full

full
Published on:

19th Jan 2022

Phoenixing: Why Do We Burn it All Down?

Many artists reinvent themselves over time, whether it’s to explore new ideas or to capture new clients. But what is really going on inside of us when we burn everything down to the ground?

Transcript
Matt Stagliano:

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

Matt Stagliano:

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

Matt Stagliano:

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

Matt Stagliano:

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

Matt Stagliano:

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

Matt Stagliano:

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

Matt Stagliano:

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

Matt Stagliano:

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

Matt Stagliano:

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group or visit

Matt Stagliano:

us on the web at the artist forged calm. Now on to the show.

Nicole York:

Welcome to morning walk and photo talk with the

Nicole York:

artist Ford. So glad to have you with us here at the end of the

Nicole York:

week after some fantastic discussions this week on

Nicole York:

managing conflict and confrontation. Really, really

Nicole York:

glad we had so many amazing folks join us last night in the

Nicole York:

Facebook group and online and YouTube for the live stream. And

Nicole York:

so much incredible participation, it was so great

Nicole York:

hanging out with you guys and getting to just kind of discuss

Nicole York:

all the things we've been talking about put some fine

Nicole York:

points on it, getting some great new points to think about from

Nicole York:

our friends. So really grateful to have you there for that. And

Nicole York:

excited because today, we are going to have kind of a

Nicole York:

transitionary talk. So during our stream last night, Kat

Nicole York:

mentioned something called Phoenix thing. I'm going to let

Nicole York:

her explain what that means before we get into the

Nicole York:

conversation. But it'll be a really great stepping stone or

Nicole York:

segue as we move into next week. This week, we talked a lot about

Nicole York:

external conflict and external confrontation. Next week, we're

Nicole York:

going to look more about we're going to look more about you

Nicole York:

have to forgive me this morning. Next week, we're going to talk

Nicole York:

about internal conflict, internal confrontations, and see

Nicole York:

how we can kind of tie these things together. And that's why

Nicole York:

today's conversation should be really fantastic because Kat

Nicole York:

introduced this idea of Phoenix thing, which I found really

Nicole York:

interesting. And apparently I do only not exactly the way she

Nicole York:

described. But it is true for me, I'm interested to see if

Nicole York:

it's true for you all too. And I can't wait for Kat to talk a

Nicole York:

little bit about it and see how do we not burn it all down to

Nicole York:

the ground. So I'm gonna let Kat introduce the topic, and then

Nicole York:

we'll get into the conversation for today.

Cat Ford-Coates:

So Phoenix thing is probably my greatest

Cat Ford-Coates:

form of self sabotage. Um, I, I found myself like at 18 walking

Cat Ford-Coates:

away from my family and being like, Screw you, I don't want

Cat Ford-Coates:

your support, I don't want your money, I don't want your

Cat Ford-Coates:

anything. And I'm going to do this all on my own. And this

Cat Ford-Coates:

thing called life, right, and I would set goals and Life

Cat Ford-Coates:

Adventures would happen and then all of these things. But

Cat Ford-Coates:

whenever I would set a goal and like bust my ass to reach it,

Cat Ford-Coates:

like this next level of growth thing. And it could be anything

Cat Ford-Coates:

throughout life, whether it was college, or jobs or whatever,

Cat Ford-Coates:

say hello, Matilda. Ah, inevitably right afterwards,

Cat Ford-Coates:

when this does happen with a lot of people who are setting major

Cat Ford-Coates:

goals that are outside of their comfort zone, they reach it, and

Cat Ford-Coates:

then they sort of dip a little bit they because they take a

Cat Ford-Coates:

breath, right, like you run the marathon, and then you stop to

Cat Ford-Coates:

take your breath. But then just following that, I would

Cat Ford-Coates:

immediately burn everything to the ground, so that I could then

Cat Ford-Coates:

build back up again, and have that feeling of accomplishment.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Instead of turning that, that goal that thing into my new

Cat Ford-Coates:

baseline. I would dig right back down to where I was or farther

Cat Ford-Coates:

below so that I could use my energy to accomplish the thing

Cat Ford-Coates:

to get back out of it again, so I could feel that thing again.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Instead of just moving forward and moving up because you know,

Cat Ford-Coates:

our lives are not linear, right? So I I have since coined the

Cat Ford-Coates:

term as Phoenix thing. I'm a professional Phoenician

Nicole York:

Oh my goodness. So first, thank you so much for for

Nicole York:

sharing your story and holy wow. I can't tell you how crazy it

Nicole York:

was first to hear you talk about that and kind of describe it and

Nicole York:

then we go whoa, I definitely see some echoes of that in my

Nicole York:

own life. And I would love to hear from Matt and Becca as

Nicole York:

well. Is this something y'all have experienced or done to

Nicole York:

yourself? Over the course of your career your life?

Matt Stagliano:

Does the pope shit in the words? Yeah, of

Matt Stagliano:

course. I Good morning guys. Sorry,

Nicole York:

all the sudden made me think of the bear replacing

Nicole York:

the Pope and the Vatican shitting in his goal, toilet. So

Matt Stagliano:

whatever, whatever. Whatever works. I've

Matt Stagliano:

never been great at analogy. So I think, you know, cats coached

Matt Stagliano:

me for years. And this is something that I do quite a bit,

Matt Stagliano:

not only the finishing part of it, but the the pure Self

Matt Stagliano:

Sabotage. And I think I was talking about this a little bit

Matt Stagliano:

last night, on the, on the webinar about upper limits,

Matt Stagliano:

right. But yeah, I found myself burning down and reinventing

Matt Stagliano:

myself over and over and over again. And it wasn't until cat

Matt Stagliano:

really talked about it last night that I felt that I had a

Matt Stagliano:

connection to that. I just thought I had that seven year

Matt Stagliano:

itch, because it seems to be in my life, about every seven

Matt Stagliano:

years, I go through a complete reinvention of myself first it

Matt Stagliano:

was, you know, going from biotech into high tech, going

Matt Stagliano:

from high tech to the bar industry, the bar industry, to

Matt Stagliano:

photography, and on and on and on. So, and then within

Matt Stagliano:

photography, I segment that into commercial work. And now

Matt Stagliano:

portraiture, I'm expecting that in about two years, I'll get fed

Matt Stagliano:

up with it. And all those bridges that I burn are going to

Matt Stagliano:

light my way forward. So I think, yeah, this is something

Matt Stagliano:

that I go through quite a bit. And it's only until recently,

Matt Stagliano:

probably in the past year that I've started to notice those

Matt Stagliano:

behavior patterns that forced me to take a hard look at why I'm

Matt Stagliano:

doing it and dig a little bit deeper. Why do I feel this need

Matt Stagliano:

to self sabotage? Why do I feel the need for reinvention, rather

Matt Stagliano:

than just setting some new goals and building upon it, rather

Matt Stagliano:

than starting from scratch every time? So yeah, this this, it's

Matt Stagliano:

really close to 100%.

