Nicole York:we manage it, what we do with it, how we promote ourselves,
Nicole York:the practical nature of it, the psychological nature of it, and
Nicole York:all that good stuff. Yesterday, we started with some really kind
Nicole York:of broad overviews, we did talk about some strategy, but the
Nicole York:main goal was to kind of begin broad and think about how we
Nicole York:place ourselves within the social media sphere, things that
Nicole York:we should keep in mind, like, what do I enjoy doing? What kind
Nicole York:of platform is suited to the type of content that I actually
Nicole York:like making, so that I can maintain a relationship and the
Nicole York:platform takes advantage of my strengths as a creator as a
Nicole York:communicator? And then what are some things that we should be
Nicole York:thinking about, like, understanding what our intention
Nicole York:for that particular platform is, and how we are going to use it,
Nicole York:what we expect of it, all that good stuff. And we also talked a
Nicole York:little bit about what some people are doing now. Such as,
Nicole York:you know, telling stories and all that good stuff. So Matt, is
Nicole York:the kind of driver of this one. This is his particular question.
Nicole York:And something I would love to see you take the lead on,
Nicole York:though. Now with your sleep deprivation, that should be an
Nicole York:interesting challenge this morning. So I'm excited to see
Nicole York:where this one goes. So I'm gonna step back and put you in
Nicole York:the driver's seat. Good, sir.
Matt Stagliano:Well, that's, that's your funeral. Okay. So,
Matt Stagliano:um, you know, I'm really, like I mentioned yesterday, love hate
Matt Stagliano:relationship with it. And I'm trying to figure out social
Matt Stagliano:media for me, and then also trying to get to a point where
Matt Stagliano:I'm feeling like, like, I'm doing enough. And I know, it's
Matt Stagliano:all subjective. And I know our brains kind of go a bunch of
Matt Stagliano:different ways. But when I posited the question in the
Matt Stagliano:group the other day, it really was around, you know, am I doing
Matt Stagliano:things the right way? And quite frankly, there's no real
Matt Stagliano:barometer other than following analytics and watching your
Matt Stagliano:growth. And are you meeting the goals that you're setting,
Matt Stagliano:right? There is no right or wrong to any of this. And one of
Matt Stagliano:the things that came out and good morning, Becca, I saw you
Matt Stagliano:join, and I will give you a few moments to, to read the sleep
Matt Stagliano:out of your eyes. With that, I might give you more than a few
Matt Stagliano:minutes. But you had mentioned some things in response to my
Matt Stagliano:posts that really got me thinking. And one of those was
Matt Stagliano:the behavioral changes that people have gone through and
Matt Stagliano:viewing social media a little bit differently these days,
Matt Stagliano:especially over the past year and a half. Right? So it got me
Matt Stagliano:thinking about what is it that people are looking for, what is
Matt Stagliano:it that they're connecting with? And it's easy to throw out
Matt Stagliano:authenticity or honesty, or, you know, what have you. But what I
Matt Stagliano:found is that, for me specifically, I'm always
Matt Stagliano:tempering that authenticity, or that honesty, with this thing
Matt Stagliano:that I have, which is like, always try to be professional
Matt Stagliano:always try to put something out there that that folks are going
Matt Stagliano:to resonate with. And I find myself more and more slipping
Matt Stagliano:into the world of memes instead, and tic TOCs and just throwing
Matt Stagliano:stuff out to make them laugh because for me, that's what
Matt Stagliano:makes me laugh. So, you know, I've noticed my own social media
Matt Stagliano:behavior change over the past year and a half. I think, with
Matt Stagliano:all the free time that we've had, there's a level of content
Matt Stagliano:overload. And so we've been able to really pick and choose what
Matt Stagliano:we like. So Becca, I'd love to hear from you a little bit more
Matt Stagliano:about the behavioral points that you were making and see if
Matt Stagliano:that's something that we can tie into our respective approaches.
Matt Stagliano:Yeah, definitely.
Bekka Bjorke:And forgive me, I'm gonna wait for about three
Bekka Bjorke:minutes. But I mean, that's it That's the meat of it, right?
Bekka Bjorke:It's social media, and it has to be social. So you have to be
Bekka Bjorke:putting your focus really on the, the people aspect and the
Bekka Bjorke:behavior aspects. Um, and I
Matt Stagliano:both know, I think, you know, and to give you
Matt Stagliano:more time to wake up, and I know I've kind of three under the bus
Matt Stagliano:there, but really,
Bekka Bjorke:oh my God, my, my phone wasn't completely on, and
Bekka Bjorke:it didn't give me the notification. So I should have
Bekka Bjorke:been awake earlier, my alarm should have gone. Anyway. So as
Bekka Bjorke:as I've, I've brought up before Nicole's wrap this up to when it
Bekka Bjorke:comes to utilizing social media to really kind of build your
Bekka Bjorke:business, making sure you're putting the client or enough
Bekka Bjorke:client to focus on the client, and how the client is using that
Bekka Bjorke:media or how the audience is using that media is number one
Bekka Bjorke:above all else. And you know, people tend to be able to tell,
Bekka Bjorke:like, we can sniff out when we're talking to like a real
Bekka Bjorke:person, versus when we're talking to like, a scripted
Bekka Bjorke:robot voice speaking and business speak, right. So like,
Bekka Bjorke:you can tell, like, when someone's genuinely posting a
Bekka Bjorke:meme, like you said, that's enjoyable, it made them laugh,
Bekka Bjorke:and you connect with them on a personal level, versus sometimes
Bekka Bjorke:when it's like those ads that are using memes. And they don't
Bekka Bjorke:actually make sense, they don't actually understand what they're
Bekka Bjorke:trying to communicate at all. Or even when you call someone on
Bekka Bjorke:the phone, right? You know, you can tell they're reading a
Bekka Bjorke:script versus when you can tell you're actually having
Bekka Bjorke:conversation with them, and they understand your problem, and
Bekka Bjorke:they actually want to help you. So yeah, digging into those
Bekka Bjorke:behavioral aspects are really, really super important. And it's
Bekka Bjorke:going to change depending on who you are actually trying to
Bekka Bjorke:connect with, because different people are going to use
Bekka Bjorke:different kinds of social media differently. For me, like, I
Bekka Bjorke:want to like tick tock a lot more like I like tick tock, but
Bekka Bjorke:it's also not necessarily the best marketing social media
Bekka Bjorke:outlet for me, versus maybe like someone like Erica, who shoots
Bekka Bjorke:senior portraits and needs to be really involved in aware of like
Bekka Bjorke:Gen Z. That is that that's a great opportunity for her to
Bekka Bjorke:make those kinds of connections. So you have to be super super,
Bekka Bjorke:again, aware of those behavioral elements. That's, that's
Matt Stagliano:so great. And, you know, you made another point
Matt Stagliano:as well, that in this one really struck home for me, which is the
Matt Stagliano:follower count is not equal success, right. And we all kind
Matt Stagliano:of know that. But it's good reminder, it's good to hear over
Matt Stagliano:and over. And that it's all about engagement rate, right? So
Matt Stagliano:it's knowing your audience, it's knowing what they like. And if
Matt Stagliano:it fits into your marketing plan, that's perfectly fine.
