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Published on:

6th Jan 2022

How to Approach Social Media; Part One

Marketing via social media can seem like an overwhelming prospect. What do we post, on which platform, and how do we take advantage of the current algorithms? More importantly, how do we even develop social media strategies for our artist's brands? In this introduction to social media, learn how successful artists use platforms effectively.

Transcript
Matt Stagliano:

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

Matt Stagliano:

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

Matt Stagliano:

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

Matt Stagliano:

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

Matt Stagliano:

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

Matt Stagliano:

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

Matt Stagliano:

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

Matt Stagliano:

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

Matt Stagliano:

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

Matt Stagliano:

us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.

Nicole York:

Alright, Joe, welcome to Morning walk and

Nicole York:

photo talk with the artists Forge. I am out and moving this

Nicole York:

morning, a sky is a really dark Periwinkle. And there's just

Nicole York:

some hints, beginning hints of magenta in the clouds on the

Nicole York:

horizon. So when the sun eventually does come up, it

Nicole York:

should be very pretty. So I got that going for me this morning.

Nicole York:

I'm glad you are here with us today, as artists all across the

Nicole York:

country getting together, talking about the things that

Nicole York:

drives us forward, not just in our careers, but as people as

Nicole York:

artists in the way we think. And the thing is that we do. And

Nicole York:

today, we're going to begin a short series for the rest of the

Nicole York:

week talking about social media, there are just a lot of things

Nicole York:

to break down in that conversation from how we choose

Nicole York:

which platforms to use. How do we post? How often do we post?

Nicole York:

What do we post? Where do we post it? Do we boost it? Do we

Nicole York:

do advertising? And the algorithms Oh God, the

Nicole York:

algorithms? How do we approach paying attention? And using

Nicole York:

these platforms? And also, how do we measure success? Because

Nicole York:

it's very easy to look at somebody who has 100,000

Nicole York:

followers and think well, they have made it. But of course,

Nicole York:

there's other questions involved too. Like, how engaged are their

Nicole York:

followers, as their click through when they're trying to

Nicole York:

do something like run an advertising campaign or, you

Nicole York:

know, get out messaging? What kind of response do you need,

Nicole York:

from people on social media? How can you make sure that you get

Nicole York:

it? There's just a big, complex ball of issues there to untangle

Nicole York:

and unravel. And Matt shared a post in the Facebook group

Nicole York:

yesterday, just asking folks, hey, what do you think? How do

Nicole York:

you approach this. And so we thought this would be a really

Nicole York:

great opportunity to institute a new tactic that we're going to

Nicole York:

try so that we can make sure that we really get as much out

Nicole York:

of each topic as we can. And it can be really easy for us just

Nicole York:

to go like, Hey, today, here's the topic of conversation. But

Nicole York:

instead, what we're going to do is start taking the broad

Nicole York:

approach, and then slowly drilling down and looking at

Nicole York:

things like first, if we're to look at a topic broadly, what

Nicole York:

does that look like? Second, if we are to look at the topic from

Nicole York:

the perspective of what is my own personal engagement like?

Nicole York:

And by that I mean, is there a certain mindset that is healthy?

Nicole York:

Or useful to have in this situation? How do I approach

Nicole York:

this from a personal, emotional, psychological perspective? And

Nicole York:

then what are the practical applications of the thing that

Nicole York:

we're talking about? And how can we do the things that result in

Nicole York:

the results that we want? It was a little bit of a convoluted way

Nicole York:

to say that. But if you're still here with me, I think you

Nicole York:

understood, and then finally, just being able to get down to

Nicole York:

the minutiae, and wrap everything up at the end of the

Nicole York:

week. So hopefully, that will help us actually get the most

Nicole York:

out of each subject that we talked about. And be able to

Nicole York:

walk away not only with a good stance for where we need to be

Nicole York:

psychologically, and emotionally, etc, but also for

Nicole York:

the practical applications of the things that we're talking

Nicole York:

about. So we can institute those things in the coming weeks. So

Nicole York:

I do want to have a little segue, though, because this is

Nicole York:

something I don't want to forget to talk to you all about. And it

Nicole York:

does apply to the conversation today. I'm reading the book

Nicole York:

atomic habits by James clear. I know I've mentioned this a

Nicole York:

couple times. And I happened to read a part last night that not

Nicole York:

only I thought was applicable today, but also it's just

Nicole York:

applicable in general. As artists I know we can often feel

Nicole York:

like we are trudging along, trying to make progress, either

Nicole York:

personally or in our skill sets. emotionally, psychologically,

Nicole York:

getting over our issues, all those kinds of things. And

Nicole York:

oftentimes, it can feel like we're not getting anywhere, when

Nicole York:

in fact, what we're doing is actually building up a

Nicole York:

foundation under ourselves. So that once we reach the line

Nicole York:

where that progress becomes visible, it kind of skyrockets.

Nicole York:

And there's a couple of ways that the author explained how

Nicole York:

this works. If you're the kind of person who can picture this

Nicole York:

one, it might help if not, I have one more example. So

Nicole York:

imagine a graph, and on the bottom is time. And on the top

Nicole York:

is progress toward your goal, we expect for some reason that our

Nicole York:

growth should be linear. So it should be starting in the

Nicole York:

corner, and then turning up at about 45 degrees toward the

Nicole York:

other side in a predictable line, right? That that is what

Nicole York:

our growth should look like when in fact, our growth is actually

Nicole York:

much more like an exponential curve. So it stays very close to

Nicole York:

the bottom for a long time. And then all of a sudden, as we're

Nicole York:

starting to get towards the end, it just skyrockets into the air.

Nicole York:

And if you have ever tried to build something like a YouTube

Nicole York:

channel, or really build your Instagram, to the point where

Nicole York:

people are just following without, like all of the hard

Nicole York:

leg work from you, you'll recognize this, I've talked to a

Nicole York:

lot of people who have seen this happen. And they said, You know,

Nicole York:

I had nothing for three years, I'm making content, I'm engaging

Nicole York:

with my community, I'm doing all of this stuff. I'm barely

Nicole York:

getting any followers, I'm slowly like creeping up a little

Nicole York:

bit at a time. And then all of a sudden, once I hit the 5000,

Nicole York:

follower mark, my subscribers just skyrocketed. And you know,

Nicole York:

all of these things happen. So it seems to be a really common

Nicole York:

story, that that's the experience that people have as

Nicole York:

they're trying to grow not only in social media, but in their

Nicole York:

skill sets, in their reputation, etc. And then the other example,

Nicole York:

just in case, the first one isn't the kind of thing you can

Nicole York:

visualize. The other example is, imagine that you have an ice

Nicole York:

cube that you want to melt, you start heating that ice cube, it

Nicole York:

goes from 25 degrees, all the way up to 31 degrees. And you're

Nicole York:

like, man, I've heated it up so much, why isn't it melting yet.

Nicole York:

And all of a sudden, once you hit 32 degrees, the melting

Nicole York:

begins. And it's not that that progress didn't matter, you

Nicole York:

still have to go from 25 all the way up to 32 degrees, before

Nicole York:

anything can happen. But the difference that one degree

Nicole York:

difference between 31 and 32 is where the progress starts to

Nicole York:

become visible. It was all made before that, but it wasn't

Nicole York:

visible yet. So in a way, you're storing all of this progress to

Nicole York:

the point where it becomes visible. And I bring that up at

Nicole York:

the very beginning. Because number one, I didn't want to

Nicole York:

forget it. And number two, because I think that's going to

Nicole York:

be applicable in our conversations about social

Nicole York:

media, because this is not, this is not a sprint, right? Anytime

Nicole York:

that we're trying to use a platform for personal gain or to

Nicole York:

build community or to be able to, you know, reach many

Nicole York:

followers with information about our business, it's going to be a

Nicole York:

long term game, we're going to have to put in a lot of work

Nicole York:

beforehand. And it can very much feel like you're not getting

Nicole York:

anywhere, when in fact, you are there's a labyrinth reference

Nicole York:

for those of you who know.