Nicole York:

Becca, what about you? Have you experienced

Nicole York:

anything along these lines as well?

Bekka Bjorke:

Yeah, and this is kind of interesting thing about

Bekka Bjorke:

cuz I've definitely gone through various iterations of myself.

Bekka Bjorke:

And maybe I've been lying to myself, and like telling myself

Bekka Bjorke:

it was a type of adaptability. When really, it was some kind of

Bekka Bjorke:

form of self sabotage. I don't know, that's a crisis to have at

Bekka Bjorke:

6am.

Nicole York:

It's, it's definitely something to think

Nicole York:

about, right? I mean, I. So the way that this, this idea kind of

Nicole York:

manifests in my life is that I, if you've never heard the term,

Nicole York:

multi potential light before, it's a word that kind of

Nicole York:

describes those of us who are passionate about many things,

Nicole York:

and we have skills in many areas, and we never seem to be

Nicole York:

able to cut everything off to be able to focus on one of them

Nicole York:

feels like chopping off limbs. And so it makes our focus spread

Nicole York:

out over many things, which makes it really hard to get

Nicole York:

ahead. Because you don't have the same amount of energy to put

Nicole York:

into the area that other folks do. Who can focus on just their,

Nicole York:

you know, their, their portrait business, or, you know, their

Nicole York:

novel writing, or whatever it is, I'm like, trying to write

Nicole York:

novels and trying to write books and, you know, trying to teach

Nicole York:

and have the artists Forge and do my photography, and all that

Nicole York:

kind of stuff, across many areas. So it becomes a little

Nicole York:

bit of a problem. But the biggest part I've noticed that

Nicole York:

falls in line with what cat is describing is that once I start

Nicole York:

to hit milestones within an area that tell me, I'm getting close

Nicole York:

to mastery, I start to get disinterested, and I'm like, Oh,

Nicole York:

how about this new thing, I will learn how to make armor out of

Nicole York:

foam, or start painting with oils or I will start doing hand

Nicole York:

embroidery or sewing costumes or whatever it is all of the sudden

Nicole York:

now. I find that I'm off looking for the next high which I think

Nicole York:

there must be something for me in that process of getting those

Nicole York:

advances and skill I think I must be chasing those things

Nicole York:

because I'm I'm constantly moving into areas that I have

Nicole York:

not a lot of experience in and ignoring the thing that was

Nicole York:

getting me, you know, farther down the road all of a sudden,

Nicole York:

and I've never actually abandoned anything, I always

Nicole York:

come back to it. But of course now I'm gaining this passel of

Nicole York:

things with me that are just getting really heavy to carry

Nicole York:

around and I don't seem to be able to leave any of them

Nicole York:

behind. Whereas if I had if I had stuck with the one thing

Nicole York:

even having the other things is kind of satellite things I

Nicole York:

enjoyed but the one you know, direction I was pushing in and

Nicole York:

moving past those goals and into the next realm with Just jumping

Nicole York:

ship, I really wonder what the difference in my career would

Nicole York:

be. And like you, Becca, I'm now questioning myself on is this

Nicole York:

some aspect of my personality that that just manifests itself

Nicole York:

this way? Or am I actually sabotaging myself? And if I am,

Nicole York:

why, why am I doing it? So I'd love to hear cat like, you

Nicole York:

realize this about yourself? What do you do? I mean, do you

Nicole York:

have any ideas for how we? Is this something we can avoid? Is

Nicole York:

it something we can fix? Is it just like what happens? What's

Nicole York:

what happened?

Cat Ford-Coates:

You know, it's interesting when you talk about

Cat Ford-Coates:

like the the multiple interests and wanting to go and do the

Cat Ford-Coates:

things right. I remember in high school, when I went to a Magnet

Cat Ford-Coates:

High School, which was and it was magnet, because it was a

Cat Ford-Coates:

performing arts high school. So like people that were districted

Cat Ford-Coates:

for the school could go to the school for academics and

Cat Ford-Coates:

standards, high school experience, or you could

Cat Ford-Coates:

audition out of district to really focus on a particular

Cat Ford-Coates:

type of art. So for some people that was, you know, like 2d

Cat Ford-Coates:

artwork, for some people, that was music for some people that

Cat Ford-Coates:

was film, dance, theater, so on and so forth. And I was there on

Cat Ford-Coates:

music, and as a singer, but I also was involved in theater

Cat Ford-Coates:

troops. And I painted and I did all the things. And this bass

Cat Ford-Coates:

player that I was in class with looked at me and he was like,

Cat Ford-Coates:

What the fuck cat? Like, just pick one thing? Like, you don't,

Cat Ford-Coates:

you can't do all the things. And I just remember looking at him

Cat Ford-Coates:

being like, the fuck, I can't Why? Like, why do I have to pick

Cat Ford-Coates:

one thing? Because, you know, you have that, that interest and

Cat Ford-Coates:

that enthusiasm and that joy that comes through when you're,

Cat Ford-Coates:

when you're really into something. And you know, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

don't have to pick one thing out of a space of love. However,

Cat Ford-Coates:

professionally, like, you know, you can't ride two horses with

Cat Ford-Coates:

one ass kind of a situation, because it's splitting your

Cat Ford-Coates:

focus. And I realized that in that college darkroom class,

Cat Ford-Coates:

right when I was studying film in college, and being like, I

Cat Ford-Coates:

don't know how to make a business out of this. So I'm

Cat Ford-Coates:

just gonna do it for fun and whatever. And it would just turn

Cat Ford-Coates:

into a hobby. And then sound engineering didn't work. And

Cat Ford-Coates:

like all of the things. And so I noticed that I'm starting to

Cat Ford-Coates:

Phoenix things, when I'm intentionally making choices

Cat Ford-Coates:

that I know are not in my best interest for my current goal.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And that could be not necessarily in the form of

Cat Ford-Coates:

distraction with another thing that I like, right? It could be

Cat Ford-Coates:

in the form of, oh, well, I think I'm gonna drink tonight. I

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, I have like, 47 appointments tomorrow and six

Cat Ford-Coates:

photoshoots. And like, all the things, I think, yeah, whiskey

Cat Ford-Coates:

sounds like a good idea. Right? Because I know that I'm gonna be

Cat Ford-Coates:

like, Ah, fuck my life the next day. But then at the end of the

Cat Ford-Coates:

day, I'm gonna get through it and be like, see, cat, you're

Cat Ford-Coates:

fine. You got through it. Everybody had a great time you

Cat Ford-Coates:

accomplished all the things. But I know when I start making those

Cat Ford-Coates:

choices out of a distractions face, versus even a self care

Cat Ford-Coates:

distraction, right? Like can be, you know what, I really need to

Cat Ford-Coates:

go to bed. Because I don't want to deal with the work that's in

Cat Ford-Coates:

front of me. So it's that avoidant tendency. And then, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, that can definitely steamroll. Like, I think after

