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Published on:

24th Jan 2022

Fear of Success

Learn to stop sabotaging yourself so you can walk into success with confidence.

Why do some artists fear success and sabotage their careers? All of us are comfortable with the familiar experiences of day-to-day life, but success has the tendency to change everything--forcing us to be uncomfortable as we grow--and require more from us than we are afraid we're willing to give.

Our assumptions of what success looks like, and the fear of not meeting expectations can motivate us to give up before we can take the steps that will get us there.

Transcript
Matt Stagliano:

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

Matt Stagliano:

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

Matt Stagliano:

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

Matt Stagliano:

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

Matt Stagliano:

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

Matt Stagliano:

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

Matt Stagliano:

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

Matt Stagliano:

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

Matt Stagliano:

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

Matt Stagliano:

us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.

Nicole York:

Welcome, everybody, so glad to see your amazing

Nicole York:

faces this morning. As we get into the rest of the week, I

Nicole York:

can't believe tomorrow is already Friday. But today, we're

Nicole York:

gonna be talking about fear of success, which sounds like a

Nicole York:

pretty strange thing when you think about it, because who

Nicole York:

could be afraid of succeeding in something they really want to

Nicole York:

succeed at. But it is reality strangely enough. And as last

Nicole York:

week, we talked about external conflicts and how we can deal

Nicole York:

with that and get to the kind of conclusion that we want. This

Nicole York:

week, we've been focusing on the internal conflicts, the things

Nicole York:

that make everything difficult for us. And well, when we kind

Nicole York:

of step in our own way. And that can be a really hard thing to

Nicole York:

deal with. It's one thing when you've got somebody you know,

Nicole York:

that you can talk to and say, Hey, man, what's going on with

Nicole York:

this, but that's a whole nother thing when you have your own

Nicole York:

brain turned against you. So earlier this week, I asked all

Nicole York:

of our friends, what are some of the things that you struggle

Nicole York:

with? internally? What are some of the things that you have a

Nicole York:

hard time dealing with or that stop you from, you know, moving,

Nicole York:

where you want to go with your career with your art, all that

Nicole York:

stuff? And we got a lot of answers naturally, as artists,

Nicole York:

we tend to struggle just a bit with our insides, which

Nicole York:

sometimes makes us a little more likely to be neurotic. So yeah,

Nicole York:

yeah, um, sissala, who is with us today, if you can come up,

Nicole York:

she is the one who mentioned fear of success as one of those

Nicole York:

things that we fight with as artists and creators and

Nicole York:

business people. So I'd love to hear from you a little bit more.

Nicole York:

Kind of what that looks like for you. When you say fear of

Nicole York:

success. What do you mean? Let's elucidate it a little bit, and

Nicole York:

then get into the discussion, who all is having a hard time,

Nicole York:

like pushing themselves past that point. And, and moving into

Nicole York:

their success confidently. If you have already done this

Nicole York:

today. You know, if you have dealt with fear of success in

Nicole York:

the past, and you have pushed through and you have kind of

Nicole York:

gotten over that hurdle, we'd love to hear from you a little

Nicole York:

bit later. So be prepared for that. But in the meantime, since

Nicole York:

I've sent you an invite, so if you'd like to come up and let us

Nicole York:

know a little bit more when you say fear of success, what does

Nicole York:

that mean? How does that feel? If not, I can I can explain a

Nicole York:

little bit. But I've gone ahead and sent you an invite, just in

Nicole York:

case. And while we're waiting to see if she can come up Becca

Nicole York:

Hello, how are you this morning?

Nicole York:

Becker can't come to the phone either. Okay, says Well, I see

Nicole York:

that you got the invite. Alright. So glad to see you. I

Nicole York:

would love to hear. What do you mean, you mentioned fear of

Nicole York:

success. What does that actually look like? Like for you? How

Nicole York:

does that feel?

Sissela:

Oh, it feels horrible. It feels like self sabotage. It

Sissela:

feels I think the best analogy that I've used to describe it

Sissela:

with is I'm in a bird cage. So very pretty cage. It's very

Sissela:

comfortable. All the things that I know are around me. And the

Sissela:

door to this cage is wide open. I just have to stand them the

Sissela:

ledge and decide to fly. But the thing about this cage is I know

Sissela:

it it's familiar. It's comfortable. I don't know what's

Sissela:

outside of that cage. I don't know what will wait for me. I

Sissela:

don't know what success actually looks like. So I'm afraid of

Sissela:

jumping and letting myself fly. I am also afraid of what it will

Sissela:

mean for my current lifestyle because I'm comfortable like I

Sissela:

am. I have this and negative self narrative of being lazy,

Sissela:

which actually is laziness is just stems from from being on

Sissela:

diagnosed with ADHD for a long time. And I'm a master

Sissela:

procrastinator, and all these wonderful things that make so I

Sissela:

need a lot of downtime, I need a lot of recuperation. I can't

Sissela:

take three five clients in a day. That to me is insane. I can

Sissela:

barely take one a week. So having that makes me feel lazy.

Sissela:

And so well, if I'm successful, then I can't be can't allow

Sissela:

myself to be lazy, then I need to hold myself to certain

Sissela:

standards. And I have this doubt in me that I'm able to do that

Sissela:

though I know that I can. I still am afraid of taking that

Sissela:

jump, because it means that I'm going to be out of my comfort

Sissela:

zone, I'm going to be uncomfortable. And I have a very

Sissela:

hard time being in discomfort. So that's basically what it

Sissela:

looks like to me. And it means that I do a ton of self sabotage

Sissela:

a ton of it. And a lot of it is is without me knowing, like on a

Sissela:

subconscious.

Nicole York:

Sure. So it sounds like the fear of success in your

Nicole York:

case sounds like it's actually a conglomeration of several

Nicole York:

things, right. It's that that safety zone, that comfort zone,

Nicole York:

the familiarity, it's also that internal narrative that you

Nicole York:

have, and recognizing that, or at least telling yourself, I

Nicole York:

mean, it's not necessarily true that you would be required to do

Nicole York:

more than one shoot a week, right? Perhaps you account for

Nicole York:

that in pricing or, or other things. But you're telling

Nicole York:

yourself that if you did, then this is what it would have to

Nicole York:

look like in order for you to be successful. So it sounds like

Nicole York:

it's kind of a combination of some assumptions that you have

Nicole York:

about what a successful life looks like. And then also that

Nicole York:

fear of stepping outside of the comfort zone and maybe losing

Nicole York:

everything that you have built for yourself so far.

Sissela:

Exactly. Now, mind you, I'm very good at stepping out of

Sissela:

my comfort zone. So there's none of this, that actually makes

Sissela:

sense. I moved to a different country, very uncomfortable. So

Sissela:

there was no, there was no sense in it. There's no logic in it.

Sissela:

It is all negative self talk, all these inner insecurities

Sissela:

that are popping their ugly faces, and saying, Hi, we are

Sissela:

here, you're not allowed to progress from here. And you need

Sissela:

to work through us before you can level up. Right.

Nicole York:

And I think he said something that I think is really

Nicole York:

important too, for folks to remember. So if you're just

Nicole York:

joining us today, this week, we're talking about internal

Nicole York:

conflicts and the things that we personally struggle with, on our

Nicole York:

journey toward becoming the kind of artists creator business

Nicole York:

person that we want to be. And today's topic is fear of

Nicole York:

success. And we're diving into that a little bit and finding

Nicole York:

out what that looks like and sissala, you just mentioned the

Nicole York:

fact that you're really, really good at moving outside of those

Nicole York:

comfort zones in certain areas. And I think it's important for

Nicole York:

us to remember that if we struggle in a certain place,

Nicole York:

that doesn't necessarily mean that that mindset is the same

Nicole York:

all across the board, right, we really do exist on a spectrum.