Matt Stagliano:What you're driving towards is engagement, rather than just
Matt Stagliano:numbers, right? Because anybody can buy numbers got I get the
Matt Stagliano:the DMS all the time, Hey, pay me 50 bucks, you get 350,000
Matt Stagliano:followers, maybe that might be hyperbolic, but you get the
Matt Stagliano:drift. So you know, I think having a higher engagement rate
Matt Stagliano:with smaller numbers is going to do more for your business than
Matt Stagliano:large numbers and low engagement rates. On the flip side of that,
Matt Stagliano:you know, if your intention like we were talking about intention
Matt Stagliano:yesterday, if your intention is to get the eyes of companies and
Matt Stagliano:try to be an influencer, and you know, build that you do need the
Matt Stagliano:numbers. So how do you get those numbers without being
Matt Stagliano:inauthentic or purchasing things or following into you know,
Matt Stagliano:whatever scheme, people try to get you to get into? How do you
Matt Stagliano:do that organically. And a lot of it comes down to again,
Matt Stagliano:knowing your audience, knowing the platform, knowing what
Matt Stagliano:they're looking for knowing what your brand is, right? So if your
Matt Stagliano:brand is not tick tock memes and 13 year old boy humor like mine
Matt Stagliano:is then what is it that your audience is looking for? So
Matt Stagliano:knowing all of that is great. In terms of engagement rates,
Matt Stagliano:anything in the level of one to two, maybe two and a half
Matt Stagliano:percent is considered pretty normal. So the next question a
Matt Stagliano:lot of you might have is, well, how do I find that engagement
Matt Stagliano:rate, you can get it through a myriad of analytical tools, the
Matt Stagliano:one that I use is called Social Blade. And you can register an
Matt Stagliano:account and get some deeper analytics on where your channel
Matt Stagliano:ranks for YouTube or Instagram or Facebook. So you can check
Matt Stagliano:that out and see based on your last I think it's 10 or 15 posts
Matt Stagliano:or something to that effect, what your engagement rate is.
Matt Stagliano:And so for me, I've got a lower number I've got about 2300 or so
Matt Stagliano:followers on the stone tree account, and I've got an
Matt Stagliano:engagement rate that hovers around 5%. Sometimes it's four
Matt Stagliano:and a half. Sometimes it's 6%. But it's right in that 5% which
Matt Stagliano:is great. I love that I love engaging with my audience. My
Matt Stagliano:other account fire lands me via, as somewhere around 11,000
Matt Stagliano:followers, and my engagement rate there is I want to say like
Matt Stagliano:point eight, seven, it's below 1%. Because when I set that up
Matt Stagliano:years ago, I got a lot of bots and fake followers and had no
Matt Stagliano:idea how to get rid of them. So it drives your engagement
Matt Stagliano:numbers down. So I'm a living walking example that numbers do
Matt Stagliano:not equal engagement, especially on a larger account. So check
Matt Stagliano:out Social Blade if you're looking for something like that.
Matt Stagliano:Now, the last thing that you had mentioned, Becca, because you
Matt Stagliano:were just dropping gold nuggets in this thread over and over and
Matt Stagliano:over, you were talking about collaborations and growing a,
Matt Stagliano:growing a following using collaborations or shared content
Matt Stagliano:between other accounts. And you've seen your friends and you
Matt Stagliano:put an example up in the in the Facebook group. And for those of
Matt Stagliano:you that have just joined us, the Facebook group link is at
Matt Stagliano:the top of this page. And you can go ahead there and ask to
Matt Stagliano:join, we do keep it as a private group. But if you'd like to
Matt Stagliano:join, just go ahead and click that link and submit a request
Matt Stagliano:and we'll let you in. But for growing using collabs, or shout
Matt Stagliano:outs or cross promotion. I know, Becca, you said that you've you
Matt Stagliano:don't really feel comfortable with that. Nor do I, you know,
Matt Stagliano:reaching out and doing some of those things. And Jean had
Matt Stagliano:mentioned the same thing. But can you give us a little bit
Matt Stagliano:more context around, you know, what your view is on collabs.
Matt Stagliano:And, you know, using that tactic in, you know, trying to grow
Matt Stagliano:your following.
Bekka Bjorke:Sure. And I mean, I love words, I do love doing
Bekka Bjorke:collabs with people, particularly other artists
Bekka Bjorke:within my own general genre, or even outside the genre. So I can
Bekka Bjorke:be seen by people that I wouldn't otherwise be engaging
Bekka Bjorke:with. And you have to be selective with it. It isn't just
Bekka Bjorke:like, accept every time someone messages you and is like, Hey,
Bekka Bjorke:do you want to do a shoot, and not like that? So often, it's
Bekka Bjorke:with friends, you know, so I know I've mentioned before, I
Bekka Bjorke:love doing like monthly art challenges. And I had a huge,
Bekka Bjorke:huge, huge boom growth, early some follower growth, but also
Bekka Bjorke:engagement growth of last year during May. And I reached out to
Bekka Bjorke:a bunch of other art, art friends and photographers and
Bekka Bjorke:was like, Hey, go shoot a self portrait and send it to me and
Bekka Bjorke:let me make it into a mermaid. And I did a bunch of those all
Bekka Bjorke:for the entire month. And so it led me then have that cross
Bekka Bjorke:promotional aspect, where a bunch of new people were seeing
Bekka Bjorke:the work that I did, and then coming to check me out through
Bekka Bjorke:those people I collaborated with, and then they also got
Bekka Bjorke:something awesome. That you know, was new for their
Bekka Bjorke:portfolio, and then people who follow me Were then going and
Bekka Bjorke:visiting them. So that is one approach. And within the photo
Bekka Bjorke:sphere, I'm sure everyone has probably tried, you know, some
Bekka Bjorke:test shoots or you know, TF shoots, collab shoots, whatever
Bekka Bjorke:you want to call them. same general idea. So and sometimes
Bekka Bjorke:that is all instigated through social media, you know,
Bekka Bjorke:definitely I've connected with a lot of really cool people
Bekka Bjorke:through Instagram, and I kind of vet people when they reach out
Bekka Bjorke:to me to collaborate, you know, is this something that is
Bekka Bjorke:beneficial to me? Do I like their look, do I like their
Bekka Bjorke:work, do you know, etc, there. And the part that I mentioned
Bekka Bjorke:being uncomfortable with I did drop that example, that was not
Bekka Bjorke:my example, that was something I just saved on my phone a while
Bekka Bjorke:ago. Be like reading someone's like, this is how I got from
Bekka Bjorke:zero to 100k, and, you know, a year or whatever. But one thing
Bekka Bjorke:I thought was very interesting. So Jean brought up that he was
Bekka Bjorke:not particularly comfortable reaching out in that way,
Bekka Bjorke:particularly with a smaller following. However, I think that
Bekka Bjorke:again, people can can smell in office in authenticity, right?
Bekka Bjorke:They can tell when something's fake, if you see you know, Kim
Bekka Bjorke:Kardashian on her Instagram putting on lip gloss and you
Bekka Bjorke:know, saying how much he loves his lip gloss, you're probably
Bekka Bjorke:going to assume while she's being paid for that, and you
Bekka Bjorke:know, who knows if this lip gloss is actually great, but if
Bekka Bjorke:you see, you know, some random person that you follow with, you
Bekka Bjorke:know, 800 followers, 5000 followers, mentioning how much
Bekka Bjorke:they love someone else's work or someone else's products, you
Bekka Bjorke:know, you're probably a little more likely to be emotionally
Bekka Bjorke:invested because you trust them already. You know, they aren't
Bekka Bjorke:some high end, professional influencer, but it's tapping
Bekka Bjorke:into those smaller markets where there is that level of trust and
Bekka Bjorke:engagement that's gonna then lead they're following to trust
Bekka Bjorke:and want to engage with you. So I think there's a lot of value
Bekka Bjorke:there. Stepping away from really large scale influencer kind of
Bekka Bjorke:lifestyle, and again, getting into that more intimate kind of
Bekka Bjorke:community. Hold on one second. There's more to say but there's
Bekka Bjorke:a garbage truck next to me. Oh, I don't know if you can hear it.