Cat Ford-Coates:

our call last night, I was up really late, working on an

Cat Ford-Coates:

editing job for a client, because I'd said I would do it

Cat Ford-Coates:

and because I didn't give myself enough time to do it. And I over

Cat Ford-Coates:

promised, and was like, no cat, do not go to bed and apologize

Cat Ford-Coates:

later, just do the thing. And that was in my best interest,

Cat Ford-Coates:

even though it was making up for the fact that I just put myself

Cat Ford-Coates:

in a shitty situation. Does that make

Nicole York:

sense? Yeah, and, um, you know, I'm just thinking

Nicole York:

about, like, how do we so once we've realized that we have this

Nicole York:

tendency to kind of burn everything down. You know, once

Nicole York:

we've reached that place is is that avoidable? I mean, is that

Nicole York:

something that we can start to build into ourselves and go

Nicole York:

okay, I recognize that I do this. How do I stop myself from

Nicole York:

doing it next time and it's cool that for you, some of that is

Nicole York:

starting to become you're realizing you're doing it to

Nicole York:

yourself. How do you think we How do you think we integrate

Nicole York:

This idea so that it doesn't become having to start. Um,

Cat Ford-Coates:

I think you have to recognize what your

Cat Ford-Coates:

tendencies are, you know, like you have either an anxious

Cat Ford-Coates:

personality type or an avoidant, right. So I mean, that's to

Cat Ford-Coates:

oversimplify, but for me, I'm avoidance. So I start to notice

Cat Ford-Coates:

myself doing those avoidance behaviors. And that's when a

Cat Ford-Coates:

flag goes up. And I'm like, oh, oh, what am I not looking at?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Right? And that's really the only way I can kind of rein

Cat Ford-Coates:

myself in, when I go on to that, like, burn my life to the ground

Cat Ford-Coates:

kind of space.

Nicole York:

Right? Yeah, that makes sense. So it sounds like

Nicole York:

the first step is just really noticing what your red flags

Nicole York:

are. Right? Like, what what starts to happen when you're

Nicole York:

moving on that road? Yeah, for sure. Okay, awesome. So once we

Nicole York:

start to notice what those red flags are, and I certainly I

Nicole York:

mean, I'm surprised how much I'm with you on how many of this

Nicole York:

stuff because I certainly will have those avoidant behaviors.

Nicole York:

But once we recognize that, I know for me and this is this has

Nicole York:

been true since I was relatively young. In fact, when I got a

Nicole York:

scholarship to theater school out of high school, my English

Nicole York:

and Drama teacher had written a recommendation to me, for me to

Nicole York:

the college I wanted to go to and one of the things that she

Nicole York:

said in the recommendation was, Nicole is a very frank person,

Nicole York:

if she doesn't like something, she won't do it. And I was

Nicole York:

really surprised that she included that in a

Nicole York:

recommendation. But I understand looking back that what she meant

Nicole York:

is Nicole's really passionate about this thing. And so that

Nicole York:

means she's going to be very devoted to it. But like to hear

Nicole York:

her say that and then to think of myself now, and the fact that

Nicole York:

once the the blushes off the rose, all of a sudden, it

Nicole York:

becomes much, much harder to stay in the game. past those

Nicole York:

initial games. I know I mentioned, you know, when I'm

Nicole York:

building those skills, you you reach those milestones, and

Nicole York:

you're like, hell yeah, I know, I'm awesome. And then you keep

Nicole York:

going, you're heading for the next milestone. But all of a

Nicole York:

sudden, when you get closer to mastery, or closer to, I don't

Nicole York:

want to say necessarily mastery, but when you get closer to being

Nicole York:

really conversant in the skill, those milestones get a lot

Nicole York:

farther apart. And all of a sudden, it doesn't seem like

Nicole York:

it's worth the effort to continue to trudge along to the

Nicole York:

next milestone. Do you have any tips for how we keep ourselves

Nicole York:

on the path like I've seen the red flag, I recognize that the

Nicole York:

behavior is is going to come up? Is this just a pure? I'm going

Nicole York:

to grit and will myself through it? Or are there any, like tips

Nicole York:

and tricks we can use to kind of stay in love with that part of

Nicole York:

the journey instead of just falling off the path and running

Nicole York:

off? Um,

Cat Ford-Coates:

I think the, at least for me, the fastest way

Cat Ford-Coates:

for me to get back on track is to a, remember not just the

Cat Ford-Coates:

goal, but the why and the emotion tied to it. Right? What

Cat Ford-Coates:

am I why did I make the goal in the first place? What's exciting

Cat Ford-Coates:

about that form? Where is that? That fervor coming from? What

Cat Ford-Coates:

will I experienced by achieving X, Y, or Z? And the fastest and

Cat Ford-Coates:

the sooner that I can get into that heart space, the easier it

Cat Ford-Coates:

is for me to get back on track and be like you know what? No,

Cat Ford-Coates:

set the boundary do the thing.

Nicole York:

That makes a lot of sense. I love hearing your puppy

Nicole York:

and like give me the Levin's pay attention to me.

Cat Ford-Coates:

She does this thing where when she can hear

Cat Ford-Coates:

other people whether it's a video call or clubhouse like she

Cat Ford-Coates:

knows if she bugs me enough, I'll just let her go do the

Cat Ford-Coates:

thing and play with a Frisbee outside.

Nicole York:

Like oh, lever.

Unknown:

Oh, for clever boot. Yeah,

Nicole York:

I think it's really interesting. You mentioned that

Nicole York:

and I'm drawing a lot of correlations between a

Nicole York:

conversation that we had a few weeks ago I mentioned how

Nicole York:

staying with a skill set in a big way or a discipline is kind

Nicole York:

of like marriage you have that initial the excitement of you

Nicole York:

know the romance and the butterflies in the stomach and

Nicole York:

you can't wait to do the thing and see the person and you know,

Nicole York:

there's there's so much initial joy and passion, excitement of

Nicole York:

exploration there. And then you're together for a little

Nicole York:

while and you you begin to kind of settle and pretty soon you

Nicole York:

become used to one another in those initial passions in that,

Nicole York:

you know, the physicality of the emotion, the butterflies in the

Nicole York:

stomach and the sweaty palms and all those things that make first

Nicole York:

love fun, start to kind of disappear because that's the

Nicole York:

nature of that's the nature of becoming familiar with something

Nicole York:

but another thing replaces it those. It's like going from a

Nicole York:

sapling to a full grown tree. You've got these deep roots in

Nicole York:

this calmness in the subtleness that is really Beautiful and

Nicole York:

fulfilling in its own way. But getting there can be really

Nicole York:

difficult prospect. And I love the idea of being rooted in your

Nicole York:

why, as a way to make sure that you don't abandon the project on

Nicole York:

the way. Which is, of course, why we spent all of that time

Nicole York:

asking ourselves, Well, what is our why and how do we get to it?