Nicole York:

So while we might have a growth mindset, or white, while we

Nicole York:

might be really comfortable moving past our struggle points

Nicole York:

in other areas of our life, I have something similar to you,

Nicole York:

where I will cut off all my hair like I will, I will cut it all

Nicole York:

off. So there's, you know, almost nothing left, but I have

Nicole York:

a really hard time dyeing my hair, I thought it would be so

Nicole York:

cool to have like purple hair, or maybe you know, pink hair or

Nicole York:

something. But there's something in me that tells me I'm just not

Nicole York:

a cool enough person to pull that off. Like, cool. People can

Nicole York:

have colorful hair. I'm just not cool enough for that. I don't

Nicole York:

know why that maintains. I'll chop it all off. But I can't dye

Nicole York:

it even though it can be dyed back. There's just something in

Nicole York:

there that that puts up a wall. And you've been able to move to

Nicole York:

an entirely different country and build a life and a career

Nicole York:

for yourself. And yet, this idea of success of pushing to that

Nicole York:

point where you can look at yourself and say I am

Nicole York:

successful, is really, really hard. And so for everybody who

Nicole York:

is listening today, it's important to remember that we

Nicole York:

can't blame ourselves. And think that because a rule applies in

Nicole York:

one area of our life, it should equally apply in all areas of

Nicole York:

our life because that's just not the case. That's not how our

Nicole York:

experience or our brains work. And I do want to say something

Nicole York:

as well before we continue just really diving into this topic.

Nicole York:

People.

Nicole York:

Be gentle with yourselves. When we have conflict or

Nicole York:

confrontation we have to have with somebody else, a client, a

Nicole York:

loved one, a co worker, a friend. We're really often

Nicole York:

careful about what we say and how we approach those

Nicole York:

confrontations because we care about that person, we don't want

Nicole York:

to hurt them. We want to try to maintain a relationship, we want

Nicole York:

the end result to be good for everybody. When we're talking

Nicole York:

about these internal conflicts that we have, let's extend

Nicole York:

ourselves the same courtesy. Be gentle with yourself, don't be

Nicole York:

mean to yourself. Don't berate yourself, if this is something

Nicole York:

that you struggle with, every time it pops up in your head,

Nicole York:

stop saying to yourself, how you're such a loser, how can you

Nicole York:

still be fighting with this issue, etc, etc, etc. Don't do

Nicole York:

those things. Okay? Be gentle with yourself, you're much, much

Nicole York:

more likely to be able to move past your struggles. If you give

Nicole York:

yourself some grace, and you understand that what's going on

Nicole York:

is natural. And that you should not be blamed, you should not be

Nicole York:

shamed, especially by yourself. Okay. All right. So let's see if

Nicole York:

we can tackle these issues that sissala is having one at a time.

Nicole York:

And if you have struggled in the past, with this fear of success,

Nicole York:

hopefully, you recognize some of these things in yourself and

Nicole York:

some of the conclusions that we come to where the ideas that we

Nicole York:

get, maybe those things can help you as well. So I think the

Nicole York:

first thing that we really want to look at here is comfort

Nicole York:

zones, right. And it's really incredibly, really incredibly

Nicole York:

difficult for us to push ourselves outside of our comfort

Nicole York:

zones. There are psychological and physiological reasons for

Nicole York:

this. One is that when you look from an evolutionary

Nicole York:

perspective, you recognize that our brains main goal is to keep

Nicole York:

us alive. And familiarity, often means safety. Because you're

Nicole York:

able to react to situations in your familiar place, you know

Nicole York:

what's about to happen, you can predict the outcome. And so that

Nicole York:

means safety. When we step outside of comfort zones, we're

Nicole York:

stepping into the unknown, we're stepping into danger, there are

Nicole York:

potential dangers there that we cannot predict. And we can't

Nicole York:

always predict the outcome. And so our brain will very quickly

Nicole York:

step in and start giving us all of the negative things that

Nicole York:

could potentially happen. If we take this risk, everybody's

Nicole York:

gonna laugh at you, nobody's gonna understand your work,

Nicole York:

nobody will buy, this market is too saturated. For a

Nicole York:

photographer, like you, nobody will buy this kind of work,

Nicole York:

you're going to invest your life savings, and then you'll have

Nicole York:

nothing. There are just so many different things that your brain

Nicole York:

could potentially come up with, to convince you that this idea

Nicole York:

is going to fail, because its main goal is to keep you

Nicole York:

somewhere safe. So first, we need to understand that that is

Nicole York:

a thing. Because if we don't recognize that part of our

Nicole York:

psychology, that there's nothing malevolent in it, it's literally

Nicole York:

purely just self protection, then we may think that there's

Nicole York:

something wrong with us that other people don't have these

Nicole York:

feelings, but we do. And that's just not the case, everybody

Nicole York:

will have some resistance to moving outside of their comfort

Nicole York:

zone. And like sissala said, she didn't really have, you know,

Nicole York:

she was able to move past that when it came to things like

Nicole York:

moving to a new country. But in this area, where a big part of

Nicole York:

our self identity lies, the idea of taking that risk and

Nicole York:

disappointing ourselves is a whole different ballgame. So I

Nicole York:

just wanted to make sure that we look at those two things before

Nicole York:

we get started. And I would love to hear first from the rest of

Nicole York:

the panelists. Do you guys deal with a sphere of success with

Nicole York:

this resistance to stepping outside of your comfort zones

Nicole York:

and pursuing that thing that you want? And if you do, what are

Nicole York:

some ways that you get past that?

Matt Stagliano:

So fear of success is a huge thing that

Matt Stagliano:

I've uncovered in my world. And it was really only through a lot

Matt Stagliano:

of work over a lot of years, that I was able to identify it.

Matt Stagliano:

And part of that identification, like you said, you know, our

Matt Stagliano:

brains are trying to keep us comfortable, but you have to

Matt Stagliano:

look at it's very easy. I shouldn't say it's very easy to

Matt Stagliano:

go on WebMD and be like I've got a sniffle. And suddenly you've

Matt Stagliano:

got pancreatic cancer, right? Just because you started looking

Matt Stagliano:

at symptoms, and you're thinking about all these things. And

Matt Stagliano:

suddenly, it's way worse than you than it really is. But I

Matt Stagliano:

think I don't identifying the fear of success. First and

Matt Stagliano:

foremost, you have to look at behavior patterns over a long

Matt Stagliano:

period of time. You can't just say, Oh, I'm worried about this.

Matt Stagliano:

Therefore, I have a fear of success. And I'm doomed. I think

Matt Stagliano:

really, it's putting a lot of those puzzle pieces together to

Matt Stagliano:

say, alright, is this something that I really need to look at?

Matt Stagliano:

Meaning? Am I feeling anxious every time I get a new project

Matt Stagliano:

or new responsibility? or things are going to get more

Matt Stagliano:

complicated, therefore I'm worried about that, or you're

Matt Stagliano:

putting too much weight on what other people say, or have talked

Matt Stagliano:

about what the challenges in their life. So you're trying to

Matt Stagliano:

stay comfortable and avoid all of that. I think, you know, when

Matt Stagliano:

we're looking at fear of success, we have to understand

Matt Stagliano:

that that anxiety can be rooted in a lot of other things than

Matt Stagliano:

just the present of what we're looking at, hey, if you were

Matt Stagliano:

doing something as a kid, and you are rocking and rolling, and

Matt Stagliano:

someone made fun of you for being successful at it, well,

Matt Stagliano:

suddenly that that part of you wants to shut down, and never do

Matt Stagliano:

that thing again. But if that part of your soul keeps pulling

Matt Stagliano:

you back to do the thing, you could have this fear that, you

Matt Stagliano:

know, if you do it too well, you're going to be made fun of,

Matt Stagliano:

or outcast, or whatnot, a lot of that can manifest much, much

Matt Stagliano:

later in life. And it can manifest in ways like

Matt Stagliano:

procrastination, right, not even setting any goals, the self

Matt Stagliano:

sabotage that we've talked about a few times over the course of

Matt Stagliano:

the week. And, you know, it's really a complex subject that's

Matt Stagliano:

not easily identifiable, unless you're looking over a period of

Matt Stagliano:

time at your own behaviors, and some of the ups and downs that

Matt Stagliano:

you experience. But I think, you know, for me specifically not to

Matt Stagliano:

just keep talking and talking talking, me specifically, I

Matt Stagliano:

realized that it was things like fear of being made fun of, you

Matt Stagliano:

know, giving into my social anxiety, you know, being shamed

Matt Stagliano:

for being too good at something. And I don't say that, you know,

Matt Stagliano:

twisting my arm and patting myself on the back. But when

Matt Stagliano:

you're young, and you know, you're really proud of something

Matt Stagliano:

you've done, if you're made fun of because of that, that can

Matt Stagliano:

have some negative consequences down the line. So my point in

Matt Stagliano:

this entire diatribe is say, it takes a long time to identify a

Matt Stagliano:

true fear of success versus real anxiety. And even with real

Matt Stagliano:

anxiety, it's just worrying about things you cannot control.