Nicole York:

So just keep that in mind as we have the conversations for the

Nicole York:

rest of this week. That No, you are not going to see your

Nicole York:

followers skyrocket in a couple of days, you're not gonna see

Nicole York:

subscribers shoot through the roof. It's going to take laying

Nicole York:

the groundwork and building some of those foundations before we

Nicole York:

start to see all of the good things that come from that.

Nicole York:

Alright, so getting into the meat of the conversation for

Nicole York:

today, social media, what do we do? What do we do about it? So

Nicole York:

today is just going to be the broader overview on approach. So

Nicole York:

what is this stuff good for? And how should we kind of center

Nicole York:

ourselves to approach social media? Because there are a lot

Nicole York:

of different ways that we can approach this system from a

Nicole York:

spray and pray perspective from Let me test out this thing one

Nicole York:

at a time and see which platform works to what's my philosophy

Nicole York:

here? How do I want to approach and choose? How do I even know

Nicole York:

where people are at? So I know that we have a lot of folks here

Nicole York:

in our Clubhouse that are amazing at social media. And so

Nicole York:

we want to make sure we were able to bring everybody up, but

Nicole York:

of course I want to begin by chatting with the mods this

Nicole York:

morning, of course, I need to make your mods, y'all can slap

Nicole York:

me. But when let me start. Yeah, I was actually gonna ask you if

Nicole York:

you wanted to start.

Matt Stagliano:

Yeah, I was gonna jump in and try to give a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit more context to the posts that I put in the Facebook

Matt Stagliano:

forum. And it really came from the standpoint, I've been doing

Matt Stagliano:

something online since 1998. or there abouts. I'm

Matt Stagliano:

extraordinarily familiar with building websites, doing

Matt Stagliano:

marketing, running social media for clients, as well as myself,

Matt Stagliano:

all the tools that are out there, all the management tools

Matt Stagliano:

that are out there, I'm very, very well versed in it. However,

Matt Stagliano:

I'm also because of that paralyzed at doing it myself, I

Matt Stagliano:

have an absolute galactic sized loathing for what social media

Matt Stagliano:

is, and the necessity of it in our businesses, I cannot stand

Matt Stagliano:

it. I really hate the fact that it's something that we have to

Matt Stagliano:

do, because I don't believe in how it treats people. I think it

Matt Stagliano:

it turns us into things that we're not inauthentic beings. So

Matt Stagliano:

that all being said, I know it's necessary for me to be able to

Matt Stagliano:

use social media effectively, to promote my business to gain

Matt Stagliano:

followers to gain clients to gain notoriety, all of those

Matt Stagliano:

things, right. So when I approach social media, I want to

Matt Stagliano:

do it in the most efficient way possible. I am not a big spray

Matt Stagliano:

and pray type of guy, I want to be able to do things in a way

Matt Stagliano:

that is methodical, that has a certain workflow that has

Matt Stagliano:

generally predictable results, not necessarily guaranteed

Matt Stagliano:

results. I mean, this is kind of the stock market, right? So what

Matt Stagliano:

I want to do is find the techniques that best work for my

Matt Stagliano:

business for photography is going to be certainly different

Matt Stagliano:

than a brick mason, and what they do online. So I know that

Matt Stagliano:

with us being a visual medium, I'm trying to find the best

Matt Stagliano:

techniques that people have used to help them grow. I am not

Matt Stagliano:

looking for someone that does overnight success. I'm not

Matt Stagliano:

looking for a guru. I'm just trying to hear anecdotal stories

Matt Stagliano:

from what people have done. So that I can take some of those

Matt Stagliano:

tips and see if I can work it into my workflow. My approach to

Matt Stagliano:

social media is going to be different than cats or Becky's,

Matt Stagliano:

or Eric is. And that's perfectly okay. I'm just trying to figure

Matt Stagliano:

out what works for other people. So if that is very tangible, I

Matt Stagliano:

do three stories a day and one post and two reels and a blog

Matt Stagliano:

post. Like that's the kind of tangible strategic stuff that

Matt Stagliano:

I'm trying to understand how people are doing it, there is no

Matt Stagliano:

one perfect way. So I'm just trying to get all the data that

Matt Stagliano:

I can and crafted into my strategy. So that was the the

Matt Stagliano:

the point of the post and Becca had a great point, which was,

Matt Stagliano:

you know, the past couple of years have changed behaviors of

Matt Stagliano:

how people use social media, how they're engaging online, who

Matt Stagliano:

they're engaging with how often all of those things, because

Matt Stagliano:

we're now more connected to our screens than ever. So if I can

Matt Stagliano:

understand a little bit more of that, then maybe that will

Matt Stagliano:

dictate my strategy as well. So that was the intent behind the

Matt Stagliano:

post. I hope that gives some context. And I can't wait to

Matt Stagliano:

hear what people have to say, no guru for

Nicole York:

you. I'm really glad that you clarified that.

Nicole York:

I'm glad that we were on the same page there because I was

Nicole York:

gonna snatch you up right away. And also, I'm glad that you

Nicole York:

mentioned the fact that you have loathing I mean, that's it.

Nicole York:

That's a strong word. But I feel either like serious distaste for

Nicole York:

social media. And I absolutely can identify, I love the fact

Nicole York:

that social media allows us to get together with very little

Nicole York:

effort. But I also hate the fact that social media has been built

Nicole York:

to turn us into little profit machines for not us, right? I

Nicole York:

mean, we can of course take advantage of it for profit, but

Nicole York:

it just kind of stinks that the way that it turns out is that we

Nicole York:

are the Prophet, our attention, our time, our eyeballs, our ad

Nicole York:

spend all that kind of stuff turns out to be the Prophet. So

Nicole York:

that part of it definitely kind of blows. And it does alter the

Nicole York:

way that we engage with one another in the way that we feel

Nicole York:

about those engagements. So I think that that's also something

Nicole York:

we're talking about, you know,

Matt Stagliano:

well, you know, I look at it like a friendship,

Matt Stagliano:

right. And that's generally why social media was created right?

Matt Stagliano:

If you remember Tom on mice face, you just want it to be

Matt Stagliano:

your friend. So I think when we look at it in the terms of daily

Matt Stagliano:

human interaction, my friends that I've known for my entire

Matt Stagliano:

life, or my college friends or my photography, friends, if I

Matt Stagliano:

don't talk to them for six months or eight months, no big

Matt Stagliano:

deal, you have a conversation, when you do get a chance to

Matt Stagliano:

catch up and everything's in lockstep, you didn't miss a

Matt Stagliano:

moment. However, we feel this need to constant li be

Matt Stagliano:

barraging, our friends with here's what I'm doing now, look

Matt Stagliano:

at me, I'm now making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And

Matt Stagliano:

now I'm out with the dog. And now I'm doing my business stuff.