Nicole York:

And how deep do we have to dig before we find out? What route

Nicole York:

is deep enough that it's going to keep us here for this entire

Nicole York:

time instead of just you know, falling off the rails? And it

Nicole York:

might also be important to think about the fact that there are

Nicole York:

certainly times in our

Nicole York:

lives no. Oh, am I here?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Oh, I can hear you now.

Nicole York:

Okay. I've been having weird service inside my

Nicole York:

house. Yeah, and so there, I think are certainly times when

Nicole York:

we should burn everything down. Right? It's, it's time to move

Nicole York:

on. And many of us wouldn't be where we're at if we had not

Nicole York:

made those decisions. But then you, you had to wonder where

Nicole York:

would I be if I had like, if I had stayed or if I hadn't

Nicole York:

stopped? Or if I had pushed on past it? You know, where would I

Nicole York:

be? There's so many possibilities in my mind that

Nicole York:

becomes terrifying. Like, what would have happened if, if I

Nicole York:

forced myself to stay on the path? Am I giving up what my

Nicole York:

future would have been otherwise? Well, I mean, yeah,

Nicole York:

apparently.

Cat Ford-Coates:

I've often wondered about this thing.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Right, like, regrets are, are funny. One of my biggest Phoenix

Cat Ford-Coates:

sing moments was getting accepted into Juilliard, and

Cat Ford-Coates:

then deciding, no, I don't want to do that. I think I want to

Cat Ford-Coates:

drink. Oh, 800 and do a bunch of drugs and get married to this

Cat Ford-Coates:

dude, I know, I'm not gonna stay with forever. Yeah, I think I'll

Cat Ford-Coates:

do that. And now, you know, at 45. I'm like, what would have

Cat Ford-Coates:

happened? Had I actually gone to Juilliard? And done the thing,

Cat Ford-Coates:

right? And how different would my life be today? But I, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

know, very, very different. Very. Hey, guys, can

Matt Stagliano:

I jump in on this because I love this point.

Matt Stagliano:

And it was something I was thinking about on the drive

Matt Stagliano:

home. And I'd love to redirect that just a little bit. Because

Matt Stagliano:

I'm going to get a little bit woowoo, as you know, me. But

Matt Stagliano:

every moment of our life, leads us to exactly where we are,

Matt Stagliano:

right? And the conscious mind can say, well, what would happen

Matt Stagliano:

if I had done this? And what would happen? If I had stayed

Matt Stagliano:

with that guy, or stayed in that job or done that thing? Sure,

Matt Stagliano:

you can do that and look at it as negative. Or you can frame it

Matt Stagliano:

and say that was exactly what the universe or God or whatever

Matt Stagliano:

your guidance is, was the right thing for me because it avoided

Matt Stagliano:

a lot of pain down the road. Right? So I know that the self

Matt Stagliano:

sabotage thing can sound really negative. But it might be just

Matt Stagliano:

course correction from deeper parts of your subconscious

Matt Stagliano:

saying, I'm not supposed to do this, I am supposed to go down

Matt Stagliano:

here. And it manifests itself in maybe some, you know, some more

Matt Stagliano:

socially destructive behavior. But I think we really need to

Matt Stagliano:

look at it in a way that it's just constant course correction

Matt Stagliano:

to where we're supposed to be in life, rather than living with

Matt Stagliano:

regret and saying that that was a wrong choice, or I shouldn't

Matt Stagliano:

have done that. I think the Phoenix thing can be rebirth and

Matt Stagliano:

regrowth and you know, something extraordinarily positive, rather

Matt Stagliano:

than looking at it as burning something to the ground. And

Matt Stagliano:

it's just, it's the way that I'm starting to look at it. And it

Matt Stagliano:

just feels right to me to look at it that way. I'm not saying

Matt Stagliano:

it's right or wrong. It's just how I'm approaching it.

Nicole York:

I think that's a really, you know, I mean,

Nicole York:

clearly we kind of were touching on the same point there. And I

Nicole York:

think it's really interesting to think about, because maybe what

Nicole York:

we have had in the past, as examples of success have often

Nicole York:

been only a certain kind of success. And what I mean by that

Nicole York:

is, you know, when I think about without diving too deep, when I

Nicole York:

just think about what it would look like to be successful in my

Nicole York:

career, I imagine reaching the pinnacle of it and being known

Nicole York:

for what I do and having my services be desirable and having

Nicole York:

a long history in that career. And, you know, you you think

Nicole York:

about the folks who've been doing it for a long time, those

Nicole York:

people who you know, you know, their name, like, you know, we

Nicole York:

think of Annie and we think of all these photographers who have

Nicole York:

been in the game for years and they've kind of they've reached

Nicole York:

about As far as you get, you know, with, with photography,

Nicole York:

and what we see. And I believe that those are the examples that

Nicole York:

are often held up for us as this is what success looks like, and

Nicole York:

this is what we should desire. But we rarely ever hear stories

Nicole York:

of success that are, you know, I have done this thing and this

Nicole York:

thing, I did all of these things, I'm, I love my life, and

Nicole York:

I'm happy. I've had all of these amazing, very varied

Nicole York:

experiences. And I'm living the life that I want, I don't

Nicole York:

regret. Anytime I burn something down, I ended up exactly where I

Nicole York:

should be. And I think we don't have a lot of those stories

Nicole York:

because they don't fall very neatly within that hero's

Nicole York:

journey, right? Like they they're not linear, they don't

Nicole York:

have a neat conclusion where we can draw these interesting

Nicole York:

morals or whatever it, it's much more of a messy ride. But that

Nicole York:

doesn't necessarily mean that those aren't success stories,

Nicole York:

they just aren't as easy to tell stories about and maybe some of

Nicole York:

the feeling that something wrong is happening, is coming from not

Nicole York:

having stories like that to hold up as examples of success. If

Nicole York:

that makes any sense. I'm literally thinking out loud. So

Nicole York:

let me know if that sounds completely crazy. But maybe

Nicole York:

that's why when you initially mentioned this, this idea, cat.

Nicole York:

Maybe that's why my initial reaction was like, Oh, no

Nicole York:

failure. You know what I mean? Instead of maybe this is some,

Nicole York:

like you were mentioning that some kind of internal course

Nicole York:

correction, when we don't really have examples of that, or at

Nicole York:

least not many, where somebody says, hey, you know what success

Nicole York:

looks like? Like this. It's usually from the time I was

Nicole York:

little, I knew I wanted to be a biochemist. And so I checked on

Nicole York:

the road, and I had these difficulties to overcome, and I

Nicole York:

almost made it and then I failed. But I never gave up. And

Nicole York:

now I've reached the end, and everybody knows my name. That's

Nicole York:

what we see. Right? We don't see I started out as this but then

Nicole York:

that wasn't right. And I went did this, but that, and it was

Nicole York:

great while I was there, but I lost interest. And then I went

Nicole York:

into this. We rarely see that right as as the example. So I

Nicole York:

wonder if there's something too that I see that we've got some

Nicole York:

hands up too. And as we are at the halfway point, I'll start

Nicole York:

bringing up folks, but back, I noticed you unmuted. So I want

Nicole York:

to hear from you. Yeah.