Matt Stagliano:

So if you're fearful of succeeding, well, have you

Matt Stagliano:

succeeded yet? And Is there truth in that story, that you're

Matt Stagliano:

telling yourself that it's something to fear? So I wanted

Matt Stagliano:

to throw that on the table as well. Nicole is just, you know,

Matt Stagliano:

some additional talking points.

Nicole York:

Yeah, I think you have a really good point there,

Nicole York:

Matt. I mean, we certainly do, we have to be careful not to

Nicole York:

self diagnose. But when we do have to start noticing those

Nicole York:

patterns in our behavior, we do need to look back and say, you

Nicole York:

know, is this the thing that continues to happen? Am i

Nicole York:

Repeating this every time I get close to where I want to be in

Nicole York:

my cutting myself off somehow, and be able to notice those

Nicole York:

patterns, because that's the only way we're going to be able

Nicole York:

to help them in the first place. So I absolutely agree with you

Nicole York:

there. And then also, I think, you know, you mentioned being

Nicole York:

too good at things. And as kids, of course, you know, we

Nicole York:

experienced this kids are mean, but even some of us as adults

Nicole York:

will experience this as well. You know, we have so many

Nicole York:

artists and and creatives in this room, whether you are

Nicole York:

creative in an what would be considered a traditionally non

Nicole York:

creative career field, creativity is not stuck in one

Nicole York:

place. So you can be the most, you know, creative dentist in

Nicole York:

the world. But that's still a thing. So, you know, don't get

Nicole York:

stuck too much on that idea. But having so many creatives here,

Nicole York:

you probably have experienced when you do something and you

Nicole York:

share the thing. And then some people show up and we'll say

Nicole York:

God, can you leave some talent for the rest of us? Are you good

Nicole York:

at everything? Isn't there anything you can't do? And it

Nicole York:

sounds on the surface like they're complimenting you, when

Nicole York:

would really happening is they're pushing their

Nicole York:

insecurities off on you and sound of a compliment. And when

Nicole York:

you hear that often enough, it's certainly can have some negative

Nicole York:

psychological impacts were okay, maybe I shouldn't say this to

Nicole York:

people anymore. Maybe I shouldn't share this anymore. So

Nicole York:

definitely, I think that it's really important for us to keep

Nicole York:

in mind that those things might be influencing our actions when

Nicole York:

it comes to if we if we do have this fear of success and where

Nicole York:

that comes from, and being able to look at that and try to

Nicole York:

pinpoint those places where I do this every single time. Maybe I

Nicole York:

sabotage myself by giving up and starting a new project or not

Nicole York:

finishing all of my projects to completion or going off on side

Nicole York:

quests or quitting my career and starting a new one. And of

Nicole York:

course, like we talked about before, sometimes those things

Nicole York:

might be us just ask Actually course correcting right. But we

Nicole York:

won't know until like you said, we look back at these behaviors

Nicole York:

and realize, just as I was starting to be successful in

Nicole York:

each one of these places, I ran away, it pushed it away, I did

Nicole York:

something to sabotage that. So I think those are really, really

Nicole York:

good points that we have to keep in mind. Does anybody else on

Nicole York:

the panel today? Nothing else? Yeah, please go ahead.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah, I really want to build on what Matt said,

Bassam Sabbagh:

because I think he's touching the core of the subject. The

Bassam Sabbagh:

thing about fear is, or so the fear of success is, and maybe

Bassam Sabbagh:

any, any other fear is that sometimes it's not necessarily

Bassam Sabbagh:

about the thing itself, it's not about being afraid of success

Bassam Sabbagh:

itself. Because I think we all we all want to succeed, we all,

Bassam Sabbagh:

you know, we can imagine what that looks like, whether it's

Bassam Sabbagh:

monetary, whether it's otherwise. And, and what Matt's

Bassam Sabbagh:

pointing out that it's, it's usually something else that

Bassam Sabbagh:

we're afraid of that success may bring. Right? So here's example

Bassam Sabbagh:

of, you know, if something in my childhood happened, and I don't

Bassam Sabbagh:

want to face that again, and I'm afraid if I'm successful, I may

Bassam Sabbagh:

have to face that feeling again, in my case, you know, how we are

Bassam Sabbagh:

or, you know, example, if there's a, if there's somebody

Bassam Sabbagh:

who's an introvert, and they may say, Listen, if I become

Bassam Sabbagh:

successful, it may mean I have to step out in public, it may

Bassam Sabbagh:

mean I have to be in this, you know, in a zone that I'm not

Bassam Sabbagh:

comfortable in, and therefore, I don't want to face that, and,

Bassam Sabbagh:

and therefore I do all the things that, you know, Matt

Bassam Sabbagh:

pointed out some of them that I do, so I don't succeed, right?

Bassam Sabbagh:

In my case. It's the, you know, it's, it's the, I tend to pride

Bassam Sabbagh:

myself on not being boastful. I don't like bragging, I don't

Bassam Sabbagh:

want to stand out as somebody that, that that's bigger than

Bassam Sabbagh:

life. And, and I, I'm kind of thinking that my fear of success

Bassam Sabbagh:

comes from the fact that if I am successful, I may be in a

Bassam Sabbagh:

position where people may look at me and say, Oh, he is so full

Bassam Sabbagh:

of himself, oh, he is so both boastful, and so on and so

Bassam Sabbagh:

forth. And that could be why I display everything. facilite

Bassam Sabbagh:

talked about wishes, that sense, and I've talked about it here

Bassam Sabbagh:

before, and how many times have I said that I'm kind of

Bassam Sabbagh:

basically lazy, and I procrastinate, right, but

Bassam Sabbagh:

thinking about it, these things are connected, right. And it's

Bassam Sabbagh:

starting to make sense in my mind that, that it's not the

Bassam Sabbagh:

fear of success itself. It's all the things that make me who I

Bassam Sabbagh:

am, which are as a result of all the patterns and all the, you

Bassam Sabbagh:

know, the way I grew up to be in my worldview, and so on, and

Bassam Sabbagh:

avoiding the consequence of being successful.

Nicole York:

Makes some Yeah, no, absolutely. Sorry. It took

Nicole York:

me just a second to unmute. I think I think you're absolutely

Nicole York:

right, which is why, you know, in the beginning, talking to

Nicole York:

sissala, wanted to hear, you know, when when this is going on

Nicole York:

for you what is happening, you know, actively Because

Nicole York:

oftentimes, what's going on is we have things that are

Nicole York:

manifesting, and then the result is we pull away from success,

Nicole York:

right? But like you said, often it isn't, it isn't necessarily

Nicole York:

the idea of success. In itself. It is all of the accompanying

Nicole York:

the tributaries of that river that were like, Whoa, this is

Nicole York:

and they're often things that stem directly from our internal

Nicole York:

our other internal issues are the ideas of who we are, and

Nicole York:

comfort zones, and all that kind of stuff. And I have a friend

Nicole York:

who has a really hard time putting themselves out there in

Nicole York:

public, they're an incredibly talented artists, but it's

Nicole York:

really difficult for them to step forward. And in

Nicole York:

conversation with them. One of the reasons that we discovered

Nicole York:

is that their parents were both performers, and had this thing

Nicole York:

where they always kind of had to be the center of attention in

Nicole York:

every situation. And my friend always found that incredibly

Nicole York:

uncomfortable. And so when it's time for them to put themselves

Nicole York:

in a position where they should be getting that kind of

Nicole York:

attention. They find it kind of narcissistic, even though they

Nicole York:

don't believe that necessarily of other people. There's

Nicole York:

something internally that says, you know, you're searching for

Nicole York:

attention, you're this and that and so they they have a block

Nicole York:

around being able to do that for themselves. So I think you're

Nicole York:

absolutely right that there there it's often not the thing

Nicole York:

itself, but what is attached to the thing that we become afraid

Nicole York:

of inviting into our lives or subjecting ourselves to so yeah,

Nicole York:

I would absolutely agree with you there.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah. And Matt Matthews an example of one of

Bassam Sabbagh:

the things that we tend to do is we set goals that are kind of

Bassam Sabbagh:

relatively low right so that kind of that explains why you

Bassam Sabbagh:

know, we have this concept of think big and some people can

Bassam Sabbagh:

think big and some people think small and it's it's really

Bassam Sabbagh:

putting a limit on ourselves and thinking small because that

Bassam Sabbagh:

keeps us in our comfort zone. And that that's not success, you

Bassam Sabbagh:

know? So if I charge $1,000, for my, for my images, and somebody

Bassam Sabbagh:

charges 5000 Yeah, that's real success. And I'm like, I'm not

Bassam Sabbagh:

ready for that. So I'm just gonna put this self constraint

Bassam Sabbagh:

in place so that I don't, you know, I don't get that side

Bassam Sabbagh:

effect of being successful. So that's a good example of

Bassam Sabbagh:

something we may do.

Matt Stagliano:

And to add on, into that onto that besom, you

Matt Stagliano:

know, there's a lot of people like, we hear about it all the

Matt Stagliano:

time, I'm working 18 hours a day, I'm sacrificing, I haven't

Matt Stagliano:

seen my family, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. If you hear that

Matt Stagliano:

enough, from enough people, you're like, well, successful

Matt Stagliano:

sounds like it sucks. Like, it sounds like a lot of work. And I

Matt Stagliano:

don't want to do those things. I don't want to have that pain.

Matt Stagliano:

And so you settle back into that comfort zone, right? Or you set

Matt Stagliano:

goals that are so easily achievable, that you can mask it

Matt Stagliano:

with, oh, yeah, no, I'm successful, I hit that goal.

Matt Stagliano:

But, you know, you had to step over a six inch pole, you

Matt Stagliano:

weren't exactly, you know, high jumping in the Olympics. So, you

Matt Stagliano:

know, when you're setting goals that, that aren't making you

Matt Stagliano:

uncomfortable, where you can push past it and grow. That's

Matt Stagliano:

something to look at, if you're constantly, you know, achieving

Matt Stagliano:

all of your goals all of the time, and you're still feeling a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit weird or not where you want to be, those are some

Matt Stagliano:

of the indications that there might be an underlying issue.

Bassam Sabbagh:

And I want to say something, I'm not sure how

Bassam Sabbagh:

it's gonna come out. Alright, so forgive me if it comes out

Bassam Sabbagh:

wrong, okay. But we also tend to get satisfaction that even like,

Bassam Sabbagh:

for example, the example I gave about $1,000, or $5,000, we get

Bassam Sabbagh:

the satisfaction that when I charge my $1,000, and I feel

Bassam Sabbagh:

good, because I achieved it. Others that are charging 203 100

Bassam Sabbagh:

are looking up to us. And they validate that we're successful.

Bassam Sabbagh:

In a way, I don't know if that came out, right. But that kind

Bassam Sabbagh:

of tends to reinforce the fact that you're doing well. So be

Bassam Sabbagh:

satisfied with that, because others have validated that

Bassam Sabbagh:

you're, you're pretty good. I don't know if that makes sense.

Nicole York:

Yeah, it does, it kind of plays into that whole.

Nicole York:

It gives us a reason not to push too hard, right? Because we

Nicole York:

don't want to be the person who climbed up to the top of the

Nicole York:

ladder and fell off. Right? Like, if we knew we were

Nicole York:

successful there and everything was okay, it feels a lot better

Nicole York:

to stay there than it does to risk climbing up 10 more feet

Nicole York:

only to fall all the way to the ground past where we were at

Nicole York:

before. And we also have the fear of, for me, often what the

Nicole York:

fear of success looks like is, is is feeling like if I get up

Nicole York:

there and I fail, I will have finally proved to myself that I

Nicole York:

was the failure, I believed myself to be the whole time,

Nicole York:

right? Like this limiting belief of I can get this far, but no

Nicole York:

farther. Because once I tried to get up there and play with the

Nicole York:

big boys, that's where I'm gonna fall and prove that I never

Nicole York:

should have been there in the first

Bassam Sabbagh:

place. Yeah, absolutely. Right.

Nicole York:

So Erica had her hand raised, would love to hear

Nicole York:

from her as well. And then if anybody else is in the audience

Nicole York:

today, if y'all have dealt with this fear of success, if you

Nicole York:

have a hard time moving forward and past that, or if you have

Nicole York:

moved past it, we'd love to hear how you did that. Because that's

Nicole York:

the end of the conversation today, we're right now really

Nicole York:

drilling down on some of these things that could be

Nicole York:

contributing to that fear, but then we want to really talk

Nicole York:

about how do we get past that? What steps do we have to take

Nicole York:

to, to overcome that? So Erica would love to hear from you?

Erika:

Yeah, kind of in relation to it. But Sam was saying, I

Erika:

think it's important to say that we are the ones who get to

Erika:

define what success is not anybody else. So you know, in

Erika:

his example of you know, 5000 versus 1000. You know, somebody

Erika:

could be thinking that 1000 is, is successful, and you know, it

Erika:

suits their life. And it it works for them, and therefore

Erika:

they have achieved that success. So, you know, I think there's a

Erika:

fine balance between you know, setting the bar low and not

Erika:

trying to strive for more. And then also balancing like, I

Erika:

personally don't want to feel unsuccessful all my life. You

Erika:

know, I want to feel like I have a level of success, no matter

Erika:

where I am. So at this point in my life, I feel successful. Are

Erika:

there goals that I want to achieve? Heck, yeah, there are

Erika:

but I don't want to beat myself up in the level that I'm at You

Erika:

know, until I reach those goals, because it just in my opinion,

Erika:

that's just not the feeling I want to have all the time. So

Erika:

I'm finding the success in the level I'm at right now. And then

Erika:

setting my goals, realistically higher to try to reach new

Erika:

levels of success.

Bassam Sabbagh:

I totally get what you're saying Erica. And

Bassam Sabbagh:

there's there's absolute. There's absolute truth to saying

Bassam Sabbagh:

this is my definition of success. But often, in my case,

Bassam Sabbagh:

even though I'm just gonna make up this exam, even though I set

Bassam Sabbagh:

my number at 1000, deep down, I, I know that I want to be at that

Bassam Sabbagh:

$5,000. So that real definition of success, in my mind is being

Bassam Sabbagh:

at the $5,000. So there's that conflict, but then I do

Bassam Sabbagh:

everything else to justify that the $1,000 is good enough. So

Bassam Sabbagh:

that comes back to Yeah, it's up to us to set our success. But

Bassam Sabbagh:

this is where this fear of success that we're talking about

Bassam Sabbagh:

gets, in a way, that's how I, you know, I'm, I totally agree

Bassam Sabbagh:

with what you're saying. And and it's how, how comfortable are we

Bassam Sabbagh:

in managing our goals and our our definition of success?

Erika:

Right? And I, I totally get what you're saying, and it

Erika:

requires us to be honest with ourselves, like, are we really

Erika:

okay with that? $1,000? Or, are we just settling? Or, you know,

Erika:

so I get what you're saying, you know, it takes a lot of soul

Erika:

searching.

Bassam Sabbagh:

I know, I'm settling. I am whatever my

Bassam Sabbagh:

number is today, I know, I'm settling. And it's just how do I

Bassam Sabbagh:

deal with this and get out of it. And I think a lot of people

Bassam Sabbagh:

struggle with it.