Bekka Bjorke:I'm just gonna
Nicole York:be good. Okay, Becca,
Bekka Bjorke:cuz I'm cuz that's again where you're gonna find
Bekka Bjorke:the most valuable types of communication engagement is
Bekka Bjorke:within some semblance of community and establishing
Bekka Bjorke:yourself kind of as expert and as trusted source. So when
Bekka Bjorke:you're, you know, like hashtags, right? Those are kind of micro
Bekka Bjorke:chasms of community, when you go to a certain hashtag, there's
Bekka Bjorke:people involved in that hashtag. And that's how you're going to
Bekka Bjorke:tell what their interests are, what other people they're
Bekka Bjorke:probably engaging with anyway. So you have to be very
Bekka Bjorke:particular about choosing those kinds of things, to find the
Bekka Bjorke:right communities that you want to talk to. And the same thing
Bekka Bjorke:with Facebook groups, right? When you just post something on
Bekka Bjorke:like your regular Facebook page, it goes out to your grandma, it
Bekka Bjorke:goes out to somebody, your you know, your colleagues, it goes
Bekka Bjorke:out to your random friends from high school. But when you go to
Bekka Bjorke:a particular Facebook group, and you're, you know, talking and
Bekka Bjorke:having actual conversations and like sharing your expertise and
Bekka Bjorke:giving to that group in a way that's authentic, you're
Bekka Bjorke:building that sense of trust and you that's when you can have the
Bekka Bjorke:more opportunity for things like collaboration and interest, and
Bekka Bjorke:you know, name recognition and brand recognition, in a more
Bekka Bjorke:genuine way.
Matt Stagliano:And I love that, thank you so much. I love that
Matt Stagliano:because the building trust with the audience is such an
Matt Stagliano:important part of the developing a consistent following, and an
Matt Stagliano:engaged following. And it's not something that happens with one
Matt Stagliano:post, right, you need to consistently be showing that
Matt Stagliano:you're trustworthy individual, for your audience to be engaged
Matt Stagliano:with you. If you're if you're promoting in Fuji cameras, or
Matt Stagliano:Starbucks coffee, or whatever it is, they can very easily look at
Matt Stagliano:that as you're just shilling a product. But if you over time,
Matt Stagliano:can illustrate why this is a product you use or why you love
Matt Stagliano:the brand, or whatever the case is, you're more likely to get
Matt Stagliano:folks to engage with that and have them check out the
Matt Stagliano:collaborator or the additional brand. Because they're looking
Matt Stagliano:at you as someone to say okay, well, if if Becca likes this,
Matt Stagliano:then I'm definitely going to like it. And that's a huge part
Matt Stagliano:of sales as well. But Nicole cat, have you done anything in
Matt Stagliano:those terms? And collabs and Nicole, you did stuff with some
Matt Stagliano:of your illustrations, and I know cat, you do this stuff all
Matt Stagliano:the time, I'd love to hear from either one of you about
Matt Stagliano:collaborations or linking up with other brands? And how does
Matt Stagliano:that work for you?
Nicole York:Do you want to start?
Cat Ford-Coates:Sure, I don't know that I do it.
Matt Stagliano:Well, you know what I mean by that cat is like,
Matt Stagliano:you know, when you're tagging Ellen Chrome or pro photo, or
Matt Stagliano:you know, do you see any sort of connection with that? And do you
Matt Stagliano:find that people follow those links to other brands? Because
Matt Stagliano:you're promoting them where they ask you questions about it?
Cat Ford-Coates:Um, yes and no, like, it's, it's very
Cat Ford-Coates:intentional. So like, if it's with a promotion for another
Cat Ford-Coates:brand, like the obsidian challenge that we did earlier
Cat Ford-Coates:this year, that's ramping up now, for their second one, by
Cat Ford-Coates:the way, if anybody wants, that might be closed. I don't know if
Cat Ford-Coates:applications are still open. But it was a really fun challenge to
Cat Ford-Coates:do. But there was a lot of bounce back and forth between,
Cat Ford-Coates:you know, obsidian and my brand and with infinite tools,
Cat Ford-Coates:infinite tools and retouches. Really great. Gaming, cool about
Cat Ford-Coates:reposting work. But there, I haven't done a lot of
Cat Ford-Coates:intentional like, hey, let's collaborate on like an Instagram
Cat Ford-Coates:takeover or anything or anything other than that, then unless
Cat Ford-Coates:it's like actual work that we're sharing. But yeah, it's
Cat Ford-Coates:definitely something to put on the radar.
Nicole York:Yeah, for sure. And I've done most of my
Nicole York:collaborations have actually been with brands and companies
Nicole York:and not necessarily with people. So my experience there is
Nicole York:definitely a little bit different. And sometimes, that
Nicole York:is, you know, I'm working with Allen Chrome, they're getting
Nicole York:ready to release new lights. We have equipment, we have an
Nicole York:understanding of what we need to produce, to meet that brief so
Nicole York:that they have examples of what real artists can do with the
Nicole York:tools. And it's always, at least when working with Allen Chrome,
Nicole York:the brief is always to be as authentic as possible. And right
Nicole York:before COVID started, we had the opportunity to just get together
Nicole York:in Vegas, this really fantastic studio, a bunch of artists. So
Nicole York:Renee, Robin petite nyck I was there. It was just a lot of
Nicole York:really fun. Alicia Knight was there, there was a lot of really
Nicole York:fantastic creators.
Nicole York:And so we got to get together, we got to shoot with the lights.
Nicole York:And so not only were the final images used as promotion as
Nicole York:well, but also the video of us working and explaining our
Nicole York:process. So there really is a gamut to think about when you're
Nicole York:looking at how you want to be engaging. Because it goes from
Nicole York:working with brands all the way on one end and Trying to meet
Nicole York:what their expectations are, and recognizing that they need
Nicole York:certain things from you in order for that partnership to be
Nicole York:worthwhile for them. And then on the other side, working with
Nicole York:other creators, or local businesses even don't hesitate,
Nicole York:y'all, you have to remember that what you create has value. And
Nicole York:when it comes to other local businesses, if your goal is to
Nicole York:be seen by local businesses, it's great to go find a small
Nicole York:business and say, Hey, I'd love to collaborate with you guys
Nicole York:maybe give you some promotional material, you tagged me, I'll
Nicole York:tag you like, let's let's turn this into a thing. I did this
Nicole York:with a small boutique brand in Colorado Springs had a great
Nicole York:relationship with them over about three years or so they
Nicole York:would provide clothes and other things for photoshoots. And then
Nicole York:because I was working regularly with the owner of the store, she
Nicole York:also worked with a tourism board for Colorado Springs. And so
Nicole York:there were times when they would want to do a campaign or
Nicole York:something. And I would be the photographer they went to that
Nicole York:also opened up the doors for interviews and some other cool
Nicole York:things that happen. So these collaborations can extend far
Nicole York:beyond social media. But I think and extend on a spectrum from
Nicole York:working with other small creators, small brands to
Nicole York:working with companies. But I think the thing that we need to
Nicole York:keep in mind here is that your results are going to be highly
Nicole York:dependent on the sphere in which that brand or person moves. So
Nicole York:if my goal for my business is to be working with seniors, and
Nicole York:then I'm collaborating with lots of other artists, who are used
Nicole York:often as reference for other artists, that when my brand
Nicole York:starts to grow, it's not seniors who are following my page in
Nicole York:their parents, it's other artists. So when I start to put
Nicole York:things out on that channel, I'm not going to be getting the
Nicole York:response I want. From a business perspective, meaning I'm not
Nicole York:going to be getting click throughs, I'm not going to be
Nicole York:getting an advertising ROI. Because the folks who see my
Nicole York:advertising are going to be other artists who are looking to
Nicole York:me for inspiration, ask me how I know this, because most of my
Nicole York:following on Instagram is within the art community is not
Nicole York:potential clients. So for me, advertising on Instagram, and
Nicole York:doing collaborations on Instagram is not always going to
Nicole York:have the same results that it would for somebody who has very
Nicole York:carefully curated their feed to, to appeal to their potential
Nicole York:clients. Most of my feed goes out to photographers, other
Nicole York:artists, I'm often I often have artists using my work as
Nicole York:inspiration for what they paint, I have got like bucket loads of,
Nicole York:of those things. So for me, if I were to try to advertise a 40,
Nicole York:over 40, shoots, I'm probably not getting anywhere. But if I
Nicole York:advertise the lighting book that you all got my lovely artists
Nicole York:for family that you all got access to before anybody else
Nicole York:that will probably sell because it is other creators who follow
Nicole York:me. So I recognize that that was a really like long explanation,
Nicole York:I just want to make sure we understand that number one,
Nicole York:those collaborations exist on a spectrum. And unless you are
Nicole York:giving to other artists, things that they can't do for
Nicole York:themselves, like illustrations, for the for my photography,
Nicole York:friends who do not draw paint, then you have to be careful
Nicole York:about how you choose to do those things. Your collaborations
Nicole York:might be best done with other types of creators within the
Nicole York:community, whose audience is the audience that will buy things
Nicole York:from you. And that exists on a spectrum. So I just think that
Nicole York:that was an important thing to keep in mind.