Bekka Bjorke:

I mean, I mean, that kind of idea of what Matt

Bekka Bjorke:

was saying about rebirth is sort of where that initial crises was

Bekka Bjorke:

for me, right? Because I've definitely gone through a lot of

Bekka Bjorke:

strange changes through my life, and my life is nothing like I

Bekka Bjorke:

could have imagined when I was a child or a teenager. But I don't

Bekka Bjorke:

feel like that's necessarily a failure. Like cats, you know,

Bekka Bjorke:

early adulthood, story of, you know, not going to Juilliard,

Bekka Bjorke:

and going off to get drunk and bury some guy by basically did

Bekka Bjorke:

that same stupid shit. And through all those, you know,

Bekka Bjorke:

hopeful 17 year old 18 year old dreams out the goddamn window,

Bekka Bjorke:

to marry some guy. And that didn't work very well. You know,

Bekka Bjorke:

and I could very easily taken that as a failure. And in a lot

Bekka Bjorke:

of ways, it was me burning down everything that I had ever

Bekka Bjorke:

wanted to do in my life up until that point, because I did, I

Bekka Bjorke:

threw everything that I ever wanted away and every

Bekka Bjorke:

opportunity way to be with someone. And I didn't, it was a

Bekka Bjorke:

kind of rebirth, though, because then I came out of that. And I

Bekka Bjorke:

was in a really bad situation, I had no money at all, I had

Bekka Bjorke:

nowhere to live, I had two babies, and I was barely old

Bekka Bjorke:

enough to go buy myself a beer to cry into. And instead, I had

Bekka Bjorke:

to find solutions. So I did. And I found work and I developed a

Bekka Bjorke:

career and I fixed all my problems. And you know, turned

Bekka Bjorke:

myself into this big beautiful burning Phoenix without letting

Bekka Bjorke:

myself stay this pile of ash on the ground, if that makes sense.

Bekka Bjorke:

So like, it very could have, like parts of it. I think were

Bekka Bjorke:

maybe self sabotaging. You know, like being afraid of going out

Bekka Bjorke:

and doing things on my own or, you know, being afraid of being

Bekka Bjorke:

single or, you know, whatever it was, or even the fear of

Bekka Bjorke:

success, right? Like, you know, what if I had not pursued that

Bekka Bjorke:

particular relationship and gone off to take like an internship

Bekka Bjorke:

somewhere far away like 1000s of miles away from home, maybe I

Bekka Bjorke:

was afraid of that. But yeah, I mean, I just I don't know I just

Bekka Bjorke:

never really thought of it as all self sabotaging when

Bekka Bjorke:

everything did burn to a crisp. It's weird to think about

Nicole York:

it It's such an interesting topic. I'm really

Nicole York:

glad we get the chance to discuss it today, Melissa, I've

Nicole York:

been trying to bring you up, I see your hand up. I'm not sure

Nicole York:

why it's not letting me. But I have sent the invite. So if you

Nicole York:

want to come, please do. Oh, there we go, we got your Hi,

Melissa:

I, um, I think that sometimes, and not in every

Melissa:

case, every case is going to be so different. But I feel like

Melissa:

sometimes when we look back, and we see those choices that we

Melissa:

made to, and we could see them as self sabotage, there was

Melissa:

something going on, I found in in my life, at least in seeing

Melissa:

in a few other cases, that there was something not right about

Melissa:

that big decision I could have made or that big direction I was

Melissa:

about to take my life into, there was something that I just

Melissa:

that was at conflict with, either at the time, or because

Melissa:

of the direction I was going. And a lot of that I couldn't

Melissa:

quite digest, couldn't quite understand or, you know, resolve

Melissa:

within myself that something didn't feel right. And it was

Melissa:

more than just, you know, being afraid to take that leap. And it

Melissa:

may have been being afraid to take that leap, and that I

Melissa:

wasn't in a place where I was ready to go that direction yet.

Melissa:

So there's, I mean, there's so many different caveats. But a

Melissa:

lot of times, we just have that tension within us, that tells us

Melissa:

that something about where we're going is not right, like we're

Melissa:

excited. It seems it's our dreams, it's just for me, I

Melissa:

found that there was a direction I was going and I look back and

Melissa:

I'm and I realized that it wasn't the it wasn't going to be

Melissa:

the right thing for me at the time, I wasn't quite ready. Some

Melissa:

other things may have happened in that were unknown, but I, but

Melissa:

I also didn't handle it coming like bouncing back from that I

Melissa:

did do some of that self sabotage. Because I was

Melissa:

overwhelmed. And I didn't process that decision that I

Melissa:

just made to go in the opposite direction I was planning and was

Melissa:

feeling sorry for myself for quite a while, like, you know,

Melissa:

that'll throw you down into depression quite quickly. And

Melissa:

and when you haven't been able to process it and make new plans

Melissa:

or find a new way, or even takes you a little while to figure out

Melissa:

which way you're going to go from there. It's really

Melissa:

defeating, I guess, is the right word. But I feel like we can

Melissa:

often look back and give ourselves a little more credit

Melissa:

that there was something that wasn't quite right that we were

Melissa:

following our intuition and doing the best that we could for

Melissa:

our cells at the time. But unfortunately, we didn't. Or I

Melissa:

didn't handle the rest of that, following my intuition. And I

Melissa:

didn't realize that was doing that's what I was doing. Well,

Melissa:

and it took me longer, of course, to learn a lesson and

Melissa:

find the direction that I needed to go. But so my point was to

Melissa:

give yourselves a little more credit sometimes, even though

Melissa:

you

Unknown:

may not have DOMA.

Nicole York:

You know, Melissa, as you were, as you were

Nicole York:

speaking, you were making me think of something really

Nicole York:

interesting. And I'm just going to throw this out there before,

Nicole York:

we asked to hear what Wynne has to say. But I wonder how often

Nicole York:

this active Phoenix thing is actually us looking to fall back

Nicole York:

down into our level of comfort. And apparently, my level of

Nicole York:

comfort is often being the learner and and gaining the new

Nicole York:

skill and not as often standing in my power as a master of my

Nicole York:

skill set. What do I do once I'm there? What do I do then? I so I

Nicole York:

do wonder how often when we do, of course, like, like you said,

Nicole York:

you know, sometimes these decisions, and as Matt

Nicole York:

mentioned, sometimes these kind of unconscious decisions happen

Nicole York:

because we recognize at some level we're not doing the thing

Nicole York:

we're supposed to be doing right then or something is not right.