Matt Stagliano:

If I stood on the corner of a street and just shouted stuff

Matt Stagliano:

into the air, people would think I was a crazy person. But we've

Matt Stagliano:

been conditioned to believe that this is what we need to do. So

Matt Stagliano:

I'm struggling with that in terms of not annoying people,

Matt Stagliano:

but also promoting myself enough to get the business going. So

Matt Stagliano:

it's just it's a very interesting relationship between

Matt Stagliano:

what we what we provide online versus how we interact with

Matt Stagliano:

people on a normal day to day human interaction standpoint. So

Matt Stagliano:

that's where I struggle, and I haven't crossed the bridge

Matt Stagliano:

between separating the two out, right, I still consider them

Matt Stagliano:

very much the same thing. And that's, I think, a stumbling

Matt Stagliano:

block that I hit

Nicole York:

for sure. And I think that that's why it's it's

Nicole York:

so great, you know, to get your thoughts there, and potentially

Nicole York:

begin with, is there a way that we can mentally reframe this, I

Nicole York:

mean, you know, when it comes to marketing, that's something I

Nicole York:

have to force myself to do. Because like you, it always

Nicole York:

feels like pushing yourself on people feels like pimping

Nicole York:

yourself, which I really have heavy distaste for. But if I can

Nicole York:

reframe that, if I can look at, you know, what is a way that I

Nicole York:

can look at this that is still accurate to the experience and

Nicole York:

the results, but does not make me feel so gross and slimy. What

Nicole York:

would that be, and for marketing, of course, the idea

Nicole York:

is that, if I really believe that what I'm giving to people

Nicole York:

is something that will add value to their life, I should be able

Nicole York:

to, number one, be excited about it. But number two, look at it

Nicole York:

as the opportunity to improve somebody's life, to give them

Nicole York:

the chance to add this thing to their life, that's going to make

Nicole York:

it better. And Megan DiPiro, has mentioned a few times the fact

Nicole York:

that the way that it works, we can often feel like what we're

Nicole York:

doing is shouting at the same people over and over again. But

Nicole York:

often, many of us will have enough friends or enough

Nicole York:

followers or subscribers or whatever, where many of them

Nicole York:

won't see what we share even the first couple of times. So that's

Nicole York:

something we're thinking about too. But I think the the main

Nicole York:

question is, is there any way that we can potentially reframe

Nicole York:

this issue? Because I know you're not the only one that has

Nicole York:

it? I have it as well, I don't love it, I have to force myself

Nicole York:

to do the things. And anytime I'm engaged with something I

Nicole York:

like, I will ignore social media completely, which obviously

Nicole York:

doesn't, it's not going to be very helpful for me. So how can

Nicole York:

we reframe this mentally? So that it's not such a drag? Or is

Nicole York:

that even possible? Is it just in the nature of the platform to

Nicole York:

not be something we're going to be able to like using? I mean,

Nicole York:

those are pretty important questions to begin with, you

Nicole York:

know,

Matt Stagliano:

oh, and that's why I wanted to bring the topic

Matt Stagliano:

up, right, I thought it was something that might help a lot

Matt Stagliano:

of people just think about it a little bit differently. And I

Matt Stagliano:

know that cat and Becca both have amazing followings. And,

Matt Stagliano:

you know, cat, especially, I look at your stuff, and I'm just

Matt Stagliano:

astounded at not only how authentic and engaging it is,

Matt Stagliano:

but the sheer volume of content that you create. And it's

Matt Stagliano:

impressive to me. And I know it's a lot of hard work. But I'd

Matt Stagliano:

love to hear you talk about not only your little bit of the

Matt Stagliano:

philosophy, but also how you approach it on a daily basis

Matt Stagliano:

time management, you know when to put things out, so on and so

Matt Stagliano:

forth. And I know you've talked about it before, but it bears

Matt Stagliano:

repeating.

Cat Ford-Coates:

I think it depends on the context of what

Cat Ford-Coates:

it is that that you're sharing. You know, like I just kicked off

Cat Ford-Coates:

the launch for season 240 over 40. So just about everything

Cat Ford-Coates:

that's going out right now has something to do with, you know,

Cat Ford-Coates:

enticement for that project. But you know, and I think I've

Cat Ford-Coates:

talked about this before, like it got to a point when I brought

Cat Ford-Coates:

on the associates I was like this account needs to not be

Cat Ford-Coates:

named after me. And so I created a personal account. So a lot of

Cat Ford-Coates:

like my stories and my sharing are really just like, this

Cat Ford-Coates:

morning I think I spent like 20 minutes on puppies doing things.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Like I just shared a couple reels from that because it just

Cat Ford-Coates:

made me laugh for you know, 20 minutes. But as far as like from

Cat Ford-Coates:

the business side perspective of sharing, you know, gap doesn't

Cat Ford-Coates:

care about whether or not I feel like they're blasting me. So if

Cat Ford-Coates:

I'm following the gap, like their stories, and their posts

Cat Ford-Coates:

are gonna be based around what it is that they want to sell me,

Cat Ford-Coates:

because I'm a small business, I like to include a lot less of

Cat Ford-Coates:

like the corporate slam, but the behind the scenes especially

Cat Ford-Coates:

engages really well. But also like interesting things that I

Cat Ford-Coates:

find out and about on my day, you know, and that might be a

Cat Ford-Coates:

bunch of mirrors I came across on a wall or you know, just

Cat Ford-Coates:

something that's aesthetically pleasing. And that's kind of how

Cat Ford-Coates:

I gear those things. And with the mentoring page, it's

Cat Ford-Coates:

primarily about, you know, like, Do I have something to say that

Cat Ford-Coates:

could be a value to you? And if yes, then that becomes a post.

Cat Ford-Coates:

But that it's interesting, because the engagement on the

Cat Ford-Coates:

mentoring page, like I think I maybe have, like under 1000

Cat Ford-Coates:

followers, but the engagement is really good. And I only post

Cat Ford-Coates:

like, when something comes to mind, it's not something I plan

Cat Ford-Coates:

out. But for the studio page that has like 5000 followers, My

Cat Ford-Coates:

engagements a lot less since I have been posting more, but my

Cat Ford-Coates:

followers and my direct messages have like gone through the roof.

Cat Ford-Coates:

So I'm just staying on that and trying to engage, like if

Cat Ford-Coates:

somebody comments on on one of my posts, I go back, and I

Cat Ford-Coates:

comment on theirs to help build their engagement. But as far as

Cat Ford-Coates:

time management, like forget it, like, it's always so I get up

Cat Ford-Coates:

and I spend about an hour hour and a half every morning, like

Cat Ford-Coates:

creating that volume, right. But then throughout the day, like

Cat Ford-Coates:

I'm picking up other video here and stills here, and you know,

Cat Ford-Coates:

like okay, and sort of thinking about planning for posts in the

Cat Ford-Coates:

future.

Matt Stagliano:

And I think one of the things that you said

Matt Stagliano:

there that's really, really important is when someone

Matt Stagliano:

comments on your stuff, you go to their posts and comment as

Matt Stagliano:

well. And I am so guilty of not doing that. And it's not other

Matt Stagliano:

than, you know, I don't want to go build their page, I just I

Matt Stagliano:

just don't think about it. It just doesn't occur to me. And I

Matt Stagliano:

feel like a piece of shit for not doing that. But I think it's

Matt Stagliano:

it's such a great technique for that back and forth.

Matt Stagliano:

Collaboration, you know, rising tide and so on and so forth. I

Matt Stagliano:

think that's a that's a great technique. And I didn't even

Matt Stagliano:

think about that little nugget. So thank you.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Yeah, it was actually something that G shared

Cat Ford-Coates:

a couple years ago when he took over the the TPM and was

Cat Ford-Coates:

building his because his social skyrocketed. He went from like

Cat Ford-Coates:

2000 followers to like 12,000 followers over the course of

Cat Ford-Coates:

like four months, there's just something insane. And I was

Cat Ford-Coates:

thinking about it the other day, and I was like, oh, yeah, go

Cat Ford-Coates:

engage with the people who engage with you. Because then

Cat Ford-Coates:

that it's not only about building their page, like, okay,

Cat Ford-Coates:

it helps their algorithm, but it helps yours too, because the

Cat Ford-Coates:

other people that see theirs, see your name in those comments.

Cat Ford-Coates:

They're like, Oh, I've seen that name before. What is that? Oh,

Cat Ford-Coates:

yeah, I saw that on something else. And you know, it just sort

Cat Ford-Coates:

of compounding interest goes,

Nicole York:

Yeah, that's a really super great point. I just

Nicole York:

want to say really quickly, Ariel, and Julia, I see you guys

Nicole York:

on there, we will grab you in just a little bit. So hang in

Nicole York:

there, because I know you have amazing things to share. And I I

Nicole York:

find it really interesting, you know, with this conversation,

Nicole York:

that cat you said, like time management. Like it's just

Nicole York:

always right. And I think that that goes back to the initial

Nicole York:

part of this conversation, which is a really important question

Nicole York:

to ask ourselves is when we're doing any kind of marketing,

Nicole York:

which being on social media is just being on it is marketing.