Bekka Bjorke:Yeah, totally. And so one thing I do often on
Bekka Bjorke:Instagram or Facebook too, but Instagram is you know, my my
Bekka Bjorke:favorite social media of choice when kind of going through that
Bekka Bjorke:vetting process but looking at other artists or even just for
Bekka Bjorke:research purposes because I think this is really important
Bekka Bjorke:to your social media gives you a huge capacity for doing market
Bekka Bjorke:research and for you know, building your own business by
Bekka Bjorke:looking at other businesses. So you can do things like look into
Bekka Bjorke:who is following other artists that are similar to you, who are
Bekka Bjorke:they interacting with? And you can take it even deeper because
Bekka Bjorke:you know when you think about social media again social what
Bekka Bjorke:are what are people doing in a social means what are they
Bekka Bjorke:talking about? You can look into people's like reviews you can
Bekka Bjorke:look into like their Facebook page and what are people saying
Bekka Bjorke:about their business? You can even look to like you know, if
Bekka Bjorke:people have had public complaints about you know,
Bekka Bjorke:people who other artists in your same genre, you know, your
Bekka Bjorke:direct competition like in your location, and then look at how
Bekka Bjorke:to build your own business based on their following or the
Bekka Bjorke:committee clients about their business, how can you better
Bekka Bjorke:your own business based on basically outshining them in
Bekka Bjorke:those certain areas. So again, like when it comes to those
Bekka Bjorke:social media collaborations, it really depends on who is
Bekka Bjorke:actively following and engaging with the people you're
Bekka Bjorke:collaborating. Because if it is all just other photographers or
Bekka Bjorke:other illustrators, other artists or whatever, that would
Bekka Bjorke:have no actual benefit to you, then that collaboration, yeah,
Bekka Bjorke:definitely probably isn't worth it. But if you know that they're
Bekka Bjorke:more engaged with and followed by local businesses or you know,
Bekka Bjorke:by the desired clientele, then that is a great opportunity.
Matt Stagliano:I think that's so great. And one of the
Matt Stagliano:examples that I see a lot in terms of monitoring competitors,
Matt Stagliano:or, you know, other artists, or photographers in the area that
Matt Stagliano:that, you know, are in the running with me for certain
Matt Stagliano:jobs, I always watch social media for, hey, who knows a good
Matt Stagliano:local photographer for x, right. And invariably, you're going to
Matt Stagliano:get 100 people responding with their favorite photographer in
Matt Stagliano:the area. And a lot of times, I make it a point to go in there.
Matt Stagliano:And thank the person that referred me reach out to the
Matt Stagliano:person that originally asked the question and then follow up with
Matt Stagliano:them as well, and try to be professional every step of the
Matt Stagliano:way. If nothing else, it shows that my communication is
Matt Stagliano:professional on a platform. And then when other people aren't
Matt Stagliano:responding whatsoever, it sets you apart as someone that is
Matt Stagliano:engaged, that is there that is looking for that type of work.
Matt Stagliano:So I like that, that approach that you guys both talked about.
Matt Stagliano:Now, one of the things that I wanted to kind of move from the
Matt Stagliano:philosophy because we spent a lot of time in that yesterday
Matt Stagliano:and, and we're we're kind of heading there today. But I'd
Matt Stagliano:love to go into a little bit more of the the tactics and the
Matt Stagliano:actual tools that are being used. And if you're in the
Matt Stagliano:Facebook post as well, I'm just going to kind of keep referring
Matt Stagliano:back to the Facebook group. Cat, you posted a lot of your
Matt Stagliano:favorite tools as well and really laid out how long you're
Matt Stagliano:spending in the morning and you're creating and what your
Matt Stagliano:flow is primarily. But you've got a handful of tools that you
Matt Stagliano:use, rattle them off, what are your favorites?
Cat Ford-Coates:Um, I use God, what do I use, um,
Unknown:beat leap, scroll
Cat Ford-Coates:unfold. Social motion packs. And those are
Cat Ford-Coates:probably the primaries that I'm back and forth
Matt Stagliano:between you'd mentioned hashtag wizard, which
Matt Stagliano:I've never heard of
Cat Ford-Coates:hashtag wizard, as well. Because you know what,
Cat Ford-Coates:I'm always at a loss for hashtags. I'm like, I don't know
Cat Ford-Coates:what the hell people are searching for. And I stumbled on
Cat Ford-Coates:to hashtag wizard because like, when you go and search for,
Cat Ford-Coates:like, a hashtag that you already know, is definitely like in your
Cat Ford-Coates:vein, it gives you like another 100 hashtags that are similar to
Cat Ford-Coates:that and popular on Instagram, that have like related related
Cat Ford-Coates:keywords. So that's been really helpful. And then because you
Cat Ford-Coates:can save them like Asheville portrait studio, Sarasota,
Cat Ford-Coates:portrait studio destination, personal branding, and you know,
Cat Ford-Coates:like that kind of thing. So you can save collections and return
Cat Ford-Coates:to them. And then kind of monitor you know, the bounce
Cat Ford-Coates:that you're getting, because on Instagram and your insights,
Cat Ford-Coates:it'll show you like how many came from hashtags, how many
Cat Ford-Coates:came from explore how many came from your friends list and
Cat Ford-Coates:followers and that kind of thing. So that's been really
Cat Ford-Coates:helpful as far as like kind of dialing in. And then I know
Cat Ford-Coates:which hashtags that I'm sort of using a cross, write like
Cat Ford-Coates:different categories. And then I can spend more time engaging in
Cat Ford-Coates:those hashtags, just to go and engage with that audience.
Matt Stagliano:Awesome, pretty incredible. I hadn't heard of
Matt Stagliano:that before. I've used some similar. I was gonna say, No,
Matt Stagliano:I'm just I'm talking into a muted microphone, as always,
Matt Stagliano:just and what I dropped was gold. It's not worth repeating.