Nicole York:

But then I also wonder how often when it is not when it was not

Nicole York:

the right decision, or or when we had a true goal that we we

Nicole York:

really wanted to follow how often that does become an act of

Nicole York:

self sabotage where we are trying to get back to the level

Nicole York:

of our comfort drop back down to that place. So just a thought

Nicole York:

thought some to

Melissa:

maybe it's something that I mean, as mentors, you can

Melissa:

look back and see where that point was that you were able to

Melissa:

recognize whether it was I recognize that feeling that that

Melissa:

you were having that made you make a decision one way or the

Melissa:

other. I think that's a big thing and in like an artistic

Melissa:

kind of unformed career that we we tend to

Nicole York:

Yeah, very true. I mean, hindsight, hindsight

Nicole York:

definitely gives you a lot of insights there. When I would

Nicole York:

love to hear your thoughts

Win:

well As many of you know, I have been in this business for a

Win:

very long time. I am 73 years old, I am looking back on what I

Win:

consider to be a tremendously successful career and life. And

Win:

if you don't mind, I'll take you through some of it. I became a

Win:

photographer after watching the Antonioni movie blow up. That

Win:

looked like a wonderful lifestyle when I was a young

Win:

person in the 60s. And I said, I'd like to do that. And I moved

Win:

from the motorcycle business into the photography business

Win:

with no skills, and no photography skills, and no, and

Win:

no business skills. And I was lucky that I was able to stay

Win:

alive long enough to gain some of both of those. I was a snow

Win:

ski instructor. For much of my life from the time I was in my

Win:

early 20s, until I moved to Florida, every winter I would

Win:

spend on ski hills, being paid to teach people what I loved to

Win:

do. I became a college professor without a degree. They had to

Win:

let me teach I wrote the textbook. I enjoy photography in

Win:

all of its aspects. I have been a commercial photographer, a

Win:

portrait photographer, wedding photographer, a teacher of

Win:

photography. As I look back on my career, the most important

Win:

thing to me has been overfeed business allowed me to spend

Win:

time with my family when I wanted to. So I got to be the

Win:

dad that was a soccer coach who didn't know how to play soccer,

Win:

and tennis coach to my daughter and a softball coach to Mike

Win:

baseball coach to my kids, having raised up four wonderful

Win:

children, all of whom I'm proud of as adults. As I look back on

Win:

all of that, from here, I can't think of anything, I would have

Win:

changed. That would have made me feel more successful. I made an

Win:

early decision, I'm not going to go to New York and beat my head

Win:

against the fashion industry. It wasn't that exciting as far as

Win:

I'm concerned. And I didn't want to be that kind of photographer,

Win:

I wanted to be a photographer who could stay home and play

Win:

with his kids. And so that I am eternally grateful, I got to

Win:

make some pictures that made some other people happy. I got

Win:

to photograph my own family, I got to photograph my dad who's

Win:

been gone a while now. And my mom, and I have wonderful images

Win:

of them. And I owe this industry more than I can ever, ever repay

Win:

to be the incoming president of my photographic Association. I

Win:

am proud to be a teacher that has lots of students who are

Win:

successful in our business. And I couldn't think of anything I

Win:

could have done. That makes me that would make me more

Win:

successful in my own mind. And that's where your success has to

Win:

be. If you're happy with what you do, if you if what you do,

Win:

makes you happy in the doing of it, then you are successful far

Win:

beyond what most people ever achieve. I'm happy to say that

Win:

that's how I feel about it. And I'll shut up

Nicole York:

now. I'm grateful that we have you as an example,

Nicole York:

when and thank you so much for sharing that. It's definitely

Nicole York:

something to think about and something to carry forward into

Nicole York:

this conversation. We also have sissala and Skyler who joined us

Nicole York:

so sissala would love to hear what you have to say. And then

Nicole York:

Skylar

Sissela:

is an incredibly interesting subject. Because

Sissela:

it's not straightforward. There's so many nuances to this.

Sissela:

And I think that there is the top layers of it, which is we

Sissela:

change our lives because we don't feel right about the

Sissela:

direction that our life is heading for different reasons.

Sissela:

Personally, I have I've changed my life quite a few times. I

Sissela:

thought I was supposed to be an academic and instead I decided

Sissela:

to burn that life to the ground move from Copenhagen and move

Sissela:

across the pond to this country. So here I am, and photographer

Sissela:

and that's amazing. I think sometimes there's beauty in

Sissela:

burning things to the ground because as furred Phoenix you

Sissela:

can rise from the ashes and move towards your your true compass.

Sissela:

But there's also Microsoft And in an in a, in a day to day

Sissela:

thing like, oh, do I want to do personal branding now okay, then

Sissela:

I have to completely focus entirely on creating these

Sissela:

personal branding images, I need to focus entirely on marketing

Sissela:

and all these other different things. Because now on personal

Sissela:

branding photographer instead of just being like, Oh, I am also a

Sissela:

personal branding photographer. But in the process of saying we

Sissela:

are only something only a personal branding photographer,

Sissela:

only a boudoir photographer, we burn all the other opportunities

Sissela:

to the ground, and forget about the fact that everything can be

Sissela:

coexisting at the same time. I personally have a tendency to

Sissela:

burn things to the ground, not not in the direct sense of oh, I

Sissela:

don't want to do that more in the sense of I'm going to focus

Sissela:

entirely on this one thing. And then I'm going to forget

Sissela:

everything else in my life, because this is what I'm doing

Sissela:

now. And it's, I think it comes from a fear of success. Success

Sissela:

is this size that is a little unknown. I haven't tried it. So

Sissela:

I'm a little scared of it. But I do know what what failure means

Sissela:

and being in this one place and not really progressing. And

Sissela:

that's kind of safe. It's not good. It's kind of toxic to stay

Sissela:

there. But hey, at least I know what it is. So So there's so

Sissela:

many, there's so many aspects to it that is important to

Sissela:

consider. And I think as Cat very well said it's important

Sissela:

that we we bear in mind our red flags, we observe them, we watch

Sissela:

them we see when they pop up, and then we have a conversation

Sissela:

with ourselves. Why am I doing this? Is it because I don't love

Sissela:

where the direction my life is taking me? Okay, then we should

Sissela:

talk about that? Or is it because there's something in

Sissela:

your life that needs tweaking, and you're trying to avoid

Sissela:

conflict within yourself conflict within your career in

Sissela:

order for you to avoid it. I don't know if that made sense.

Sissela:

It's still it's not early morning, but I'm in late risers,

Sissela:

so my brain is not entirely functioning yet. Yeah.