Nicole York:

Keep in mind marketing is the broad umbrella that describes

Nicole York:

the things that we do to engage with people. That is all the

Nicole York:

client facing stuff, right? All the things that people see that

Nicole York:

they will then relate back to you and your brand. Advertising

Nicole York:

is when you pay for placement of those things. So when you're

Nicole York:

doing any kind of marketing, you have to make some decisions.

Nicole York:

You're either going to spend money or time or both. And so

Nicole York:

how do you make the choice of where to be and how to do

Nicole York:

because Instagram could very easily take up your whole day.

Nicole York:

And if you become very successful on Instagram, that

Nicole York:

success doesn't doesn't just stay there and then Coast off

Nicole York:

into the future where you ride into the sunset on your 100,000

Nicole York:

followers and you don't have to to do anything anymore, right?

Nicole York:

It's not like you hit a benchmark, and all of a sudden,

Nicole York:

everything's golden. If you want to maintain that trajectory, you

Nicole York:

have to maintain the involvement. And that is true

Nicole York:

for any any place that we're at Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok,

Nicole York:

wherever you are. So how do we choose? And that's why I asked

Nicole York:

that philosophy question, Matt, because I'm curious, like, if we

Nicole York:

have to choose to be engaged somewhere, to the point where it

Nicole York:

is taking chunks of time out of our day, we probably should be

Nicole York:

considering that advertising time, and, or marketing time and

Nicole York:

removing that from our I mean, that that costs us right,

Nicole York:

whatever we would be making an hour, when we spend it there, we

Nicole York:

should be considering that because that is going to tell us

Nicole York:

what our cost per conversion is. So if it takes me five hours per

Nicole York:

day, on Instagram, I'm getting two turnovers and two people

Nicole York:

book, I may not actually be making my return on investment

Nicole York:

back. So where am I going to spend my day, and what is

Nicole York:

actually going to be worthwhile. Because as we were talking about

Nicole York:

before, this is another really important thing to consider. We

Nicole York:

have the goal, and then we have the system that helps us get the

Nicole York:

goal. The goal only exists for a few seconds of our life. But the

Nicole York:

system is how we live day to day. And I may not want to live

Nicole York:

the Instagram life, right? I'm just using this as this as an

Nicole York:

example. But doing Instagram every single day may make me

Nicole York:

just hate my life. On the other hand, maybe doing Snapchat or

Nicole York:

Tik Tok or whatever, I really can get down with that. And so

Nicole York:

maybe it's then a better idea for me to take some of those

Nicole York:

things into consideration and build a system where I can love

Nicole York:

the day to day usage, because I'm going to be spending a shit

Nicole York:

ton of time there, or potentially farming it out to

Nicole York:

somebody else. So that's kind of a thing. I'm really curious to

Nicole York:

see what you all think about? Is it just one of those things

Nicole York:

where we try stuff until we get success somewhere? And then we

Nicole York:

just have to teach ourselves to do it, whether we like it or

Nicole York:

not? Or is it a good idea to build a system for something

Nicole York:

that we might actually enjoy? I'm conflicted about those

Nicole York:

things. So Matt, do you think that that's an important thing

Nicole York:

to consider with the question that you're asking?

Matt Stagliano:

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think, you

Matt Stagliano:

know, I was living that, that life of always being on always

Matt Stagliano:

engaging, always posting it, I got burned out and just flat out

Matt Stagliano:

got burned out on it. So what I did was I got a system later.com

Matt Stagliano:

A lot of people use it, there's a million other management

Matt Stagliano:

software's out there. But I did not want to be spending hour

Matt Stagliano:

upon hour upon hour every day, creating content, figuring out

Matt Stagliano:

when to post, you know, so I looked at the analytics, and I

Matt Stagliano:

said, okay, my best times to post are 7am 2pm 9pm. And so I

Matt Stagliano:

use later to schedule posts. Now, admittedly, I have kind of

Matt Stagliano:

slacked off of that in the past month because of my

Matt Stagliano:

aforementioned loathing of social media in general. But

Matt Stagliano:

really, having a management software like that, where you

Matt Stagliano:

can spend a Sunday afternoon, spend a couple of hours program

Matt Stagliano:

all of your posts, and then not think about it during the week,

Matt Stagliano:

creates that space creates the efficiency for you to spend

Matt Stagliano:

those extra hours doing something that does benefit you,

Matt Stagliano:

that does make you feel a little bit better. And so I'm a big

Matt Stagliano:

proponent of coming up with systems like that. Now, that's

Matt Stagliano:

not to say that you can't interrupt the flow and put your

Matt Stagliano:

own stuff in there a new story or a new post, whatever. But if

Matt Stagliano:

you want to maintain any level of growth over time, it's got to

Matt Stagliano:

be consistent. And inconsistency will kill that if you're doing

Matt Stagliano:

one here, one there, you just won't see the return on it,

Matt Stagliano:

which is why cat has developed such an incredible following is

Matt Stagliano:

because of her consistency over and over and over. Whereas mine

Matt Stagliano:

stays stagnant and plateaus, because I'm only doing things in

Matt Stagliano:

spikes. They're like the dopamine hits every now and

Matt Stagliano:

again, you get a big spike, and then it goes away. So for me,

Matt Stagliano:

it's developing consistency. So the more tools that I can use,

Matt Stagliano:

the more processes that I can implement, so that I'm doing

Matt Stagliano:

intense bursts of concentrated effort to get my stuff

Matt Stagliano:

programmed, I can then step back and then only engage with the

Matt Stagliano:

comments. I don't have to think about captions. I don't think I

Matt Stagliano:

have to think about you know, the cohesion in the aesthetic of

Matt Stagliano:

my feed. I can just program it and then engage afterwards. So

Matt Stagliano:

that's been generally my approach but yeah, it's for me

Matt Stagliano:

it's a the the pendulum goes too far. One way or the other. I'm

Matt Stagliano:

either totally engaged working all the time, or I'm not engaged

Matt Stagliano:

at all, and I'm sitting on a desert island somewhere.

Cat Ford-Coates:

I think it's also important, you know,

Cat Ford-Coates:

Nicole, you brought up a couple of points there. One was, you're

Cat Ford-Coates:

either going to be spending time or money or both. And when we

Cat Ford-Coates:

look at things like social media, it's that necessary evil,

Cat Ford-Coates:

right? Like we're in a visual business. So we need those, we

Cat Ford-Coates:

need to be able to leverage those marketing platforms that

Cat Ford-Coates:

have as little monetary investment required, right, as

Cat Ford-Coates:

we're building business, versus like throwing money at Google

Cat Ford-Coates:

ads, or Facebook ads are getting into that space before we're

Cat Ford-Coates:

ready. But there's also that saying to like, if you have

Cat Ford-Coates:

time, you probably don't have money. And if you have money,

Cat Ford-Coates:

you don't have time. So which is it? Where do you want to

Cat Ford-Coates:

leverage either of those, those tools? And then the second piece

Cat Ford-Coates:

is also like, where do you want to put that energy, whether it's

Cat Ford-Coates:

time or money, or both, you know, like, if Instagram is just

Cat Ford-Coates:

a soul sucker for you, then that's probably not going to be

Cat Ford-Coates:

your space. For me, I actually can generate a lot of bounce on

Cat Ford-Coates:

Facebook. But because my my following on Facebook is

Cat Ford-Coates:

literally like a 5050 split between personal real life

Cat Ford-Coates:

connection family, friends, and then professional, like people

Cat Ford-Coates:

who are following me because of whatever versus, you know,

Cat Ford-Coates:

people that I'm actually close to. I'm very, very specific

Cat Ford-Coates:

about what I share. And were on Facebook, because I know that

Cat Ford-Coates:

that bottom dollar is going to come from Facebook, so I'm not

Cat Ford-Coates:

trying to blast people. Whereas on Instagram, like that, that

Cat Ford-Coates:

studio account really is like where that blast happens.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Because the children of the people that I'm connected with

Cat Ford-Coates:

on Facebook, or on Instagram, and they're going to be where my

Cat Ford-Coates:

dollars are coming from, for the next 10 years. So I want to make

Cat Ford-Coates:

sure that I have a strong presence on Instagram as they

Cat Ford-Coates:

grow into working with me. Whereas on Facebook, I'm going

Cat Ford-Coates:

to share stuff, but it's going to be a 5050 split between

Cat Ford-Coates:

personal and professional.