Nicole York:

For sure, I think both of you guys have really

Nicole York:

incredible points. And ultimately, what this comes down

Nicole York:

to, you know, Matt mentioned, being able to look back over our

Nicole York:

history and recognize the things that we do and the patterns of

Nicole York:

behavior. And I think that will be a really good clue for us if

Nicole York:

what we're doing is honestly settling or if what we're doing

Nicole York:

is defining what success looks like, and then being comfortable

Nicole York:

to be there. We really we have to know ourselves, we have to do

Nicole York:

that soul searching in order to know whether or not that's true

Nicole York:

for us. So you know, it's just important to have a look at

Nicole York:

that. And I think you're absolutely right there. And

Nicole York:

Erica, you're correct. We each have to define what success

Nicole York:

looks like for us. And whether what we're doing right now, is

Nicole York:

the thing. And I think I think often we will recognize that. I

Nicole York:

mean, it's really clear that for some, he, he feels the fact that

Nicole York:

okay, it's not like this is bad, right? Like where he's at in his

Nicole York:

business. It's not like it's bad. He just knows that. It's

Nicole York:

not where he wants to stay. But there would be a difference. If

Nicole York:

he were to say, No, you know what, I'm just really happy

Nicole York:

here. I like the way my life looks. I like the comfort of my

Nicole York:

business. This is just good for me. Maybe someday I'll I'll I'll

Nicole York:

move on. But I'm not in a hurry. I'm happy. And I think we will

Nicole York:

know that about ourselves, you know what I mean? Like we will,

Nicole York:

we will begin to feel that internal compass start to move

Nicole York:

and will start to feel that discomfort and recognize that

Nicole York:

something is not right about what we're trying to do. So. You

Nicole York:

know, I think I think we will, we will probably feel those

Nicole York:

things when it's, it's not the right spot.

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah, I agree. It's more, it's more than

Bassam Sabbagh:

probably I think it's an area where it's very obvious. And

Bassam Sabbagh:

it's easy to be honest with yourself in this case. It's I

Bassam Sabbagh:

think it's what you think about all the time, in my case, that's

Bassam Sabbagh:

what I think about all the time, so it is obvious to me.

Nicole York:

Yep, yep. I think that's correct. So guys, what do

Nicole York:

we do? Um, you know, we've talked about the fact that this

Nicole York:

fear of success is probably really a conglomeration of

Nicole York:

several things. It's the difficulty of forcing ourselves

Nicole York:

outside of our comfort zones, it's behaviors that have kind of

Nicole York:

been built in from other experiences in our life, maybe

Nicole York:

from the time we were younger. It is looking toward the future

Nicole York:

and making these assumptions about what success looks like

Nicole York:

and the difficulties that will be waiting for us. They're

Nicole York:

questioning whether or not we're prepared for that. And also tied

Nicole York:

into that fear of success can be the fear of failure of once I

Nicole York:

get there, now I have to maintain I can't just relax and

Nicole York:

be lazy anymore. I'm going to be struggling to try to live that

Nicole York:

life. Do I really want that? So there's a lot that's tied into

Nicole York:

this. How do we start moving past these fears, or dealing

Nicole York:

with these fears so that we can get to where we want to go?

Nicole York:

Don't ever Buddy, I'll speak up at once now.

Bassam Sabbagh:

That's the difficult part. So I don't have

Bassam Sabbagh:

any input. Fair enough.

Matt Stagliano:

So Nicole, was it? What do we what do we do to

Matt Stagliano:

get past it?

Nicole York:

Yeah, what do we do now? Like, we know some of these

Nicole York:

things that are definitely contributing to that fear of

Nicole York:

success? So what do we do with that knowledge? How do we move

Nicole York:

past these things?

Matt Stagliano:

I mean, the simple answer is, is find help.

Matt Stagliano:

Right. And, and I don't mean that flippantly, it's, it's if

Matt Stagliano:

you've identified these issues as something in your life, and

Matt Stagliano:

it's causing lack of motivation, it's causing you to be stuck,

Matt Stagliano:

you're not setting goals, you're procrastinating far more than

Matt Stagliano:

you used to like all of the things that just keep you from

Matt Stagliano:

having a good quality of life. And, you know, having the things

Matt Stagliano:

that you do want, find help in a mentor, or a therapist, or

Matt Stagliano:

someone that you trust, that can help work you through some of

Matt Stagliano:

these issues. Me, I'm a big believer in therapy, clearly, I

Matt Stagliano:

mean, you're going to have counselors that specialize in

Matt Stagliano:

this type of stuff, and can really maybe dig into some of

Matt Stagliano:

the roots of the problems, if you feel like you have those

Matt Stagliano:

symptoms. The other part of it is, in a business sense, you

Matt Stagliano:

just may need a business mentor to be like, Hey, I've been down

Matt Stagliano:

the road, you're traveling, everything's gonna be fine. Just

Matt Stagliano:

come with me on this, let me be your accountability partner, let

Matt Stagliano:

me pull you through. For me, that's been, you know, all of

Matt Stagliano:

those things I've tried and all I've been successful with,

Matt Stagliano:

because it was identifying the issues that were causing the

Matt Stagliano:

fear. And then secondarily, finding someone to help me push

Matt Stagliano:

past them. My therapist isn't exactly going to tell me how to

Matt Stagliano:

get more clients. But if I can find a mentor that can help me

Matt Stagliano:

push past some of those things, and get past the fear of

Matt Stagliano:

rejection, the imposter syndrome, all of the elements of

Matt Stagliano:

that fear of success, then I stand a better chance at moving

Matt Stagliano:

past that, and being able to recognize that when it rears its

Matt Stagliano:

head up down the line. So yeah, I just I find someone way better

Matt Stagliano:

at it than me. And I talked to them.

Nicole York:

So find help.

Matt Stagliano:

That's yeah, that was the long way of saying

Matt Stagliano:

find out. Yeah,

Nicole York:

well, no, I mean, the description, the

Nicole York:

descriptions are fantastic. I'm just, I'm kind of I'm

Nicole York:

cataloguing everything in my head. So I make sure that we

Nicole York:

cover it all again, at the end. Yeah, so so find help. I mean,

Nicole York:

obviously, in this group, we're trying to help one another. But

Nicole York:

like you said, it's important for us to find an individual

Nicole York:

that we can talk to about our business and what we're doing.

Nicole York:

And so they can address, you know, our peculiar situation,

Nicole York:

instead of what the assumptions might be about somebody in our

Nicole York:

situation, so And with

Matt Stagliano:

that, it in my experience needs to be someone

Matt Stagliano:

unbiased, someone you don't know, well, it's very easy for

Matt Stagliano:

me to complain to you about my fears, and get you know, someone

Matt Stagliano:

to commiserate with you. But like we said, yesterday, you

Matt Stagliano:

need someone that's gonna stab you in the chest, not in the

Matt Stagliano:

back, and be able to, you know, kind of be unbiased about it and

Matt Stagliano:

lay things out on the table for you.

Nicole York:

Right, really, really good point. This is why

Nicole York:

business coaches can be so so valuable, because they want the

Nicole York:

best for you. They want to do well, they want you to do well,

Nicole York:

but they don't have a stake in being nice to you right. Now, I

Nicole York:

shouldn't say not being nice to you, but in sparing your

Nicole York:

feelings, I guess, I guess I should say. So we also came up

Nicole York:

Lee Hello, would love to hear what you think about this whole

Nicole York:

fear of success issue and all the kind of accompanying

Nicole York:

difficult.

Unknown:

Hey, what's up as May I guess, in short?

Nicole York:

I'm sorry, what's that?

Unknown:

Call come through? Can you hear me? Yep, we got. I

Unknown:

guess in short, a lot of what we're talking about has a lot to

Unknown:

do with self talk and self love. So you know, when it comes to

Unknown:

these things, it's the whole paradox of a lot of what we're

Unknown:

seeking externally is found internally. So everything that

Unknown:

we're kind of talking about and addressing is things that we're

Unknown:

always going to have to face internally or on our own. You

Unknown:

know, even with the the aspect of asking for help, you know,

Unknown:

that's super important. It's a major piece to everyone's

Unknown:

journey. And at the same time, there is no guru savior, Monk,

Unknown:

anything that's ever going to be able to to save you so to speak.