Matt Stagliano:Yeah, I'll just kind of leave it No. You know that that hashtag
Matt Stagliano:suggestion thing is something that I use in later all the
Matt Stagliano:time. They've got suggested hashtags, and I'm assuming it's
Matt Stagliano:some similar level tool, cat, but I really really liked that
Matt Stagliano:approach because I struggled with the same thing. I'm like,
Matt Stagliano:portrait hashtag portrait. Now what you know,
Cat Ford-Coates:as a portrait mood moody as fuck, you know?
Cat Ford-Coates:I've been hold like, well, they're fun, but are they doing
Cat Ford-Coates:anything right? Am I doing this appropriately? And so that's
Cat Ford-Coates:given me just some, some bounce on understanding a little more.
Cat Ford-Coates:I don't know comprehensively about which hashtags are working
Cat Ford-Coates:and speaking to the audience that I'm directing them to.
Matt Stagliano:And you know, I'm going to I'm going to remind
Matt Stagliano:the group and I'm going to keep saying this. None of us are
Matt Stagliano:coaches or gurus on social media. This is purely a
Matt Stagliano:discussion about how we see things, how as working artists,
Matt Stagliano:we're trying to use social media to engage our audience, there is
Matt Stagliano:no right or wrong, there is no perfect tactic for any of this.
Matt Stagliano:And if someone tells you that they have the secrets, they're
Matt Stagliano:lying to you flat out. So unless you are coding the actual
Matt Stagliano:algorithm at Instagram, I would just advise, like I do stay in
Matt Stagliano:your lane. And just understand that there is no right or wrong
Matt Stagliano:way to do any of this. Alright, so I know that a couple of
Matt Stagliano:people have been raising their hands. And we're going to get to
Matt Stagliano:in a minute, I knew Ari and Trish had raised their hands.
Matt Stagliano:And we can bring you guys up in a minute. But I really did want
Matt Stagliano:to just flesh this out a little bit further on the tools. Like
Matt Stagliano:you can't I use some of the same ones scroll unfold is a huge one
Matt Stagliano:for me Animoto for videos, stories and posts, later, which
Matt Stagliano:I've mentioned quite a bit to not only post to Instagram, but
Matt Stagliano:Facebook and Pinterest. And I'm able to schedule those out in
Matt Stagliano:advance and do the preview of my feed, and so on and so forth. I
Matt Stagliano:think those are my favorite, I'm always playing with different
Matt Stagliano:apps to see if I like them, my phone is full of apps that are
Matt Stagliano:never going to go anywhere. And I think it's the aesthetic that
Matt Stagliano:I'm looking for more than anything to tie my brand into
Matt Stagliano:what I'm putting out there. So, you know, when it comes to
Matt Stagliano:aesthetics, and I'll ask all of you, Becca, Nicole cat, I'll ask
Matt Stagliano:all of you, do you try to adhere to an esthetic, whether it's in
Matt Stagliano:your stories, or in your feed? And do you think it makes sense
Matt Stagliano:at all? Or is it just kind of like, Hey, I like this piece,
Matt Stagliano:I'm gonna put it out there. I know, it'll get engagement with
Matt Stagliano:my audience. It doesn't stick to a traditional aesthetic, like
Matt Stagliano:every other photo is a black and white or whatever. Do you find
Matt Stagliano:that you put any thought or credence into that? Or do you
Matt Stagliano:just kind of post what you like, and because it is your voice, it
Matt Stagliano:all generally ties in together love your thoughts on that.
Nicole York:I think you basically nailed what my
Nicole York:Instagram looks like for me, is whatever my visual signature is,
Nicole York:that's what's on there I use Instagram is, in a way kind of a
Nicole York:portfolio. So my feed is just my work. Every now and then I will
Nicole York:post something, you know, that is like announcing something.
Nicole York:But I usually go back and delete that. Because if somebody's
Nicole York:scrolling through my feed, I just want them to see my work.
Nicole York:My stories I've noticed, tend to do best when it's me. If I'm
Nicole York:talking about something going on in my life, or just sharing a
Nicole York:piece of what I did today, that's the types of things that
Nicole York:seem to get the most traction there for me. But that's why
Nicole York:there's a bunny running down the road in front of me, he gets
Nicole York:like 10 feet, and he's like, she's not gonna come any
Nicole York:farther. And then he goes 10 more feet. So yeah, so I think
Nicole York:that's an important thing to consider as well. Because
Nicole York:Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, tick tock, all of
Nicole York:those different platforms are asking for something slightly
Nicole York:different from creators in order to reward them with the
Nicole York:algorithm reach that they want. And so thinking about how those
Nicole York:things operate, and what people go there for, like when somebody
Nicole York:shows up on Instagram, why are they there? When somebody shows
Nicole York:up on Tik Tok? Why are they there? And you can look at
Nicole York:curating your feed in order to kind of match those things. So
Nicole York:as an example, I've heard, was it head heart hands, right? So
Nicole York:you may decide, okay, if I'm going to try to curate my feed,
Nicole York:how do I want to do that? What things do I care about enough to
Nicole York:create and what things are actually going to matter? To the
Nicole York:people I'm trying to talk to? And you might say, Well, funny
Nicole York:memes are a big one for me. So any funny memes related to the
Nicole York:things I'm interested in, so for me, maybe it would be like,
Nicole York:fantasy stuff. So if it's a Lord of the Rings meme I am in, right
Nicole York:and probably the people who follow me are into storytelling
Nicole York:and fantasy stuff. And that's probably going to be right up
Nicole York:their alley. So maybe memes and I'll do that, you know, on
Nicole York:Tuesdays. And Wednesdays maybe that's like a really great quote
Nicole York:from an artist. I love or philosopher, I love her, you
Nicole York:know, a storyteller that I love and Thursdays or when I post
Nicole York:pictures that, you know, you can really easily look at curating
Nicole York:your feed based on what people want from you, and what's going
Nicole York:to do best on that algorithm. And, you know, you can obviously
Nicole York:push what you're doing in one place to other places. But
Nicole York:Facebook doesn't really like that it doesn't really respond
Nicole York:well with reach there. And so the more native you can be,
Nicole York:probably the better, the better, the platforms are going to
Nicole York:respond. Because you, if you think like the platform, they
Nicole York:want people to stay on the platform, that is literally the
Nicole York:entire purpose for why they exist. Because if you stay on
Nicole York:the platform, you're gonna see the advertisements, you know,
Nicole York:you're, you're making them more money if you keep people where
Nicole York:they're at. So when you post things natively, it just tends
Nicole York:to reward you a little bit more. So when I'm thinking about how
Nicole York:I'm going to structure, my posts, and what that looks like,
Nicole York:I'm really thinking about what I use that platform form for and
Nicole York:why people follow me there. And so I don't post the same thing
Nicole York:on Facebook that I post on Instagram, I might share it just
Nicole York:for the sake of being like, well, it's on Instagram, I can
Nicole York:very easily push it over to Facebook, too. And share it on
Nicole York:Twitter, that's fine, but those posts don't tend to do as well.
Nicole York:So Facebook is where I share like longer form, thoughts, and
Nicole York:behind the scenes and my life and other things. And then
Nicole York:Instagram is really just image based. I've started using Tik
Nicole York:Tok a little bit. But mostly so far. It's it's in an exploratory
Nicole York:phase. So I'm just seeing how it works for me. And at some point,
Nicole York:I probably will curate it a little bit more. But those are
Nicole York:the things that I keep in mind when I'm trying to figure out
Nicole York:what I post and how it posted.
Matt Stagliano:Now, you're also an example of someone that is,
Matt Stagliano:and you're probably going to laugh at this but incredibly
Matt Stagliano:organized. I at least that's that's the thing that I have, in
Matt Stagliano:my mind when I think about you is incredibly organized, whether
Matt Stagliano:or not that's true. Just go with it, just roll with it.
Nicole York:I won't shatter that illusion for you.