Nicole York:

Yeah, those are some good insights. And I would

Nicole York:

be really curious to hear with your presence on Instagram. Is

Nicole York:

that something that happened organically you went, ooh, I can

Nicole York:

get success here, double down really pay attention be

Nicole York:

purposeful? Or is that something you just really enjoyed

Nicole York:

Instagram, and so the engagement and everything became like a

Nicole York:

natural part of your enjoyment of the way that platform works.

Cat Ford-Coates:

I enjoyed Instagram when it when it came

Cat Ford-Coates:

out, you know, back in the days of prodigy and AOL. Um, but you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, I sat at like, 3000 followers for like, 100 years.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And it was just something I did out of unnecessary evil, but

Cat Ford-Coates:

there was no really defined purpose for it. It hasn't been

Cat Ford-Coates:

until the last few months that I've been, like, you know, what,

Cat Ford-Coates:

if I'm going to continue putting effort into this platform, then

Cat Ford-Coates:

I need to make it successful. When you start looking at things

Cat Ford-Coates:

like sponsorships, and Ambassador opportunities, that

Cat Ford-Coates:

kind of thing. Which are, like, a little closer now than they

Cat Ford-Coates:

were a couple of years ago. Their bonus structures based on

Cat Ford-Coates:

your social media following. And there, you know, those bonus

Cat Ford-Coates:

structures are in addition to any baseline contract. So my job

Cat Ford-Coates:

now is to be really intentional about building that engagement

Cat Ford-Coates:

and building that that following, so that when the time

Cat Ford-Coates:

comes for, you know, pen coming to paper, I want to be able to

Cat Ford-Coates:

leverage that for additional revenue for the business. Right?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Really good

Nicole York:

stuff. So for you, it just has become a normal part

Nicole York:

of the things that you do and it's not something you pick up

Nicole York:

and go, Oh, God, I gotta fucking do this thing. Because that is

Nicole York:

how I feel. Man, I don't know if that's how you feel but I'm

Nicole York:

picking up and I'm like, I don't want I'm sure that that

Nicole York:

translates to people like I'm sure that they see me show up

Nicole York:

and disappear again and be like, well, she doesn't really care to

Nicole York:

be here. I mean, I will engage with anybody who comments on my

Nicole York:

stuff. But that's why clubhouse has been an everyday thing for

Nicole York:

me. I get to engage with people directly and personally and

Nicole York:

nobody else is profiting off of it. Right. So I'm, I'm really

Nicole York:

curious about that. You know, how you how you flip that

Nicole York:

mindset so that you are not looking at it like you hate the

Nicole York:

thing or is it just a natural thing for you that you didn't

Nicole York:

have to go through at all? Well,

Cat Ford-Coates:

I so Oh, sorry, man. Oh, God, I

Matt Stagliano:

was actually going to give you props because

Matt Stagliano:

I think it's something that you say all the time is, What's your

Matt Stagliano:

intention? What's your intention of using the platform that

Matt Stagliano:

you're on? Right. So I was a co CEO of a company, an online

Matt Stagliano:

magazine couple years back. And we did a lot of analytics, we

Matt Stagliano:

did a lot of engagement metrics and performance indicators, so

Matt Stagliano:

that we could leverage that we could leverage our reach and

Matt Stagliano:

work for sponsors. And we were bringing in a couple $100,000 In

Matt Stagliano:

sponsorships a year. And it was great because we could show

Matt Stagliano:

directly on paper, what our reach was doing for other brands

Matt Stagliano:

and for the platform in general. And we did this across Instagram

Matt Stagliano:

and Twitter and Facebook. And so doing that what Kat was just

Matt Stagliano:

talking about, really settles into What's your intention? Why

Matt Stagliano:

do you want to use the platform? Is it just to grow people and

Matt Stagliano:

get notoriety from clients so that there's, you know, people

Matt Stagliano:

coming through the door? Is it endorsements? Is it that you

Matt Stagliano:

want to be the star of your brand, and you want something

Matt Stagliano:

for yourself to grow beyond what it is that your art is, and you

Matt Stagliano:

want to be the center of that? That's perfectly fine. Every one

Matt Stagliano:

of those is a valid way to approach social media. It's just

Matt Stagliano:

what's your intention with it, so that you're not just slinging

Matt Stagliano:

stuff at a wall thinking, you know, I have to do this out of

Matt Stagliano:

obligation. Make sure that everything is intentional. I'm

Matt Stagliano:

sorry, cat go right ahead.

Cat Ford-Coates:

No, I'm a big fan of intention, but also

Cat Ford-Coates:

understanding, you know, like, there's a couple things, one

Cat Ford-Coates:

profits, not a dirty word. Now, do I understand that in social

Cat Ford-Coates:

media that I am the product that's being sold as I'm selling

Cat Ford-Coates:

other things, of course, they do. totally get it. And I get to

Cat Ford-Coates:

determine when I draw the line on that too, which is where that

Cat Ford-Coates:

like, Okay, I'm not engaging with Instagram, today, I'm

Cat Ford-Coates:

turning my phone off, I'm going out into the woods, and I'm just

Cat Ford-Coates:

chilling the fuck out. But I also understand that when I'm

Cat Ford-Coates:

looking at my intention of what I want the future to look like,

Cat Ford-Coates:

I know that social media primarily outside of being a

Cat Ford-Coates:

product that is being sold to other other people. I also

Cat Ford-Coates:

understand that that brand awareness does convert to an

Cat Ford-Coates:

ROI, whether that's through bookings or otherwise. But when

Cat Ford-Coates:

I have the intention of looking at things over the next three

Cat Ford-Coates:

years, and going, Okay, I want to be able to leverage all of

Cat Ford-Coates:

this work and this time in this energy, so that I can set the

Cat Ford-Coates:

stage for that future growth beyond just bookings with local

Cat Ford-Coates:

clients that I'm looking at the bigger picture of where I want

Cat Ford-Coates:

my business to go. And that allows me to stay sorry, it was

Cat Ford-Coates:

getting a call. But that allows me to step out of the space of

Cat Ford-Coates:

it being this like, Oh, my God trudging I just want to shoot

Cat Ford-Coates:

myself in the face into, okay, there's a long game I'm playing

Cat Ford-Coates:

here. And that brand awareness is good for that immediate

Cat Ford-Coates:

audience, right? But then that audience is going to grow as

Cat Ford-Coates:

your business grows. And that turns into those endorsements

Cat Ford-Coates:

and those things down the line. So how, how can you set the

Cat Ford-Coates:

stage now, to be able to take advantage of those opportunities

Cat Ford-Coates:

when they're presented to you? And that's how I look at social

Cat Ford-Coates:

media?

Nicole York:

For sure, okay. So much good stuff already, y'all I

Nicole York:

want to make sure that we grab a seat, we're gonna grab Ariel

Nicole York:

Juliet, we lost you. Oh, no. If you still want to come up,

Nicole York:

please raise your hand and I will grab you. We're grabbing.

Nicole York:

Ari, and do you see grabbing you as well. I hope everybody is

Nicole York:

popping up. There we go. And Juliette, if you want, if you

Nicole York:

still have something you want to share, we'd love to grab you up

Nicole York:

here. So let's hear from Ari, what are your thoughts on this

Nicole York:

whole social media conundrum?