Unknown:

And I say that because everybody that that is on your path,

Unknown:

whether it may be a mentor, a coach I'm a teacher, whatever,

Unknown:

it's always going to come back to you, and in what you're doing

Unknown:

for yourself higher, and most importantly, how your teeth

Unknown:

talking and treating yourself, you know, words and thoughts

Unknown:

have power. And they manifest in different ways. And so, you

Unknown:

know, my only piece of advice through my own journey, and I

Unknown:

will bore everybody with that story is that, you know, the

Unknown:

biggest thing you can focus on is how you're speaking to

Unknown:

yourself, because we all have that voice in the back of our

Unknown:

mind. And once we swallow that pill of realizing that, really

Unknown:

every aspect of our life we have, we have I don't want to

Unknown:

say the word control, because as people get fixated on control,

Unknown:

but every aspect of our life, we have contributed to, in one way,

Unknown:

shape or form, unconsciously, or consciously. And so when we take

Unknown:

that responsibility, realizing that we have co created our

Unknown:

life, in a way, every bit of it becomes a big responsibility,

Unknown:

and realization and a need to bring more awareness to what it

Unknown:

is that we're thinking, saying doing. And really being aware of

Unknown:

that.

Nicole York:

Yeah, you're so rightly and I mean, this is a

Nicole York:

kind of a continuing topic of conversation here in this group,

Nicole York:

the fact that our internal narratives are some of the most

Nicole York:

important things that we can pay attention to, particularly when

Nicole York:

we're starting to recognize habits or behaviors that are not

Nicole York:

helpful. And I think the first thing that we have to keep in

Nicole York:

mind, when some of our behaviors are tied to what we've been

Nicole York:

saying to ourselves, we need to remember the fact that we can

Nicole York:

change that, that it's not like these are codes that are baked

Nicole York:

into the hardware of our brain, these are software, these are

Nicole York:

things that can be uninstalled and can be changed and can be

Nicole York:

altered, if we choose to. But first, we have to recognize that

Nicole York:

it can happen, you have to believe that it can happen, you

Nicole York:

have to kind of cultivate that growth mindset around the

Nicole York:

internal narratives around the way that you think. And that can

Nicole York:

go 90% of the way towards getting us to a place where we

Nicole York:

can move past some of these internal conflicts. And that's

Nicole York:

not to say that it's easy, it is a struggle. When you hear

Nicole York:

yourself, say these things to yourself, you have to be present

Nicole York:

enough in your thoughts to catch them. And then to change and

Nicole York:

redirect them. And that can be a really big struggle. Because

Nicole York:

often those narratives are kind of quietly running in the

Nicole York:

background, we, we don't really notice them, we only notice the

Nicole York:

effect of them, until we start paying attention. So that's why

Nicole York:

we've talked about being present before. But that's why really

Nicole York:

being present in your thoughts, listening to yourself, taking

Nicole York:

that time to check in with yourself and hear what you're

Nicole York:

saying, is so critical to changing some of these

Nicole York:

behaviors. Because you need to recognize the fact that you say

Nicole York:

to yourself, oh, but if I get there, and I fail, everybody's

Nicole York:

gonna see it. Right? You have to, you have to recognize that

Nicole York:

thought, you have to step in and go, Why am I condemning myself,

Nicole York:

before I've even gotten to the bridge, I can deal with that

Nicole York:

problem, if it happens, and when I get there, but I have to get

Nicole York:

there first. So you can start changing those thoughts that you

Nicole York:

have, you just have to recognize them. And then you have to be

Nicole York:

willing to repeat them to yourself over and over again,

Nicole York:

enough times that they begin to stick and they become the

Nicole York:

thought that pops up instead of the negative self talk. And if

Nicole York:

you are not accompanying the self talk with behaviors that

Nicole York:

support it, you're not going to believe what you have to say.

Nicole York:

And this is why it's so important for us to earn

Nicole York:

confidence with ourselves, to prove to ourselves that we are

Nicole York:

capable of doing hard things. So that we know, when I say this

Nicole York:

thing to myself, I'm not just blowing smoke up my own ass, I'm

Nicole York:

not lying to make myself feel better. I'm telling myself, what

Nicole York:

can absolutely be true, if I'm willing to put in the effort.

Nicole York:

Because I have shown myself already in the past, that I can

Nicole York:

do anything if I'm willing to fight for it. So starting with

Nicole York:

changing those internal narratives, and then supporting

Nicole York:

that reinforcing that with our actions and behaviors. At that

Nicole York:

point, there's just about nothing that can't, that we

Nicole York:

can't accomplish. So I'm really glad that you brought that up

Nicole York:

and I think it's a hugely valuable part of this

Nicole York:

conversation. So,

Unknown:

belief is a strong force. Everybody wants to Google

Unknown:

a quote from one of my favorite movies. If you go to Google and

Unknown:

just type in Cloud Atlas belief, quote, it's pretty interesting.

Unknown:

Any and even little things, like you said, like, and I'm not, I'm

Unknown:

not picking on you by any means. So hopefully it doesn't come off

Unknown:

like this, but changing that word from like, struggle to

Unknown:

challenge. So instead of saying, Hey, this is a, and I'm speaking

Unknown:

to myself, and, you know, oftentimes when we remind, talk

Unknown:

about things, other people are reminding ourselves, but

Unknown:

changing that word from struggle to challenge, you know, just has

Unknown:

a different feel to it. And those words that we say have

Unknown:

certain, certain feelings, or how it makes us feel. And so

Unknown:

that's like, to your point, how we change our beliefs is through

Unknown:

our thoughts, and then how those thoughts make us feel and then

Unknown:

associating those feelings with a certain experience and, you

Unknown:

know, going down that rabbit hole?

Nicole York:

Yeah, you're absolutely 100%. Right. And I

Nicole York:

think it's really worth noting the fact of the power of words,

Nicole York:

and I know, I've talked about this before, as a writer,

Nicole York:

obviously, this is part of what my career is. But you're

Nicole York:

absolutely right, even sometimes changing the entire narrative

Nicole York:

can be tricky, because there's a lot to change. But just changing

Nicole York:

a word, like you said, changing from struggle to challenge that

Nicole York:

completely sets everything on a different playing field, it

Nicole York:

changes the rules of the game, and helps alter your perception

Nicole York:

of what it is you're actually doing. So I'm 100%, on board

Nicole York:

with you there.

Unknown:

Yeah, chipped away at the layers, you know, so I'm not

Unknown:

saying

Nicole York:

don't be sorry, he's great.

Unknown:

I, you know, chips away the layers, even, you know,

Unknown:

those little pieces. You know, I had a mentor teach me something

Unknown:

to I can't remember the term he used for what these words are

Unknown:

considered, I think it is junk to recall them. But like, I just

Unknown:

did, like, anytime you say like, but or just or, you know, you

Unknown:

have that that word in between sentences that oftentimes can be

Unknown:

replaced with like, with a with simply a pause and save, because

Unknown:

normally when we say but it can oftentimes mean that we're

Unknown:

conscious, that we're basically canceling what, what it is, we

Unknown:

said before that you can, you know, for example, you can say,

Unknown:

you know, I, blah, blah, blah, but you know, chances are when

Unknown:

somebody says, But I'm like, alright, what you just said,

Unknown:

basically, it gets canceled out. So a cool thing to do is start

Unknown:

to pay attention to that. And it really slows down your mind and

Unknown:

slows down the words that you're using. Because you're starting

Unknown:

to think about man, if I do say, but did I really? Did, I really

Unknown:

just pretty much cancel out what I say. And oftentimes we really

Unknown:

feel into what you did, you know, because when you're trying

Unknown:

to say things or explain things or justify things, and you use

Unknown:

that, I think thank you, he caught her disjunctive, you

Unknown:

know, oftentimes is a sign to our own, it goes back to our own

Unknown:

inner self talk and how we're truly feeling. We're thinking

Unknown:

and we're not necessarily expressing that in the most

Unknown:

direct and the most direct way. So that's another like, little

Unknown:

trick you can do to start paying attention to pay attention to

Unknown:

start, when you start using another people start using books

Unknown:

and just things like that.

Nicole York:

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I want to

Nicole York:

give an example of that before I asked God to share his thoughts.