Nicole York:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and you're right, you

Nicole York:

know, this is not a cut and dry thing to talk about, there's so

Nicole York:

many different influences that are that are going to make each

Nicole York:

individual experience of what it looks like to burn things down

Nicole York:

unique. And, you know, maybe paying attention to those red

Nicole York:

flags and being a little more present with ourselves. You

Nicole York:

know, like Cat said, she's able to see when those behaviors are

Nicole York:

the the red flag kind and not the, hey, I can tell something

Nicole York:

is wrong kind Right? Like there's there's a difference in

Nicole York:

the way that those feel. And so maybe the best thing we can do

Nicole York:

there is just learn to be really present and to recognize our our

Nicole York:

emotions and our instincts for what they are. And hopefully

Nicole York:

that'll give us a little bit more clarity so we can read

Nicole York:

those things before they become you know, decisions that we

Nicole York:

can't take back. So definitely something worth thinking about.

Nicole York:

I want to make sure we get to Skyler and then come back to cat

Nicole York:

so she can kind of wrap this up from what we've heard today and

Nicole York:

give some final thoughts in there. So Skyler, what?

Skyler:

Yeah, sissala I really like how you ask the question of

Skyler:

why am I doing this? Why am I trying to move past these red

Skyler:

flags? And I think sometimes we can reach a point where it might

Skyler:

seem like regret, but we keep moving forward. And as we're

Skyler:

continuing to move forward into another comfort zone. So that

Skyler:

way we can look back and see that it wasn't regret. It was

Skyler:

really just not where we were exactly where we want it to

Skyler:

land. And Nicole, I liked how you brought up the comfort zone

Skyler:

because moving past these points of regret, right, I think we

Skyler:

move more towards finding a new comfort zone. And once we do

Skyler:

arrive it's like Okay, what else needs to change so that way,

Skyler:

it's your point when I can spend more time with my family and

Skyler:

help other people create valuable memories and just

Skyler:

moving from one point to the next. Keeping that hint of

Skyler:

uncomfortable uncomfortability I guess. And I think there's a lot

Skyler:

of value in that. So,

Nicole York:

um Yeah, I think that's, that's a great point.

Unknown:

As you were,

Nicole York:

as you were speaking, and talking about what

Nicole York:

sissala had mentioned, it actually made me wonder how

Nicole York:

often we confuse regret with grief. And what I mean by that

Nicole York:

is, I think anytime we're forced to recreate our identity,

Nicole York:

whether that is through some unconscious decision we've made

Nicole York:

or through even the conscious decision to you know what, I'm

Nicole York:

going to ignore all of these things now and just focus on

Nicole York:

this one thing, like you said, cat, it's hard to ride two

Nicole York:

horses with one ass, I apparently am very good at it

Nicole York:

and must have really big. But I mean good at doing it, not like

Nicole York:

successful at it. But it makes me wonder how often when we step

Nicole York:

away from those things, what we're really feeling is not

Nicole York:

necessarily regret, but just the grief of saying goodbye to the

Nicole York:

new thing. And if it's easy to confuse, regret, and say, I

Nicole York:

shouldn't have done it with the grief of now I have to learn how

Nicole York:

to be something someone new to just a thought. But as we start

Nicole York:

to come to a close, we've had a lot of really fantastic

Nicole York:

observations on this idea of Phoenix same. And I would love

Nicole York:

to hear cat what you think of the conversation so far? What

Nicole York:

people have said, and if you have any final thoughts to leave

Nicole York:

everyone with as it relates to what's been a really, really

Nicole York:

fantastic talk.

Cat Ford-Coates:

Yeah, I love the way the conversations going

Cat Ford-Coates:

and the different perspectives around the topic, right? Like,

Cat Ford-Coates:

you know, Matt, noting the the soul correction, right, the

Cat Ford-Coates:

course correction from from your soul space. But one thing I

Cat Ford-Coates:

definitely wanted to touch on that we can certainly go down a

Cat Ford-Coates:

rabbit hole for next week. sissala mentioned that a lot of

Cat Ford-Coates:

times that these things occur because of a fear of success.

Cat Ford-Coates:

And I definitely agree with that on a really big scale. But one

Cat Ford-Coates:

of the things that I've asked myself when that that kind of

Cat Ford-Coates:

fear rears its head, is, you know, there's that, what's the

Cat Ford-Coates:

quote? What if I fall Oh, darling, but what if you fly?

Cat Ford-Coates:

Understanding that a fear of success is literally imposter

Cat Ford-Coates:

syndrome. Because what is there to fear in that success, but

Cat Ford-Coates:

totally ruining it, and going lottery style, and you know,

Cat Ford-Coates:

winning it big and then blowing it all, and then having

Cat Ford-Coates:

everybody else in the world? Witness you burning everything

Cat Ford-Coates:

to the ground? Because inevitably, that's what I'm

Cat Ford-Coates:

going to do anyway. Right? And it's that mindset that keeps us

Cat Ford-Coates:

it's that that limit that we've set for ourselves like, No, I

Cat Ford-Coates:

can't have it all. Because if I do, what if I lose it? Well, you

Cat Ford-Coates:

don't even have it yet. You don't even have it yet. So worry

Cat Ford-Coates:

about that bridge, when you're ready to burn it to the fucking

Cat Ford-Coates:

ground. In the meantime, go get the thing, go do the thing. Go

Cat Ford-Coates:

live the life. And that's that's why Phoenix thing is is such a

Cat Ford-Coates:

dangerous form of self sabotage. Because, you know, we're all

Cat Ford-Coates:

here we all have the same, the same grace, of being able to

Cat Ford-Coates:

live the lives that that we want to. And we're never going to do

Cat Ford-Coates:

that if we think that we don't deserve it in the first place.

Nicole York:

Oh, the fact that when you just said because

Nicole York:

that's inevitably what I'm going to do like the word inevitably,

Nicole York:

oh, man, hit me in the chest like, oh, yeah, like, a 20 ton

Nicole York:

mallet? Yeah, that's a big one. And, you know, it's interesting,

Nicole York:

I find that there's, there's two two things there. There's that

Nicole York:

imposter syndrome, that that fear of loss of the thing that

Nicole York:

you so desperately want? And then it made me realize that for

Nicole York:

me, there's certainly an aspect of it there. But then the other

Nicole York:

aspect is, once I get it now what and I think the reason is

Nicole York:

because I've experienced that feeling before. That led into

Nicole York:

the only actual serious depression I've had in my whole

Nicole York:

life where I couldn't eat and I lost weight and I felt really

Nicole York:

disconnected from The people and the things around me. And my

Nicole York:

husband had been gone for about two years, because of military

Nicole York:

things, living in different places doing training all of

Nicole York:

this stuff. And I was raising two boys, by myself. And we had

Nicole York:

just moved to a new place. And he had to leave again for

Nicole York:

training, and then again as a deployment, and during all of

Nicole York:

that time, my entire being was focused on when he comes back,

Nicole York:

when he comes back, when he comes back, everything seems to

Nicole York:

be, you know, this is what we'll do. And this is how things will

Nicole York:

change. And this is how it will feel. And he came back and it

Nicole York:

was amazing. And then I crashed and burned. The most I've ever

Nicole York:

crashed and burned. And now that I know what that feels like when

Nicole York:

you accomplish the thing that you really were looking for, we

Nicole York:

have to be aware that there's going to be some inevitable

Nicole York:

backlash, like now that you have done the thing. Your life cannot

Nicole York:

be centered around the thing anymore. You can't you can't

Nicole York:

keep going after what you already have. You have to

Nicole York:

reorient and ask yourself, what is the next thing? And I think I

Nicole York:

certainly have some fear in that area. What does it mean when I

Nicole York:

reach the next thing? Because I know how far that crash can pull

Nicole York:

me. So I think there's a weird dual existence there happening,

Nicole York:

at least for me, where there's certainly some of that fear of,

Nicole York:

well, what if you get it and then you lose it? And then also

Nicole York:

the fear of will but then what? Like what happens, then you get

Nicole York:

there, and now you have it. So it's over like that, that chase

Nicole York:

that hunger that drive that dream is good. It's done. Yay.