Ariel Schochet:

Hey, I will pre apologize today's election day,

Ariel Schochet:

two little boys running around. One just for some reason, walk

Ariel Schochet:

in the room naked. I don't know why three year old, but um,

Ariel Schochet:

hopefully I'll be able to get through what I want to say, you

Ariel Schochet:

know, it's not often I get to, you know, come up and talk

Ariel Schochet:

about, you know, something that that that is that I can add add

Ariel Schochet:

value to So, I really want to try and get over a couple

Ariel Schochet:

things. I see you there, buddy. Give me two minutes. Okay. Um,

Ariel Schochet:

you know, a couple things I wanted to mention, you know, you

Ariel Schochet:

know, first of all, each of the platforms that you mentioned,

Ariel Schochet:

Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Snapchat, tick tock. They all

Ariel Schochet:

have lots in common, but what they have it's very different

Ariel Schochet:

are different algorithms. And I just want to try and stress from

Ariel Schochet:

my experience and from what I've learned Over the last several

Ariel Schochet:

months, on clavos, you know, doing a lot of work and

Ariel Schochet:

listening to a lot of people talk about this subject in

Ariel Schochet:

different contexts, isn't, it's just crucial to have, you know,

Ariel Schochet:

a guru in your corner, who understands how each one of the

Ariel Schochet:

algorithms works. Because if you do the same types of things, and

Ariel Schochet:

each of the platforms, you're not going to get the same

Ariel Schochet:

results, because the algorithms work differently. And so just as

Ariel Schochet:

an example, you know, Nicole, I think, man, he both talked about

Ariel Schochet:

how you'll show up, you know, for a little bit, and then

Ariel Schochet:

disappear, what have you, you know, that's not your your

Ariel Schochet:

results from that is not a function of how your your

Ariel Schochet:

followers are reacting or followers may be really excited,

Ariel Schochet:

oh, I'm thrilled just to get anything from them. You know, I

Ariel Schochet:

value when they when they speak, but they just might not see it,

Ariel Schochet:

because of how the algorithm treats you. And so what I've

Ariel Schochet:

heard a lot about in terms of a couple of people on and

Ariel Schochet:

clubhouse that I've spent a lot of time with learning about this

Ariel Schochet:

is just how important it is. And I'll just use a small example,

Ariel Schochet:

like on Instagram, the hashtags are very important, very, very

Ariel Schochet:

important to teaching the algorithm what you're interested

Ariel Schochet:

in, and the interaction metrics are also very important. Whereas

Ariel Schochet:

that might not be as important on something like Facebook, or

Ariel Schochet:

what have you. And so it sort of leads to the next point I wanted

Ariel Schochet:

to make, which is that, you know, look, you're, you're all

Ariel Schochet:

creative creators, and it makes perfect sense that, you know, I

Ariel Schochet:

can get, I mean, I'll use my language that I'm used to the

Ariel Schochet:

dopamine hit, or the excitement of doing something like this,

Ariel Schochet:

because it's not the creative, it's not the type of creativity

Ariel Schochet:

that you're accustomed to, they get you going. And so, you know,

Ariel Schochet:

there's been a little bit of talk about, I'm not sure what he

Ariel Schochet:

said, I didn't see but, you know, if you have the money,

Ariel Schochet:

then you don't have the followers and vice versa, it

Ariel Schochet:

costs a very, very small amount of money to outsource some of

Ariel Schochet:

the basic parts of this, that can really help you. And when I

Ariel Schochet:

say a small amount of money, I mean, like the cost of a latte a

Ariel Schochet:

week. And, you know, the site that I recommend the most is

Ariel Schochet:

Upwork. And there are people that will help you be consistent

Ariel Schochet:

with the out, you know, as pertains to that particular

Ariel Schochet:

algorithm that you're targeting, to, you know, like the, just as

Ariel Schochet:

an example, and again, I don't know this to be the, I'm just

Ariel Schochet:

using it as an example. But, you know, like the put like the

Ariel Schochet:

comments, write a small response, write a small response

Ariel Schochet:

on somebody else's page, what have you. And, you know, I would

Ariel Schochet:

treat that as a marketing expense. But really, it's so

Ariel Schochet:

important, I think people especially solopreneurs that and

Ariel Schochet:

that's more of my Valleywag, not necessarily photography, so

Ariel Schochet:

don't recognize how cheap it is, and you're not providing slave

Ariel Schochet:

labor, you're providing a I mean, the people that do this

Ariel Schochet:

impact in, in the Philippines and what have you are

Ariel Schochet:

tremendously, you know, the cost of living there is is is very,

Ariel Schochet:

very low, and they're very well paid. Just by by, by the work

Ariel Schochet:

that they get on companies like up work. Um, you know, one

Ariel Schochet:

analogy I'll give from my background as an investor is

Ariel Schochet:

that when I would go to a biotech company that had the

Ariel Schochet:

cure for cancer, and then the guy who invented the science

Ariel Schochet:

made himself CEO, that would be a company I would never buy,

Ariel Schochet:

because his skill set is science, not in running a

Ariel Schochet:

company and your skill sets, you know, the, is in the creativity

Ariel Schochet:

and the creative process in the making, you know, making a

Ariel Schochet:

photography and what have you.

Unknown:

Not necessarily in the, you know, mastering the

Unknown:

algorithms of the difference of the different platforms. And so,

Unknown:

you know, I'm not going to, you know, give names here, but

Unknown:

certainly, there are two people on our Clubhouse that are

Unknown:

really, really good at this. They do free rooms, one every

Unknown:

week, they one three days a week. And then and I've never

Unknown:

paid a penny for any of that just to interact with them and

Unknown:

to learn and they're very enthusiastic people. If you're

Unknown:

interested in semi backchannel or semi these are going to be

Unknown:

happy to provide the information. And, you know, I

Unknown:

guess I just wanted to say one more thing, I apologize for

Unknown:

taking up too much space. But this is something I'm fairly

Unknown:

passionate about because I've become close to so many creators

Unknown:

on cavas have helped me and I want them to succeed and I want

Unknown:

to see them, you know, blow up their business and in one

Unknown:

example, the one of the creators that I'm closest to and then my

Unknown:

Just rooms and what have you not having any qualifications

Unknown:

whatsoever other than, you know, just being a potential client.

Unknown:

Um, you know, in the last four months, he's He's taken his

Unknown:

Instagram from 900 followers to 17,000. And it's, you know, what

Unknown:

you were the analogy you gave about the graph and the ice cube

Unknown:

melting. The the main point of those, both those examples are

Unknown:

the momentum. And also the fact that just the science of it,

Unknown:

right, like the the, the ice starts to melt becomes water,

Unknown:

that water contributes to the further melting of the ice

Unknown:

because the more we temperature. And finally, finally, I just

Unknown:

wanted to give one more resource. I met a, I was on a

Unknown:

venture capital webinar a few months ago, and met a very, very

Unknown:

engaging person who speaks a lot about how to segment your

Unknown:

business. And this, I think, is one of the main things that sort

Unknown:

of overrides all the different questions with the social media,

Unknown:

which is, you know, you need to have client segmentation, you

Unknown:

know, the people that are engaging with you, because they

Unknown:

like you, the people that are engaging you, but aren't really

Unknown:

ready to pull the trigger, but you want to keep you know,

Unknown:

develop them as clients. And to think of it as these concentric

Unknown:

circles. And you're always trying to move people from the

Unknown:

outer lay outer rings to the inner rings. And, again, I'm not

Unknown:

going to promote them on here. But if you're interested in that

Unknown:

concept, he has a free book that you can just go to his website

Unknown:

and get free shipping, I was ready to buy it straight out.

Unknown:

He's very, very, very engaging guy. And I really learned a lot

Unknown:

from him. And so again, if any of those things are interesting

Unknown:

or resonate, feel free to reach out, I'm happy to, to pass it

Unknown:

on. And I think I hit all my notes aren't even very

Unknown:

completed. Thanks.