Nicole York:

Because sometimes hearing hearing it said this way will

Nicole York:

make a big difference. So I can say, I really want to be

Nicole York:

successful, but I'm lazy. I, I might, I'm lazy, but I want to

Nicole York:

be successful. That's not the perfect example. But if even if

Nicole York:

I switch them, so I kept the butt in there. But if I switch

Nicole York:

them, I love you, but you're really getting on my nerves.

Nicole York:

You're really getting on my nerves, but I love you. One says

Nicole York:

this, this action or this thought is qualified by the

Nicole York:

second thing, the second thing overpowers the first thing. So

Nicole York:

even switching them, even if you don't remove them, but you

Nicole York:

switch those two things, you can see why having the butt in there

Nicole York:

makes a really big difference. And so I absolutely agree with

Nicole York:

you and I think people should experiment. Notice yourself

Nicole York:

talk. Notice what you're saying. When you flip things around, see

Nicole York:

how it sounds to you and recognize sometimes you have to

Nicole York:

see the thing in a better sense for you to recognize how badly

Nicole York:

you've been talking to yourself. So definitely look at that and I

Nicole York:

want to go ahead, go respond and then I want to hear from Ari.

Unknown:

Oh no clubhouse blinking thing?

Matt Stagliano:

Oh, gotcha, gotcha.

Nicole York:

All right. All right. We'd love to hear your

Nicole York:

thoughts on this whole, this whole fear of success and what

Nicole York:

we do about it?

Ariel Schochet:

Yeah, absolutely. I guess I just, I

Ariel Schochet:

don't think this is so different, just maybe a

Ariel Schochet:

different way of putting it. It's definitely a topic that

Ariel Schochet:

even just last year to spend a lot of time thinking about and

Ariel Schochet:

discussing. You know, one way to put it is all in the negative

Ariel Schochet:

self talk and how we are often our own worst critic and, and

Ariel Schochet:

blocks. And another way that it often gets put is this idea of

Ariel Schochet:

imposter syndrome. You know, where, you know, we feel that we

Ariel Schochet:

hesitate to take the next step, because we feel like we're,

Ariel Schochet:

we're not really there. We're imposters and what have you, and

Ariel Schochet:

especially in a creative world, or in a place where you're by

Ariel Schochet:

yourself as solopreneur or entrepreneur, it's easy to get

Ariel Schochet:

into that mind frame and because like, let's say using

Ariel Schochet:

photography, as a craft, one can always improve and do more. So

Ariel Schochet:

there's no cue to say, Okay, I've reached this level, I've

Ariel Schochet:

reached this, this level of proficiency that so that one

Ariel Schochet:

wouldn't feel like an imposter. And without having those like,

Ariel Schochet:

you know, dishonorable objective, Berry levels to

Ariel Schochet:

cross, it's easy to fall back into a law not ready yet not

Ariel Schochet:

ready yet. And, and feel like an imposter. And I guess, the two

Ariel Schochet:

points that I wanted to add to what you said the call,

Ariel Schochet:

especially in terms of the negative self talk, and, and,

Ariel Schochet:

and treating yourself with grace, absolutely agree. One way

Ariel Schochet:

that has been taught to me and sort of drilled into me by a

Ariel Schochet:

very established and famous rabbi in my community. He said

Ariel Schochet:

all the time, he said, words are bullets. And, you know, when you

Ariel Schochet:

use them, especially against yourself, you're shooting

Ariel Schochet:

yourself. And and that is something that that way of

Ariel Schochet:

putting it really has resonated with me over time. And it's

Ariel Schochet:

something that I try to keep in my mind when, you know, doing a

Ariel Schochet:

self analysis. And I guess that leads to the second point, which

Ariel Schochet:

is that, especially when we are alone, and it's difficult to do

Ariel Schochet:

a fair self analysis of whether our fear of imposter syndrome

Ariel Schochet:

type thing or is valid or not, you know, it's important to have

Ariel Schochet:

people around you, or people that you can use as mentors to

Ariel Schochet:

give you that reality check in whether it's qualifications, or

Ariel Schochet:

in ruminations or whatever, to help balance you and, you know,

Ariel Schochet:

stabilize you, as a rock that will give you the honest truth.

Ariel Schochet:

And there are many times where I will go to a mentor and say,

Ariel Schochet:

here's what's going on in my head. What is the reality? You

Ariel Schochet:

know, I'm feeling off balance, I'm not sure which, which

Ariel Schochet:

reality is the true one. And that often helps me, you know,

Ariel Schochet:

sort of stabilized by holding on to that rock, if I continue to

Ariel Schochet:

metaphor. Or maybe similarly, I get confused which ones which,

Ariel Schochet:

but regardless, you know, the example. So yeah, that's my two

Ariel Schochet:

cents. Appreciate the space and complete.

Nicole York:

Yeah, I know, we're close to the end of our hour.

Nicole York:

But there's been so much good stuff here today. And so I want

Nicole York:

to get final thoughts. Let's try to focus on what we actually can

Nicole York:

actively do to move ourselves past these places. I know we've

Nicole York:

covered a few things, and I will summarize at the end. But if

Nicole York:

anybody else has any, anything else that they have used to help

Nicole York:

them, deal with these feelings, move past these places. You

Nicole York:

know, overcome these hurdles, handle these challenges, etc.

Nicole York:

What have you done? Or what advice could you give to someone

Nicole York:

to help them deal with this fear of success? If you're in the

Nicole York:

audience today, please feel free to raise your hand we'll grab

Nicole York:

Yep.

Matt Stagliano:

You know, one more thing that I've talked

Matt Stagliano:

about here 150 times I'm sure is practicing meditation and just

Matt Stagliano:

kind of quieting your mind. A lot of times for me, my anxiety

Matt Stagliano:

gets so ahead of itself, and I'm worrying about things I can't

Matt Stagliano:

control when I can control my own breathing and think about

Matt Stagliano:

that and just be self aware and observant of the thoughts that

Matt Stagliano:

go through my head a lot of times the issues that I have

Matt Stagliano:

seem to be reduced, they don't seem as large or insurmountable

Matt Stagliano:

anymore. And all it takes is about 20 minutes of some quiet

Matt Stagliano:

time to be able to do that. So just one more technique that

Matt Stagliano:

works for me, it's not for everybody, but it works for me.

Nicole York:

Yep, I agree, I noticed when I meditate, my

Nicole York:

anxiety, my general anxiety goes way down. So also, it helps you

Nicole York:

to be more mindful of your thoughts, and to be a little bit

Nicole York:

more in your body so you can recognize when that's happening.

Nicole York:

Dear friend, David Parrish has a kind of fantastic technique for

Nicole York:

this, not the meditation part. But the being mindful part,

Nicole York:

whenever he's kind of built the habit for himself that whenever

Nicole York:

he starts to notice his physiology change, so if he is

Nicole York:

starting to feel upset, or frustrated, or whatever's going

Nicole York:

on, he stops and asks himself, where did this come from? What

Nicole York:

started causing these behaviors like what thoughts was I having

Nicole York:

right before this emotion, this response was triggered? And go

Nicole York:

back and look at that, and find out what you were thinking. So

Nicole York:

that you can start asking yourself those questions like,

Nicole York:

well, is this true? Are there supporting evidence for this

Nicole York:

thing? When I look at my past, has this been true in my past,

Nicole York:

etc. So you can start putting whatever's going on in

Nicole York:

perspective. So, meditating, being present, being mindful,

Nicole York:

really paying attention to those cues, so you can find out what

Nicole York:

you were thinking? All super, super important. Anybody else

Nicole York:

have any other pieces of advice before we start to close down?

Bassam Sabbagh:

Yeah, I don't have anything specific myself.

Bassam Sabbagh:

But as we were talking today, I was kind of looking for some

Bassam Sabbagh:

articles, I found this article that I just posted in the

Bassam Sabbagh:

Facebook group. For anybody who's interested it It outlines

Bassam Sabbagh:

six types of fear of six personas, it's actually what

Bassam Sabbagh:

very well done six personas of six types of fear of success and

Bassam Sabbagh:

how to how to deal with them. So you can it was very easy for me

Bassam Sabbagh:

to see myself where do I fit within No, six personas and it

Bassam Sabbagh:

gives quite detailed. Yeah, thanks for putting that up

Bassam Sabbagh:

there. Nicole. The Facebook group. So yeah, if you're

Bassam Sabbagh:

interested in reading something about the subject, I just posted

Bassam Sabbagh:

it in the Facebook group.