Nicole York:

That was five seconds of pleasure. Now what? Right? So

Nicole York:

there's, I think, certainly both sides of that, for me when I

Nicole York:

when I think about what happens there. And there may be some

Nicole York:

folks who have ended up in the same place.

Bekka Bjorke:

I wonder how many or how these moments of rebirth,

Bekka Bjorke:

whatever they may be, are kind of actually bringing us all

Bekka Bjorke:

closer to our deeper why's that we brought about up and I guess

Bekka Bjorke:

like Nicole, you always want to ask your artists during your

Bekka Bjorke:

interviews, you know, what is your why. And it tends to get a

Bekka Bjorke:

little bit deeper than just the I want to be a photographer, I

Bekka Bjorke:

want to be a civil tog refer I want to be a writer, whatever

Bekka Bjorke:

that is. And I feel like there's probably a very common thread

Bekka Bjorke:

for everyone throughout each of these types of rebirth. Like

Bekka Bjorke:

even, you know, cats example going from music and now finding

Bekka Bjorke:

herself as a photographer. I mean, there is a common thread

Bekka Bjorke:

there of some sort of artistic creativity, right? Or even for

Bekka Bjorke:

yourself, Nicole, like from photography to painting to

Bekka Bjorke:

storytelling and writing, like there is that common

Bekka Bjorke:

storytelling, fantastical, imaginative thread? So I'm

Bekka Bjorke:

curious if there is some sort of similarity there for everyone in

Bekka Bjorke:

you know, the various forms of being reborn?

Nicole York:

That's a really good question, if maybe every

Nicole York:

rebirth is pulling us a little bit closer to that. That that

Nicole York:

through line, right of being where we should be, is a really

Nicole York:

good question. It's such a super interesting topic and really,

Nicole York:

really engaging to think about often because there isn't

Nicole York:

necessarily a perfect or right answer to settle on. And I think

Nicole York:

this is where, you know, a lot of our discussion and a lot of

Nicole York:

what this group has been about, since the beginning is a lot of

Nicole York:

exploration and a lot of looking at ourselves and being present

Nicole York:

and, you know, recognizing our thoughts and our motivations.

Nicole York:

And so this is certainly one of those topics that forces you

Nicole York:

down that path. And maybe that's really the only absolute answer

Nicole York:

we have is you know, know thyself, right, the better the

Nicole York:

better we know, the more the decisions we make can represent

Nicole York:

who we really are, what we really want to be all of those

Nicole York:

things. So, super grateful to Kat for bringing up this topic.

Nicole York:

And it makes me really look forward to our discussions next

Nicole York:

week on some of these specific internal conflicts that we have

Nicole York:

things like, you know, fear and imposter syndrome and the

Nicole York:

different reasons we might hold ourselves back or push ourselves

Nicole York:

in the wrong direction or maybe potentially eventually the right

Nicole York:

direction. That's going to be a really fantastic conversation to

Nicole York:

have. So I would encourage everybody over the weekend, if

Nicole York:

you know you're going to be here next week, to to do a little bit

Nicole York:

of soul searching and think a little bit because I really

Nicole York:

truly believe that we all have important stories to tell And

Nicole York:

when we can tell them to each other, they may be the key that

Nicole York:

unlocks somebody else's journey, or story, or the bars that are

Nicole York:

holding them back from moving on to become the person that we

Nicole York:

want to be. And I've heard people say, I don't really think

Nicole York:

I have anything important to contribute, because maybe

Nicole York:

they've heard somebody else tell a similar story and thought,

Nicole York:

Well, you told it better than I could. So what is the point in

Nicole York:

saying anything? The point is that your experience of your own

Nicole York:

story, the way you would describe and explain it is

Nicole York:

absolutely 100% unique to you. And when somebody there's

Nicole York:

somebody out there who has been walking a similar path, and

Nicole York:

they're not going to be able to move on until they hear the

Nicole York:

story the way only you can tell it. So as we move through the

Nicole York:

weekend, and when we start to come back next week, really be

Nicole York:

thinking about what you could share, if you feel moved to

Nicole York:

share, because there's a really good chance that somebody here

Nicole York:

in the artist forge audience needs to hear what you have to

Nicole York:

say. And they may not even realize it, it may not be until

Nicole York:

they hear you say it, that they go, Oh my god, that is the thing

Nicole York:

that I have needed and been waiting for. So don't be afraid

Nicole York:

to tell your story, particularly as we talk about diving into our

Nicole York:

own internal conflicts next week. I hope if you're not part

Nicole York:

of the Facebook group, you'll grab the link up at the top

Nicole York:

there. Click on that as to join we will make sure we get you in

Nicole York:

there. That is where we can always continue to have these

Nicole York:

conversations, a lot of really fantastic information has been

Nicole York:

shared their links and resources that you have access to, as well

Nicole York:

as the live stream that we did last night where we talked about

Nicole York:

the conversation over this past week did some exercise and

Nicole York:

visual literacy as well as talked a little bit about growth

Nicole York:

mindset. So those are awesome things that you have access to.

Nicole York:

And hopefully we will see everybody brighten early Monday

Nicole York:

morning at 7am Mountain Standard Time. 6am for the West Coast 9am

Nicole York:

for the East Coast, and go have a fantastic weekend. Go make

Nicole York:

something amazing, and we will see everybody next week.

Matt Stagliano:

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

Matt Stagliano:

discussion moderated by all of us at the artist Forge. We hope

Matt Stagliano:

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

Matt Stagliano:

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

Matt Stagliano:

episodes, please join us each weekday on clubhouse or visit

Matt Stagliano:

the artists forged.com and go make something incredible

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge

About the Podcast

Morning Walk with The Artist's Forge
How to Critique Art
Learn how mindset, creativity, and visual literacy will help you think like an artist so you can create work you love and build a career that matters; bridging the gap between technique and art.

About your host

Profile picture for Nicole York

Nicole York