Nicole York:

Well, that was some great stuff already. Thanks for

Nicole York:

sharing. And you're absolutely right, I think that's an

Nicole York:

important thing for us to keep in mind is that it's not

Nicole York:

necessarily the followers that we have to be concerned about in

Nicole York:

their responses. That's how we're treating the algorithm and

Nicole York:

if it is getting what it needs from us, so that it will treat

Nicole York:

us the way that we were hoping for, and get us in front of the

Nicole York:

people we want to see. And, and you know, you have a very fair

Nicole York:

point about the fact that for many of us, for many of us

Nicole York:

creators, the business side or the marketing side, is just not

Nicole York:

something that's easy to force ourselves to be actively engaged

Nicole York:

with in a way that's productive. I found that's why people like

Nicole York:

cat are so inspiring, and that she has both of those things. I

Nicole York:

do not. And so it certainly becomes a battle for me And your

Nicole York:

point is very well taken. You know that that outsourcing for

Nicole York:

the parts that feel like drudgery to me, may be able to

Nicole York:

give somebody else a very good living. So it's certainly worth

Nicole York:

certainly worth thinking about. And y'all Please Like he said,

Nicole York:

feel free to message me if you're curious about any of the

Nicole York:

folks that he was talking about. They may be incredible resources

Nicole York:

for you. So want to make sure that we get to Derek's thoughts

Nicole York:

as well. And then I'd love to hear from you, Matt at the end

Nicole York:

to kind of close things up and how you're feeling about today's

Nicole York:

conversation and where we should be looking for tomorrow. Derek,

Nicole York:

please go ahead.

Derek:

One, everybody has it. And I'm not on here every single

Derek:

day. So if you guys have already covered this apologies, has

Derek:

anybody done created their own story brand script or anything

Derek:

off the marketing made simple platform?

Matt Stagliano:

Yeah, actually, Derek, I've been involved with

Matt Stagliano:

Dawn since pretty much the beginning of story brand. And so

Matt Stagliano:

yeah, I'm very, very well versed in that.

Unknown:

So he could probably speak to this pretty well, too.

Unknown:

I mean that because I'm I'm starting to adopt it on my own.

Unknown:

I've been listening to this podcast for months, and started

Unknown:

my own story brand scripts, but it's, it's been helpful for me

Unknown:

to, it's allowing me to wrap my head around what I'm doing. I

Unknown:

mean, I'm I provide Drone Services. So it's different from

Unknown:

some of the fine art stuff. But at the same time, it's like

Unknown:

somebody out there needs something. It's a really new

Unknown:

technology. So it's not something that everyone's

Unknown:

familiar with and what it can do to benefit them. So I've been

Unknown:

trying to figure out for like, the last year and a half, like

Unknown:

how do I market myself to folks. So when I started listening to

Unknown:

this, a lot of things just made more sense because it just

Unknown:

breaks it down into those seven steps of you know, it brings a

Unknown:

lot of the whys and why it's beneficial to you and not so

Unknown:

much putting you at the forefront of it but putting

Unknown:

whoever your client is or whoever your potential client

Unknown:

is. So like for instance like Nicole like you, you know you've

Unknown:

got an incredible portfolio and Your work is so vibrant and so

Unknown:

imaginative. It's just in, you're really engaging on social

Unknown:

media, which is one of the reasons why you're one of my

Unknown:

favorite follows, as, and I would love to just know more

Unknown:

some of the inside baseball on like, why, you know, why is it

Unknown:

so important for a client to be able to benefit from your work

Unknown:

and who are the people that are really benefiting from that. And

Unknown:

I just think through that, and having an avenue, whatever one

Unknown:

of your channels is, that helps get that word out the best,

Unknown:

whether it be your, you know, whether it be your own Facebook

Unknown:

feed, or whether it be any newsletters or any other

Unknown:

blogging that you're doing, and being able to share that. That

Unknown:

to me is just pure gold. Because I'm, you know, I don't know

Unknown:

what, you know, why I would want to have incredibly imaginative

Unknown:

photos, you know, my business, if I was a larger company, but

Unknown:

then being able to create that use case or be able to create

Unknown:

that case, like, that stops me in my tracks. And I'm like, huh,

Unknown:

like this is give me some completely different to think

Unknown:

about, and that in itself, like the educational piece of that,

Unknown:

and also just create, like walking them through the whys of

Unknown:

it. That is, I see that is so much more beneficial than the

Unknown:

Hey, look at me posts. Now you specifically Nicole, but just

Unknown:

the you know why? You know, the thing that we all struggle with

Unknown:

on Instagram, where it's like, Hey, I took some great photos,

Unknown:

and I'm gonna post them up and hashtag the crap out of them.

Unknown:

And then hope that somebody that I'm not, you know, isn't

Unknown:

currently employing me, we'll do that. So I error that keeps

Unknown:

people want to gauge and also creates the whys of it and

Unknown:

creates a little bit more of like a connection point to why I

Unknown:

would want to hire somebody.

Nicole York:

That was really great Derrick. And I know Matt

Nicole York:

has mentioned storebrand before, it's been something I've been

Nicole York:

intending to look into. And so that is a good catalyst for me

Nicole York:

to go pay attention to that. So I appreciate that. And also, I'm

Nicole York:

really, really glad. I'm really, really glad that you enjoy

Nicole York:

hanging out, it makes me really happy. But that's yeah, that's

Nicole York:

that's absolutely something to think about. In moving forward

Nicole York:

and, and into some of the practical aspects of when we're

Nicole York:

engaging, how we're doing it, and what the intention is behind

Nicole York:

it. So well, well said, and I'm definitely taking those points

Nicole York:

to heart. So as we're nearing the end, I really would love to

Nicole York:

hear from you, Matt. And I know that we obviously this is a

Nicole York:

really big conversation, y'all. And we're not going to get to

Nicole York:

all the points of it today. This is going to continue on for a

Nicole York:

few more days this week. So we can get to those practical

Nicole York:

aspects that you were talking about Matt, you know, how do you

Nicole York:

build the framework for this? And be able to actually use it.

Nicole York:

So but I'd love to hear from you. As we end today's

Nicole York:

conversation, and prepare for getting into some more details

Nicole York:

tomorrow.

Matt Stagliano:

Yeah. And you know, I wanted to thank Derek as

Matt Stagliano:

well, for bringing up story brand, I think that ties into

Matt Stagliano:

the larger conversation of social media, which is being

Matt Stagliano:

clear clarifying your message so that your clients know exactly

Matt Stagliano:

what you do. So that there is no question. And going through that

Matt Stagliano:

story brand framework going through basically the Joseph

Matt Stagliano:

Campbell, you know, hero's journey, sort of thing condensed

Matt Stagliano:

for business, is an exercise that I believe everybody should

Matt Stagliano:

go through to clarify their messaging. Now. How does that

Matt Stagliano:

relate to the rest of everything else? Originally, at the

Matt Stagliano:

beginning of this conversation, I wanted to talk tactics I

Matt Stagliano:

wanted to talk, how many posts are you putting in per day? And

Matt Stagliano:

you know, how long is your caption and how many hashtags

Matt Stagliano:

and all the tactical stuff? And I don't think I think I was I

Matt Stagliano:

was getting a little bit ahead of myself there. Because I don't

Matt Stagliano:

think you can get into those strategies, until you have a

Matt Stagliano:

good foundational philosophical approach to why you're doing it,

Matt Stagliano:

the intention of it all. And again, I'll stress this over and

Matt Stagliano:

over and over. What works for me will not work for you will not

Matt Stagliano:

work for cat will not work for Nicole, like everybody's

Matt Stagliano:

business in approach and personality. And online presence

Matt Stagliano:

is going to be different. Are there common threads that we can

Matt Stagliano:

probably share that help with some of that? Absolutely. Right.