Nicole York:

Anybody else? Alright, y'all. This is a really

Nicole York:

fantastic and important conversation today, as we talked

Nicole York:

about, the fear of success, what that actually means, right? How

Nicole York:

often, it's not necessarily the fear of success itself. It is

Nicole York:

the things that accompany either the journey toward it, or our

Nicole York:

assumptions about what it will look like to be successful. And

Nicole York:

that will include things like, if we have any negative self

Nicole York:

talk, if we have fears of what will be outside of our comfort

Nicole York:

zone, our comfort zone itself, and the desire to protect

Nicole York:

ourselves by staying somewhere that is safe, somewhere that is

Nicole York:

recognizable, somewhere where we can predict the outcomes, and we

Nicole York:

don't have to take those emotional risks that will

Nicole York:

accompany putting ourselves in a place where it's possible to

Nicole York:

fail. Often, the fear of success is not necessarily the fear of

Nicole York:

the success itself. But the fear of success, not looking like

Nicole York:

what we thought it would have thinking, when I get this, then

Nicole York:

I'll be fulfilled, then I'll be happy. But recognizing deep

Nicole York:

down, that our happiness has nothing to do with what titles

Nicole York:

we can give ourselves or what accomplishments we can say we

Nicole York:

have, and everything to do with how well we can be with

Nicole York:

ourselves and happy and comfortable and content with who

Nicole York:

we are. There's just a lot to unpack. And each of us is going

Nicole York:

to have to look at ourselves take that time to be mindful,

Nicole York:

and to ask ourselves those questions because we need to

Nicole York:

know if we feel this fear of success. And if we look back

Nicole York:

over our lives, and we discover, oh, every time I start to become

Nicole York:

successful, I will sabotage it somehow I will quit I will leave

Nicole York:

I will, etc, etc. I look back I see this pattern of behavior.

Nicole York:

It's clear to me that anytime I start getting close to success,

Nicole York:

I will find some way to sabotage that. I need to be present with

Nicole York:

myself. Be gentle with myself and ask these questions so I can

Nicole York:

find out what is really contributing to me sabotaging my

Nicole York:

ability to get to where I say I want to go, is it because I have

Nicole York:

behaviors that I'm carrying with me from some trauma in my past?

Nicole York:

Is it because I don't believe I deserve have to be there, to

Nicole York:

have that thing is it because I believe money is bad, is it

Nicole York:

because I have been telling myself my whole life, that I'm

Nicole York:

lazy, and that I'm a failure. And if I get this thing, I'm

Nicole York:

sure to lose it. There's a lot that can potentially be tied to

Nicole York:

this fear that we have to understand for ourselves,

Nicole York:

because it's not going to be the same for each person, and you

Nicole York:

can't take my issues and make the assumption that yours are

Nicole York:

the same and try to put in place, band aids or fixes or you

Nicole York:

know, any kind of steps that will work for me and make the

Nicole York:

assumption that they work for you. This is one of those things

Nicole York:

you really do have to explore. So find help. Find somebody who

Nicole York:

will be willing to tell you the truth, even if it's not

Nicole York:

comfortable, who will stab you in the front, not in the back.

Nicole York:

Who is willing to hurt your feelings if it means telling you

Nicole York:

what you need to hear. And you must be willing to live in the

Nicole York:

discomfort of finding that out for yourself so that you can

Nicole York:

move past those things. Make sure that you're paying

Nicole York:

attention to the way that you talk to yourself to what's going

Nicole York:

on in your inner monologue. Are you saying to yourself unhelpful

Nicole York:

and hurtful things? Are you couching your problems, or the

Nicole York:

the issues that you're facing in language that does not set you

Nicole York:

up for success? As Leah mentioned earlier, even just

Nicole York:

changing a single word like struggle, changing that to

Nicole York:

challenge watching out if you're using qualifying words, like

Nicole York:

but, and seeing what that means when you actually do use them.

Nicole York:

There's just a lot that you're going to have to pay attention

Nicole York:

to. But you have to recognize that these thought patterns and

Nicole York:

these behaviors can change that is the Great, the great reason

Nicole York:

the human race has become

Nicole York:

what we are today. Some of that, obviously is not fancy, not

Nicole York:

fantastic. But there's a reason that we have dominated the

Nicole York:

entire Earth. And it is in our ability to change, there's a

Nicole York:

reason humans can live in every climate that exists. And that is

Nicole York:

our adaptability, our ability to change our thoughts or patterns

Nicole York:

or behaviors to become successful in the environments

Nicole York:

that we're in. But in order to do that, we either have to first

Nicole York:

believe that we're capable of that change, or we have to be

Nicole York:

stuffed in that environment, whether we like it or not, and

Nicole York:

forced to change or fall. And most of us, I think, would

Nicole York:

choose to change those behaviors on ourselves. Because if we wait

Nicole York:

for those motivating moments for losing a job for being thrust

Nicole York:

into a situation that we didn't prepare ourselves for, we

Nicole York:

absolutely can still grow wings and fly in that situation. But

Nicole York:

the struggle is going to be an entirely different magnitude,

Nicole York:

and much more. There's a lot more on the line, when we allow

Nicole York:

those things to happen, instead of recognizing the fact that we

Nicole York:

can change the way that we think and the way that we behave, if

Nicole York:

we're willing to put in the work. So that's something to

Nicole York:

keep in mind. Also, can never ever recommend therapy enough.

Nicole York:

If this is something you feel like is really standing in your

Nicole York:

path has been having negative influences on your life for a

Nicole York:

long time now. And please find a therapist. And this is not to

Nicole York:

say that you can't get good advice here, or from friends, or

Nicole York:

from family members. But you need that person like Matt was

Nicole York:

talking about, who is going to allow you to get real glimpses

Nicole York:

into your life that are objective that you would not

Nicole York:

necessarily have been able to get from somebody who has a

Nicole York:

vested interest in keeping you happy with them. So can't can't,

Nicole York:

you know, suggests that path enough. That was a really long

Nicole York:

one. There's a lot to this. I don't think that it's something

Nicole York:

we could even cover well in the day. But I hope that the result

Nicole York:

is you are now paying attention to the fact that this is a

Nicole York:

potential thing. Go back and have a look, see if it's

Nicole York:

something that is affecting you. If it is, what can you do about

Nicole York:

it? And try some of these techniques. If they sound like

Nicole York:

they resonate with you. If not, they're probably not for you and

Nicole York:

don't even worry about it. Tomorrow, we're going to be

Nicole York:

getting together again. It is the end of the week, we are

Nicole York:

going to be talking about things like perfectionism and the other

Nicole York:

types of internal conflicts that stop us from moving forward. It

Nicole York:

will be the last day of the week. So we'll be also kind of

Nicole York:

pulling together the conversation that we've had so

Nicole York:

far. So I hope you will join us for that. If you're not in the

Nicole York:

Facebook group already. Go ahead and join that the link is at the

Nicole York:

top Assam has already posted a link to a fantastic article that

Nicole York:

it sounds like my that'd be really helpful. So go have a

Nicole York:

look there. And hopefully we will see you bright and early

Nicole York:

tomorrow morning at 7am Mountain Standard Time that is 6am for

Nicole York:

the West Coast 9am for the East Coast. And of course the

Nicole York:

Facebook group is always there for you in time, have a

Nicole York:

fantastic day guys. Go make something amazing. And we'll see

Nicole York:

you bright and early tomorrow morning.

Matt Stagliano:

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

Matt Stagliano:

discussion moderated by all of us at the artist Forge. We hope

Matt Stagliano:

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

Matt Stagliano:

episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit

Matt Stagliano:

the artists forge.com Go make something incredible

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About the Podcast

Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge
How to Critique Art
Learn how mindset, creativity, and visual literacy will help you think like an artist so you can create work you love and build a career that matters; bridging the gap between technique and art.

About your host

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Nicole York