Matt Stagliano:Thank you appreciate that. But do you use
Matt Stagliano:a content calendaring system? Do you use a spreadsheet or a
Matt Stagliano:Google Doc or you know a program like later? Or? Do you do that
Matt Stagliano:and plan it out so that you can repurpose content from one
Matt Stagliano:platform to another? Or do you basically just stick to what you
Matt Stagliano:stick to what you were just talking about, which is hey, I'm
Matt Stagliano:going to put imagery on Instagram, and I'm going to do
Matt Stagliano:the more personal stuff on Facebook. Do you do you put
Matt Stagliano:thought into how you're plotting that out, let's say over the
Matt Stagliano:course of a week or a month, so that there are consistent themes
Matt Stagliano:kind of like you do here in the room?
Nicole York:Right? That's a really great question. And
Nicole York:actually, the answer is both yes and no. So when I'm managing
Nicole York:somebody else's social media platforms, which, okay, I want
Nicole York:to die anyway, when I'm doing that for somebody else, I
Nicole York:absolutely use a content calendar. And I also have a
Nicole York:flowchart for the way that I'm going to be purposing
Nicole York:information. And I'll explain a little bit how that goes. So
Nicole York:when I was working for PRO EDU, the main product that we were
Nicole York:selling is tutorials, obviously. So at the very top of the
Nicole York:flowchart is the tutorial, or the video content that we're
Nicole York:making, that then can be broken down into multiple things. You
Nicole York:can use clips, from the video that go places, you can use
Nicole York:quotes from the video that go places, you can take the subject
Nicole York:of that video and write a blog post about it. You can use a
Nicole York:still from that video or from the photographer who created it
Nicole York:in order to post something like that on Instagram. So you
Nicole York:basically take a single piece of content and figure out what you
Nicole York:can get from that single piece of content. When I am
Nicole York:interviewing folks on my YouTube channel, Nicole creates, I take
Nicole York:the video I cut it up into pieces. I use, you know a video
Nicole York:clip for an Instagram story. I use stills that the photographer
Nicole York:sends me or the artists sends me on Instagram to let people know
Nicole York:that interview is going to happen. I use quotes from the
Nicole York:interview also, you'll see this on the artists Forge. When we've
Nicole York:interviewed people in the past, people like Cheryl Walsh, you'll
Nicole York:see quotes that they have there from the you know, particularly
Nicole York:inspiring quotes from those interviews. So I have a
Nicole York:flowchart of how I can break things up and where they go. If
Nicole York:it's video. If I had had a tick tock at the time, I would
Nicole York:certainly be pushing a piece of video out to tick tock I would
Nicole York:put that in Instagram stories and also push it over to
Nicole York:Facebook stories. I would use that quote on Instagram. I could
Nicole York:probably also use it on Twitter. So trying to understand what
Nicole York:each platform is designed to do. And then taking those content
Nicole York:pieces and putting them out there. So in a real way, what
Nicole York:happens is, it becomes the Mississippi and all of its
Nicole York:tributaries, right. So the single piece of big content is
Nicole York:the Mississippi, the tributaries all flow out from that. And you
Nicole York:can take one piece of content and basically turn it into 10
Nicole York:different social media posts, relatively easy for not too much
Nicole York:effort. And I will do that on a calendar understanding. So if I
Nicole York:was cat, I would say, my 40 over 40 is coming up, I need to be,
Nicole York:you know, sharing things related to that. So in the month before
Nicole York:40, over 40 launches, I'm going to start sharing these stories,
Nicole York:which will become blog posts, and I'll use the images, I'll
Nicole York:also use the quotes from their reviews, and these things are
Nicole York:going to get disseminated all the way up to when the campaign
Nicole York:starts. Once the campaign starts, then it's going to be
Nicole York:behind the scenes, and it's going to be actually showing
Nicole York:real people and it's going to be etc, etc. So, I use Monday comm
Nicole York:because I found it to be one of the best program management
Nicole York:software's really helps me stay on board. And also, it also will
Nicole York:link to almost everything else you have, like your email
Nicole York:program, if you're using, you know, MailChimp or Klaviyo or
Nicole York:whatever you're using. So it really works throughout many
Nicole York:platforms. It gives you notifications, it keeps you on
Nicole York:target, when due dates are all of that good stuff. So when I'm
Nicole York:on my game, yes, I plan this thing out, I use a content
Nicole York:calendar, I also have a flowchart that reminds me how to
Nicole York:break up the content that I have into multiple pieces when I'm
Nicole York:doing other things. And I'm not focused on the marketing side of
Nicole York:my business or someone else's business. I get lazy as fuck.
Nicole York:And I just post what I want when I want. So keeping in mind
Nicole York:images, go on Instagram videos, go on tick tock, you know, just
Nicole York:the loose the loose parameters of those platforms. But yeah, it
Nicole York:is a spectrum. Yes, I do both. Clearly, the lazy stuff does not
Nicole York:work as well. So heads up if you decide to go to lazy route. It's
Nicole York:not great. But that's where my life is right now. So
Matt Stagliano:I think that's, I think that's pretty
Matt Stagliano:incredible. Actually, I mean, I love hearing you talk about
Matt Stagliano:this, you've you've given me that explanation several times
Matt Stagliano:about how you manage all of this content, how you break it down,
Matt Stagliano:how you repurpose it, how you have that forethought, to start
Matt Stagliano:with, for example, the tutorial and then create all those muddy
Matt Stagliano:river tributaries downstream. I don't think a lot of people look
Matt Stagliano:at content that way in the every day, right? Sure social media
Matt Stagliano:managers do. Absolutely. But I don't think a lot of people do.
Matt Stagliano:And it's, it's such a great point. Because if you do write a
Matt Stagliano:blog post, or you do have a good piece of content, sharing it
Matt Stagliano:across multiple platforms, or repurposing it for a different
Matt Stagliano:audience, adding a different caption, you know, if it's more
Matt Stagliano:of an artist, audience, you know, talking more about the
Matt Stagliano:technical aspects of it, if it's more of a retail audience
Matt Stagliano:talking about what it might mean to them to have images or pieces
Matt Stagliano:of art like that. I love repurposing content. I certainly
Matt Stagliano:don't do it enough. And it's something that I I'm green with
Matt Stagliano:envy when I see people doing it well. So, you know, it's just
Matt Stagliano:it's one of those things that I think people often look at
Matt Stagliano:content as a one and done. Oh, I put that on Instagram. I can't
Matt Stagliano:put it anywhere else. Or I wrote this thing on my blog, and I
Matt Stagliano:pushed on Facebook, but you know, I never took snippets of
Matt Stagliano:it. And now it does,
Nicole York:right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's we think about it.
Nicole York:It's a time killer, right? Like, when you have to create a brand
Nicole York:new thing for every platform that you're on, you never have
Nicole York:time to do anything else. Right? So you got to make the most of
Nicole York:those pieces of content that you have spent time on.
Matt Stagliano:Yeah, it's such a great point. All right. So we
Matt Stagliano:are God, we this hour flew by we've got about 10 minutes left
Matt Stagliano:or whatnot. And what I wanted to do is invite anybody up in the
Matt Stagliano:audience, if you have something you want to talk about in terms
Matt Stagliano:of tools or tactics, specifically, you know, the full
Matt Stagliano:philosophical stuff always gets interwoven into this
Matt Stagliano:conversation no matter what we do. But I'd love to hear some of
Matt Stagliano:the tactics and strategies or tools that you're using that you
Matt Stagliano:absolutely love doesn't have to be some some long explanation.
Matt Stagliano:So Erica, thankfully is coming up because she's amazing at what
Matt Stagliano:she does. Hi, Erica, talk to us.