Matt Stagliano:

That's why there are gurus that's why there are courses on

Matt Stagliano:

this stuff. However, we need to internalize that unless we have

Matt Stagliano:

a clear intention of why we're doing it unless we have a clear

Matt Stagliano:

message that we're trying to convey. Even if that is just

Matt Stagliano:

hey, look at my pretty image. Unless we have those things in

Matt Stagliano:

place. What we do is not going to matter. So I would love to

Matt Stagliano:

see this conversation start to get into You know, almost case

Matt Stagliano:

studies, hey, here's what I did. And here's what happened from

Matt Stagliano:

it, failures, successes, all of that sort of stuff is insanely

Matt Stagliano:

intriguing to me. So I think, you know, now that we've built

Matt Stagliano:

this foundation of why and knowing about algorithms and

Matt Stagliano:

knowing about different platforms. Now, where do we take

Matt Stagliano:

this and say, Okay, if I've got a large following, here's what

Matt Stagliano:

happens. If I'm struggling to get 100 followers, maybe here

Matt Stagliano:

are some of the things that we can do. And I don't want to say

Matt Stagliano:

that I'm a guru on any of this. But I'd love to pull from the

Matt Stagliano:

collective hive mind here and understand what some people are

Matt Stagliano:

doing, and then find those common threads. So that's it,

Matt Stagliano:

Nicole, I think this has been an amazing first step in all of

Matt Stagliano:

this.

Nicole York:

I'm so glad to hear that. And I think you're

Nicole York:

absolutely right. I think, you know, anytime we take on this

Nicole York:

kind of tasks, where we need to build something, it's really

Nicole York:

important for us to set ourselves up and understand why

Nicole York:

we're doing a thing first. And, and, you know, going back to

Nicole York:

recognizing who we are, and what kinds of things we're the most

Nicole York:

drawn to that are going to be the least painful. And by that I

Nicole York:

mean, you know, here, being with you all in the morning on

Nicole York:

clubhouse is so easy, right? I love you guys, everybody who

Nicole York:

comes and hangs out here in the morning is a brilliant mind. And

Nicole York:

so so many kind people who really are here, to try to put

Nicole York:

some good back into the world and help other people. So

Nicole York:

engaging this way, making this a normal part of my day is almost

Nicole York:

effortless. I don't have to talk myself into it or go God. Now

Nicole York:

it's time to go hang out with those jerks on clubhouse right?

Nicole York:

I love being here with you guys. And so this has become a really

Nicole York:

painless way to engage with with people that I really like. And

Nicole York:

it's easy for me to frame it that way, in my mind. And for

Nicole York:

each of us, I think we're going to have some strengths that lend

Nicole York:

us to work better with certain platforms, right? There are some

Nicole York:

folks who they just really love making video content. Of course,

Nicole York:

they're they're happy to engage and they love the YouTube

Nicole York:

community. But even if nobody was engaging, the act of making

Nicole York:

the video content is still something that they enjoy doing.

Nicole York:

They love the process as well. And so having that affinity for

Nicole York:

that the way that the platform works, seems like it makes it

Nicole York:

easier for folks to be able to stick that out over that long

Nicole York:

term that it takes to grow to where they're trying to get to.

Nicole York:

And, you know, you may find that Facebook comes easy to you and

Nicole York:

Twitter is just the pits the seventh pit of hell. Or maybe

Nicole York:

Twitter is like you can rock star on Twitter, but trying to

Nicole York:

force yourself to get on Instagram. It's like pulling

Nicole York:

teeth. And I think it's important for us to know those

Nicole York:

things about ourselves. Because we engage differently there.

Nicole York:

Like Ari was saying the algorithms are different there.

Nicole York:

And some things may just end up being a natural, better fit. And

Nicole York:

so I think, you know, that's why today's conversation was so

Nicole York:

important. It's good for us to understand our intentions, to

Nicole York:

understand ourselves and know, you know, where we might be a

Nicole York:

good fit, I don't think it's a bad idea to give everything a

Nicole York:

try until you go okay, this is not for me. Because if somebody

Nicole York:

was going to try to force me to become the Twitter Guru, I would

Nicole York:

pull all my hair out and disappear from the face of face

Nicole York:

of the earth. I just am I just don't love the platform. I don't

Nicole York:

love the way the interactions work. And the threads are

Nicole York:

confusing for me. And just the way that it all works. I just

Nicole York:

don't love it. But something like this, obviously, like I was

Nicole York:

saying before is a whole different story. So when we're

Nicole York:

approaching, you know, the rest of the conversation and getting

Nicole York:

into those details that you were talking about Matt, you know,

Nicole York:

these case studies and then of course, ending the week with

Nicole York:

these practical applications. How can we build the frameworks

Nicole York:

that we're going to use to be able to approach social media in

Nicole York:

a way that serves us keeping in mind who we are and what works

Nicole York:

for us and our intentions? What do we want this to be? Is this a

Nicole York:

brand thing? Is this mostly a sales thing? Am I trying to

Nicole York:

build a community which is what we have here and it's amazing

Nicole York:

and what we're slowly starting to build in a you know, Facebook

Nicole York:

land. That may be the answer for me, right? The answer for me

Nicole York:

maybe if I can build community, that's where I'm happiest

Nicole York:

getting to know people and being involved in their lives and all

Nicole York:

those kinds of things. That may be the answer for me. So that's

Nicole York:

something we have to look at and get settled in our mind as we

Nicole York:

move through the rest of the week. Look at these case

Nicole York:

studies. Look at the practical Applications figure out you know

Nicole York:

where we're going to go and how we're going to make it work. So

Nicole York:

huge thanks to everybody that participated today, all of your

Nicole York:

insights. I'm very sad that Becca didn't speak today. I

Nicole York:

don't know if that's because we crowded you out back or if he

Nicole York:

just didn't really have much to say today, but I feel very bad

Nicole York:

now. Well, I'm happy just to listen, it was going on lately,

Nicole York:

but um, yeah, I'll be here all week, kids. Sweet. Okay, want to

Nicole York:

make sure that we get to hear from you tomorrow. Oh, Jean,

Nicole York:

looks like Eugene has got a final thought. So we'll hear

Nicole York:

from you real quick. And then we'll get ready to say goodbye.

Gene Sizemore:

I just wanted to say that, you know, I took a

Gene Sizemore:

second or two to kind of check out everyone social media since

Gene Sizemore:

we were talking so much about it. And I love following all of

Gene Sizemore:

you guys. And so I'm always interested in what you guys

Gene Sizemore:

doing, how you're doing it. And I just want to thank cat for a

Gene Sizemore:

side railing that entire exercise by posting all the

Gene Sizemore:

puppy videos. So I got completely soaked into that got

Gene Sizemore:

what I was there to do. So anyway, point made.

Nicole York:

Right on. Alright, so So be thinking about that

Nicole York:

today. If you're in the Facebook group, the link is up top. If

Nicole York:

you're not, you can scroll up and grab that link and go hang

Nicole York:

out with us and Facebook landed his private group, we want to

Nicole York:

make sure that it stays a safe place for everybody to engage.

Nicole York:

So we can go and hang out there. We can talk more about social

Nicole York:

media, what we're doing what's worked, what's not worked, I'm

Nicole York:

going to share the a couple examples of those graphs that I

Nicole York:

was talking about. And a couple quotes from the book that I

Nicole York:

think are really germane to beginning this conversation. And

Nicole York:

we hope that you'll show up again tomorrow morning as we

Nicole York:

continue to talk about social media, and bring with you your

Nicole York:

thoughts, your examples. And let's see what we can put

Nicole York:

together and hopefully by the end of this week, each of us

Nicole York:

will feel like we're a little bit more on solid footing and

Nicole York:

motivated to move out into social media land and make stuff

Nicole York:

happen. So have a fantastic day, everybody. I'll see you bright

Nicole York:

and early tomorrow morning at 7am Mountain Standard Time that

Nicole York:

six for the West Coast nine for the East Coast afternoon for our

Nicole York:

friends overseas. And in the meantime, go make something

Nicole York:

amazing. Have a great day, y'all.

Matt Stagliano:

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

Matt Stagliano:

discussion moderated by all of us at the artist Forge. We hope

Matt Stagliano:

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

Matt Stagliano:

episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit

Matt Stagliano:

the artist forge.com Go make something incredible

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About the Podcast

Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge
How to Critique Art
Learn how mindset, creativity, and visual literacy will help you think like an artist so you can create work you love and build a career that matters; bridging the gap between technique and art.

About your host

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Nicole York