Erika:Hi.
Erika:So I by no means have social media nailed, but as you may
Erika:suspect, I have it built into a process so it enables me to do
Erika:what I have done so far. So I always always put images both on
Erika:Facebook and Instagram and My clients expect that, like I even
Erika:tell them at the end of their session you can count on. You
Erika:know, when I'm done editing, you will see one on Facebook, one on
Erika:Instagram. And then I also put a larger number on my blog. So
Erika:they go to my blog, and they share the blog post, which helps
Erika:my SEO and, and helps other people see my website. So. So
Erika:I've done that from day one. And it has worked very, very well
Erika:for me. I do try to post different things on Facebook and
Erika:Instagram. And so, you know, and sometimes cross reference, like
Erika:you should go over to Instagram to see such and such. So
Erika:hopefully people are seeing at both places. I have gotten
Erika:better. However, I recognize the need for more, I'm awful at
Erika:Instagram Stories, I'm getting better at reels and I actually
Erika:enjoy them. And I have found that the reels live longer. And
Erika:you know, I've had something that I've posted and weeks later
Erika:suddenly takes off. So I can see how that can be beneficial. But
Erika:for my portrait audience, the the consistency has what has
Erika:sustained me year after year after year. I have done
Erika:collaborations in the past, I used to do something called
Erika:Senior Week. And quite frankly, it was exhausting. It was
Erika:expensive. And I did it I think the last time I did it was two
Erika:or three years ago. And I did like contests every day. And it
Erika:got you know, some new followers and it did get it generated a
Erika:buzz. But then the following year, I didn't do it. And my
Erika:sales for the year were higher. So I you know, I can't say that,
Erika:you know, my business hinges on social media, except for the
Erika:fact that I just need to constantly be in front of my
Erika:audience. If that makes sense.
Matt Stagliano:It does. And you do such a good job of it from
Matt Stagliano:the outside observing, you know, seniors are not my thing. And
Matt Stagliano:I'm always enamored by the the way that you engage with them. I
Matt Stagliano:did have one question, though, on your blog posts, right? So as
Matt Stagliano:you drive people over to your blog, and this is a kind of a
Matt Stagliano:nitpicky question, but when you are posting a blog on your site,
Matt Stagliano:are you adhering to any length of text? You need to get to 250?
Matt Stagliano:words? 600 words, 1000 words? What are you intermingling with
Matt Stagliano:the images on your blog? Because you know, according to one SEO
Matt Stagliano:versus another, they're going to recommend a minimum of 350 words
Matt Stagliano:of text so that it feels organic to Google. Do you do a whole lot
Matt Stagliano:of writing? And admittedly I haven't, you know, taken a deep
Matt Stagliano:dive into your blog. So I don't know. But do you adhere to a
Matt Stagliano:number of words amongst the images?
Erika:No, they're not. I that honestly, just because I don't
Erika:have time. So my my regular blog blog posts that are, you know,
Erika:the senior sessions which I blog, I'm using the term blog,
Erika:or blogging very lightly, because honestly, it is sneak
Erika:peeks. It is a blog post that has sneak peeks with a few words
Erika:at the bottom of the location of where I shot it, so seniors can
Erika:refer back to that to see some of the locations and then you
Erika:know, just keywords of, you know, where I'm located that
Erika:type of thing. It is less to try to reach a super high amount of
Erika:people it is more to reach my you know, little circle of
Erika:people because, you know, the the seniors and their parents
Erika:are sharing that blog post other seniors and parents are clicking
Erika:on that blog post and getting to my website. So it's not
Erika:necessarily that I want that I'm super concerned with, you know,
Erika:people in all of Ohio to to find me what I want is people similar
Erika:to the people that I've worked with to find me and for that
Erika:purpose, it works now I have it on my to do list to work on more
Erika:content driven blog posts, helpful information that can get
Erika:other people and hopefully drive more of that SEO but yeah, for
Erika:for my senior posts. They're literally the pictures and a few
Erika:words.
Matt Stagliano:Gotcha. Awesome. Thanks for that, Ari, I know
Matt Stagliano:that you've been waiting patiently. And that you also
Matt Stagliano:dropped a ton of information in the Facebook group. So thank you
Matt Stagliano:for that. But what's on your mind,
Ariel Schochet:I will keep it really tight. I just want to
Ariel Schochet:talk about the hashtag kind of the discussion from a little
Ariel Schochet:before, because I think I just want to try and frame it in a
Ariel Schochet:way that maybe, like, in the way that the light bulb went on for
Ariel Schochet:me. You know, if, if you look at what is the hashtag? And what's
Ariel Schochet:the whole point of it, a user comes on, you know, just like
Ariel Schochet:Nicole said, you know, why are they there? You know, in the
Ariel Schochet:goal is to help them get to you. And you need to put your head,
Ariel Schochet:what does a person put into the search function to get to you?
Ariel Schochet:And so what are they thinking about, you know, whatever type
Ariel Schochet:of thing it is, and the hashtag does two things. One is, it
Ariel Schochet:helps match the search to the result by identifying it. And
Ariel Schochet:secondly, it guides the algorithms, specifically on
Ariel Schochet:Instagram, to teach Instagram, how to respond to different
Ariel Schochet:people's search queries. And so you want to just have that in
Ariel Schochet:mind on any of the platforms, you know, even let's say
Ariel Schochet:something like Google or Amazon, you know, what's the difference
Ariel Schochet:between a search term, and a keyword, a search term on Amazon
Ariel Schochet:is a mom comes in, she wants to buy a baby gift. And if you're
Ariel Schochet:selling that baby gift, you want to advertise on, you know,
Ariel Schochet:however that person would describe it. And so, it's the
Ariel Schochet:exact same concept for, you know, trying to, you know,
Ariel Schochet:maximum to, to optimize your hashtags, and what have you.
Ariel Schochet:It's to your Instagram, doesn't just want engagement they want,
Ariel Schochet:Gooding doesn't just want you to stay on the site, like, like
Ariel Schochet:Nicole said, but they also want people to have the best user
Ariel Schochet:experience and to find what they want to find when they're
Ariel Schochet:looking for it. And to see what they want to see when they're in
Ariel Schochet:their feed. And so, um, you know, I really encourage
Ariel Schochet:thinking very carefully about, you know, we chat about using,
Ariel Schochet:you know, good hashtags, being consistent on them, so that the
Ariel Schochet:algorithm doesn't get confused. And even if you're putting
Ariel Schochet:different types of content up, trying to stay consistent to
Ariel Schochet:your hashtags, so that the algorithm and your customer
Ariel Schochet:base, you know, finds you and you you call prominently on
Ariel Schochet:there. And so, again, each each one, each platform has different
Ariel Schochet:algorithms, and I'm just speaking to Instagram, you know,
Ariel Schochet:here, but the concept is the same whether it's, you know,
Ariel Schochet:Instagram, Pinterest, or what have you. And I just, I guess,
Ariel Schochet:you know, a lot of times people think of hashtags is like, you
Ariel Schochet:know, something Qt or something like that. It really is a guide
Ariel Schochet:to help Instagram. And as the middle person shouldn't say
Ariel Schochet:middleman, right? As the as the middle is the intermediary is
Ariel Schochet:the gender neutral term, as the intermediary between the user
Ariel Schochet:and the person who's the Creator, and to help them get
Ariel Schochet:the perfect match, which is what Instagram ultimately wants. And
Ariel Schochet:I am sorry, I hope that was helpful. I am complete.
Matt Stagliano:Alright, that was great. And I think it's, it
Matt Stagliano:ties together a lot of the things that we've talked about
Matt Stagliano:here, which is, know your audience think like your
Matt Stagliano:audience, right? Are you trying to impress other artists? Are
Matt Stagliano:you trying to impress other photographers? Are you trying to
Matt Stagliano:bring business through the door? Are you trying to get clients or
Matt Stagliano:you're trying to get exposure? What's your intention for what
Matt Stagliano:it is you're posting, understand that the algorithm needs to
Matt Stagliano:learn what you want, as well as linking up the people that have
Matt Stagliano:the common interests that might be out there using a certain
Matt Stagliano:hashtag. So know the algorithm, know your audience, know your
Matt Stagliano:algorithm. Lastly, know who you are, know what your voice is,
Matt Stagliano:and understand what each platform is for, understand why
Matt Stagliano:you're posting on that platform. And like Nicole mentioned
Matt Stagliano:earlier, you know, repurposing the same content in different
Matt Stagliano:ways for different platforms to reach an audience in a different
Matt Stagliano:way, right, they're going to reside in different places. So
Matt Stagliano:tailor your content towards that. None of this is
Matt Stagliano:necessarily groundbreaking Lee new information. However, it's
Matt Stagliano:good to think about as you're posting, whether it's a blog, or
Matt Stagliano:whether it's Instagram or Facebook, whether you're posting
Matt Stagliano:on any one of these platforms, understanding the intention, the
Matt Stagliano:why the how always helps out so make some tweaks and see where
Matt Stagliano:you go. Yep. But for I
Ariel Schochet:can just circle the wagons. And one thing also
Ariel Schochet:is that you know how you say different platforms and
Ariel Schochet:different users and different needs and what have you, in
Ariel Schochet:terms of like what I was saying yesterday about having the
Ariel Schochet:concentric circles of the users that, you know, maybe someone
Ariel Schochet:starts on your newsletter, a blog, and then you, you bring
Ariel Schochet:them up to a mastermind, you bring them to a group thing,
Ariel Schochet:they then they get individual thing, or whatever it is,
Ariel Schochet:however it works for your situation. It's the same exact,
Ariel Schochet:it's the same concept in terms of what you're suggesting, with
Ariel Schochet:those different platforms to and if you're always thinking about
Ariel Schochet:where your concentric circles are, and your goal to be
Ariel Schochet:constantly moving them, you know, more towards the center,
Ariel Schochet:which is direct interaction with you, you know, to be conscious
Ariel Schochet:of that. And I think it's a great way to think about it.
Ariel Schochet:Thank you. Thank you.
Matt Stagliano:I think that's a great point. And thanks for the
Matt Stagliano:reminder. Ari, Becca, Nicole, any final thoughts before we
Matt Stagliano:wrap this up, we're here at the end of the hour, I can't believe
Matt Stagliano:it went this quickly. I can't believe Nicole, that you let me
Matt Stagliano:ramble on this long. But I will give it over to you for any
Matt Stagliano:final thoughts.
Bekka Bjorke:can talk about social media all day. But I will
Bekka Bjorke:go ahead and drop some links to some hashtag and kind of tools
Bekka Bjorke:in the Facebook group, just you can kind of get a better look
Bekka Bjorke:for how hashtags are related to each other. And you know, again,
Bekka Bjorke:looking at them as a sense of community and what those
Bekka Bjorke:communities are interested in. And kind of what they're talking
Bekka Bjorke:about. So I will drop those in Facebook in a couple minutes.
Nicole York:I'm getting water out of my fridge. So just to get
Nicole York:to that. That's what it is. See if there was Santa fridge
Nicole York:closing. So yeah, I mean, as for final thoughts for me, I would
Nicole York:just say, ultimately, at the end of the day, remember that
Nicole York:you're, you're talking to people through a medium. And each
Nicole York:medium requires a different thing. What I do here on
Nicole York:clubhouse is not the same thing that I do when I'm writing a
Nicole York:blog, the approach has to be different, because the medium
Nicole York:demands that that's what you do. But at the end of the day,
Nicole York:you're always talking to a person. And you know, at the
Nicole York:beginning of this conversation, Matt, you mentioned that there's
Nicole York:always some tension there for you between, you know, wanting
Nicole York:to be authentic, but also kind of finding yourself falling into
Nicole York:that I also must be professional voice and you know, all of those
Nicole York:kinds of things. And I think it's just important for us to
Nicole York:remember that at the end of the day, people connect with people.
Nicole York:And if you talk to folks, the way you would want somebody to
Nicole York:talk to you, you're going to get a better result. Because humans
Nicole York:are social animals, we need one another one of our deep needs is
Nicole York:to be liked and accepted by the groups that were in. And if you
Nicole York:talk to people, like they're human beings, and like, you
Nicole York:could build a relationship with them, the response is always
Nicole York:going to be better than when you you know, well. The book said
Nicole York:this, and I should use these kinds of words, and I should
Nicole York:etc, etc. Not saying that there's not something to learn
Nicole York:there, there absolutely is you can grab books like words that
Nicole York:sell or phrases that sell and things like that, because, you
Nicole York:know, those, those are gonna kind of help you with your your
Nicole York:phrasing and all that good stuff. But at the end of the
Nicole York:day, you have to talk to people like our people, and you're
Nicole York:communicating with them through a medium. Just keep that in
Nicole York:mind. Because sometimes these conversations, particularly if
Nicole York:you leave here and you go look for, you know, a guru, it's not
Nicole York:that they're going to give you bad advice. But the way that
Nicole York:they're going to talk is as if these people that you're
Nicole York:speaking to are numbers that you're trying to reach, and not
Nicole York:human beings with valid emotions, experiences, et
Nicole York:cetera, et cetera, which is, I think, why what he said is so
Nicole York:important. Instagram wants users to have a good experience. And
Nicole York:they can tell whether or not people have a good experience
Nicole York:with you on how often they come back to you how long they stay
Nicole York:with you. How long they view your things. Do they share it?
Nicole York:Do they save it, all that kind of stuff. So the more you treat
Nicole York:your content, like it's meant for consumption by people, real
Nicole York:people, I think the better off you're going to be.
Matt Stagliano:I think that's a great way to end it for today.
Matt Stagliano:Because tomorrow, I'm sure we'll be talking about more of this
Matt Stagliano:kind of stuff. But to everybody that did join us in the audience
Matt Stagliano:and for the people that have just stopped by one more
Matt Stagliano:reminder that the link right above all the moderators goes
Matt Stagliano:directly to our Facebook group. If you would like to join the
Matt Stagliano:Facebook group, all you have to do is click on that link, send
Matt Stagliano:us a request. We'll let you in it. Private because we want to
Matt Stagliano:keep this community nice and tight like we have here in the
Matt Stagliano:clubhouse in the morning. If you are in the Facebook group go
Matt Stagliano:ahead and post some more thoughts some you know after
Matt Stagliano:hours thoughts about social media and we try to keep some of
Matt Stagliano:that conversation going. If you have any questions if you have
Matt Stagliano:any additional thoughts, please leave them there. But outside of
Matt Stagliano:that, we will be back tomorrow morning at 9am Eastern 8am In
Matt Stagliano:the other timezone and then seven and then six and then
Matt Stagliano:wherever you are in the world just calculated based on East
Matt Stagliano:Coast time because I can't do it Nicole does in her head. So
Matt Stagliano:we'll be back like we are every morning until then please go
Matt Stagliano:create something wonderful and have an amazing day. See you
Matt Stagliano:tomorrow. Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse
Matt Stagliano:discussion moderated by all of us at the artist Forge. We hope
Matt Stagliano:you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a
Matt Stagliano:little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more
Matt Stagliano:episodes, please join us each week day on clubhouse or visit
Matt Stagliano:the artists forge.com and go make something incredible
